Pokemon Anime Continuity Discussion Thread

[Dogasu]

You have to understand, Japanese language rule in regarding to sentence structure is, the subject is never at the beginning of the sentence.

...Um, no? Whenever the subject is present in a Japanese sentence it's almost always at the beginning.

In the case of Mima's tweet, the subject isn't actually present (which is also very common in Japanese) but by reading the rest of the sentence it's pretty clear, based on context, that Mima's the subject here.

Though, regardless of the second sentence, the first sentence 『ポケットモンスター XY&Z』の続きではない is so straightforward where there isn't any second meaning. When Mima had said that SM is not sequel of XY&Z, this single sentence already causes enough timeline and continuity confusion in the fanbase.

Which it shouldn't, really. I think it's pretty clear that Mima's talking about how the final episode of XY&Z doesn't end with a cliffhanger that's picked up with Episode 001 of Sun & Moon the same way literally evey other series has done up until now. The first episode of Advanced Generation doesn't make sense unless you watch the final episode of the original Pocket Monsters first, the first episode of Diamond & Pearl doesn't make sense unless you've seen the final episode of Advanced Generation first, etc.

People who haven't seen anything before Sun & Moon can jump right in, no problem. That's because Episode 001's not a continuation of XY&Z. That doesn't mean that it's the start of its own continuity, necessarily; just that they're making more of an effort to make each show stand on its own and not have everything be just one big blur.

 

[CrystaI]

Whichever way you interpret it, it is not crucial for continuing the discussion here. Like I said, I leave it up to the reader, not me the translator.

If the word "continuity" or "alternative universe" is too much of a thing, how about "timeline" then?
If SM is not continuation (or the correct word, sequel) of XY&Z, then when and where can we insert this saga within the in-universe history of Pokemon Anime? Is it after Ash finished travelling Kanto? Or after Orange Islands? After Johto? After Hoenn? After Sinnoh? After Unova? After Decolora? Or somewhere else completely irrelevant to the history we already knew and saw on past sagas?

I don't accept the "somewhere off-screen" answer, because either nothing or anything could happened if we don't saw it directly with our own eyes. One may say Ash always trained his pokemons but we just don't saw it on-screen, some can say Ash always sloth off because we don't see him training on-screen, and I can say Ash was in fact f*cking with 10 different girls during his leisure hour because we don't know what he do when he is not on camera.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

I'm confused and little bit disappointed with all these conflicting reports about the translation.

and I can say Ash was in fact f*cking with 10 different girls during his leisure hour because we don't know what he do when he is not on camera.

This reminds me of:

Spoiler

 

[Shadao]

Wait, what does Rica's interview have to do with this?

I believe they are referring to a tweet made by Rica Matsumoto in regards to Ash's new appearance in SM. From what I recall, she said somewhere along the lines that although Ash looks much different in the new anime, he is still the same Ash in spirit. Some took it as proof that it's the same Ash from the original series, while others believe that her choice of words indicate that the Pokémon anime is going to become more akin to the Super Mario Bros series or any DC/Marvel comics featuring a long-running superhero.

Spoiler: Rica Matsumoto's Tweet

View: https://twitter.com/rica_matsumoto3/status/776407594113957888?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdisqus.com%2Fhome%2Fdiscussion%2Fchannel-thedisquspokemonleague%2Fthe_problem_of_keeping_ash_ketchum_1997_present_around%2F

Which it shouldn't, really. I think it's pretty clear that Mima's talking about how the final episode of XY&Z doesn't end with a cliffhanger that's picked up with Episode 001 of Sun & Moon the same way literally evey other series has done up until now. The first episode of Advanced Generation doesn't make sense unless you watch the final episode of the original Pocket Monsters first, the first episode of Diamond & Pearl doesn't make sense unless you've seen the final episode of Advanced Generation first, etc.

People who haven't seen anything before Sun & Moon can jump right in, no problem. That's because Episode 001's not a continuation of XY&Z. That doesn't mean that it's the start of its own continuity, necessarily; just that they're making more of an effort to make each show stand on its own and not have everything be just one big blur.

I agree with this. Out of all the final episodes of the previous series and the first episodes of the new series, the XY&Z - Sun & Moon transition is the most disconnected. The only other transition that ever come close was the Diamond & Pearl - Best Wishes transition, but even that had some connections like Team Rocket's promotion in the last DP episode, and Ash's collection in the first BW episode. There is virtually none for this latest transition.

I will say, however, that the effort to make each series a standalone would lead to some other questions and implication, especially with the new movie featuring a completely new Ash. Namely, would it be simply better to make a new Ash rather than trying to connect him to the old, especially if they are not bothering to use continuity at all? And if XY&Z ended on a definitive note rather than transitioning into the new series, would this not open a Dragon Ball GT situation for the continuity?

 

[Dogasu]

If SM is not continuation (or the correct word, sequel) of XY&Z, then when and where can we insert this saga within the in-universe history of Pokemon Anime? Is it after Ash finished travelling Kanto? Or after Orange Islands? After Johto? After Hoenn? After Sinnoh? After Unova? After Decolora? Or somewhere else completely irrelevant to the history we already knew and saw on past sagas?

After Kalos, obviously. Sun & Moon not being a direct continuation of XY&Z doesn't mean that Alola doesn't directly follow Kalos. Just that the break between the two regions is much more clear than it's been in the past.

 

[Glitchipedia]

I'm gonna go out on a limb with a piece of pure, unsupported speculation. What if this is a new continuity, but characters from the old one eventually reappear as Fallers? That'd be a great way to start introducing the Ultra Beasts.

 

[SinnohEevee]

I'm gonna go out on a limb with a piece of pure, unsupported speculation. What if this is a new continuity, but characters from the old one eventually reappear as Fallers? That'd be a great way to start introducing the Ultra Beasts.

The anime is too lazy to have such stuff.

 

[Jez]

@Dogasu @Crystal @Silktree @FANG-TAN Here is the private conversation of my Japanese friend with Masafumi Mima:

She also sent me this but I do not know if it is necessary (I guess it is about the same subject???)

 

[Silktree]

I'm guessing that the last tweet is about Rica's interview?

Calling @CrystaI again, since that l is actually a capital i.

 

[Cresselia92]

If I'm not mistaken, tags don't work with edited messages. So, I'm going to tag @CrystaI once more, just to be safe.

I'm not sure we will get definitive clues, but hopefully some things will be a bit more clear.

 

[GhostLucario]

After Kalos, obviously. Sun & Moon not being a direct continuation of XY&Z doesn't mean that Alola doesn't directly follow Kalos. Just that the break between the two regions is much more clear than it's been in the past.

While I also think Alola happens after Kalos, I can't help but wonder why the first Sun & Moon episode shows Satoshi leaving 5 pokeballs with Oak... if he only returned to Kanto from Kalos with 3 pokemon (Talonflame, Hawlucha and Noivern). What are the other 2? Pikachu and Greninja's empty pokeballs? Or was this simply a mistake?

 

[Silktree]

It would be Goodra and Greninja's empty balls, if anything, but I don't buy that theory.

 

[CrystaI]

@Jez, just may I ask, in those chat, which one is your friend and which one was you?

 

[ii kanji]

@Jez, just may I ask, in those chat, which one is your friend and which one was you?

Not to speak on her behalf, but I thought those were screenshots of a conversation between her friend and Mima? If her friend took the screenshots then I'd assume she would be the yellow texboxes and Mima the white...

 

[Charmander4]

Ash mentions having Tauros in SM1. I'm still not convinced this is some AU. The movie, maybe, but not the anime.

 

[CrystaI]

That's why I need confirmation from @Jez, who were the one in the chat, if she isn't involved.

 

[Silktree]

Here is the private conversation of my Japanese friend with Masafumi Mima

 

[CrystaI]

Doesn't matter who was the one speaking in the conversation, I'll just translated it anyway.

This is the conversation between Jez's friend and Mima. Because I don't know who is who, so I'll just label them as white and yellow.

Spoiler

White:
Thank you for the translation♬
Basically setting did not changed
but Character Designer had changed
every casts challenge this as a new work with the feeling of restart!

Ah, even I making excuses to Nigami* won't starts anything LOL

Firstly, I'll give my thanks!

Yellow:
OK so...
The Character Designer had changed, also scenario became school-life story which never done previously, during the event hold at Lazona Kawasaki, Ms.Matsumoto Rica had said: "The Satoshi in Pokemon Sun&Moon, after he started off at Masara Town and traveled to several towns he then went abroad to Alola, starting to attend school. This is the setting inside myself."
Is this some common view of everyone (´w`)
In that case, she seems to misunderstood a little bit about Mr.Mima's tweet of "Completely new".
Not "Completely new ... adventure" but rather interpreted as "Completely new Satoshi", Different character? She seems to think in this way.
Although it is not continuation of XY&Z, but they are the same characters. Based on Ms.Rica's words, probably she had the presumption of setting where time had rewind (At least after Team Rocket captured Sonansu), or recognized it as some kind of different world line (´ｗ`). In 1st episode Satoshi deposited 5 monster balls, making one doubt about which era/period was it.
Although there is confusion, there need to have an anime and merchandise development which suits that era! (Roughly understand too much?) ！）

White:
Nyaaa......

Understanding, 100% full point...

I can't believe Ms.Matsumoto said something like that...
I didn't analyzed enough...

Yellow:
100 points! This is great thank you very much! LOL


* Nigami is the name of Yellow. Probably the friend of Jez.

And this one is the screenshot of the tweet of the word said by Rica Matsumoto at Lazona Kawasaki (Though this is not new news anymore......)

Spoiler

I went to the event of Mr.Tomohisa Sako and Ms.Rica Matsumoto hold at Lazona Kawasaki. Ms.Matsumoto Rica said: "The Satoshi in Pokemon Sun&Moon, after he started off at Masara Town and traveled to several towns he then went abroad to Alola, starting to attend school. This is the setting inside myself."

What I'll say in the below will be my personal opinion on this matter as a Pokemon fans, regardless of my role as a translator.

So either her friend or Mima thought Rica Matsumoto thinking Satoshi is a different character is "misunderstanding"...
But, I really can't help but wanted to declare it was rather Mima's word or the entire SM saga make one feel in this way.

If Mima wanted to express it was rather being a new adventure instead of new Satoshi, then why he didn't put the adjective "Completely new" in front of the described object, express the sentence in this way: サトシとピカチュウのアローラでの全く新しい発見、冒険、友情. By putting the adjective in the wrong place, of course you give out the wrong expression to everyone.

And you can't really help that even Rica Matsumoto the voice actor of the protagonist of Pokemon Anime have to think in this way in order for her to fulfill her job, and you doubted is this some kind of common view shared between everyone?
There is a saying that production staff is not audience, so staff will see their own show with a different view than the common civilians. But that really makes me wonder how detached are the mentality of Pokemon Anime staff compare to that of their audience.
If that is indeed some kind of common view shared by everyone, that it really said something about the direction of the show, because if the audience don't think in this way then they can't even continue to watch the show...... How sad is that.

 

[Silktree]

Mima calls it "with the feeling of a restart" and then he takes issue with Rica's interpretation? That's funny.

It seems that even the staff can't wrap their heads around this. I'll take Rica's words at face value since she is the one that seems to have given this matter any thought. I don't expect any further confirmation, but the SM Ash is a much better fit for the movie's continuity than he is for the original one.

And come on, folks, there is no reason why Tauros couldn't be caught in the movie.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

And come on, folks, there is no reason why Tauros couldn't be caught in the movie.

And come on folks, there is no reason they'd bother to show a minor Pokemon like Tauros, whose major role pre-orange League was stampeding the lab.
There is a time limit, you know, so they'd better give a decent pacing to Charmander's evolutions (he's seen capturing a Charmander, and later, a Charizard is there), so that it dosen't look like some in-game grinding.