Gen VII (Alolan) Pokemon that are a good counters to previous generation Pokemon?

[winstein]

I think it's interesting to note that this Generation introduced a lot of Grass-types with hazard-removal options. Tsareena and Dhelmise both learn Rapid Spin, while Decidueye, Kartana and Lurantis learn Defog. Note that there were two Defog Grass-types earlier, but the fact that there are new Grass-types that can remove entry hazards is good too. I feel that Grass-types that can remove hazards can go well against Rock- and Ground-types, along with some Water-types that set them, although as of now Tsareena is the only one who seem to have reason to do this (the others are better at offence).

Speaking of Tsareena, I think it's great that it has Queenly Majesty, because it is well-suited to counter some common priority users with High Jump Kick. However, I feel that its Speed could be better. If it has a base 82 Speed, that would be great because it outpaces the common base 80 Speed threshold, which outpaces Mamoswine (most importantly).

Thanks for reading.

 

[Matleo]

Types, other stats, held items, and abilities are always going to affect battle, there's no way around it.

yes but creating pokes where speed is more important would be interesting, a shielding move that could neutralize the demage from a faster pokemon that attacks (not only those with increased priority) and
a other poke one that could avoid hits from slower pokemon.

Now imagine a situation that if you try to hit the one that blocks faster pokemon and your pokemon is faster , then imagine the usefullness if your pokemon knows Hammer Arm.(I really forgot that effect of speed redution, always though about its 90% accuracy.)

Ice Hammer-Speed has no effect on its base power. It can only be learned by a Pokemon that already a very low Speed, so nobody is going to lose much by lowering it further. It also only lowers its Speed by one stage, while Overheat lowers Special Attack by two.

what are the weakness of ice types? do you know what pokemon are faster then Crabominable?

Moves with a base power of 40 are suddenly trump cards? What about Extreme Speed?

with a Crab, mach punch should be posibble becuse of type?
but on the other hand thik Donphan should get Extreme Speed.

I see. What if Pokemon A's Special Speed is higher than Pokemon B's Special Speed in the same situation? Should Pokemon B still go first even when it's slower?

what kind of attacks they use? special or physical? if both use special attacks then Pokemon A would go first.

While not stellar, 77 Defense and 67 Special Defense isn't exactly low.

97 hp, yes but how many oponents can it take on exactly? and how many oponents can easy take it out? most grass, ground , ice users, but really the relation is important.

Flying is weak to Ice, which it gets STAB on. Steel is weak to Fighting, which it also gets STAB on. And it's not the only Pokemon with that many weaknesses.

How many of the current flying and steel foes are faster then it and could take it out in 1 turn with one strong move with Stab? how many would get taken out by a survived Crabominable?

Not all Ice-types get Aqua Jet.

only Dewgong and Beartic to this moment.

It can learn Crabhammer, as a Crabrawler.

at level 37 , good to know. Atleast one good thing.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

what are the weakness of ice types? do you know what pokemon are faster then Crabominable?

Yes, but I wasn't talking about what would happen if Crabominable went up against a Pokemon with Overheat-I was comparing the negatives of Ice Hammer to the negatives of Overheat.

with a Crab, mach punch should be posibble becuse of type?

Why? It's not like the Krabby line got Mach Punch.

but on the other hand thik Donphan should get Extreme Speed.

I can kind of see your point, but I don't think it really suits that. The only time it's known for moving fast is when it's curled up, which suits Rollout more than Extreme Speed.

what kind of attacks they use? special or physical? if both use special attacks then Pokemon A would go first.

I said "in the same situation"-so if pokemon A with physical speed 60 would attack pokemom B(special speed 70) with a physical attack and pokemon B would attack pokemon A with a special attack.

97 hp, yes but how many oponents can it take on exactly? and how many oponents can easy take it out? most grass, ground , ice users, but really the relation is important.

There's more to battles than just STAB. (and arguably, any Pokemon could take any other Pokemon out depending on the circumstances)

How many of the current flying and steel foes are faster then it and could take it out in 1 turn with one strong move with Stab? how many would get taken out by a survived Crabominable?

A great many are faster than it, but determining whether they could be one-shotted isn't easily determined-there's a lot more that goes into determining damage than determining who goes first.

 

[Matleo]

I can kind of see your point, but I don't think it really suits that. The only time it's known for moving fast is when it's curled up, which suits Rollout more than Extreme Speed.

but no rolling move is a increased priority move till now and we got no Speed Roll ability that would make them do so...

Why? It's not like the Krabby line got Mach Punch.

other crab like pokes got aqua jet?

I can kind of see your point, but I don't think it really suits that. The only time it's known for moving fast is when it's curled up, which suits Rollout more than Extreme Speed.

maybe a speed roller ability that could make those kind of rolling moves have increased priority? or a increased priority rolling move?

I said "in the same situation"-so if pokemon A with physical speed 60 would attack pokemom B(special speed 70) with a physical attack and pokemon B would attack pokemon A with a special attack.

you should know it by numbers. whats faster in that situation? dont say A.

A great many are faster than it, but determining whether they could be one-shotted isn't easily determined-there's a lot more that goes into determining damage than determining who goes first.

type, stats, abilities, moves, priority.... whats more ? natures?
speed is important , thats why many of it uses it. But not enough, there is more potential for it.

thats why I want more thinking and evolving game mechanics of it in future.

___________________________________________________

Tapu Koko(electric/fairy) vs. Darkrai(dark)? (is Tapu Koko a good counter for it?)
Darkrai doesn't learn any ground type moves???
Tapu is faster and has fairy type moves to be right, a pitty it got no fighting or bug moves.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

but no rolling move is a increased priority move till now and we got no Speed Roll ability that would make them do so...

I think a move would be better than an ability-there's very few roll-themed moves, after all. (A move like Flame Charge that boosted its speed would've also been interesting)

other crab like pokes got aqua jet?

The only Pokemon based on crabs that learn Aqua Jet are Kabuto and Kabutops, which are pretty different from the Crabrawler and Krabby lines.

you should know it by numbers. whats faster in that situation? dont say A.

My problem is that if Pokemon A's special speed stat is higher than Pokemon B's, then Pokemon B would go first in that situation despite Pokemon A having the higher speed stat.

And speaking of numbers, in this Physical/Special speed split, there's quite a lot of recalculating to do-EVs and IVs from previous Gen Pokemon, what to do with moves and abilities that raise/lower Speed, BSTs, and so on.

speed is important , thats why many of it uses it. But not enough, there is more potential for it.

thats why I want more thinking and evolving game mechanics of it in future.

Just because something can be more important doesn't mean that it should. And this split wouldn't make Speed more important, it would make move categories more important-almost everything in battle would depend on it.

type, stats, abilities, moves, priority.... whats more ? natures?

When any moves, there's the types of both Pokemon, the type of the move, the base power of the move, the accuracy of the move, the attacking Pokemon's Attack/Sp. Attack, the defending Pokemon's Defense/Sp. Defense, accuracy. On top of that, there's sometimes weather, abilities, field effects, and held items. That's quite a bit to work on.

Tapu Koko(electric/fairy) vs. Darkrai(dark)? (is Tapu Koko a good counter for it?)
Darkrai doesn't learn any ground type moves???
Tapu is faster and has fairy type moves to be right, a pitty it got no fighting or bug moves.

Darkrai doesn't learn Ground-type moves, but it does learn Sludge Bomb. I wouldn't recommend it.

I don't think Bug moves would've helped Tapu Koko very much-it has plenty of Flying moves for Grass-types, and Psychic-types don't resist either of its STABs. Fighting would be good for Steel-types, but given that it has STAB Fairy-type moves, there's no need for it to learn another type just for a Dark-type Pokemon.

 

[Matleo]

The only Pokemon based on crabs that learn Aqua Jet are Kabuto and Kabutops, which are pretty different from the Crabrawler and Krabby lines.

there is also a lobster that learns it.

And speaking of numbers, in this Physical/Special speed split, there's quite a lot of recalculating to do-EVs and IVs from previous Gen Pokemon, what to do with moves and abilities that raise/lower Speed, BSTs, and so on.

yes that would be a lot of work, but I dont know if it would make the game better or too hard? but maybe someone could make a beta game to test this first. Giving new stats and changing some moves wouldnt be that a problem, 3-4 years for a new game, the gam,e mechanic would be done in that time. Then interesting changes in the UU and OU would turn out probably.
New kind of gameplay would turn out.
All pokemon would gain new niches and players a hard nut to finger things out.
The creators could make tchem differ more from each other and create posibility to create more new diffrent pokemon.
Moves and abilities would need to change, but new ones would also come.
This way even more gameplay fun.

Just because something can be more important doesn't mean that it should. And this split wouldn't make Speed more important, it would make move categories more important-almost everything in battle would depend on it.

important but not most important and I dont think all would make move categories most important, they are now the same important as speed and others, this would only create more niches and gameplay strategies for players and more posibility to create new diffrent pokemon for the creators in future. Pokes would differ more from each other then in the past.

When any moves, there's the types of both Pokemon, the type of the move, the base power of the move, the accuracy of the move, the attacking Pokemon's Attack/Sp. Attack, the defending Pokemon's Defense/Sp. Defense, accuracy. On top of that, there's sometimes weather, abilities, field effects, and held items. That's quite a bit to work on.

Yes accuracy also something that could be splited between physical and special, but who knows , maybe the future will show.
Then some moves could reduce physical speed and physical accuracy or special speed and special accuracy, or both , or both but one more the other less.
This would make things more coplicated, but who knows , maybe make a poll and ask the gamers and fans if they would want something like this to happen.

Darkrai doesn't learn Ground-type moves, but it does learn Sludge Bomb. I wouldn't recommend it.

I don't think Bug moves would've helped Tapu Koko very much-it has plenty of Flying moves for Grass-types, and Psychic-types don't resist either of its STABs. Fighting would be good for Steel-types, but given that it has STAB Fairy-type moves, there's no need for it to learn another type just for a Dark-type Pokemon.

yes , Sludge bomb, hard to hndle that if you cant block it. But its ffaster and can make a hit atlest.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

there is also a lobster that learns it.

Lobsters are not the same as crabs.

Giving new stats and changing some moves wouldnt be that a problem, 3-4 years for a new game, the gam,e mechanic would be done in that time.

That's time taken to develop a story, maps, Pokemon, moves and/or abilities, graphic changes, etc. We haven't had a stat revamp since Gen 1-and with over 800 Pokemon to rework and test for balance, that would be a much bigger task than it was then.

important but not most important

A move category would determine how much damage is dealt and when the damage would be done. That's a pretty big deal, and in comparison to other factors in battle, I'd say it would be the most important. (It would determine which Defense and Speed of a defending Pokemon would be used, and which Attack and Speed of an attacking Pokemon would be used-that's just about every stat there is besides HP)

and I dont think all would make move categories most important, they are now the same important as speed and others,

Move categories are already important. By making them determine Speed in addition to everything else, you're not making them as important as Speed-you're taking Speed's importance and giving it to move categories.

this would only create more niches and gameplay strategies for players

Players already have roles they like Pokemon to fit in, and unless a Pokemon's Physical or Special Speed was drastically different from its original, not much would change in that role. Alakazam, for example, is commonly used as a sweeper because of its high Special Attack and Speed. If it was given a high Special Speed and low Physical Speed, nothing would change about its role-it still dishes out a lot of damage fast, so it keeps its role.

and more posibility to create new diffrent pokemon for the creators in future. Pokes would differ more from each other then in the past.

There's more to a Pokemon than its stats. Design origin, ability, typing, and movepool allow for far more diversity than stats. Stats are just numbers that affect how a battle plays out-there's only so much variety you can have in them. Ribombee and Noivern have the same Speed stat, for example, but in design, typing, and battle style, they differ far more.

Yes accuracy also something that could be splited between physical and special, but who knows , maybe the future will show.

A physical/special accuracy split would be even worse than a physical/special speed split. You could make a case for why a Pokemon could be faster with physical attacks than with special attacks (though that's still quite a stretch), but why would a Pokemon's aim change depending on a move's category?

Unlike Speed, accuracy isn't a base stat of a Pokemon-it can only be changed in-battle. And there's very few factors that affect a Pokemon's accuracy. (See Statistic - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia ) Why complicate things even more?

And both Speed and Accuracy relate to status moves, not just attacks. This would require a three-way split of those stats, leaving players with twelve stats to deal with instead of eight. (HP, Attack, Sp. Attack, Defense, Sp. Defense, Speed, Special Speed, Status Speed, Accuracy, Special Accuracy, Status Accuracy, Evasion) That's way too much.

yes , Sludge bomb, hard to hndle that if you cant block it. But its ffaster and can make a hit atlest.

Being able to make one hit does not make one Pokemon a counter to another. (And Tapu Koko's base Speed is only five points higher than Darkrai's-depending on natures, IVs, and EVs, a Darkrai could easily be faster than a Tapu Koko)

 

[Matleo]

That's time taken to develop a story, maps, Pokemon, moves and/or abilities, graphic changes, etc. We haven't had a stat revamp since Gen 1-and with over 800 Pokemon to rework and test for balance, that would be a much bigger task than it was then.

Yes that needs also to be done right.
yes, but knowing the creators no task is too great for them.
But really lets take the starters final evolutions, what speed would you give to some of them, pokes like Infernape could have both speed the same, but maybe Samurott would get some special speed.
The same goes for Deciduey. I dont know how many would have special speed=physical speed, but we have a lot of pokemon that sp. def=def and sp.attack=attack.

A move category would determine how much damage is dealt and when the damage would be done. That's a pretty big deal, and in comparison to other factors in battle, I'd say it would be the most important. (It would determine which Defense and Speed of a defending Pokemon would be used, and which Attack and Speed of an attacking Pokemon would be used-that's just about every stat there is besides HP)

got you there. Yes but also abilities and moves , status effects come into play there too.

Move categories are already important. By making them determine Speed in addition to everything else, you're not making them as important as Speed-you're taking Speed's importance and giving it to move categories.

really? rather speed would be shown in a diffrent way, but maybe you are right here. On the other hand, it would be a extra factor in game play, its still speed and the categories are the same categories only some pokes would be faster when using special moves others would be faster using physical and there could be much done with this. Its only a fact.

Alakazam, for example, is commonly used as a sweeper because of its high Special Attack and Speed. If it was given a high Special Speed and low Physical Speed, nothing would change about its role-it still dishes out a lot of damage fast, so it keeps its role.

Yes role stays but other faster physical speed users could gain or not?
Its only a matter of point of view.

There's more to a Pokemon than its stats. Design origin, ability, typing, and movepool allow for far more diversity than stats. Stats are just numbers that affect how a battle plays out-there's only so much variety you can have in them. Ribombee and Noivern have the same Speed stat, for example, but in design, typing, and battle style, they differ far more.

yes but they would differ from each other if lets say one is physically faster then the other and could say use fire fang?
They would differ more or not?

why would a Pokemon's aim change depending on a move's category?

thats simple, the distance between them, a physical mon need to come close to hit it target in most cases, a special attacks from distance giving oponent time to change position.
Plus you think that Rock Slide , Rock Throw and Water Gun have the same aim chance?
Think of Rollute or Rapid Spin, where they have a small chance to see what they are hitting.

Its only a idea, I dont want to complicate anything but if in the past we would not got some changes in past games then you know what I have on mind... every idea needs be very well analised before throwing out completly.

And both Speed and Accuracy relate to status moves, not just attacks. This would require a three-way split of those stats, leaving players with twelve stats to deal with instead of eight. (HP, Attack, Sp. Attack, Defense, Sp. Defense, Speed, Special Speed, Status Speed, Accuracy, Special Accuracy, Status Accuracy, Evasion) That's way too much.

really? too much? I think smogon would need to capitulate or go to work more and people would need more time to finger the difficulties out, but I dont know how it would impact the game and each old or new pokemon.
But as I say I think in what way the creators could go in next gen games to be original and to create more chalenging gameplay for old and new players. What are the most know and played games this days? those that are easy or those that are hard and chalenging in some ways? the game play would be easy but people would need to use more memory or try to play without counting too much, maybe some older players would fall do new players but thats only a wild hunt.

Being able to make one hit does not make one Pokemon a counter to another. (And Tapu Koko's base Speed is only five points higher than Darkrai's-depending on natures, IVs, and EVs, a Darkrai could easily be faster than a Tapu Koko)

ok then give me a list of your potential pokemon counters from alola to older region pokes.

________________________________________________

ok other idea:

lets say we get a dazzling kind version abilities that block, deactivate, copy, throw back moves that:

-are traps (best sends them back to the attacker)

-all multi-turn moves (time, those what need time to activate properly or work for more turns) : all that need second turn frenzy plant, hyper beam, giga impact, fire spin, wrap, whirlpool, clamp, infestation, solarbeam and solar blade(when no sun), all weather and terrain :cast moves and abilities(5 turns),
dive, fly, phantom force , ..., Future sight,

- block multistrike moves or reduce to first hit.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

yes, but knowing the creators no task is too great for them.

They're not gods. And being good at creating concepts for Pokemon and regions doesn't necessarily mean they could easily restructure a huge part of how the game works.

But really lets take the starters final evolutions, what speed would you give to some of them, pokes like Infernape could have both speed the same, but maybe Samurott would get some special speed.
The same goes for Deciduey. I dont know how many would have special speed=physical speed, but we have a lot of pokemon that sp. def=def and sp.attack=attack.

What about their designs suggests that they would be faster with special moves than with physical moves? (Samurott seems like it'd ought to be faster with physical moves rather than special moves, too-it's based on a samurai)

Yes but also abilities and moves , status effects come into play there too.

I never said they were the only thing that mattered, but move categories would matter far more than any other factor in battle. (And you can't really separate move's importance from the importance of move categories, since moves are directly tied into move categories)

On the other hand, it would be a extra factor in game play,

Not always a good thing.

its still speed and the categories are the same categories only some pokes would be faster when using special moves others would be faster using physical and there could be much done with this.

It's not that simple. As I mentioned before, this change would also require a change in the current IVs and EVs of Pokemon from previous generations. (And given how much time players put into breeding Pokemon with perfect IVs, it could be quite frustrating if a Pokemon got a poor IV in the desired Speed stat) It would also require reworking the Hidden Power formula to account for two new variables. (Again, quite a frustration for players that might have breeded to get a specific type of HP) It would affect a lot more than just turn order, which isn't even being changed that much by this.

Yes role stays but other faster physical speed users could gain or not?

Alakazam was just used as an example-not all sweepers are special attackers. If a fast attacker still keeps its speed in the category that matches its attack, its role is going to stay the same.

Its only a matter of point of view.

You said this just after saying it's only a fact.

yes but they would differ from each other if lets say one is physically faster then the other and could say use fire fang?
They would differ more or not?

You're still going with my example of Noivern and Ribombee, right? One different stat and one different move between the two are differences, yes, but that's barely a change. They're different for a lot more reasons than "One can learn a move that the other can't". (And Noivern has STAB Flying-type attacks, it doesn't need a Fire-type move to take care of a Bug-type)

thats simple, the distance between them, a physical mon need to come close to hit it target in most cases, a special attacks from distance giving oponent time to change position.

Not all physical moves are close-up. Attack Order, Rock Throw, Barrage, Bonemerang, Bullet Seed, Earthquake, Egg Bomb, Explosion, Fire Lash, Fissure, Fling, Gear Grind, Gunk Shot, Icicle Crash, Icicle Spear, Ice Shard, Land's Wrath, Leafage, Magnet Bomb, Magnitude, Pay Day, Petal Blizzard, Pin Missile, and Razor Leaf are all long ranged, just to name a few.

really? too much? I think smogon would need to capitulate or go to work more

So Gamefreak needs to work with numbers more, Smogon needs to work with numbers more...where does the fun part of the game come in?

and people would need more time to finger the difficulties out,

Pokemon's not really a game where people struggle to be able to play-there's enough strategy in battles to let competitive players have fun without being too complicated for people that just want to play on their own. People shouldn't have to suddenly adjust to a more complicated battle mechanic like separate accuracies for each move category.

But as I say I think in what way the creators could go in next gen games to be original and to create more chalenging gameplay for old and new players. What are the most know and played games this days? those that are easy or those that are hard and chalenging in some ways?

You're contradicting yourself here. First you say that Game Freak should try to be more original and creative-and then right afterwards, you say that they should do what the most popular games are doing.

Not all games should be the same-people have different tastes, after all-but the most popular games don't really tend to be the overcomplicated ones, according to List of best-selling video games - Wikipedia . Tetris, Mario Kart, Super Mario Bros., Wii Sports Resort...they're not exactly overloaded with stats to calculate. (Though a lot of these are also from a popular series, so they have the benefit of familiarity)

ok then give me a list of your potential pokemon counters from alola to older region pokes.

I never said I had any such list. I do not need to provide a list of other new Pokemon that counter other old Pokemon to prove that Tapu Koko isn't a counter to Darkrai. However, I would say that Alolan Ninetails can be a useful counter to Kingdra (if it knows Freeze Dry) and any Dragon/Flying type, given its immunity to Dragon and STAB on a double weakness. However, its own double weakness to Steel keeps it in a lot of danger.

all that need second turn frenzy plant, hyper beam, giga impact, fire spin, wrap, whirlpool, clamp, infestation, solarbeam and solar blade(when no sun), all weather and terrain :cast moves and abilities(5 turns),
dive, fly, phantom force , ..., Future sight,

These moves are all really different from each other.

• Frenzy Plant, Hyper Beam, and Giga Impact are moves that require the user to recharge on the second turn, but that's not part of the move itself. (The Pokemon can be switched out in PVE, or with Roar/Red Card to skip the recharge turn) It's just meant as a sort of recoil for the move, like Overheat lowering the user's special attack. Solar Beam and Solar Blade's charging turn functions the same way.
• Partially trapping moves are just inflicting a damage over time effect on the target, not unlike a curse or a burn. It's not using a move over and over; the Pokemon is free to use other moves or even leave the battle without the target being freed.
• Terrains and weather are effects on the whole battlefield, not a move that lasts for that long. Why not count the boost from Charge as a multi-turn move if we're including them? Or entry hazards?

- block multistrike moves or reduce to first hit.

I think that could be an interesting ability! We do already have one ability connected to multistrike moves (Skill Link), so it'd be fun to have a counterpart to it!

 

[Matleo]

They're not gods. And being good at creating concepts for Pokemon and regions doesn't necessarily mean they could easily restructure a huge part of how the game works.

yes but, maybe create two speeds , that would not differ from them on the starts and based on that make moves rise/reduce one kind of speed? dont know, but if they go out of ideas in future this maybe a thing.

I also like Z-moves, hope they come up with stones to buff abilities or give second abilities to some pokes in future.

What about their designs suggests that they would be faster with special moves than with physical moves? (Samurott seems like it'd ought to be faster with physical moves rather than special moves, too-it's based on a samurai)

that's the point. We see it all. That would suggest that physical/special speed split should be posibble. But maybe it not needs to hapen.

You're contradicting yourself here.

Japan is famous for bringing new and tradition together in a better Union or not?

all together I know that some ideas are better some worse but thinking of them dont harm anybody and maybe something better can be created. We play games for fun, for mind training and if we win becuse we want to better understand something, thats then more important and gives greater fun to play.

These moves are all really different from each other.

• Frenzy Plant, Hyper Beam, and Giga Impact are moves that require the user to recharge on the second turn, but that's not part of the move itself. (The Pokemon can be switched out in PVE, or with Roar/Red Card to skip the recharge turn) It's just meant as a sort of recoil for the move, like Overheat lowering the user's special attack. Solar Beam and Solar Blade's charging turn functions the same way.
• Partially trapping moves are just inflicting a damage over time effect on the target, not unlike a curse or a burn. It's not using a move over and over; the Pokemon is free to use other moves or even leave the battle without the target being freed.
• Terrains and weather are effects on the whole battlefield, not a move that lasts for that long. Why not count the boost from Charge as a multi-turn move if we're including them? Or entry hazards?

ok, I understand that , maybe I overdone it a little.
But I wanted a time related ability that would use the "turn" phenomenom more.


what would you say to a bug/ground or bug/dragon type pokemon that could hide underground when terrains are active on battle field?
a worm thats always "dig" in ground, that would only come out when using physical contact moves and burry back the next turn?(only when terrains are activated, could have big attack, low special attack but speed would need to be around 100)

 

[TechSkylander1518]

yes but, maybe create two speeds , that would not differ from them on the starts and based on that make moves rise/reduce one kind of speed? dont know, but if they go out of ideas in future this maybe a thing.

If Pokemon have the same starting physical and special speeds,

I also like Z-moves, hope they come up with stones to buff abilities or give second abilities to some pokes in future.

That's pretty much Mega Evolution-Pokemon can get stronger abilities, and with the right timing, some of them can get the benefits of both their abilities. (Though not as useful as being able to switch or to have two at once)

Japan is famous for bringing new and tradition together in a better Union or not?

There's a difference between modernizing tradition and saying "let's be original by doing what everyone else is doing".

that's the point. We see it all. That would suggest that physical/special speed split should be posibble. But maybe it not needs to hapen.

Just because one Pokemon's design could suit a physical/special speed split doesn't mean the same holds true for all the other Pokemon. What about Tropius, Voltorb, or Nosepass?

But I wanted a time related ability that would use the "turn" phenomenom more.

I do think that'd be a very fun ability, and I hope we get something like that in the future, I just think that these moves don't really suit that idea.
QUOTE="Matleo, post: 6136411, member: 82709"]
what would you say to a bug/ground or bug/dragon type pokemon that could hide underground when terrains are active on battle field?
a worm thats always "dig" in ground, that would only come out when using physical contact moves and burry back the next turn?(only when terrains are activated, could have big attack, low special attack but speed would need to be around 100)[/QUOTE]
I'd love to see a mechanic like that! Worms digging underground seem like they could have some pretty cool designs in Pokemon!

 

[Matleo]

That's pretty much Mega Evolution-Pokemon can get stronger abilities, and with the right timing, some of them can get the benefits of both their abilities. (Though not as useful as being able to switch or to have two at once)

Yes you are right, better let megaevolution take that role.

There's a difference between modernizing tradition and saying "let's be original by doing what everyone else is doing".

yes , but sooner or later you use things , better to mix right old ones with new ones for good play.

Just because one Pokemon's design could suit a physical/special speed split doesn't mean the same holds true for all the other Pokemon. What about Tropius, Voltorb, or Nosepass?

yes that a good point, maybe let the moves do more the work, but wait the amount of speed reduction or rising moves is a little underwhelming if you see at there types and those types who lack them most.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Is Golisopod with First Impression is a good counter to Alakazam? (most dark and psychic types)
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hmmm they really could make new abilities strong and work for the first 3 or 4 turns when the pokemon is on the field, if it wouldf get switched out there could be a turn count like it is done with Perish Song, but the turns would be count when the pokemon would be on the battle field only and use moves.

Imagine then a pokemon immune to all special attacks(dragon/ghost)
or a pokemon to immune to all physical attacks could happen. (this could also work for 4 turns)

Even a pokemon with speed maybe 75 that would be immune
to all moves of pokemon with greater speed then its own .
When the oponent goes first in battle phase, this pokemon is immune to its attacks for 4 turns when its in battle.
(speed barrier- force field that blocks faster movements, ground/psychic , ghost/steel, steel/psychic or ghost/psychic, camel, with molten clocks on its humps)
- when the oponents pokemon would using decreased priority moves would always hit it not depending on their speed diffrence.

Or a pokemon with speed maybe 110 that would be immune to all moves from slower pokemon then itself
When the oponent goes last during battle phase this pokemon would be immune to its attacking moves for 4 turns.
(speed force- to fast to hit it, ground/electric kangoroo mouse)
- its oponents could always hit it with priority moves not depending on their speed.
-it self could learn Dragon Tail or revenge to hit the camel.

in Trick room this would be amusing.

this abilities would not protect from weather demage, spikes, poisoning , burning , paralizing or freezing.

Then it could work well. If it only would work for 3 or 4 turns when send in battle as a turn count when on the field. If switched out the turn count is stoped till the pokemon comes in battle again.

The oponent can always switch, use protect (2-3times), Mold Breaker, Acid Spray or use a strategy or move to his advantage.

This way thoise pokemon could get good movesets and stats.

Becuase I can't see a too much overuse of :

Disquise (water/grass swamp aligator, or a ice/bug grass hopper or mothman),

Dazzling(ground/psychic camel, come on, that would be weird if Dazzling isnt buffed with blocking also speed reduction/rising moves)

Queenly majesty (Nidoqueen and Vespiqueen, yes they should get it too, maybe a ghost/steel female clock).

like we had with Levitate in past.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

(Hating to break into your mold here... but I was just reading this... and bolding your whole post is NOT a good idea for readers)

 

[TechSkylander1518]

yes , but sooner or later you use things , better to mix right old ones with new ones for good play.

Not necessarily. There's a lot of other directions that can be taken in a game besides complicating

Is Golisopod with First Impression is a good counter to Alakazam? (most dark and psychic types)

I would say yes. With +3 priority, you can switch it in without worrying about being hit first, and Alakazam's Defense is pretty low. I don't think it's true for all Psychic or Dark types (some have some pretty high defense), but it can definitely take care of the more fragile ones.

 

[Matleo]

First Impression also matters to grass types.

what about Primarina?
how many special sweapers need to kiss the deep sea after meeting with her sp.def , sp. attack and secondary fairy typing?