I'm honestly kind of bored of Sun & Moon right now...

[Cresselia92]

I just have a hard time relating to anyone who was fine with the anime's formula for nearly 20 years. The show desperately needed to be shaken up.

Comparisons to games are irrelevant since those don't come out on a weekly basis...

Plenty of shows on a daily basis followed the same main theme for many years and worked just fine. At some point, they form a sense of familiarity and identity which is difficult to ignore and which many people don't want to see removed.

It's fine to shake things up a bit, as long as the whole thing doesn't take a complete turnaround. Otherwise, at that point, you may as well create a new show, rather than forcing a show with already known standards and theme to be manipulated in such a way.

 

[KenzeyEevee]

Plenty of shows on a daily basis followed the same main theme for many years and worked just fine. At some point, they form a sense of familiarity and identity which is difficult to ignore and which many people don't want to see removed.

It's fine to shake things up a bit, as long as the whole thing doesn't take a complete turnaround. Otherwise, at that point, you may as well create a new show, rather than forcing a show with already known standards and theme be manipulated in such a way.

So it looks 'new'.
But it stays the same Ash and that is the most important thing to me!

 

[Almonds]

It's no more action packed than SM:

Ash met his classmates, battled Team Skull and got the Z-Ring (1)
Ash battled Tapu Koko and performed a Z-Move for the first time (2)
Team Rocket get Mimikyu (3)
Ash catches Rowlet (4)
Ash meets Litten, who he wants to catch but won't because Stoutland (7)
Lillie gets the Vulpix egg and overcomes a part of her fear (8)
Ash fights and beats Totem Gumshoos, gets Normalium Z (9)
Ash fights and beats Hala, gets Electrium Z (10)

Does none of this matter because Ash isn't traveling? I'm having a hard time accepting this logic.

I guess it is just my bias because I loved the serious and story-driven XY/XY&Z series the best. There were a lot of early episodes foreshadowing important plots later on. And when just comparing the first few episodes, I felt really impressed by the improved quality of battles and the subplot surrounding Froakie, Serena, Clemont, etc. On the other hand SM didn't really have that much of a strong 'hook' to me and the daily comedy didn't seem quite as appealing. When I watched XY, I was waiting eagerly for the next episodes. SM... not really. But I guess if the target audience likes it then all's fine and well.

So... yeah. I'm waiting for Gladion to appear and stir things up.

 

[KenzeyEevee]

So it looks 'new'.

I guess it is just my bias because I loved the serious and story-driven XY/XY&Z series the best. There were a lot of early episodes foreshadowing important plots later on. And when just comparing the first few episodes, I felt really impressed by the improved quality of battles and the subplot surrounding Froakie, Serena, Clemont, etc. On the other hand SM didn't really have that much of a strong 'hook' to me and the daily comedy didn't seem quite as appealing. When I watched XY, I was waiting eagerly for the next episodes. SM... not really. But I guess if the target audience likes it then all's fine and well.

So... yeah. I'm waiting for Gladion to appear and stir things up.

Will he even appear?

 

[Silktree]

I guess it is just my bias

Thanks for the honesty.

Who's next?

 

[KenzeyEevee]

Thanks for the honesty.

Be happy he is honnest, that he dont lie to you!

 

[Silktree]

Be happy he is honnest, that he dont lie to you!

Oh, I'm happy. These things take a long time to admit.

 

[KenzeyEevee]

Oh, I'm happy. These things take a long time to admit.

Great! I am proud on you,Silktree! Really,I am proud!!

You two made an intresting discussion! Thank you for that!

 

[Jaye]

I guess it is just my bias because I loved the serious and story-driven XY/XY&Z series the best. There were a lot of early episodes foreshadowing important plots later on. And when just comparing the first few episodes, I felt really impressed by the improved quality of battles and the subplot surrounding Froakie, Serena, Clemont, etc. On the other hand SM didn't really have that much of a strong 'hook' to me and the daily comedy didn't seem quite as appealing. When I watched XY, I was waiting eagerly for the next episodes. SM... not really. But I guess if the target audience likes it then all's fine and well.

So... yeah. I'm waiting for Gladion to appear and stir things up.

I don't have a problem with this at all. Entertainment is about feeling and if you're not feeling something - if the show isn't doing it for you - then that's fine. XY had a lot going for it early on.

All I'm really trying to do is point out that SM has a lot going for it, too. That the whole idea that nothing is happening or that not a lot has happened compared to the older sagas is a misconception. Plenty has happened but for some reason people seem to dismiss it.

I guess this applies to @Cresselia92, too. I can't do anything if SM isn't for you, but I do take issue with how dismissive you are of what SM is doing (the sarcasm doesn't help, either). Particularly the whole "we know jack about the characters" argument, which fails to acknowledge that we've learned plenty about the cast in these episodes. You just chose to ignore most of it or just didn't care about it. I know as much about Lillie, Kiawe and Mallow as I did about Serena and Clement after the same amount of episodes in XY.

 

[Cresselia92]

Eh, can't really help it. Sarcasm is how I deal with things that I don't like. But if you want me to be serious, I can be serious. Anyway, I feel like we have derailed the thread long enough, so I will be as concise as possible.

Simply put, SM didn't grab my attention, like… at all. Those past episodes have been an eye-rolling snooze fest for me, aside of the Rockruff and Lillie episodes. Those were genuinely interesting, but two good episodes can't compensate for 17 uninteresting ones.

However, all characters feel like a simple "been here, done that" than anything else. They feel like expies of characters we have already seen in the past.

Though, I can't really blame the anime for that. After 900+ episodes, it's natural that there will be many repeats and some characters may seem mere rearranged clones.

…But I guess it isn't only that. It's the whole comedy veil that is enveloping this saga that makes me disgruntled by everything that is happening. I simply can't take the plot seriously if there is such a surplus of visual gags, which makes everything seems just one self-contained joke. I like humor, but there is a limit for everything.

Regardless of everything, I'm gonna wait. I'll wait to see how this "new" saga will handle more serious stuff, like drama and tragedy. If those will be somehow diminished by the overall comedic tone of this saga, I will be truly disappointed. I hope they will hold back on the jokes and handle at least that good enough to satisfy my tastes.

Many people were disappointed by XY and abandoned it? I guess… it's only fair that I will eventually follow suit with SM, if it doesn't grab my attention fast enough.

 

[KenzeyEevee]

Eh, can't really help it. Sarcasm is how I deal with things that I don't like. But if you want me to be serious, I can be serious. Anyway, I feel like we have derailed the thread long enough, so I will be as concise as possible.

Simply put, SM didn't grab my attention, like… at all. Those past episodes have been an eye-rolling snooze fest for me, aside of the Rockruff and Lillie episodes. Those were genuinely interesting, but two good episodes can't compensate for 17 uninteresting ones.

However, all characters feel like a simple "been here, done that" than anything else. They feel like expies of characters we have already seen in the past.

Though, I can't really blame the anime for that. After 900+ episodes, it's natural that there will be many repeats and some characters may seem mere rearranged clones.

…But I guess it isn't only that. It's the whole comedy veil that is enveloping this saga that makes me disgruntled by everything that is happening. I simply can't take the plot seriously if there is such a surplus of visual gags, which makes everything seems just one self-contained joke. I like humor, but there is a limit for everything.

Regardless of everything, I'm gonna wait. I'll wait to see how this "new" saga will handle more serious stuff, like drama and tragedy. If those will be somehow diminished by the overall comedic tone of this saga, I will be truly disappointed. I hope they will hold back on the jokes and handle at least that good enough to satisfy my tastes.

Many people were disappointed by XY and abandoned it? I guess… it's only fair that I will eventually follow suit with SM, if it doesn't grab my attention fast enough.

You are right!

 

[Saizo]

You can't just single out specific episodes. The trend is reflected in averages.

Also, I am not necessarily saying thst SM is better written than XYZ (although I think it is). Just that Japanese kids seem to like it better.

Can you stop comparing the ratings of these two series ? SM is a NEW anime about a TOTAL NEW game , XY&Z was a series who was airing since 3 years about a game who was released 3 years before , if you want to compare ratings , compare the first season of XY ratings with SM ratings :

XY018 : 6.8
SM018 : 3.7

SM is not doing better than XY at all, wait 3 years and you'll be able to compare XY&Z and SM season 3 but comparing the first season of S&M and XY&Z is just stupid asf.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Since I haven't seen much of SM, I can't really compare it too much with XY beyond some details I've heard about. However, I do feel like claiming that XY was action packed right from the start is a bit misleading in a sense. There definitely were battles and a good hook with its first couple of episodes, but it wasn't a serious action series and I don't think it's start was too drastically different from most of the previous series either. We still had early capture episodes and episodes establishing some of the new characters in other series too. I don't think that the series even started to get a lot of popularity until either the middle of its run or right around the time when the XYZ season started. I've been rewatching XY's first season and I forgot how much I missed the relaxing episodes with Ash and his friends just traveling or having fun together, especially when the XYZ season was so serious. There are still good battles at the start of the series and I do like the XYZ season, but I also felt like it was perhaps more serious/intense than I'm used to with the Pokemon anime. I'm not sure if that's necessarily a good or bad thing considering I did enjoy the Team Flare arc, but this does make me think that I'll enjoy the calmer tone in SM when the dub finally starts airing, especially when I really liked the first two episodes.

I can understand why people might not like SM from what I've heard about it, but it also doesn't sound like nothing has happened yet.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Surely the reason for that is because they're fixed to one location!

Surely Cresselia was talking about humans in real life and not the people who play pokemon games.

 

[KenzeyEevee]

Surely Cresselia is talking about humans in real life and not people who play pokemon games.

You can see that martianmister is smart!

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Does none of this matter because Ash isn't traveling? I'm having a hard time accepting this logic.

Of course there is still action, but it's much more slower and lacking substance compared to XY.

The characters in SM don't revolve around Ash.

Yes, they're distanced from him.

Ash gets to help them and actually come across as caring.

He didn't care about Serena and Citron?

 

[Shoutmon]

TR are the best characters in SM.Be happy Dogasu.

 

[Silktree]

Can you stop comparing the ratings of these two series ? SM is a NEW anime about a TOTAL NEW game , XY&Z was a series who was airing since 3 years about a game who was released 3 years before , if you want to compare ratings , compare the first season of XY ratings with SM ratings :

XY018 : 6.8
SM018 : 3.7

SM is not doing better than XY at all, wait 3 years and you'll be able to compare XY&Z and SM season 3 but comparing the first season of S&M and XY&Z is just stupid asf.

First of all, way to cherry-pick the highest rated XY episode, and even inflate the number from 6.4. The average over the first 20 episodes is probably around 5.3. Nice way to make a point while calling someone else's stupid.

Secondly, viewing habits change in 3 years. Sazae-san is still the most watched anime show, but these days its average is about 12.5 rather than 15.5. Similarly, Detective Conan's is around 7.5 rather than somewhere in the upper 8 range. It's safe to say that as time goes on, people watch less live TV, since they have more streaming and on demand options.

The last batch of XYZ episodes also happen to be the most story-driven and action-heavy. It makes perfect sense to compare those ratings to SM's when I see complaints about SM being too laid back. If anything, bringing ratings from 3 years ago into this, reeks of desperation and a poor understanding of how ratings should be judged.

Sure, SM benefits from being the new kid in town. But it seems to be doing a decent job at it, which you wouldn't tell from the negativity in this thread.

 

[Shadao]

Since I haven't seen much of SM, I can't really compare it too much with XY beyond some details I've heard about. However, I do feel like claiming that XY was action packed right from the start is a bit misleading in a sense. There definitely were battles and a good hook with its first couple of episodes, but it wasn't a serious action series and I don't think it's start was too drastically different from most of the previous series either. We still had early capture episodes and episodes establishing some of the new characters in other series too. I don't think that the series even started to get a lot of popularity until either the middle of its run or right around the time when the XYZ season started. I've been rewatching XY's first season and I forgot how much I missed the relaxing episodes with Ash and his friends just traveling or having fun together, especially when the XYZ season was so serious. There are still good battles at the start of the series and I do like the XYZ season, but I also felt like it was perhaps more serious/intense than I'm used to with the Pokemon anime. I'm not sure if that's necessarily a good or bad thing considering I did enjoy the Team Flare arc, but this does make me think that I'll enjoy the calmer tone in SM when the dub finally starts airing, especially when I really liked the first two episodes.

I can understand why people might not like SM from what I've heard about it, but it also doesn't sound like nothing has happened yet.

I think part of the appeal of XY from the very start was the removal of stock backgrounds as per request from the director Yajima. It changes the way we think about anime Pokémon battles (coinciding with Origins style) and its effect can still be seen in the Sun and Moon series. It was new and refreshing in a good way. And I believe that is why many praised it to be action-packed, even in episodes that are filler. Also, I believe that first two episodes left the biggest impression for many people, which is something crucial in order to hook people into watching. Sun and Moon's first two episodes weren't as dramatic, and I believe they haven't clearly established how Ash was going to graduate from school. Is it the Z-crystal hunt or some test exam? And what about the others in school? How will they graduate?

You know, when this series was announced, many people feared that Ash was going to reset in terms of battle skills to justify his integration with school, just like Best Wishes. Fortunately, that did not occurred as people had feared, but it seems an opposite problem has emerged in its absence. If Ash is already an experienced trainer and battler, what lessons are there for him to learn? People are now complaining that the school aspect is not emphasized enough and that Ash and friends are just longing around. How would this genre benefit if Ash was legit newbie at Pokémon rather than this awkward stage of balancing the 10-year old aspect and the veteran aspect of Ash? Would it help Sun and Moon be more engaging than it is now?

 

[SinnohEevee]

And so, what's Ash's next destination?

Normally, Ash goes to challenge Gyms in order to reach the League. Does he still say he wants to become a Pokémon Master or they dropped that too?