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How to Fix the Ice Type

I think Ice should be super-effective on Normal, because normies don’t like the cold. Maybe Fairy as well, but that’s a bit of a reach. Still, more ways to counter the Fairy type would be nice. Also Ice should resist Normal and Fairy.
 
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I think Ice should be super-effective on Normal, because normies don’t like the cold. Maybe Fairy as well, but that’s a bit of a reach. Still, more ways to counter the Fairy type would be nice. Also Ice should resist Normal.

ghost resist normal and fighting, normal resists ghost...
Hmmm how is it with stats?
Ice type has higher total stats then fairy , normal and rock?
But it is weaker then fire, steel and fighting?

Interesting Ice is averege faster then grass and ground but slower then flying and dragon.

Ice is averege faster then normal, but slower a little then fairy and rock, but much slower then fire and fighting.

There could be way by using dazzling and queenly majesty on ice types, giving them more priority moves
good that 2 ice types learn Fake Out, but i could see a better user.
A ice type version of First Impression is even more posibble if I think of Tsareena counterring it.

the interesting thing we got this generation a rock type with a rock priority move thats 2x damage against ice.

If ice should resist something then it should be ice, water and normal. Then a fire/ice pokemon could have more usage if it would not need a water immunity ability, but who knowe?
 
ghost resist normal and fighting, normal resists ghost...
Immune...

On the subject of decent Ice-types, what about Cryogonal? It has high special defence (the highest of all Gen 5 Pokémon), a surprisingly diverse move pool (I was surprised to discover that it learns Flash Cannon), and actually succeeds at being a glass canon by having high speed and special attack. And a nice-sounding cry. Okay, so it's not the most amazing Pokémon ever, but it's something.
 
Immune...

On the subject of decent Ice-types, what about Cryogonal? It has high special defence (the highest of all Gen 5 Pokémon), a surprisingly diverse move pool (I was surprised to discover that it learns Flash Cannon), and actually succeeds at being a glass canon by having high speed and special attack. And a nice-sounding cry. Okay, so it's not the most amazing Pokémon ever, but it's something.

yes immune. sorry.

Cryoganal? yes , its decent with Levitate and Light Screen.

Im not saing that ice type is that bad but it needs faster and other kind of pokemon than now.
What kind of pokemon do we have in ice type? sweapers? slow walls(physical, special)? fast walls? stallers? trappers?
gimmick?
 
I think Ice should be super-effective on Normal, because normies don’t like the cold.

I'm a normie and I love the cold! Plus, look at how many normal types have plump areas and fur.

Maybe Fairy as well, but that’s a bit of a reach. Still, more ways to counter the Fairy type would be nice. Also Ice should resist Normal and Fairy.

Ice being SE against Fairy and/or resistant to it would be a good move imo.

Ice in general needs a couple more resistances. Bug, Grass, Flying, Water, etc are all contenders imo.
 
Ice in general needs a couple more resistances. Bug, Grass....are all contenders imo.
No.

Why do people keep insisting on buffing Ice by nerfing the other weakest types?!?!?

Seriously, we can't think of a way to improve one type without shitting on other types that also need help?

Bug is already resisted by many key types (Fire, Flying, Steel, Poison, Fairy.)

Grass is resisted by seven effing types. Why the hell would you add another one?!?!?
 
No.

Why do people keep insisting on buffing Ice by nerfing the other weakest types?!?!?

Seriously, we can't think of a way to improve one type without shitting on other types that also need help?

Bug is already resisted by many key types (Fire, Flying, Steel, Poison, Fairy.)

Grass is resisted by seven effing types. Why the hell would you add another one?!?!?
And that’s why I want to try and nerf arguably the strongest types in the game to make a more balanced playing field.
Fairy should be weak to Ice and Ice should resist Fairy. That change alone will make Ice stronger, but not Godmode strong.
 
And that’s why I want to try and nerf arguably the strongest types in the game to make a more balanced playing field.
Fairy should be weak to Ice and Ice should resist Fairy. That change alone will make Ice stronger, but not Godmode strong.
Fairy is a strong type, but it's very far from broken or even overpowered. However, that's a conversation for another thread. Not this one.
 
No.

Why do people keep insisting on buffing Ice by nerfing the other weakest types?!?!?

Seriously, we can't think of a way to improve one type without shitting on other types that also need help?

Bug is already resisted by many key types (Fire, Flying, Steel, Poison, Fairy.)

Grass is resisted by seven effing types. Why the hell would you add another one?!?!?

Okay, then give it other resistances besides itself. It's fucking ridiculous that Ice type has less resistances than every other type in the game, and that single resistance is itself.

Obviously, if Bug and/or Grass were included in its resistances, they would need a buff somewhere else. But Water, Flying, and maybe Fairy are the more obvious choices.

And that’s why I want to try and nerf arguably the strongest types in the game to make a more balanced playing field.
Fairy should be weak to Ice and Ice should resist Fairy. That change alone will make Ice stronger, but not Godmode strong.

Exactly.
 
Okay, then give it other resistances besides itself. It's fucking ridiculous that Ice type has less resistances than every other type in the game, and that single resistance is itself.

Obviously, if Bug and/or Grass were included in its resistances, they would need a buff somewhere else. But Water, Flying, and maybe Fairy are the more obvious choices.



Exactly.
Don't misunderstand, I'm in favor of buffing Ice. Just not at the expense of Grass and Bug.
 
What would be if ghost would resist ice and ice would resist ghost?
Ghost love cold and in myths, legends and ghost stories cold and ghost are going together.
Imagine - Deciduey is ghost: it would take neutral damage to ice attacks and imagine now Palossand and Golurk worrying only about ghost,dark , grass and water attacks.
Jynx would take neutral damage from ghost attacks and would have only 5 weak points.
Drifblim and Giaratina would also profit from this.
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Then they could make ghost SE against fairy and we could get a interesting relation between fairy, dark and ghost.
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Ice should resist normal if its weak already to fight.
I know rock and steel resist ice but if you dig with your bare hands in ice they begin to freeze.
Many normal pokemon this days use moves of diffrent types.
Also the relation between ice and psychic, if its could then the mind doesnt work well, yes?
ice should resist psychic if something (then psychic could resist fairy).

I think this too would be good and enought.

(If we start messing up the type chart too much then people wont be satisfied at all.)
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My change:
- ice should resists ghost and normal
- ghost should resist ice
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not sure about this ones:
- ice could/should resist psychic
- psychic could/should resist fairy
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Ice could get a type based immunity against spider web, toxic spikes (damage and poison status), spikes and halfed stealth rock damage. (not removing them from field ofcourse)

Maybe a weather thing, that ice types could heal up 1/10 hp during rain every turn or get more speed?
 
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I feel that resisting a very common/useful offensive type goes a long way. For one, if Ice resisted Flying, it will be a more serviceable type. Even Psychic resists Fighting, a pretty good offensive type. Because of this, I think that Ice should resist both Ground and Flying, since both offensive types are really powerful. It might not patch its weaknesses well, but it will at least make it really good to have, like Grass which resists Water and Ground, both great offensive types. If it's one or the other, I would prioritise Ground over Flying to differentiate it from Steel.

Thanks for reading.
 
Normal is weak to one type, two types resist it, and one type is immune to it, with the only benefit being an immunity to Ghost. Giving it another type that resists in would definitely hurt Normal immensely, unless it is given a benefit to make up for it. I'm all for boosting Ice, but not at the expense of shafting another type.

But normal has Foresigh, Scrappy and Thick Fat users.

Poison got a Corrosion user and fairy type to get better.

Dark got prankster immunity.

Some types got terrains.

good that ice got Aurora Veil but we would need more strategy, more abilities and diversity not based only on hail. (ice type with dry skin, weak to fire but could work well against water pokes in rain)
 
Giving Ice resistances just feels iffy to me. Except for Fairy.
I can excuse Fairy because it would mirror how Poison is Super Efective to it. Fairy is a key type, so a single change involving it goes a very long way indeed. Before Gen VI Poison was basically Ice's defensive twin. Fairy outright fixed Poison.

Other than that, I think one of the biggest issues with Ice is Water types being essentially better Ice types than Ice itself.
Instead of giving them resistances, I would preffer to keep it as decidedly frail and fix Ice in roundabout ways, by carefully changing type interactions. The biggest thing in my mind is to discourage the use of Water, give a reason why should you send Ice pokemon instead of Water.
For this, I want to improve Electric and especially Grass' offensive presences. I already talked about that in the Grass thread, but basically:
- Electric SE to Steel. This also helps how Steel has complete advantage over Ice.
- Just, make Grass not awful. Make that SE to it actually count for something! This is why resisting it is a bad idea, too.

But this is still not enough because despite it supposedly being a "glass cannon" type, it doesn't quite have an offense optimized for it, a lot of the interactions are checks that essentially mean you get walled as Ice type. Especially with their also narrow movepools (more on that later)
So I think, while not adding any SE, resistances to Ice should be removed to prevent walling (that Water could just get around). I'm personally fond of Gen I's neutrality to Fire, although I could also see Water.

Then, like Grass, Ice types generally have narrow STAB movepools. I could see moves involving reflecting light on Ice types, or even other Steel moves.
Hail could increase Special Defense of all Ice types, like Sandstorm for Rock.

Finally the elephant in the room: Game Freak keeps making bulky, slow, tank-like Ice types for some reason, which fall to their own type fraility. The type favors fast offensive pokemon like Weavile instead, that don't really care being weak to a million things because it'll die in one hit from anything anyways.
 
@Sana Did you mean that Poison was Ice's OFFENSIVE cousin?
Well, I was thinking "Poison was a bad defense-oriented type to Ice being a bad offense-oriented type" but yeah, Poison was offensively as bad as Ice defensively.
 
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To be honest, I think snow warning Ninetales + aurora veil pretty much fixed ice type.
Just look at the usage of hail teams in VGC 2017 compared to rain and sun.
 
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