Kanto/Johto Sequels

[Boss1708]

Looker and a revised Pokedex are trivial additions. You may really like them, but they required a few days' work at most.

I think the "planning" of which Pokemon to include in the Dex expansion for Platinum would´ve taken more than a few days, even if the implementation was easy itself.

ORAS' staff was around 70. When Ohmori said 100, he included localizers.

Actually, last year, I found a website that had a list with all the people creddited for developing ORAS, and when I counted them, there were around 100 staff members there, without counting the localization staff, which were also credited on that site, in a separate paragraph. So ORAS was developed by 100 staff members without counting localization staff and similar filler roles (yes, I know GF only had around 80 full time employees during the development of ORAS, but external non- full time staff members, helped them as well, increasing the number of developers working on OR/AS to 100 staff members. I remember the name of some studio working with 3D being creddited there as well)

Anyway, enough talk about old remakes.

I agree. Thanks for the info regarding Morimoto´s interview, though. I didn´t know about it.

As for the Kanto- Johto sequels, remember that would need a brand new Plot as well, like what BW2 had over BW1, which would be additional development time that HGSS didn´t require.

 

[Morningstar]

I wonder what the games would be called.

They haven't used Orange and Purple as names yet, and it would go well with SM's choice of Background colors.

 

[Silktree]

I think the "planning" of which Pokemon to include in the Dex expansion would´ve taken more than a few days, even if the implementation was easy itself.

Eh. Most of them were just the cross-generational lines they had omitted from DP deliberately...

As for the Kanto- Johto sequels, remember that would need a brand new Plot as well, like what BW2 had over BW1, which would be additional development time that HGSS didn´t require.

It's a good thing that the staff is much bigger, then. But the people tasked with writing are like 3 members of the staff, so your point is rather weak to begin with.

 

[Boss1708]

It's a good thing that the staff is much bigger, then. But the people tasked with writing are like 3 members of the staff, so your point is rather weak to begin with.

Bigger compared to Gen IV, you mean? I mean, yeah, true. But I also think developing in SM´s gridless graphical engine would take a lot more time, especially for 2 regions that had grid based movement.

But yeah, you are right that only 1-3 guys are usually tasked with conceptual stuff.

 

[Silktree]

Bigger compared to Gen IV, you mean? I mean, yeah, true. But I also think developing in SM´s gridless graphical engine would take a lot more time, especially for 2 regions that had grid based movement.

SM took two years just like DP and BW.

What does that tell you?

 

[Mitchman]

I've been posting about this all over the place, but it's high time this thread was revived:

Between Go making Johto Pokemon available and Ho-Oh starring in the movie, I feel much more confident about Johto being included alongside Kanto. And I think that we're getting very close to an announcement.

Reiterating from my first post:


The simpler approach seems a lot more likely to me, and frankly, it may be just as interesting as the more ambitious suggestion.

I think a fates style split would be a more necessary approach to the games if Johto is in as well. I firmly believe that if Kanto/Johto sequels happen in one fell swoop, it would basically be one mass8ve overhaul, something never seen before in the series. Basically, with the way Alola was made and how expansive the routes are now, there will likely be 3 different talking points within the games:
-Major new areas both in Kanto and Johto. They could easily add 4-5 new cities to each region, to match with the other regions who all have a lot more places to explore without having to gain a badge.
-A restructuree Route numeralization standard. All the small routes that link into each other, or even some of the larger ones, will likely be renumbered to accompany the newer routes so the tally is still within the average route count for the regions.
-All the old routes will be expanded to be cohesive and more natural to the surroundings. What I mean by this is that with the gen 7 engine, everything will need some overhauling. A lot of routes relied on ledges early on in the series to gate progress for example. The fishing docks and maze between lavender and Fuschia for example could now include the entire coast line and show curvature. Route 2 could be overgrown, and the shortcut for viridian could now resemble something like a hidden passage between bushes. Perhaps they could expand Ilex Forest and have a new sea route straight from there to Cianwood, and give us a funky coastline with a forest looming in the background. But yeah, not to be a drag, basically gen 7 map design maximized the surface area for exploration compared to the gates worlds of yore.

I think, especially with the final point, that to just have a remix game that has you explore the centeal area first while relegating the rest to a post league would be mildly less interesting then 2 fully realized regions getting each their own game that shows how progess has changed em, both in game and developer wise.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I think a fates style split would be a more necessary approach to the games if Johto is in as well. I firmly believe that if Kanto/Johto sequels happen in one fell swoop, it would basically be one mass8ve overhaul, something never seen before in the series. Basically, with the way Alola was made and how expansive the routes are now, there will likely be 3 different talking points within the games:
-Major new areas both in Kanto and Johto. They could easily add 4-5 new cities to each region, to match with the other regions who all have a lot more places to explore without having to gain a badge.
-A restructuree Route numeralization standard. All the small routes that link into each other, or even some of the larger ones, will likely be renumbered to accompany the newer routes so the tally is still within the average route count for the regions.
-All the old routes will be expanded to be cohesive and more natural to the surroundings. What I mean by this is that with the gen 7 engine, everything will need some overhauling. A lot of routes relied on ledges early on in the series to gate progress for example. The fishing docks and maze between lavender and Fuschia for example could now include the entire coast line and show curvature. Route 2 could be overgrown, and the shortcut for viridian could now resemble something like a hidden passage between bushes. Perhaps they could expand Ilex Forest and have a new sea route straight from there to Cianwood, and give us a funky coastline with a forest looming in the background. But yeah, not to be a drag, basically gen 7 map design maximized the surface area for exploration compared to the gates worlds of yore.

I think, especially with the final point, that to just have a remix game that has you explore the centeal area first while relegating the rest to a post league would be mildly less interesting then 2 fully realized regions getting each their own game that shows how progess has changed em, both in game and developer wise.

Fates style would be ideal, but could they really handle that? From the development side of things, that would be no different than having one game in two regions since both versions would be designed simultaneously, and it'd have to have a long development period.

 

[Silktree]

Hey, I'm definitely in favor of the Fates approach. I just think that the combined approach would be very interesting in its own right.

We obviously can't tell how long the development cycle has been, assuming we're even right about Kanto sequels. But if it started in early 2015... It should be enough. And it helps that Fates was released that year, too.

I'd definitely double dip on both versions.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I think the games could easily be called FlameGold and AquaSilver or something new entirely like Pokemon Azure or something.

 

[Esserise]

Even without Fates-level differences, the idea of these games would be new and unique enough to where I wouldn't mind a more standard format. Ideally, yes, I'd want them to go with the "essentially two different games" approach, but I'm not expecting that.

 

[Silktree]

At the end of the day, I just want a cohesive storyline that incorporates elements from both regions. So whatever format best accommodates that is what I want.

 

[Esserise]

They haven't used Orange and Purple as names yet, and it would go well with SM's choice of Background colors.

I think the games could easily be called FlameGold and AquaSilver or something new entirely like Pokemon Azure or something.

I think it would have to be something that really emphasizes that the games are sequels, so that people know its something they haven't seen before. Picking two new colors out of a hat just feels lazy, and the ThemeColor model is too associated with remakes. "Red 2/Blue (or Green) 2," for instance, may be simplistic, but it gets the point across loud and clear.

 

[Silktree]

But then I do think the titles should represent Johto, too. But the bigger question is really what the mascots should be, and my theory on that (as Esserise knows) is quite involved.

 

[SinnohEevee]

But then I do think the titles should represent Johto, too. But the bigger question is really what the mascots should be, and my theory on that (as Esserise knows) is quite involved.

One of them being Ho-Oh?

 

[Silktree]

One of them being Ho-Oh?

No. Been there and done that twice.

I could just say what I think the mascots should be... but some background is needed first, so bear with me. We know that Lusamine and Lillie are going to Kanto so that Bill can help cure the former, but what if he can't? What if the neurotoxins in her body are so fatal that she becomes infectious, resulting in an epidemic? And since the whole thing started with Lusamine fusing with Nihilego, an epidemic should affect both people and Pokemon...

So let's start with my idea for the first version mascot: a new Mewtwo form. What if Fuji created Mewtwo not for the sake of science or power (which wouldn't be consistent with his benevolence), but for the purposes of developing a cure to a previous plague that took the lives of Guyana Pokemon (and maybe even people)? And tragically, Fuji's plan never came into fruition since Mewtwo escaped from Cinnabar? Wouldn't it be heroic justice if many years later, Mewtwo finally fulfilled its purpose, albeit under different circumstances?

The idea is that if Mewtwo is strong enough to survive a virus, then its body should be able to develop an antivirus, manifesting as a new form with healing powers. This sounds simple, but the plot could become complicated for two reasons:

1. Fuji is no longer alive to share his knowledge.
2. Mewtwo's trust needs to be gained.

I can see Lusamine being instrumental in unearthing Fuji's research, and Lillie being the key to communicating with Mewtwo. Moral questions would be raised as to whether or not Fuji was justified in "horrifically" splicing Mewtwo's genes to save others. Do the ends justify the means?

Stay tuned for the next part on the second mascot. That theory is even more complicated, to put it mildly.

 

[Esserise]

No matter how much Johto ends up being represented (I'm hoping for equal treatment, but I won't be surprised if it takes a bit of a backseat), I do have to say that it would be really nice to see Mewtwo finally make it to a box cover.

Eat it, Zygarde

But then I do think the titles should represent Johto, too.

That would be nice, though I can't for the life of me think of something that would fit. Pokémon Red: Gold Edition and Pokémon Blue: Silver Edition? But that still sounds kinda remake-y, and the Blue version looks inferior, and it would be easy to wonder where the Silver Edition of Red or the Gold Edition of Blue is. And something like Pokémon Red 2: Gold Edition has a bit too much going on.

Maybe they could do something more subtle and graphical for the Johto affiliation, such as adding a little logo like the Mega Evolution symbol/Primal Orbs/Z-Crystals that connects it to Johto. Or they could make the 2s gold and silver.

 

[Silktree]

Let's remember that Blue and Green have different connotations in Japan and the west... So if the idea is to go for nostalgia, it isn't a perfect solution. Personally, I think that having Mewtwo on the boxart is enough to make "genwunners" elated.

Chrome sounds like a brilliant title since it refers to both colors and to the chromium metal. Unfortunately, I can't think of a good counterpart. So maybe Purple (obviously for Mewtwo) and Orange are the way to go. Each is just one more color, but what's wrong with that?

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

So let's start with my idea for the first version mascot: a new Mewtwo form.

I'm getting sick of Mewtwo forms, and each form is more sickening than the last.
Mewtwo Y- A mew knockoff with a ponytail? I know it unleashes the Mew-ness hidden in it, but surely they could do better?

Mewtwo X- It was sufferable. I'd give it a C2 where D is a fail grade... Mewtwo's whole hype was supposed to be psychic powers, and they added muscle to it? It looks like a creepy scientist.

And the Pokken forms? They're so bad that I cannot find words for them.

I'd prefer a Mew form, since it's the original one that wants warming up. Let Mew unleash it's power and declare that originals are on-par, if not better than the clones.

 

[Silktree]

Mew is very unlikely to be a mascot.

And I hate Mega Mewtwo X and Y, too. Does that mean Mewtwo shouldn't get a good form? On the contrary...

It's like saying that Deoxys shouldn't have received yet another form in Emerald. Actually, it's worse than that since Deoxys had sensible forms to begin with. Mewtwo doesn't yet.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Mew is very unlikely to be a mascot.

And I hate Mega Mewtwo X and Y, too. Does that mean Mewtwo shouldn't get a good form? On the contrary...

It's like saying that Deoxys shouldn't have received yet another form in Emerald. Actually, it's worse than that since Deoxys had sensible forms to begin with. Mewtwo doesn't yet.

Mewtwo has had enough fame, seeing it was granted an important promotion slot in XY, the last generation.

What if we had two mascots in one game? Like Charizard with Typhlosion/Ho-Oh the background for one version and Blastoise and Feraligatr/Lugia in the other one?
I'd prefer the starter mascot over Mewtwo any day.