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Bulbagarden Conversational Chat Thread Vol.5

I know. I'm one of them. I don't really come on much anymore because most of my old buddies left, or some are still here but we stopped talking before I went silent.

@Mintaka Yeah, I shoulda expected it to be Skull related. It's a good one.
 
I think there's going to be 16 more films after it, with a lot more Jedi.
 
I'm kinda confused why Luke thinks the Jedi need to end, honestly. Unless he's just totally broken down confidence-wise.
 
Hunter Blade said:
I'm kinda confused why Luke thinks the Jedi need to end, honestly. Unless he's just totally broken down confidence-wise.
Click to expand...

Pretty much... The take-away I get from the entire series is that the Jedi are the problem, not the Sith. Not because they lack a good purpose, but because their rules are simply unlivable and only help encourage people to slide fully to the Dark Side once they slip. Yoda's own mantra about fear is a great example of that slippery-slope vocalized.

In short, while the Jedi exist to preserve the Light Side, the very methods they do so are ironically the greatest threat to the Light Side and the greatest tool the Sith have.

So, basically, Luke is just finishing what his father started... bringing true balance to the Force. And to do so, I think he's recognized his father had the right idea with destroying the Jedi and then the Sith, but went about both the wrong way. Thus, Luke is walking the same path as his father, only without the child murder and genocide.
 
Ereshkigal said:
Pretty much... The take-away I get from the entire series is that the Jedi are the problem, not the Sith. Not because they lack a good purpose, but because their rules are simply unlivable and only help encourage people to slide fully to the Dark Side once they slip. Yoda's own mantra about fear is a great example of that slippery-slope vocalized.

In short, while the Jedi exist to preserve the Light Side, the very methods they do so are ironically the greatest threat to the Light Side and the greatest tool the Sith have.

So, basically, Luke is just finishing what his father started... bringing true balance to the Force. And to do so, I think he's recognized his father had the right idea with destroying the Jedi and then the Sith, but went about both the wrong way. Thus, Luke is walking the same path as his father, only without the child murder and genocide.
Click to expand...

This is one of the best explanations I've heard. I presume it will be helped by the fact that Ren turned against him.
 
I like that, but I disagree with Anakin wanting to destroy the Jedi to bring balance. He did it because he was scared Padme was going to die and was promised power that he never got.
 
I don't think Anakin was in control of anything he did. The circumstances of his birth and his connection to the Force, as well as the repeated ways that events simply lined up for him so perfectly, kinda makes me think the Force itself was basically using him as a sock puppet. As such, I don't think we can separate him from the results of what he did; I think the Force itself actively forced him to take every step once the Force faced a situation that had become untenable and, effectively, forced the Force to take an active role in solving the problem.

That's why the prophesy about him, and why Yoda reacted like it wasn't necessarily a good thing. I think Yoda instinctively understood, at least on some level, that the Force itself may not necessarily consider the Jedi as an active enforcement of the Light Side any longer... but Yoda himself may not have been able to see any other solution.

The Force couldn't keep up the Jedi-Sith conflict; the conflict was eventually going to result in things going badly for everyone, no matter what. So, it created a final solution to the entire fight: Anakin Skywalker. And then basically placed him right where the Jedi would find him and where he would end up eventually manipulated by a Sith.

Why did Anakin fall in love like that and get someone pregnant? Because the Force wants people around who can still actively use it as enforcers of the Light Side, so it needed to make certain at least one person who has some idea of how to use the Force would survive what is to come. And the only person it could directly manipulate was Anakin, thus it had to be him who fathered them.

Why did Anakin fall to the Dark Side as a Jedi? Because the Force needed him to be close to the Sith so he could later kill them. And it needed him to kill the Jedi. In effect, it needed him to betray both groups, and the only way he could do that is as a member of both groups.

Why did Anakin kill the Younglings? They were already at least partially-indoctrinated and would pass on many of the same mistakes that the Jedi had made, thus continuing the problem. The Force needed the Jedi gone, so it turned its only tool into a child killer because that was the only way it could do so. Incidentally, this issue of indoctrination and having to exterminate children to exterminate what amounts to a military problem is why many real-world nations don't like the use of child soldiers; by real-world standards, the Jedi would likely be found guilty of crimes against humanity.

Why did it have Anakin plod along until Luke finally showed up and challenged him on the Second Death Star? To make certain it had active Force users who could feel the pull of the Dark Side, understand it, and resist. Remember, it still had Leia as a second option, so it could always dispose of Luke if he fell. When Luke showed he wouldn't fall, that's when the Force had Anakin dispose of the Sith and complete the job Anakin had been designed for.

Everything else during the original trilogy was basically about the Force testing Luke and Leia to see if they could stand up to the temptation and prove themselves capable of looking the Dark Side in the eye and resisting.

That's also why I think Anakin got a Light Side ghost afterwards. Not because he actively chose either side, but because he was effectively the Force's puppet and had no choice at all.

The entire Jedi training philosophy was not about resisting temptation, but about never having that temptation to begin with. Early on, this may have worked well... but later on, as we see within the movies, it ultimately provided an easy viper's nest for the Sith and much more reason for Jedi to simply choose to slide all the way down the slope rather than resist the fall at all. Thus, why the Force eventually had to take such of an extreme method of interference to solve a problem the Jedi were no longer capable of even addressing. And thus why the Jedi cannot exist again, but have to be replaced by an entirely new order devoted to a new ideology of how to fight the Dark Side.
 

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