Ice Types: The Underdogs Again?

[DoctorWhy]

There should be an ice Type version on Nuzzle, so it 100% Freezes stuff.

That would be a little OP, unless the accuracy was significantly lower. I'd say maybe 60% accuracy to match Hypnosis, or as low as 50% if it also does damage.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

That would be a little OP, unless the accuracy was significantly lower. I'd say maybe 60% accuracy to match Hypnosis, or as low as 50% if it also does damage.

Nuzzle has only 20 in power so an Ice version wouldn't be to OP. It can have the same low power that Nuzzle has.

 

[Tente]

Lol an Ice-type Nuzzle would be so broken.

I think that there should be more powerful Ice moves and even have a physical version of Ice Beam (without awful acc) and have it Ice Type exclusive.

Is that necessary? It makes sense for Icicle Crash etc to have shittier accuracy, and I can't imagine what a very accurate physical ice move would entail. And I'm not huge on "let's make an X version of Y move" arguments because that kinda neglects the 'logic' of how moves come about, I think. That, and it'd be a little bland if there were, say, 18 copies of the exact same move in different types; having each move be more or less unique-ish and more importantly make sense is ideal, I think. There's little need for move clones.

Personally, I think Ice should resist Ground, since Ground is a pretty to-tier Type, as well as Dragon, meaning Ice Types are better than popular Pokémon like Garchomp.

I agree Ice should resist Ground and Dragon, but more so because it makes sense

Also, get rid of Fairy's random Bug resistance and give it to Ice instead, as Bugs die during the winter.

Let Bug types live, their attacks are already resisted by six types

Fairy's resistance of Bug is most likely because fairies are associated with insects in some folklore; I guess it makes more sense for Fairy to resist Bug than for Bug to resist Fairy, or for either to be supereffective on the other, but balance wise it really is completely unnecessary to Bugs

Plus give Ice Types a 50% Sp. Def boost in Hail, which is something that should have happened a long time ago...

Possible idea; I think I like it

Offensively:
Make Ice super-effective against Rock.

Honestly, why? This doesn't make sense to me at all; you have an explanation?

Not only wise, but balance/game wise this is kinda really unnecessary. Everybody generally agrees Ice is already a strong offensive type (there's a reason so much carries Ice Beam as coverage) and Rock really struggles defensively, for the most part.

Defensively:
Make Ice resistant to Water.

I feel kinda "eh" about this. Water often melts ice or breaks it.

Make Ice resistant to Flying.

It's maybe weird Rock resists Flying and esp weird that Electric resists Flying, so I guess sure, although I think because I'm not used to it yet it feels weird, lol.

Make Ice normally affected by Rock.

I definitely see Rock cutting through Ice, though. I'd think Ground would be the most likely removed weakness, or even Steel.

It's movement is slower. That does not mean it's Speed stat is slower - which is better defined as a Pokemon's reaction time. Remember the Pokemon with an abysmal Speed that can fly around at mach speeds.

I'm like 95% sure Alolan Sandslash is gonna be slower and that's what they meant, lol.

However, I have an entirely adjusted type chart I would implement that includes making Rock normally affected by Water. So if I had my way, that combination would only trade a x4 weakness. It just wasn't worth mentioning since the thread is about Ice types alone.

Rocks do erode under water

 

[Blob]

Here's a pic of a rock that was erroded away by Ice in the South Poll.

 

[SirOni]

Nuzzle has only 20 in power so an Ice version wouldn't be to OP. It can have the same low power that Nuzzle has.

The base power isn't the problem. It's the guaranteed chance of freezing.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

The base power isn't the problem. It's the guaranteed chance of freezing.

The pokemon would shake it off and most ice types are frail. Some of them are outsped by the opponents.

 

[Zeta]

The problem is that Freeze is just too powerful. It's basically the "Death" spell from Final Fantasy. It is so effective the only way to balance the game around it is to make sure it never works, ever.

1) Change Ice to resist Water and Dragon
2) Hail raises the Defense of all Ice-type Pokemon on the field.
3) Add in a new status condition (Frostbite - deals damage every turn and damage dealt by special moves is halved). Save Frozen status condition for Freeze-Dry and Blizzard. Every other move that used to Freeze 10% of the time now Frostbites 10-30% of the time. Ice-type Pokemon cannot be Frozen or Frostbitten.

 

[Tsutsayosdi]

Honestly, why? This doesn't make sense to me at all; you have an explanation?

Not only wise, but balance/game wise this is kinda really unnecessary. Everybody generally agrees Ice is already a strong offensive type (there's a reason so much carries Ice Beam as coverage) and Rock really struggles defensively, for the most part.

I feel kinda "eh" about this. Water often melts ice or breaks it.

It's maybe weird Rock resists Flying and esp weird that Electric resists Flying, so I guess sure, although I think because I'm not used to it yet it feels weird, lol.

I definitely see Rock cutting through Ice, though. I'd think Ground would be the most likely removed weakness, or even Steel.

I'm like 95% sure Alolan Sandslash is gonna be slower and that's what they meant, lol.

Rocks do erode under water

It's not unnecessary; while Ice is relatively strong, offensively, as a move, it's not so powerful that it doesn't merit a boost, and not so powerful as Ground.

Ice expansion breaks up and erodes rocks more quickly and effectively than running water does. It takes many, many years to erode a rock into a pebble. It can take as little as minutes to break a rock through freezing water or sheer cold.

On the other hand, glacial drilling shows that ice is actually resilient enough to break down drill bits.

 

[SirOni]

The pokemon would shake it off and most ice types are frail. Some of them are outsped by the opponents.

Don't be quick to dismiss it so easily. Unlike Sleep the Frozen status doesn't go away in a set number of turns and instead has a 1/5 chance of thawing off. Sure you can get lucky and thaw out right away but the odds way more in the favor of it lasting longer likely even longer than the maximum Sleep count of three. One or two turns of inaction can be a pretty crippling disadvantage in this game and a few more than pretty much means the Pokemon was done for as soon as it was frozen.

Also don't be discounting a whole type just because of a few stereotypes. Remember every type has good Pokemon along with the bad. Delibird with a freezing Nuzzle might not make it a deadly force but a Weavile with that move would be all powerful. A few good Pokemon with this move would be way too much. Now working within those preconceived notions about Ice-types many that are lacking Speed are usually because they were designed to have some bulk to them, counteractive as that is to the way Ice-type interacts with others. You'll need a strong super effective move sometimes one that is 4x super effective to OHKO that Ice-type because if you don't your Pokemon will be Frozen with a good chance never acting for the rest of the match. Add to that the existence of the Focus Sash and now we have an incredibly busted move.

 

[Absolclaw]

Ice-type Stealth Rock. Let's get our revenge.

 

[GiraFragMich]

ICE is my favorite type since I battled Lorelei for the first time and it is sad to see it so neglected.

I agree with the Hail defense buff for Ice types in general and it seems like a good time to overhaul the Frozen status. Firstly I would make it so that only if the move was EXECUTED by an Ice type it would have a chance of freezing. Secondly, the Frozen status should last for 3 to 5 turns like Sleep does. These two things I think are necessary to buff the whole type and not make Frozen overpowered.


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

 

[Blob]

I think Ice Beam should have a bigger chance of freezing (20-30%) if used by an Ice Type, so there's a reason to use Ice Types instead of giving the move to Water Types.

 

[Tente]

I agree with freeze only happening when Ice types use moves

Ice-type Stealth Rock. Let's get our revenge.

Bug/Flying and Dragon/Flying types would take 75% on ONE switch with both hazards stacked omg

 

[Matleo]

-If ghost types could free themfels from frozen status after one turn beeing frozen,

-if psychic types could free them self with Teleport (should work like a Detect+give priority to next move but have a doubleedge effect like Protect and low amount of PP, max 3) from the frozen frozen status

-if electric attacks could work similar like fire type moves but would allow in 50% to free them from frozen solid

then maybe a ice type nuzzle wouldn't be that bad??? I also would like to a ice type inferno, ice type ancient power or a ice type reverse-ancient power.

I think Ice Beam should have a bigger chance of freezing (20-30%) if used by an Ice Type, so there's a reason to use Ice Types instead of giving the move to Water Types.

yes that could be made.

Weavile with that move would be all powerful

why we always see worst scenarios, make it restrivted to a few pokemon that need love.

 

[Tente]

also to address the #evidence presented I see Ice being SE on Rock make sense now, but I definitely think it'd only fuck up the type chart further

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

Do you think Ice should be super effective on Bug types? I never heard of bugs that can survive the cold.

 

[Tsutsayosdi]

Do you think Ice should be super effective on Bug types? I never heard of bugs that can survive the cold.

There are arthropods that hibernate in the cold of winter (ash borers) or just keep trucking (mites, snow fleas, and a few spider species).

 

[BigBadButterfree]

Do you think Ice should be super effective on Bug types? I never heard of bugs that can survive the cold.

Just what bug needs. ANOTHER weakness.

 

[CynthiaLover]

Just what bug needs. ANOTHER weakness.

Yeah, let's leave Bug alone. It's got a lot of weaknesses already, and a lot of types resist it, it doesn't need anything else to dampen their buggy spirits.

I still think that Ice should resist at least Dragon, acting like a true counter to it. I know immunity is the perfect counter, but if it could just resist Dragon it would give Dragon-types a lot more to worry about, as they're heavy meta Mons. If anything, maybe have Ice resist Fairy, since it's the newest type, it wouldn't take much to tweak it. I mean, Steel lost its resistance to Dark and Ghost in Gen VI, so it proves that any type can have alterations at any given time, so what's not stopping Ice from resisting the newest type: Fairy? Just a thought.

And like I said before, more exclusive moves for Ice-types. And I do agree with the idea that the Freezing condition will have an increased chance of succeeding if used by an Ice-type and not any other types. And less distribution of Ice moves all around would be helpful, especially Ice Beam and Blizzard.

 

[Tente]

Yeah, let's leave Bug alone. It's got a lot of weaknesses already, and a lot of types resist it, it doesn't need anything else to dampen their buggy spirits.

I still think that Ice should resist at least Dragon, acting like a true counter to it. I know immunity is the perfect counter, but if it could just resist Dragon it would give Dragon-types a lot more to worry about, as they're heavy meta Mons. If anything, maybe have Ice resist Fairy, since it's the newest type, it wouldn't take much to tweak it. I mean, Steel lost its resistance to Dark and Ghost in Gen VI, so it proves that any type can have alterations at any given time, so what's not stopping Ice from resisting the newest type: Fairy? Just a thought.

And like I said before, more exclusive moves for Ice-types. And I do agree with the idea that the Freezing condition will have an increased chance of succeeding if used by an Ice-type and not any other types. And less distribution of Ice moves all around would be helpful, especially Ice Beam and Blizzard.

Agreed. The part about Ice resisting Fairy actually is kinda interesting; I mean, I think there's no reason it doesn't make sense, lol, and it could help Ice a ton. Maybe Fire's Fairy resistance could be traded for Ice, or the Ice Fairy resistance could just be added.