Speculation General Remake Discussion

[Norzan]

Because it's not feasible to create 800+ 3D models in 3-5 years. It might not even be feasible in 6-8 years. The sheer number is just not humanly possible without spending a ludicrous amount of time on them, 3D models take more time to render than 2D sprites, and we have twice as many Pokemon now as we did before the jump to 3D. That means they have 4 times the workload, maybe more.

And i would gladly wait as long as possible for a game that has all pokemon with good models, much better polish and actual content over what we have now of every game feeling extremely unfinished and rushed.

So yes, there's no need to compromise anything.

 

[RileyXY1]

Although I’m not thinking that we’re even getting a remake this generation at all.

 

[Bolt Strike]

And i would gladly wait as long as possible for a game that has all pokemon with good models, much better polish and actual content over what we have now of every game feeling extremely unfinished and rushed.

So yes, there's no need to compromise anything.

No you don't get it. If they spent all of the time they needed getting it right that might cause a mess of even worse problems, such as missing opportunities to create new Pokemon and gameplay mechanics, missing entire console generations which would give them the opportunity to experiment with new control schemes and gimmicks and even more new gameplay mechanics, and you would likely end up waiting an eternity for a game that feels stagnant and not that fun. The time, money and effort required to get it right would likely be too great to be worth doing. Extending dev times to 4-6 years to give the game the extra polish it needs is reasonable, that's enough of a timeframe for them to make a quality, well rounded game and come up with smaller filler content that doesn't feel too repetitive. Extending it to 6-10 to have every Pokemon is going to cause more problems than it would solve. The roster is simply too big and the technology too advanced now to create a polished, enjoyable game with every Pokemon.

 

[Nicolas721]

If Dexit had had a negative impact on sales there would be a chance it could be reversed, but that's not the case and the sales are stronger than ever, so it's clear it's here to stay.

And the problem isn't exactly the models, but also the animations, and how the Pokemon interact with every one of the games' features: Picnic, Poke Jobs, Let's go, taking pictures, their moves, etc. All of that has to be checked manually, and when you understand that it's actually incredible that they manage to bring in 200 extra Pokemon in the DLC.

Another argument that has become visible with time is that some Pokemon could be very centralizing for a certain's game battles and metagame. Legends Arceus' system is famously broken by investing a lot in Speed so something like Deoxys Speed could break it easily, and some mons from SV wouldn't have become juggernauts if certain Pokemon from past gens were available (which would hurt their exposure and fan interest in them).

 

[Bolt Strike]

Although I’m not thinking that we’re even getting a remake this generation at all.

So then what are we getting? Gen 10 isn't coming until 2025 at least (some people think 2026 for the 30th anniversary, but certainly no sooner than 2025) and they like to maintain a yearly presence. What game are they making next year if it's not a remake?

 

[Greninjaman]

If Dexit had had a negative impact on sales there would be a chance it could be reversed, but that's not the case and the sales are stronger than ever, so it's clear it's here to stay.

And the problem isn't exactly the models, but also the animations, and how the Pokemon interact with every one of the games' features: Picnic, Poke Jobs, Let's go, taking pictures, their moves, etc. All of that has to be checked manually, and when you understand that it's actually incredible that they manage to bring in 200 extra Pokemon in the DLC.

Another argument that has become visible with time is that some Pokemon could be very centralizing for a certain's game battles and metagame. Legends Arceus' system is famously broken by investing a lot in Speed so something like Deoxys Speed could break it easily, and some mons from SV wouldn't have become juggernauts if certain Pokemon from past gens were available (which would hurt their exposure and fan interest in them).

I never really considered the part I put in bold...
The animations and stuff like that would also require a lot of time and work.

 

[FelipePR]

Plus, would the switch be able to handle all 900+ Pokemon? If they were 2D Sprites, then maybe.

Game Freak already has all Pokémon Modeled in 3D, since they still use the same models since XY, the fact that the 8th and 9th generation games did not contain all Pokémon was, in time, more a "creative" decision and a measure of caution to long term.

And, as Bolt Strike said:

The total number of assets in the game has little to nothing to do with performance, that's more an issue with how many are rendered on screen at a time...

 

[Bolt Strike]

Game Freak already has all Pokémon Modeled in 3D, since they still use the same models since XY

Ehh, not really. XY -> SM seems kind of similar, but other than that they've changed them each game and the models get more and more detailed, with higher polygon counts, larger variety of colors, more detailed shading, etc. They're clearly not copy/pasting here, they seem to be reinventing the wheel each gen as they adapt to HD game development.

Anyway, this discussion is getting off topic. Larger point here, I think the constant work on high quality 3D models means we might not even see the National Dex from that generation for future remakes and it's going to be more like SwSh and SV, anything that isn't in the regional dex isn't in the game period. They don't seem to think they can handle more than 400ish Pokemon in a game and 5th gen is where the National Dex passed that point. Add in that the original BW only had new Pokemon and they need to save something for the post game areas and they have the perfect excuse to cut things down to just BW1 Pokemon in the main game and just BW2 Pokemon in the post game.

 

[FelipePR]

Ehh, not really. XY -> SM seems kind of similar, but other than that they've changed them each game and the models get more and more detailed, with higher polygon counts, larger variety of colors, more detailed shading, etc. They're clearly not copy/pasting here, they seem to be reinventing the wheel each gen as they adapt to HD game development.

I could be wrong, but I remember reading an article that said that the models of Pokémons from Sword/Shield were the same as those from XY.

Namely, that Game Freak had already rendered the pocket creatures in high definition and with high polygon counts, and that these models had been underscaled in the games, but were, in principle, the same.

 

[Kallyle]

Game Freak already has all Pokémon Modeled in 3D, since they still use the same models since XY, the fact that the 8th and 9th generation games did not contain all Pokémon was, in time, more a "creative" decision and a measure of caution to long term.

It wasn’t a creative decision beyond the Let’s Go titles: it was most likely done to be quick, cheap, and to charge for Pokémon Home instead.

 

[DigitalGen6]

I could be wrong, but I remember reading an article that said that the models of Pokémons from Sword/Shield were the same as those from XY.

They’re not.

It wasn’t a creative decision beyond the Let’s Go titles: it was most likely done to be quick, cheap, and to charge for Pokémon Home instead.

Because they like to have a three year generation plan (so like Gen 8 lasts 2019-2022, SwSh in 2019, HOME/DLC in 2020, BDSP in 2021, LA in 2022). Then they cut half of the Pokédex. I wanted a Unovan Zorua in Shield, I couldn’t at all get one and now I know why.

 

[FelipePR]

They’re not.

It seems to be a more complex issue than meets the eye. I don't understand much of the subject, so maybe I got it all mixed up and be, by relying on other people's opinions and explanations, being deceived.

However, as explained in the following post: An actual technical analysis of the whole reused model situation, apparently, the 3D base models of Pokémon have been the same forever.

They were created to be future-proof, and development on them started as early as BW. Furthermore, other companies, not just GameFreak, are responsible for making these models.

However, as, in each game, The Game Freak used different game engines, the models had, in each instance, to be converted, which seems not to be something as simple and literal as 1+1, and the textures redone.

 

[Mr_Creative]

I think Scarlet/Violet gives us some pretty mixed signals on whether there will be Unova Remakes or some Johto game (I’ll say Let’s Go games). Though I think there’s an argument for both games being the one that comes in 2024.

For Let’s Go! Johto:
*I bet Pokémon wants to keep Pokémon Go alive, and this would be one way to do it.
*It’s been longer since we’ve got a Johto game (2009) than a Unova game (2012).
*Scarlet/Violet really encourages exploration and going at your own pace, which I think is what the Johto games also tried to do.
*Simply put…Johto Pokémon get a ton of love in Scarlet/Violet, with the number of new evolutions, Paradox forms, and how many trainers use them.

In terms of Unova Remakes:
*It would make sense that any Unova Pokémon not yet on a Switch game after the DLC comes out would be released in a Unova Remake.
*If Pokémon wants to release Gen 10 in 2026 to coincide with the 30-year anniversary, then assuming they keep up the yearly releases…Black/White in 2024 and Black2/White2 in 2025 (I don’t think I’d even mind too much if they were ICLA remakes).
*While Gen 5 Pokémon got a bit of recognition in Gen 9, it got a lot of attention in Gen 8, giving it a time advantage over Johto’s recognition.
*In general, Gen 9, for me, seems like something of a reboot for the franchise (Scarlet = Red), so why not punctuate the new reboot with the original reboot for the franchise?

I guess we have to wait for the next Pokémon Day to see what’s going to shape up for the rest of Gen 9.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think Scarlet/Violet gives us some pretty mixed signals on whether there will be Unova Remakes or some Johto game (I’ll say Let’s Go games). Though I think there’s an argument for both games being the one that comes in 2024.

For Let’s Go! Johto:
*I bet Pokémon wants to keep Pokémon Go alive, and this would be one way to do it.
*It’s been longer since we’ve got a Johto game (2009) than a Unova game (2012).
*Scarlet/Violet really encourages exploration and going at your own pace, which I think is what the Johto games also tried to do.
*Simply put…Johto Pokémon get a ton of love in Scarlet/Violet, with the number of new evolutions, Paradox forms, and how many trainers use them.

In terms of Unova Remakes:
*It would make sense that any Unova Pokémon not yet on a Switch game after the DLC comes out would be released in a Unova Remake.
*If Pokémon wants to release Gen 10 in 2026 to coincide with the 30-year anniversary, then assuming they keep up the yearly releases…Black/White in 2024 and Black2/White2 in 2025 (I don’t think I’d even mind too much if they were ICLA remakes).
*While Gen 5 Pokémon got a bit of recognition in Gen 9, it got a lot of attention in Gen 8, giving it a time advantage over Johto’s recognition.
*In general, Gen 9, for me, seems like something of a reboot for the franchise (Scarlet = Red), so why not punctuate the new reboot with the original reboot for the franchise?

I guess we have to wait for the next Pokémon Day to see what’s going to shape up for the rest of Gen 9.

Although them bringing back all the starters in Scarlet and Violet makes remakes much less unlikely to happen. I'm expecting something entirely different next year.

 

[DigitalGen6]

Although them bringing back all the starters in Scarlet and Violet makes remakes much less unlikely to happen. I'm expecting something entirely different next year.

I don’t think they’re gonna bring back the Unova starters (except the Oshawott line and Hisuian Samurott) or Johto starters (except Cyndaquil line and Hisuian Typhlosion). Maybe it’s because I didn’t do my research? Who knows.

 

[RileyXY1]

I don’t think they’re gonna bring back the Unova starters (except the Oshawott line and Hisuian Samurott) or Johto starters (except Cyndaquil line and Hisuian Typhlosion). Maybe it’s because I didn’t do my research? Who knows.

According to the latest trailer for the DLC they're bringing them all back.

 

[DigitalGen6]

According to the latest trailer for the DLC they're bringing them all back.

Wait…what? Finally, I get to have a Tepig in Scarlet! (I play Scarlet primarily because my Violet data is connected to a story I’m working on)
Oh, and also Totodile!

 

[RileyXY1]

So I'm thinking that this next Pokémon game will not take place in a past region at all.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Although them bringing back all the starters in Scarlet and Violet makes remakes much less unlikely to happen. I'm expecting something entirely different next year.

I don't think bringing back all of the starters is necessarily an indication that we're not getting remakes. We got all of the legendaries in Crown Tundra and that didn't stop us from getting Sinnoh remakes, likewise I don't think all of the starters will stop us from getting a game in one of those older regions. I'm not sure what else they can do between now and Gen 10 besides an old region of some kind, a new region outside of a new generation doesn't feel feasible because of development issues (plus what would be the point?), and another Paldea game would feel too repetitive, even if they did a different feeling sequel/prequel like BW2 or LA. An old region just seems like the most sensible choice for 2024.

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't think bringing back all of the starters is necessarily an indication that we're not getting remakes. We got all of the legendaries in Crown Tundra and that didn't stop us from getting Sinnoh remakes, likewise I don't think all of the starters will stop us from getting a game in one of those older regions. I'm not sure what else they can do between now and Gen 10 besides an old region of some kind, a new region outside of a new generation doesn't feel feasible because of development issues (plus what would be the point?), and another Paldea game would feel too repetitive, even if they did a different feeling sequel/prequel like BW2 or LA. An old region just seems like the most sensible choice for 2024.

They did keep the Sinnoh fossils out of the Crown Tundra (for obvious reasons).