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Review JN130: The Finals II: "Toy Around"

Is this the first time where Dragon Tail actually forced switches? It didn’t happen at all when I watched XY and Sun & Moon earlier this year.
It is. At first, I attributed it to being used in one-on-one matches or defeating the opponent, but that eventually turned out not to be the explanation. Glad to see its secondary effect in action here.
 
This battle is pretty cool so far. Still getting Drake vibes what with Ash having already sent out his entire team and being on the lead. I really loved how all of Ash's Pokemon are getting to shine here: Sirfetch'd destroying the Psychic Terrain with Fury Cutter (which is also a neat callback to when Hawlucha did the same with X-Scissor on Trick Room against Valerie), Dracovish getting to show off... whatever the thing with its belly spikes was, and Dragonite finally getting to defeat an opponent after so long. I do gotta say that I'm quite surprised that Lucario went down so soon and without getting to face Charizard. I do like that, though, since it allows the gimmick-less Pokemon of Ash's team to shine and pick up the slack. Plus, Lucario already got his time to shine against Garchomp and did get to knock out Mr. Rime here. This also builds up even more tension for the battle going forward: two of Ash's gimmick users are already down, the entirety of his team has already taken damage, and Leon's Charizard hasn't even come out yet. It's gonna be one hell of an uphill climb.

Anyway, I admit that a big part of me wants Dragonite to defeat or at least tie with Leon's Rillaboom, but that would admittedly be pretty contrived, seeing how Rillaboom going from sweeping two thirds of a Champion's team to not getting a single straight win would be a stretch. Ah, well, Dragonite did get at least one KO already.
 
Just watched with subs. Really great battling episode, with everything on point. Animation was superb, and none of the victories and defeats felt forced... although I'm going to have to try and ignore Satoshi telling Lucario to use Reversal against a ghost-type. Speaking of Lucario, pity he got knocked out relatively early on although I can take solace in that the show didn't give him spiral eyes... I think I'd have hated seeing him like this.

LucarioSpiral.png


Man, Dorapult was a really tough Pokemon to take out, huh? For some reason (maybe it was because we'd seen it before or because it's a glass cannon in the games) I didn't think it would last that long but it managed to force Satoshi to cycle through 80% of his remaining party and knock out Mega Lucario into the bargain. Still not quite sure what was going on with Uonoragon there, suddenly gaining a form it hasn't got in the games then not getting to use it fully. Maybe the next episode will explain it better.

Something weird is definitely going on around the stadium, as Galar particles seem to be building up. I noticed them in the last episode when Gangar was Gigantamaxed, but they sparkled again during the Mega Evolution scene so they're definitely leading to something.

What I like is that the show is making it clear to the viewers that even though Satoshi is ahead on numbers he's got an uphill climb ahead of him since the rest of Dande's team is fresh while all the others have taken hits. It definitely felt to me that Satoshi is trailing behind right now. Really interested to see what happens next.

Also, very happy that Kairyu finally broke her losing streak!
 
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Anyway, I admit that a big part of me wants Dragonite to defeat or at least tie with Leon's Rillaboom, but that would admittedly be pretty contrived, seeing how Rillaboom going from sweeping two thirds of a Champion's team to not getting a single straight win would be a stretch. Ah, well, Dragonite did get at least one KO already.
Kinda funny that, if Rillaboom kept its previous moveset, all Dragonite would need to do is fly out of reach and pepper it with Hurricane and Draco Meteor. Longest range the monkey had was Drum Beating, and that wouldn’t help it much.
 
Kinda funny that, if Rillaboom kept its previous moveset, all Dragonite would need to do is fly out of reach and pepper it with Hurricane and Draco Meteor. Longest range the monkey had was Drum Beating, and that wouldn’t help it much.
To be fair, Drasna's Pokemon had a similar advantage against Dracovish and Sirfetch'd (especially the latter) and they still managed to lose (though that was honestly one Journeys Ash win that I can agree was Plot Armor-laden in his favor) so who knows, really.
 
Question as I won't have a chace to see the sub version for a bit. Two actually

1: Is it said in episode that Leon is using a victory by endurance strat to wear Ash's team out with the switching and grinding down or is that conjecture by the fans?

2: Some side material released a while back said that Leon had never lost more than two Pokemon in a match prior to this battle. Was that mentioned in episode anywhere after Dragapult went down?
 
Sirfetch'd using Fury Cutter to destroy the Psychic Terrain, courtesy of Hawlucha and Talonflame.

Mr. Rime was simply amazing. Although, this does show that Ash's Lucario isn't so strong as its been given credit for, considering it was fresh and Mr. Rime was not (Unless all of Leons Pokemon are more powerful than the aces of the champion, which makes Leon the rightful holder of the strongest champion in the world), which means its win against Cynthia's Garchomp needs to be put in another perspective (Especially considering the same Garchomp would have lost against Iris's Haxorus if it didn't go Mega).

Dragapult tactics with Dragon Tail was fun to watch. I don't think we have seen the last of Dracovish's new Primal Power (As i like to call it, since it seems to have awakened its Primal Instincts, it was a hunter after all).

Dragonite clearly being confused after being dragged into the battle due to Dragon Tail was also a funny sight, since you can assume it watched the battle between Dragapult, Lucario and Dragapult beforehand and as such didn't expect needing to fight with his trainer not calling him out of his ball.

I absolutely loved Team Rocket supporting Ash... which they always do when he is fighting a big one and you can also see they are super proud when Ash defeats one of Leons Pokemon.

Leon exposing that his strategy was to worn out Ash's team... either shows he is cocky or that he sees Ash as real threat. Either way... i feel like Leon is underestimating Ash's Pokemon stamina and willpower.
 
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Something weird is definitely going on around the stadium, as Galar particles seem to be building up. I noticed them in the last episode when Gangar was Gigantamaxed, but they sparkled again during the Mega Evolution scene so they're definitely leading to something.
I was wondering what those were until I saw a video pointing them out just before coming here for the day. Probably some buildup to the next episode and Eternatus.
1: Is it said in episode that Leon is using a victory by endurance strat to wear Ash's team out with the switching and grinding down or is that conjecture by the fans?
Yes. After Dragapult went down, Leon pointed out how Ash's remaining Pokémon had all taken damage.
2: Some side material released a while back said that Leon had never lost more than two Pokemon in a match prior to this battle. Was that mentioned in episode anywhere after Dragapult went down?
No.
 
:bulbaLove: The Best
  • Fun To Watch - really, very well animated, inventive, Leon showing his more tactical side albeit Dragapult's moveset and sturdiness underlines he is still competent also in this department
:bulbaWave: Good
  • Dragonite Winning - yep, long overdue and was satisfying to watch, swirling like meteor with Dragapult (Charizard definitely approves)
  • Sirfetch'd Performing - it is probably the most interesting of Ash's Pokémon to watch with his valiant nature and his sword and shield (pun intended). I am hoping he is one taking down Rillaboom.
  • Leon Trash-talking - I liked it, it maybe illustrated couple of things - Leon being intense and little bit of jerk, but also enjoying battle, taking it as challenge and being internally happy he has a little bit of upper-hand and respecting Ash in sort of twisted way (compare that with him apologising to Diantha after wiping floor with her) and it also makes stakes for Ash even greater
  • Finally Some Good Aerial Battle - it was quite some time we had those
  • Ash Switching - as I have pointed multiple times, it was a little bit weird how Ash managed to defeat Master 8 opponents without switching, now he finally extends his tactics
:confused: Bad
  • Ash Still Making Some Questionable Moves - Reversal against Dragapult? Well, we had seen this Dragapult taken out what was presumably Hyperbeam, but still...
  • Guy Responsible For Protective Shield at Stadium - obviously not doing his job, spectators being affected by Lucario's Aura and Dragonite's Hurricane
  • Lucario's Defeat Could Use More Cynthia's Exhaustion - OK, he suffered 2x Triple Axel (0,5x), 1x Thunderbolt (1x) and 2x Flamethrower (2x) - which one was unprotected, so roughly good deal of damage, however given how he was presented to be very sturdy (even when facing 2x effective fighting moves against Bea) I think for member of Ash's dream team he went down a little bit early, brings memories to Lycanroc against Kukui. I was not much of fan of him going against Charizard, not only from narrative perspective but there is also simply too much typing mismatch. But I was more expecting him to deal with Rillaboom. So mentioning he is still exhausted after that brawl against Garchomp would bring a little bit more of consistency and power-scaling I crave.
:bulbaFacepalm: Ugly
  • Worried About Cameos That Are Still To Come - this maybe primature, but however I am glad we saw Fighting Gang and Wikstrom, this episode did not deliver any companions or real rivals. I am starting to be very worried, that their involvement will be overly brief and very disproportional to Dawn. We will obviously see and climax is still about to happen, but I am fearing another missed opportunity and not enough emotional satisfaction.
 
OK, as I expected, here come the Ash-pull techniques. :sneaky: Breaking the ice to make the psychic energy from Psychic Terrain vanish into thin air... that must have been the dumbest moves I've seen in ages! :bulbaFacepalm:
Not only does it make no sense from a logical point of view (Non-material, psychic energy can't be "stored" inside or under a layer of ice like for example water in the Arctic Ocean) but it is also nonsense when you look at it from a game mechanics point of view (Psychic Terrain is applied to the battlefield itself and does not depend on another move. So, you can't just "destroy" that move by destroying the ice. What nonsense !) I couldn't help but be reminded of Sirfetch'd being magically able to "see" Garchomp's invisible Stealth Rocks in the Cynthia battle, another prime example of nonsense Ash-pull techniques.

As for the rest of the battle, at least that was quite ok.
However, let me repeat what I already said last week: Leon definitely isn't that impressive. He sure is a strong opponent and champion but judging from what we've seen from him in the finals so far, he clearly doesn't deserve all that exaggerated hype that he's gotten so far if you ask me! I'm getting the feeling his reputation is collapsing like a house of cards.

So, what was the best thing about this episode for me? Clearly the fact that DEM-Lucario got knocked out pretty early (Serves him right :LOL:)
 
OK, as I expected, here come the Ash-pull techniques. :sneaky: Breaking the ice to make the psychic energy from Psychic Terrain vanish into thin air... that must have been the dumbest moves I've seen in ages! :bulbaFacepalm:
Not only does it make no sense from a logical point of view (Non-material, psychic energy can't be "stored" inside or under a layer of ice like for example water in the Arctic Ocean) but it is also nonsense when you look at it from a game mechanics point of view (Psychic Terrain is applied to the battlefield itself and does not depend on another move. So, you can't just "destroy" that move by destroying the ice. What nonsense !) I couldn't help but be reminded of Sirfetch'd being magically able to "see" Garchomp's invisible Stealth Rocks in the Cynthia battle, another prime example of nonsense Ash-pull techniques.

As for the rest of the battle, at least that was quite ok.
However, let me repeat what I already said last week: Leon definitely isn't that impressive. He sure is a strong opponent and champion but judging from what we've seen from him in the finals so far, he clearly doesn't deserve all that exaggerated hype that he's gotten so far if you ask me! I'm getting the feeling his reputation is collapsing like a house of cards.

So, what was the best thing about this episode for me? Clearly the fact that DEM-Lucario got knocked out pretty early (Serves him right :LOL:)
Problem is that Lucario going down like this also proves Cynthia's Garchomp is weak compared to the majority of Leons mons.
 
Problem is that Lucario going down like this also proves Cynthia's Garchomp is weak compared to the majority of Leons mons.
Wouldn't say so. The writers have always been very inconsistent with power levels, even more so in the PWC recently.
Pokemon A defeating Pokemon B (I'm still convinced Lucario defeating Garchomp was nonsense and forced! Plus, Cynthia wasn't allowed to use Mega Evolution) and then losing to Pokemon C doesn't necessarily say anything about Pokemon B. As we're totally at the mercy of the writers, they can do whatever they want and don't have to care if it's consistent or not.

Look at Dragonite: It totally failed in the battle against Cynthia and now it saved the day by defeating Dragapult. What does that actually tell us about Dragonite? Basically nothing because there is no consistent development anymore if you ask me.
Another example: Lucario being heavily damaged by Mr. Rime's Triple Axel today didn't make any sense, either, given that an Ice-type move shouldn't do much damage against a Steel and Fighting-type like Lucario.
Well, I've already given up arguing about whether a move should be strong or not because in my eyes we've reached a point where most of that only depends on the writers' will
 
Ash Still Making Some Questionable Moves - Reversal against Dragapult? Well, we had seen this Dragapult taken out what was presumably Hyperbeam, but still...
It wasn't against Dragapult itself, but to counter Thunderbolt.
OK, as I expected, here come the Ash-pull techniques. :sneaky: Breaking the ice to make the psychic energy from Psychic Terrain vanish into thin air... that must have been the dumbest moves I've seen in ages! :bulbaFacepalm:
It's pretty much the same as what Ash did with Valerie back in XY. It a very Ash-like strategy.
 
Problem is that Lucario going down like this also proves Cynthia's Garchomp is weak compared to the majority of Leons mons.
Are we just pretending that Garchomp was definitely not fresh going up against Mega Lucario and didn’t take significant damage from Sir Fetched ?

See this is why attempting to “power scale” Pokémon will always be dumb because these aren’t 1v1 matches where opponents are at a constantly even playing field, they’re a team effort with multiple factors that decide a victory or defeat
 
Honestly, I loved this episode! Honestly, it might be one of the best part battle episodes (maybe second or equal to Cynthia taking down Pikachu). They managed to keep this suspenseful atmosphere when borderline everything on the show gets spoiled. Dracovish made me wtf in a good way for once… and I’m quite frankly impressed they had enough self restraint to KO Lucario in the second episode itself. Tbh it had more of a reaction from me, much more than "What will Ash do without Pikachu?" Losing Lucario was the biggest curveball of the episode. Not to mention the way it was knocked down seems reminiscent of how brutally Guzma took down his opponents. Ash going to his fast paced thinking style also made me feel better, I was afraid they were borrowing too much from the games' turn by turn format.
 
The difference is that new moves are always recognized by someone. Here, no move name was given.
Because Unoragon is literally a newly discovered species so no one can identify a potential signature move?
Personally I'd have preferred Lucario to fight Libero Cinderace, but honestly it isn't like Lucario didn't have a good showing already. Honestly only matchup I want to see happen is a Rillaboom and Dragonite tie
Honestly that’s my only remorse on Lucario going down early, but now there’s a potential Sirfetch'd vs Cinderace on the cards!
Yep, it seems that way. The problem is in-universe Ash switches rarely. Not counting his unsuccesful switch of Dracovish against Cynthia, his most recent switch was against Drasna! He defeated Raihan, Steven and Cynthia without any switch, which is quite insane when you put it that way. So omitting Dragapult's Dragon Tail forced switch, it would be more reasonable for Leon to assume Ash will try to overcome things without it. Heck, he even left Pikachu against Cynthia's ground-typed Gastrodon.

So it maybe the case that Leon knew that Ash knew that Leon knew that Ash would not be switching. :LOL::cool: We clearly underestimated the complexity of Monarch's pre-game preparation.:sneaky:

Anyway, I was glad to see Ash switching and match is still open in believable way. :giggle:
I'm guessing Ash has learnt the value of switching from Cynthia casually taking out half his team thanks to clever switches.
Kinda funny that, if Rillaboom kept its previous moveset, all Dragonite would need to do is fly out of reach and pepper it with Hurricane and Draco Meteor. Longest range the monkey had was Drum Beating, and that wouldn’t help it much.
I guess they planned for that by establishing that Leon likes to change up his moves before every battle xD

1: Is it said in episode that Leon is using a victory by endurance strat to wear Ash's team out with the switching and grinding down or is that conjecture by the fans?
Leon said that flat out in the subs.

2: Some side material released a while back said that Leon had never lost more than two Pokemon in a match prior to this battle. Was that mentioned in episode anywhere after Dragapult went down?
Nope.

Non-material, psychic energy can't be "stored" inside or under a layer of ice like for example water in the Arctic Ocean)
Since "psychic energy" doesn’t actually exist we don’t know the rules for dealing with it.
also nonsense when you look at it from a game mechanics point of view

Psychic Terrain is applied to the battlefield itself and does not depend on another move. So, you can't just "destroy" that move by destroying the ice
There are clearly moves that interact with terrains. The anime has established clever manipulation of the battlefield using moves is always on the card. Since OS.
Pokemon A defeating Pokemon B (I'm still convinced Lucario defeating Garchomp was nonsense and forced! Plus, Cynthia wasn't allowed to use Mega Evolution) and then losing to Pokemon C doesn't necessarily say anything about Pokemon B.
For someone who likes to talk about game mechanics you surely do seem to like to ignore that literally the ONLY chance Cynthia would have against a full health Mega Lucario with a Togekiss and a Garchomp with anywhere near 50% health thanks to Meteor Assault would be to Dynamax Togekiss and use the added bulk to endure moves while hitting Lucario with Max Airstream (which is exactly what she did!) . One steel move and Garchomp is toast. It was a good character moment that shows that Cynthia doesn’t play into generic cliches (boost your strongest even if it’s not favourable) and shows that she knows how to use other Pokémon to her advantage and not just steamroll everything with Garchomp. But of course it goes against your narrative because Cynthia badass garchomp no ko everything.
 
Are we just pretending that Garchomp was definitely not fresh going up against Mega Lucario and didn’t take significant damage from Sir Fetched ?

See this is why attempting to “power scale” Pokémon will always be dumb because these aren’t 1v1 matches where opponents are at a constantly even playing field, they’re a team effort with multiple factors that decide a victory or defeat

Just like Lucario wasn't fresh, so it was basically a 1v1 match-up (With Garchomp having rested due to other mons taking the field, while Lucario needed to both G-Max Togekiss and Garchomp back-to-back, which isn't in favor of Garchomp either).
 
Breaking the ice to make the psychic energy from Psychic Terrain vanish into thin air... that must have been the dumbest moves I've seen in ages! :bulbaFacepalm:
Not only does it make no sense from a logical point of view (Non-material, psychic energy can't be "stored" inside or under a layer of ice like for example water in the Arctic Ocean) but it is also nonsense when you look at it from a game mechanics point of view (Psychic Terrain is applied to the battlefield itself and does not depend on another move. So, you can't just "destroy" that move by destroying the ice. What nonsense !)
My interpretation of that was Sirfetch’d pumping the field full of bug type energy (however you wanna call it) to cancel out the psychic one. Makes sense that the SE attack could disrupt it.

See, the problem with your “ash-pull” complaints is that I hardly think you’d be rolling your eyes if Cynthia did any of it.
 
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