Speculation General Remake Discussion

[Bolt Strike]

Just imagine what Johto would look like in the Scarlet and Violet style. It would be amazing, and I'm even thinking that Terastal will be in it, with Whitney changing her type specialty to Fairy but keeping her infamous Miltank (with it Terastalizing into a Fairy-type).

Ehh, they haven't seemed to care about the region gimmick lately, especially with BDSP. I don't think Johto will let you Terastalize. So I don't think Whitney will switch to Fairy, they'll probably just keep the same roster and type specialty as GSCHGSS and not care that Clefairy is Fairy now. I would like to see Goldenrod gym switch to Fairy, but I feel like that's more likely to happen in a Johto sequel with a new gym leader (possibly a former gym trainer of Whitney's) that takes over the gym while Whitney remains a Normal specialist. Johto's selection of Fairies is actually sneaky good and would make for an interesting gym battle, you don't even need to throw in any National Dex Fairies from newer gens. I would put the Goldenrod gym maybe 4th or 5th and have the gym leader use Clefairy, Azumarill, and then Granbull as a main (and if there's room for a 4th Pokemon, give her Togetic too).

 

[DigitalGen6]

I don't think Johto will let you Terastalize. So I don't think Whitney will switch to Fairy, they'll probably just keep the same roster and type specialty as GSCHGSS and not care that Clefairy is Fairy now.

If that happens, that’ll be sad to watch.

I would like to see Goldenrod gym switch to Fairy, but I feel like that's more likely to happen in a Johto sequel with a new gym leader (possibly a former gym trainer of Whitney's) that takes over the gym while Whitney remains a Normal specialist.

That works better. Idea: what if in the Johto sequel, Lyra becomes the new Fairy Leader replaces Whitney, while Ethan works at the Day Care?

Johto's selection of Fairies is actually sneaky good and would make for an interesting gym battle, you don't even need to throw in any National Dex Fairies from newer gens.

That makes sense. We have Igglybuff line, Cleffa line, Togepi line, Snubbull line, Mr. Mime and the Marill line, and Miltank

I would put the Goldenrod gym maybe 4th or 5th and have the gym leader use Clefairy, Azumarill, and then Granbull as a main (and if there's room for a 4th Pokemon, give her Togetic too).

Probably the 5th. But, from what I know, the 5th Gym Leader of every region (except Alola, for an obvious reason, and Galar since Allister and Bea have four) has three Pokémon. If she has four Pokémon, it would have to be the 6th Gym.

 

[Bolt Strike]

That works better. Idea: what if in the Johto sequel, Lyra becomes the new Fairy Leader replaces Whitney, while Ethan works at the Day Care?

Doubtful that old protagonists take those kinds of roles. If they show up at all, they'll be major boss battles somewhere in the game (Red was the final boss of Kanto in GSCHGSS, arguably the entire game depending on whether or not you count Kanto as post game or GSCHGSS Part 2), and Hilbert/Hilda were planned to be PWT battles in BW2. If Ethan/Lyra show up, it'll probably be something similar.

As for a potential Fairy gym leader it would probably be a completely new character. They'd want their name and design to be unique to fit the new Fairy theme, so it would probably be someone we never encountered in GSCHGSS that will be stated in lore to be a previous Goldenrod gym trainer.

That makes sense. We have Igglybuff line, Cleffa line, Togepi line, Snubbull line, Mr. Mime and the Marill line, and Miltank

You included Miltank by accident, but as for the rest yeah, that would certainly be sufficient variety for a gym, I don't think you necessarily need new Fairies to pad this out (it'd certainly be great to have more Fairies, it'd be great to have any kind of new Pokemon, but Johto is not lacking in quantity or quality for Fairies).

 

[DigitalGen6]

Doubtful that old protagonists take those kinds of roles. If they show up at all, they'll be major boss battles somewhere in the game (Red was the final boss of Kanto in GSCHGSS, arguably the entire game depending on whether or not you count Kanto as post game or GSCHGSS Part 2), and Hilbert/Hilda were planned to be PWT battles in BW2. If Ethan/Lyra show up, it'll probably be something similar.

As for a potential Fairy gym leader it would probably be a completely new character. They'd want their name and design to be unique to fit the new Fairy theme, so it would probably be someone we never encountered in GSCHGSS that will be stated in lore to be a previous Goldenrod gym trainer.

Now that I think about it, that’d be fun. I don’t think Hilbert/Hilda were in B2W2 unless you’d count battling a BW player in a wireless or online battle. The concept of Ethan/Lyra being the final boss would be interesting.

Yeah, they’d probably name him/her something to do with glitter or gems or whatever /s
Idk lol

You included Miltank by accident, but as for the rest yeah, that would certainly be sufficient variety for a gym, I don't think you necessarily need new Fairies to pad this out (it'd certainly be great to have more Fairies, it'd be great to have any kind of new Pokemon, but Johto is not lacking in quantity or quality for Fairies).

That’s true.

 

[Vengeful Ghost]

I don’t think Hilbert/Hilda were in B2W2

They were but got dummied out relatively late in production. Their dialogue is still in the game’s code. Yes, they got dialogue

 

[Bolt Strike]

I don’t think Hilbert/Hilda were in B2W2 unless you’d count battling a BW player in a wireless or online battle.

They're not. They were planned to appear but were cut. Regardless, it shows where Game Freak's head is at when it comes to older protagonists reappearing. They're not just going to throw them into a random gym battle or facility.

 

[DigitalGen6]

They're not. They were planned to appear but were cut. Regardless, it shows where Game Freak's head is at when it comes to older protagonists reappearing. They're not just going to throw them into a random gym battle or facility.

I know lol (but like the only time they WOULD appear is if Person 1 plays B2W2 and Person 2 plays BW and they both battle each other lol)
Yeah, Game Freak’s being mean and not letting us see Hilbert and Hilda again which is sad
At least we got to see Red again in SM and we got to see Red and Green (I know that she and Leaf are technically separate characters but I’d headcanon Green and Leaf as counterparts) in LGPE

 

[GoldenHo-Oh]

I legitimately wonder if the B/W sequels will be more like ORAS than BDSP. You'd think that they'd be like the former because of all the backlash that the Sinnoh remakes received for being so similar to to the originals but this is Nintendo/Game Freak we're talking about so they might just dig in their heels and do whatever they want.

 

[RileyXY1]

I legitimately wonder if the B/W sequels will be more like ORAS than BDSP. You'd think that they'd be like the former because of all the backlash that the Sinnoh remakes received for being so similar to to the originals but this is Nintendo/Game Freak we're talking about so they might just dig in their heels and do whatever they want.

Who knows. We're probably not gonna see those until 2027.

 

[DigitalGen6]

I legitimately wonder if the B/W sequels will be more like ORAS than BDSP.

If they are, I sure hope so, because tbh, aside from HGSS, I think ORAS are the best remakes ever (this is probably my Hoenn bias)

You'd think that they'd be like the former because of all the backlash that the Sinnoh remakes received for being so similar to to the originals but this is Nintendo/Game Freak we're talking about so they might just dig in their heels and do whatever they want.

Yeah, and hopefully they’d learn their lesson not to hand off BDSP to ILCA (the trailer showed the players and others weren’t gonna look chibi, but then ILCA turned them chibi, which is just sad in my opinion), but I guess they had to since they’d been so busy with Legends Arceus

 

[Bolt Strike]

I legitimately wonder if the B/W sequels will be more like ORAS than BDSP. You'd think that they'd be like the former because of all the backlash that the Sinnoh remakes received for being so similar to to the originals but this is Nintendo/Game Freak we're talking about so they might just dig in their heels and do whatever they want.

Unfortunately Game Freak tends to lean more towards the "dig in their heels" side of things and don't really listen to fan criticism that well. I don't think they'll change anything despite the complaints and still go BDSP style. I just hope there's a much bolder companion game like LA alongside it.

If they are, I sure hope so, because tbh, aside from HGSS, I think ORAS are the best remakes ever (this is probably my Hoenn bias)

Yeah, and hopefully they’d learn their lesson not to hand off BDSP to ILCA (the trailer showed the players and others weren’t gonna look chibi, but then ILCA turned them chibi, which is just sad in my opinion), but I guess they had to since they’d been so busy with Legends Arceus

I'm not convinced that ILCA has much if anything to do with why BDSP looks so samey. I think it's Masuda, or possibly even someone further up the totem pole like Ishihara who wants the remakes to be samey. As much as ORAS did new, it also had some things that were samey and like BDSP, it largely ignored third version content. ILCA had minimal experience with game development and mainly assisted other companies in game development so I'm not sure they were given much control over how it was designed or what content it had, maybe they didn't even have control over the chibi artstyle. Masuda probably dictated how he wanted BDSP to be made, so blaming ILCA is scapegoating. I think the problems are higher up.

 

[DigitalGen6]

I'm not convinced that ILCA has much if anything to do with why BDSP looks so samey. I think it's Masuda, or possibly even someone further up the totem pole like Ishihara who wants the remakes to be samey.

Yeah, you may be right.

As much as ORAS did new, it also had some things that were samey and like BDSP, it largely ignored third version content.

Which is why I wanted Delta Emerald to be a thing for a while lol

ILCA had minimal experience with game development and mainly assisted other companies in game development so I'm not sure they were given much control over how it was designed or what content it had, maybe they didn't even have control over the chibi artstyle.

Probably.

Masuda probably dictated how he wanted BDSP to be made, so blaming ILCA is scapegoating. I think the problems are higher up.

Hmm… Now that I think about it, yeah. But how higher up?

 

[Bolt Strike]

Which is why I wanted Delta Emerald to be a thing for a while lol

DeltaEmerald was never going to be a thing. They never bothered with a WaterBlue or a MindCrystal (or whatever they would call them), why would they with DeltaEmerald? Third versions of remakes have never been a thing and it doesn't make much sense for them to be a thing, the more sensible thing to do would be to fold the third version content into the remake pair as HGSS did. Once ORAS released without the Emerald content the ship had sailed. Now for BDSP, you could make the argument for Platinum DLC, but they were so quick to move on to SV that they clearly had no intention of significant DLC for BDSP or LA (which definitely seems to have been a mistake with how horribly buggy and unpolished SV was), but up until that point they pretty much had to get it in at launch or not at all and sadly, aside from HGSS they seem to have chosen the latter. They just don't seem to consider the third version content important.

 

[DigitalGen6]

DeltaEmerald was never going to be a thing. They never bothered with a WaterBlue or a MindCrystal (or whatever they would call them), why would they with DeltaEmerald?

No, I wanted DeltaEmerald to be a thing in 2017 or 2018, that’s what I meant.
WaterBlue? Seen that name before.
MindCrystal? Nope, never heard of it lol.

Third versions of remakes have never been a thing and it doesn't make much sense for them to be a thing, the more sensible thing to do would be to fold the third version content into the remake pair as HGSS did. Once ORAS released without the Emerald content the ship had sailed.

Yep. No Battle Frontier, just Battle Chatelaines (I have no problem with these, I just like Frontier Brains better lol)

Now for BDSP, you could make the argument for Platinum DLC, but they were so quick to move on to SV that they clearly had no intention of significant DLC for BDSP or LA (which definitely seems to have been a mistake with how horribly buggy and unpolished SV was), but up until that point they pretty much had to get it in at launch or not at all and sadly, aside from HGSS they seem to have chosen the latter. They just don't seem to consider the third version content important.

Which is sad.

 

[Bolt Strike]

No, I wanted DeltaEmerald to be a thing in 2017 or 2018, that’s what I meant.

And why would they do that? They already had their Hoenn remake, why make another one just to include missing content? Again, it would've been better just to include this content in ORAS, not create a separate game for it a few years later. No offense, but this kind of expectation seems more like it stems from desperation rather than business logic. I understand and sympathize with the desire to have it, but that was always kind of a long shot.

WaterBlue? Seen that name before.
MindCrystal? Nope, never heard of it lol.

That's the point, they never existed in any official capacity. We never got a Blue remake or a Crystal remake, so why would we get a separate Emerald remake?

 

[Vengeful Ghost]

I’m more inclined to believe Delta Emerald was a protective copyright rather than a serious project. Everything points to that.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I’m more inclined to believe Delta Emerald was a protective copyright rather than a serious project. Everything points to that.

Oh right, I forgot the name Delta Emerald was copyrighted. Yeah, I think they just didn't want fan games named Delta Emerald that would confuse players into believing they were official games, I don't think there was every any intention to actually make Delta Emerald.

 

[Norzan]

You'd think that they'd be like the former because of all the backlash that the Sinnoh remakes received for being so similar to to the originals

They were too similar to the originals in the worst ways like the bad pokedex, and late gym leaders and E4 members having pokemon that had nothing to do with their type speciality. They didn't copy the actual level curve the originals had, they gimped the contests and secret bases (which for the latter were already gimped from Generation 3), forced the exp. share to always be on, also forced the affection mechanic to be based on happiness instead of a separate minigame like poke amie and pokemon camp.

The Generation 4 remakes didn't need to be remakes of Platinum, they just need to have all the stuff from Platinum outside of Giratina showing up at the end of the story. The Distortion World could have still shown up instead of Turnback Cave as well.

 

[Bolt Strike]

They were too similar to the originals in the worst ways like the bad pokedex, and late gym leaders and E4 members having pokemon that had nothing to do with their type speciality. They didn't copy the actual level curve the originals had, they gimped the contests and secret bases (which for the latter were already gimped from Generation 3), forced the exp. share to always be on, also forced the affection mechanic to be based on happiness instead of a separate minigame like poke amie and pokemon camp.

The Generation 4 remakes didn't need to be remakes of Platinum, they just need to have all the stuff from Platinum outside of Giratina showing up at the end of the story. The Distortion World could have still shown up instead of Turnback Cave as well.

Well, the bad Pokedex and the Gym/Elite 4 roster issues couldn't just be solved by shoving them into the post game, that needed to be part of the main game instead of the Pokemon just being squirreled away in Hideaways. But the storyline stuff would've been fine in post game.

 

[DigitalGen6]

And why would they do that? They already had their Hoenn remake, why make another one just to include missing content? Again, it would've been better just to include this content in ORAS, not create a separate game for it a few years later. No offense, but this kind of expectation seems more like it stems from desperation rather than business logic. I understand and sympathize with the desire to have it, but that was always kind of a long shot.

I’m aware. Tell that to my 2017/18 self who was desperate for more Pokémon games lol.
I know ORAS didn’t have the Emerald content. It makes me sad, but I still fully accept it.

That's the point, they never existed in any official capacity. We never got a Blue remake or a Crystal remake, so why would we get a separate Emerald remake?

I… have no idea-

They were too similar to the originals in the worst ways like the bad pokedex, and late gym leaders and E4 members having pokemon that had nothing to do with their type speciality. They didn't copy the actual level curve the originals had, they gimped the contests and secret bases (which for the latter were already gimped from Generation 3), forced the exp. share to always be on

I don’t like what they did to Secret Bases. I really wanted to do the same thing I did in AS and turn a Secret Base into a house (in case I didn’t go to Littleroot). But then after I learned about how the Secret Bases were handled in BDSP, I said “I am not doing that”.

also forced the affection mechanic to be based on happiness instead of a separate minigame like poke amie and pokemon camp.

And that’s another thing I dislike.

The Generation 4 remakes didn't need to be remakes of Platinum, they just need to have all the stuff from Platinum outside of Giratina showing up at the end of the story. The Distortion World could have still shown up instead of Turnback Cave as well.

I second this.

And don’t forget how they handled character customization.