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How much romance should there be in the Pokemon anime?

How much romance should there be?

  • Level 0: strictly platonic

    Votes: 4 8.7%
  • Level 1: platonic, but ambiguous hints of romance

    Votes: 14 30.4%
  • Level 2: platonic but unambiguous hints of romance

    Votes: 9 19.6%
  • Level 3: romance as a subplot, adventure as the main plot

    Votes: 16 34.8%
  • Level 4: romance as the main plot, adventure as a subplot

    Votes: 3 6.5%

  • Total voters
    46

Likeitornot.

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We have ushered in the end of the XY series, which possibly saw an unexpectedly romantic ending, satisfying many Amourshippers in its wake. Serena's character and her canon crush on Ash Ketchum added another dimension to the idea of romance in the Pokemon Anime, something that people seem to be either adamantly against, or desiring more input.

Usually, I would say the Pokemon anime (by my own little rating scale) tends to sit at Level 1, occasionally dipping into Level 2. This is aided by the fact that the protagonist happens to be a ten year old boy without any consideration for romance. Shippers have long debated and contested hints in their preferred shippings, that many times, can could be considered ambiguous or analogous to a platonic interaction. It's possibly a series that gives shippers no indication of what, if anything, would become canon due to its long-running nature and the fact the main cast of characters do not age.

There are many factors to take into account when thinking about the romance - the ages of the cast, the genre that it's set in, etc. So, to leave the question to all of you; how much romance should there be in the pokemon anime, and why?
 
I don't see why they couldn't add a romance element into the show if handled right with out taking away from ash's goal to much
 
Agree with Shoutmon's question.

When it comes to Satoshi and his friends, I feel that Level 0/1 is enough and more than enough. After all, they're only children and nothing can, should or will happen between them as long as the anime maintains its status quo. Personally, I found Serena's crush too much. Not because I think it's wrong or anything like that, I just found it made dull and predictable viewing, and honestly served only to underline the pre-existing boy/girl stereotypes which the series had set up.

The TRio are adults so it's a little different, but they're not going anywhere and I really don't want to watch any one of them romancing (each other or anyone else) as part of the main series. That being said, I will never say no to some Level 1/2 Rocketshipping fun...

Everyone else is anyway allowed to have romance, especially in the movies. Viola/Zakuro was all but said out loud in the XY anime. The truth is though, I think the fun in shipping is the ambiguity! It's so much more enjoyable to endlessly dissect a vague Level 1 hint than watch people snogging. Romance shouldn't be taboo in the anime but I am really quite happy with the current romantic status quo.
 
Level 1, at least. This doesn´t apply to Ash and companions, though. Brock made me cringe so hard after Johto and Serena never had a chance. Now, we always see some couples here and there in some episodes. This is perfectly fine. A recent example that I can remember is the Pikachu guitarrist trainer. He kinda got a crush on Serena and it was cute.
 
For Ash or other characters?

When I wrote this, I had the main cast of characters and recurring characters in mind, rather than once-off characters and film-only characters (since canon romance tends to spring up in those latter two cases more often, understandably so). So yeah - Ash Ketchum - and the cast of characters that surround him, too. It is a good point, though since a few people might view Ash as an aromatic character and envision that trend continuing into his future too.
 
Level 3 is the bare minimum I'd accept for this particular case. I don't know about other shows specifically, but I'll never go below Level 2.
 
Interesting answers so far! I was expecting a tie between level 2 and level 3, however it seems level 2 isn't as popular as I initially believed it would be. Naturally, level three would suit the atmosphere of this section, as we are in Shipper's Paradise, after all.

However, for me the choice has to be probably level 1. The reasons for that are as follows:

1. Balance between importance of platonic and romantic love: What's a great thing about this generation, and it's something I hope to see pioneered more often as well, is appreciating the value of platonic love as well as criticising the societal dogma in western culture of romantic love being the ideal everyone should achieve (it's not for everyone). There shouldn't be a competition between platonic and romantic love in my opinion, they should not be contested as one to be better than the other, they are different forms of love and therefore there shouldn't be a ranking. I'm not a huge romantic, and platonic relationships have always been important to me, so I appreciate children's shows for their emphasis on friendship and hope that more media with an adult audience focuses on this. I do sometimes watch romantic dramas, as they're relaxing but I find it jarring when platonic relationships are undervalued. This can be one of the Pokemon anime's strengths; so I fear if they focus too heavily on romance, it'll be at the cost of the importance of these friendships.

2. Ability to write romance: we've all seen criticism of problematic romantic portrayals in media, we've all probably watched some of these first hand on the screen or through the pages of a book. I don't feel romance is easy to write - neither is platonic friendship but we do idealise that less in adulthood - and I have seen authors floundering at writing it well, if it isn't their genre, for example: J.K Rowling (if everyone here has read the Half-Blood Prince, you'll know. The stomach monster), even though I feel she's highly accomplished at writing fantasy as well as world-building. In other ways, I don't want a bad romance to be seen as idealistic or healthy, which can happen often in fiction. Since Pokemon's audience is the particularly impressionable, I don't know... if I can trust it to be written well or to be written faithfully.

3. The vast majority of the main cast are children, so it wouldn't be that realistic or right to push them into romantic relationships until they were in their adolescence or as adults. Also, I feel how would the writing change if we aged them up to accommodate this - would the Pokemon anime lose the appeal of light-heartedness? Would the script writers feel pressured to change the tone of the anime? Not everyone would agree with that.
 
In my case, the characters would be written as teenagers. An age increase is long overdue, but I have little to no qualms about at least semi-serious romance for characters Eureka's age (she'd still be younger than ten).
 
I wouldn't mind more romance, but considering that the characters don't age, Level 2 is just fine for me. The excuse that the target audience is "too young" and won't be able to relate to romance sounds pretty restricting and feels like underestimating children to me because we get all those Disney/Pixar/Dreamworks movies with romance ranging from nonexisting to being the major plot
  • nonexisting (i.e. Big Hero 6)
  • ambiguous (i.e. Mulan - I know that in the sequel she gets married, but in the main theatrical release there's hardly any notable romance between her and the captain except for a few hints)
  • minor references (i.e. Toy Story)
  • sub-plot (i.e. Tarzan, The Lion King)
  • major plot (most of the classic princess movies such as Beauty and the Beast).
They're released for all ages and I've hardly heard about anyone complaining about kids not being able to relate to the romance aspect. Sure, the characters themselves aren't 10, but that doesn't mean they can't understand what love is and what having a crush is. The kids probably won't understand romance in the same way as an adult does, but they do get the general idea in their own way. I agree, though, that pushing the romance way too much and neglecting the importance of a platonic relationship would be unbalanced and one-sided, and it's important for children to know that there are a lot of different types of love. But it's not a bad thing to show that characters can love one another just like the real human beings we are. Personally, I feel that it's not bad to deliver the message that it's okay to like someone and feeling embarrassed and shy around someone you like are normal and nothing to be ashamed of.
 
Just to mention, in case of Japanese anime, there is a common portrayal trend that romance = sex. Really unlike Western cartoons and Disney animations, Japanese tends to portray romance in a very sexual manner. Especially in the recent few years, if it is not Shoujo battle anime like the old Sailormoon or Precure, Japanese romance are often mixed together with pornography, or at the bare minimum verbal pornographic jokes and banters.

Unfortunately that is just the cultural difference between Japan and Europe/America, where latter understands the difference between romance and sex. Given a Western writer he/she can create a romance story without a trace of sexual reference not even a mention about the woman's body nor her bare skin, but for a Japanese writer the chance of he/she create a romance story without a single sexual reference, of course including anything related to woman's body and one's bare skin, is probably impossible.

Just a very common yet simple thing: Blushing. But blushing isn't anything sexual! I guess someone wanted to say this immediately. The point is, does Western cartoon characters blush so often even that is pure romance story? Japanese anime tends to portray romance via physical means through one's body. That's why not only blushing, but also holding hands, exposing the character's naked skin to another character, getting physically closed to each other, etc. Those are the common ambiguous (unambiguous?) hints for romance.
On the opposite, in Western cartoons and animations, romance are not necessarily portrayed by physical contacts between characters. Most of the time it is rather portrayed by the deep mutual trust and tacit understanding between each other. The two characters in loved with each other may not even touch each others' body, but they have like a telepathic linkage where each other understands the needs and wants of the other side without saying it out aloud. Western romance tends to portray it spiritually.

That's why, I voted Level 0, because I do not trust the Japanese portrayal in romance which is generally speaking quite problematic. Unless, the Pokemon Anime staff somehow learned to show love and romance spiritually.
 
Thank you for your point.

Just to reinforce this point so everyone has no misunderstandings, the romance in this ranking system, at all levels is not sexual at all or sexually explicit. This is a site for all ages, and thus the content will be family-friendly, so yes, you can take examples such as Sailor Moon or any shoujo titles with light romance (Lovely Complex, Kimi Ni Todoke, Orange) in mind when you consider the amount of romance. Inappropriate and sexually explicit content will not be tolerated.
 
First, I misread the survey and chose Level 4. I thought it said what Level 3 said.

Second, romance has been in Pokemon multiple times. I wouldn't be bothered if they actually made it a subplot, kinda like XY. Also, the fact that Ash has been shipped with all of his traveling companions really shows how we see romance in the anime. I mean, even the smallest detail may flare up a ship group (amourshippers like me, for example). The reason I chose 3 is because, since XY was more mature compared to the other seasons (and SM), I'm seeing the producers moving into a more wider and "serious" (no right word for it) audience. SM may not have romance yet, and SM may be a slight backtrack, but romance is definitely going to be a part of the series.
 
Now I would respect that if it was done it Pokémon it would be done with moderation and little physical contact, but yeah I wouldn't be opposed to it happening at all.

2. Ability to write romance: we've all seen criticism of problematic romantic portrayals in media, we've all probably watched some of these first hand on the screen or through the pages of a book. I don't feel romance is easy to write - neither is platonic friendship but we do idealise that less in adulthood - and I have seen authors floundering at writing it well, if it isn't their genre, for example: J.K Rowling (if everyone here has read the Half-Blood Prince, you'll know. The stomach monster), even though I feel she's highly accomplished at writing fantasy as well as world-building. In other ways, I don't want a bad romance to be seen as idealistic or healthy, which can happen often in fiction. Since Pokemon's audience is the particularly impressionable, I don't know... if I can trust it to be written well or to be written faithfully.

Additionally, conflict as much as it needs to exist should be natural. Inserting it solely to ensure that things won't be boring or saccharine is just trying too hard. But same can be said for other non-romance based tension as well.

3. The vast majority of the main cast are children, so it wouldn't be that realistic or right to push them into romantic relationships until they were in their adolescence or as adults. Also, I feel how would the writing change if we aged them up to accommodate this - would the Pokemon anime lose the appeal of light-heartedness? Would the script writers feel pressured to change the tone of the anime? Not everyone would agree with that.

Honestly I think with theoretical good writing it can be done without any need to age characters up, plus the reason I tend to not see romance as a problem well is due to how say Pokémon is.

I mean like other anime, it tends to have some pervy moments where the main female character is sexualized, yet consensual a kiss/hug is the straw that broke the camel's back?

Or for that matter how it or other things like Digimon or Avatar The Last Airbender have lead children/tween/teen characters having the fate of the world put on the solders of children and going up against murderous people/creature. Which while not problematic like say the pervy fanservice stuff, still gives me mixed messages.

Like, it's perfectly fine for Aang set up to face a genocidal madman who wants to off him, but the idea that said kid can't have a permanent relationship with Katara?:unsure:

Pretty sure there aren't many child soldiers as of current in Japan or the US.
 
Always the odd one out, my vote went for Level 2, despite my shipper heart veering to Level 3, I know the writers and this show work best with Level 2.

If it’s unobtrusively light and innocent and handled well without overtaking either character and the overall writing and development is instead contributing to both their respective growth like May and Drew, where they still had an extremely satisfying rivalry as focus, yes.

I HATE Pokemon battles and find them boring, but their battle in the Kanto GF was the first to genuinely excite me!!! They also matured from a senpai/kouhai dynamic to equals (dropping the “Haruka-kun” and adopting a more equal dynamic after she saved his life, etc.), which was very satisfying.

When ship-teasing and skeevy fanservice preceds the character’s personal development and pushes other aspects out of the spotlight for a little over a whole year’s worth of episodes, that makes me question if I’m really watching Pokemon or one of those generic competitive shounen series with a girl cheering on the sidelines and crushing, but sadly not contributing very much herself...

I realize Serena got very good development later and I genuinely loved their final scene and found it tender and sweet (minus XY’s insistence on skeevy low angle shots until the end like when she’s running up the escalator and her clothes are fluttering......), but yeaaah.

HATED skeevy ecchi style fanservice of shiny, sweaty, flushed Ash and the questionable shiptease in the fever episode. Bad, bad.

When it’s done well and doesn’t drown out the characters or get weirdly sexualized = yes!! Otherwise, no thanks. Shippers will ship based on dynamics and a cute scene or two even without substantial intentionally romantic scenes or plots. ^o^;
 
In reality the anime doesn't have much shipping outside a select few sagas. There was the early Kanto/Orange stuff with Ash/Misty that was then dulled down in Johto considerably, then Contestshipping in AG, and then pretty much nothing till Serena's crush in XY.

Every other ship people go on about is mostly very subtle or just characters being friends. Which is fine, people can ship any character for fun or for fanart and fanfics, but in reality most of the anime has no shipping in it. It's actually kind of mind blowing that because Serena's crush was so recent, people seem to act like there's this huge shipping stuff in every saga...there really isn't. Most of the time crushes in the anime are played for jokes like Tierno's on Serena, or Kenny and Conway's on Dawn, or Brock's various crushes, and just go nowhere.

The fact that the anime is over 1,000 eps now and over 22 years going and only 3 sagas at most could be considered to have "real" shipping subplots says enough in itself. Most of the main girls of the anime have no real canon love interests, it's just fun fan interpretations.
 
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