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Which made you more upset; May losing to Dawn (Wallace Cup) or Dawn losing to Zoey (Grand Festival)?

Which was the bigger disappointment?

  • Dawn beating May

    Votes: 59 64.8%
  • Zoey beating Dawn at the GF

    Votes: 32 35.2%

  • Total voters
    91

Paulisthebest

"Ursaring, standby for battle!"
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I was highly upset to see May lose to Dawn. This was because they brought back the last female lead of Ash’s group only to lose to a rookie coordinator. I mean May has been in two Grand Festivals and ranked in the Top 8 and then the Top 4 along with earning 3 ribbons from Johto. Then she goes up against a coordinator with only one ribbon under her belt.

Not just that, but May grew on me as one of my favorite characters because of her “evolution.” She went from hating Pokemon to loving them and treating each one of her own like family. Now it seems that Dawn is about to take her leave from the series, and throughout her entire storyline, she never really gave me anything to like about her. At the most, it seems her time with the guys and being out on her own journey from under her mom’s thumb made her not to be so much as a mommy’s girl anymore. That was a good sign that she was “evolving” when she gave her mom back her ribbon. However, I’m afraid that’s the best thing I have to say about her.

The match was pretty good except a few things made me dislike it. For instance I was thinking that May should have had Glaceon freeze Piplup’s Whirlpool with Ice Beam and then smash it with Iron Tail to send a huge barrage of Ice Shards at Piplup and that would have made for a great appeal. Its Secret Power being just as strong as a Tackle attack was pretty sad as well. I was also disappointed that she would use an Ice type against Piplup to begin with, but given the fact that it had more experience made the loss that more painful.

If I am right Glaceon used 4 moves during the match; Mirror Coat/Ice Shard/Secret Power/Shadow Ball. The worst part was that at the end of the match May anticipated Dawn using a big attack, and Dawn decided to do just that. With Glaceon’s speed you would think May would have told it to dodge the attack from above and fire a barrage of Shadow Balls or Ice Shards. The kicker was Glaceon losing the match by less than a point. You would have thought May would have won because she would lose a few points for Whirlpool being beautiful and all, Glaceon deflecting the attack and taking damage would make her lose even more points, but Dawn should have lost a bit more since she was struck by her own attack.

I was so ticked when May lost it was like a blow to the back of the head for me. Sure it was a confidence booster for Dawn to get back up on her feet, but still to have May come back just for a defeat is heartbreaking. Then to have her lose by just a fraction of a point was really when it hurt the most. To think she had powerhouses like Venasaur or Blaziken (it was on a water field, but with its powerful jumping ability I don’t think it would have been a problem). Then again if she used one of them the match would have been over in the first 30 seconds.

Moving on to the GF, as soon as I heard that it was going to be at the same arena where the Wallace Cup was held I got a bad feeling. In the back on my mind, I figured that Dawn was not going to win. I was going off of the hunch of “lightning does not strike twice in the same spot” since she barely managed to win there before against May. Then I was thinking back to a few foreshadowing moments with Zoey. She mentioned after her and Dawn first fought and she won; Zoey mentioned that they would meet in the finals one day, and then when she won her fifth ribbon and was celebrating with Ash and friends along with “Miss Senior”, she mentions to Dawn “I’ll see you in the GF finals!”

From that moment I felt that the two were going to duke it out in the finals of the GF. In a sense, I was thinking that Dawn would win based on the fact that she never won before against Zoey. The only time she outdid her was at the Wallace Cup because she beat the coordinator that beat her (May). That final match was really exciting, but I wasn’t too thrilled with the anime breaking the rule on the Fake Out attack, it would have been acceptable if it had used Sucker Punch instead to knock Piplup off of its feet. I was not mad that she used Togekiss because I was thinking back to something Harley said to Drew/Ash/Brock when they discovered that he gave his Pokemon to a disguised Jesse in an attempt to keep May from the Kanto GF.

“It doesn’t matter who raises a Pokemon because a coordinator’s only job is to show off a Pokemon through appeals.” Meaning that it did not matter if Dawn raised Togekiss, her only purpose was to make sure that its qualities shined during a contest and she did a good job of it. The match was like a repeat of Zoey vs. Nando, I was upset that Nando lost because he had the better appeals similar to how Dawn’s one-upped Zoey’s in my opinion. She is like Drew and Solidad because she would take her opponent’s moves and uses them to make her own Pokemon shine. I was just amazed when her Glemeow used Iron Tail to catch Signal Beam and then Whirlpool.

I dislike how sometimes the judges can be inconsistent on the point board sometimes. Like when an attack misses sometimes they don’t mark it as a deduction like when Gallade’s first round of Psycho Cut missed the mark and then it tried a homing version of the attack. The final clash of Crimson Sky Attack/Peck and Thunderbolt/Psycho Cut was pretty intense. However, it was pretty awkward to me because if any of them took damage it was Togekiss and Piplup because they collided head on with the attack and Gallade was just caught in the shockwave while Glemeow was safely on the ground. I wish it was in English so I could have understood what exactly was going on at the time such as how the trainers acted when giving out commands. You can tell when they are overconfident and make mistakes because they think they have an upper hand.

Though if one watches Dawn’s mom throughout the match you could tell she had her doubts about Dawn winning. Like the first combo of Aura Sphere/Bubblebeam, Ash and Brock were impressed that she was using such a unique attack. However, Johanna was a bit concerned because she knew that Zoey was going to easily use it to her own advantage. This makes sense because she is a Top Coordinator along with the fact that she has a Glemeow as well. Then when Ash/Brock thinks Dawn’s about to gain a lead over Zoey you can see a look of concern on her face. Similar to Piccolo in DBZ, when Tien or someone thinks Goku (or whoever is fighting the villain) is going to win, you see Piccolo with a cold look on his face and his outcomes are usually correct. This holds true since he is an experience warrior, like Johanna is an experienced coordinator. Now, if you don’t like DB no harm intended it is just a very good example.

My final thoughts are that Dawn won with a fraction of a point against May, but lost to Zoey but only a couple of points. It really was a shame in the GF because Dawn and her rivals seemed to be near even with not one of the coordinators in a league of their own. Between all of them, it seemed that Nando and Ursula had the best and most unique appeals (Lopbunny as the dancer and Krientune as the musical conductor/the “eeveeloutions” in the appeals round along with the Sand Tomb/Scary Face combo during the match with Dawn. If I had to choose Zoey’s best appeal it would be the combo of the psychic wings on Leafeon. I hope the Sinnoh League match of Paul and Ash is not a downer considering the plot buildup and the epic let down to the fans by the way the GF was rushed.
 
Re: Which made you more upset; May losing to Dawn (Wallace Cup) or Dawn losing to Zoe

Neither really, I love all 3 girls.

Contests have nothing to do with experience, just ask May who won her first ribbon against Grace, who had 3 ribbons at the time.
 
Re: Which made you more upset; May losing to Dawn (Wallace Cup) or Dawn losing to Zoe

I'm going with Dawn losing to Zoey. I haven't seen Dawn win against Zoey once, and I thought that final contest battle between them was a good way to show how much Dawn's skills have improved.
 
Re: Which made you more upset; May losing to Dawn (Wallace Cup) or Dawn losing to Zoe

Neither really, I love all 3 girls.

Contests have nothing to do with experience, just ask May who won her first ribbon against Grace, who had 3 ribbons at the time.

Ditto.


Most of the time battles don't have anything to with experience.Ask any gym leader.
 
Re: Which made you more upset; May losing to Dawn (Wallace Cup) or Dawn losing to Zoe

May losing to Dawn.

Everyone on here probably already knows my hang up about Dawn.
 
Re: Which made you more upset; May losing to Dawn (Wallace Cup) or Dawn losing to Zoe

To be honest there is a really easy way that the writers can make up having Dawn beat May and that is with Dawn's departure episode should have May entering Sinnoh to compete in contests there and they have a contest battle. We'd also find out about the Johto Grand Festival here. May would beat Dawn here and inspire Dawn to go to Hoenn. That is the way I'd like to see it happen.
 
Re: Which made you more upset; May losing to Dawn (Wallace Cup) or Dawn losing to Zoe

I put Dawn winning against May. Not because I would prefer one over the other, but because it was such a BS win. Once Dawn entered the Wallace Cup, all of a sudden, she had skills she never had in any of her other contests. I was asking constantly how in the world did she get that skilled. She even won against a coordinator with far more experience than her. I know the writers can do anything for the sake of plot, and they may be half justified in this point. Dawn had lost two contests in a row. If she lost again, she probably wouldn't be able to pick herself up again. I guess this should've been our indication that many other unfair sacrifices in the name of plot would happen.
 
Re: Which made you more upset; May losing to Dawn (Wallace Cup) or Dawn losing to Zoe

I just said that. Read the entire post next time.
 
Re: Which made you more upset; May losing to Dawn (Wallace Cup) or Dawn losing to Zoe

Zoey beating Dawn. I was angry after finding that out. I hate it that the writers are sending Dawn off without defeating her primary rival. May got that priviledge, but Dawn didn't. Just when you think the writers' skills got better, they take a stupid move and mess up everything. :disgust:

As for May vs. Dawn. It wasn't about who's stronger because we all know Dawn would've won anyway :p, Dawn needed that ribbon because her storyline demanded it.
 
Re: Which made you more upset; May losing to Dawn (Wallace Cup) or Dawn losing to Zoe

May losing to Dawn. This was entirely plot-driven to the core. Despite May being a much more experienced coordinator, in the end she was defeated by a "newbie."
On the other hand, I saw Zoey's chances of beating Dawn in the Grand Festival 50-50. There's no way, given the circumstances of their relationship, that Dawn would be able to surpass Zoey this soon. If Dawn were to win a Ribbon Cup during her first Grand Festival, then what will end up as future development? It's to show that she has a long way to go, which I can't blame anybody for.
 
Re: Which made you more upset; May losing to Dawn (Wallace Cup) or Dawn losing to Zoe

Neither. They were both done because that's what the writers intended to do.
 
Re: Which made you more upset; May losing to Dawn (Wallace Cup) or Dawn losing to Zoe

If Dawn leaves without beating Zoey than yah, I'll be pretty ticked off.
I mean, every one should get to beat there rival before leaving the show.
Ash got to beat Gary.
May got to beat Drew.
Dawn should have beaten Zoey.
I know there trying to show there rivalry was that they weren't enemies, they liked each other and respected each other. But, Zoey would still have been fine with Dawn winning. It would have been Dawn's first win against Zoey too. If Dawn has too go, I think it should end with her battling Zoey and actually winning. I'd take that ending for Dawn and Zoey should say I'll see you at the next Grand Festival Dawn and win.
The Dawn V.S May thing was a bit annoying. I mean May was a bit more experinced than Dawn at that time. I let that go though cuz, May had a lot of easy wins in the begining.
 
Re: Which made you more upset; May losing to Dawn (Wallace Cup) or Dawn losing to Zoe

Well, the one difference with Dawn vs. Zoey is that it was easier to believe she could win by then. They even made it a point she was ever so close to winning. It was a more believable battle, even though she still lost. Yes, I know Dawn needed to win the Wallace Cup, but like I said, her skill came out of nowhere.
 
Re: Which made you more upset; May losing to Dawn (Wallace Cup) or Dawn losing to Zoe

Neither upset me really as I felt both were justifiable.

Once Dawn entered the Wallace Cup, all of a sudden, she had skills she never had in any of her other contests.

In Dawn's early storyline, it was never about skills, but more about confidence. In Dawn's first three contests (4 if you count the one in Movie 10) she was actually shown to have some skills, reaching the semis in Jubilife and Alamos, the finals in the unofficial contests and winning a ribbon against Kenny.

She showed skills right off the bat but lost confidence within herself, which led her to doubt herself. The Wallace Cup was about her regaining that confidence to let her skills speak for themselves, which they did. Yes May had more experience, but there's a reason she stopped travelling with Ash, there's a reason she couldn't beat Harley, Solidad and Drew, she always took more of a battle approach to contests, which isn't what contests are about, and was shown to be struggling with confidence herself. Plus as much as she improved, she started way behind what Dawn was when she started.

So really, at the beginning of the battle, I felt it could go either way and be completely believable and I didn't feel cheated by the result.

As for Dawn v Zoey, the result didn't particularily bother me as much as where they were. The finals ? I mean really ? In my opinion, Dawn should have beaten Zoey in the semis and gotten beaten by someone like Fantina/Johanna/Jasmine hell even Nando in the finals.

But to me, as soon as it was clear that it was in the final, I gave them 50-50 going in, didn't feel cheated when Zoey won.
 
Re: Which made you more upset; May losing to Dawn (Wallace Cup) or Dawn losing to Zoe

I just said that. Read the entire post next time.

My bad

As for the topic, neither bothered me at all. Since I was rooting for the eventual victors of the tournaments. I didn't want Dawn to win mainly because of Togekiss.
 
Re: Which made you more upset; May losing to Dawn (Wallace Cup) or Dawn losing to Zoe

Hmm...I never got the larger picture. I don't tend to rewatch eps. I know she always had skill, otherwise she wouldn't have won against Kenny. What I speak of is that I notice during the Wallace Cup that Dawn was pulling off more advanced tactics like making the opponent's moves work against them. I didn't question she knew about this, she had seen Zoey do it numerous times, it's just that I didn't recall Dawn herself doing it before. It showed she learned, but it was still bizarre to see it. I guess it was because my memory doesn't work well all the time. It was more important that Dawn got the ribbon, though. It was justifiable, but I just wondered where that skill came from. I wish I could say I'll pay closer attention, but I know I won't. I just don't like to watch the episodes over again.
 
Re: Which made you more upset; May losing to Dawn (Wallace Cup) or Dawn losing to Zoe

Agreed, neither bothered me.

However it would have been better if Dawn beat May NOW, especially after Dawn has all this contest experience and stronger Pokemon.

Dawn only had a single ribbon when she beat May, it was still near the beginning of her run, (even though we were 79 episodes into DP when it happened).

But the actual battle was fine, so I didn't care.
 
Re: Which made you more upset; May losing to Dawn (Wallace Cup) or Dawn losing to Zoe

Hmm...I never got the larger picture. I don't tend to rewatch eps. I know she always had skill, otherwise she wouldn't have won against Kenny. What I speak of is that I notice during the Wallace Cup that Dawn was pulling off more advanced tactics like making the opponent's moves work against them.

Come to think of it. I wanted a rematch against Kenny, considering the last time they battled Ambipom got killed by Prinplup.
 
Re: Which made you more upset; May losing to Dawn (Wallace Cup) or Dawn losing to Zoe

I'll have to say that May losing to Dawn was a surprise while Dawn losing the GF was not. The latter was more dissapointing to me since Dawn is leaving at the end of the DP saga (probably going to Hoenn, I bet) and she didn't get as much time to her as May, nor as good rivals (She won her last two ribbons to the same person, and then beat her again in the GF. That's cheap.)
 
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