Kanto/Johto Sequels

[Silktree]

Possible or not, I hate that idea.

I'm sorry, but Mewtwo is just as iconic as Charizard is. So what if it hasn't been a version mascot before? Isn't that a good thing? It has story potential rather than two direct counterparts to overshine... Mew is a mythical, and it would get story exposition via Mewtwo.

I would also hate it if the Mega Mewtwo were used as macots. Those things are as ugly as sin and did nothing to make Mewtwo more popular or interesting.

 

[Esserise]

I can't really fathom that they'd put any Mega Evolution on the cover after glossing over the mechanic's existence in SM. These would still be Gen 7 games, and Mega Evolution is decidedly not a Gen 7 point of interest.

 

[Silktree]

Not to be forceful or anything, but I'd like see some thoughts on my plot ideas.

 

[Ifni400]

Yeah, now I'm thinking that the remakes will be something like 'Ultra Red X' and 'Ultra Red Y', watched over by Charizard's two mega forms. And Green/Western Blue won't actually have anything.

 

[Esserise]

Yeah, now I'm thinking that the remakes will be something like 'Ultra Red X' and 'Ultra Red Y', watched over by Charizard's two mega forms. And Green/Western Blue won't actually have anything.

Yeah that's... not going to happen.

 

[Ifni400]

They wouldn't neglect the second version like that.

 

[Silktree]

They wouldn't neglect the second version like that.

What are you talking about?

 

[Guzma]

It'd be... Interesting to go back to Kanto or Johto, particularly if they follow up on Lillie going to Kanto, but I'd rather see Sinnoh remakes or a new Gen. There's been a bit of a focus on past gens (particularly Gen I, since the all the Alolan variants and the vast majority of the initial Megas in X and Y are based on Gen I Pokémon - the Gen with the second highest amount of Megas, Gen III, only received so many because it got a remake, and even then ORAS included some new Gen I Megas) in the series since Gen VI (likely to address the complaints people had of Gen V's initial games only having new Pokémon until the story is beat), so I could see it happening... But I really wouldn't want it to. I have a lot of nostalgic fondness for Gens I and II, but I don't want the franchise to be too focused on catering to nostalgia.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

I can't really fathom that they'd put any Mega Evolution on the cover after glossing over the mechanic's existence in SM. These would still be Gen 7 games, and Mega Evolution is decidedly not a Gen 7 point of interest.

Not necessarily, an accurate deduction would be that it is decidedly not an Alolan point of interest. The debut games have to let something else shine, that doesn't necessarily mean we won't have future games introducing more Mega Evolutions and expanding on its lore, just as ORAS did.

 

[Silktree]

But I really wouldn't want it to. I have a lot of nostalgic fondness for Gens I and II, but I don't want the franchise to be too focused on catering to nostalgia.

Sequels are not as focused on nostalgia as remakes are. Even someone who is not necessarily a fan of the first two generations could find something interesting in sequels with a much different approach.

DP remakes, on the other hand, can only change so much. I don't see why we need them just a generation after ORAS, let alone if we're talking about this year and the 3DS.

The debut games have to let something else shine, that doesn't necessarily mean we won't have future games introducing more Mega Evolutions and expanding on its lore, just as ORAS did.

So you expect Mega Evolution to go from having no focus in SM to being plastered over the boxart of the next game?

 

[Morningstar]

I think its more likely that they would probably add a few for megas for more recent gens (4, 5 and 6) and a token one for gen 7. Or that they will wait for a few new generations (XY remakes?) before adding megs for the newer mons.

 

[Guzma]

I find it kind of baffling how Mega Evolution was basically swept under the rug by GF during Gen VII. I mean, I'm not a fan of Mega Evolution myself, but it was a key feature of Gen VI. Hopefully they don't decide to lock Z-Crystals behind a future Battle facility like they did with Mega Stones and the Battle Tree in SuMo, especially if future Battle facilities are as cheap as the Battle Tree. The only thing about the Battle Tree I consider worthwhile is that you can team up with YA BOY GUZMA!

 

[Morningstar]

I find it kind of baffling how Mega Evolution was basically swept under the rug by GF during Gen VII. I mean, I'm not a fan of Mega Evolution myself, but it was a key feature of Gen VI. Hopefully they don't decide to lock Z-Crystals behind a future Battle facility like they did with Mega Stones and the Battle Tree in SuMo, especially if future Battle facilities are as cheap as the Battle Tree. The only thing about the Battle Tree I consider worthwhile is that you can team up with YA BOY GUZMA!

Its not just locking it behind the Tree, it was also only including a limited selection (granted, one based on what was actually available in Alola) and the Pokedex entries portraying the concept in a negative light.

 

[Esserise]

and the Pokedex entries portraying the concept in a negative light.

People overemphasize this way too much, in what I have to assume is a misguided attempt to make Pokémon seem more "edgy" and "adult" to themselves. Only a couple of the entries are "dark," and even the main one that people cite - Aerodactyl's (although people constantly insist that all the entries talk about the Mega Evolutions being in pain - they don't; that's only mentioned in Aerodactyl's entry) is just speculative, saying that some people think Mega Aerodactyl is so brutal because it's in pain. But there's nothing to prove that, and frankly, Aerodactyl has long been established as a brutal Pokémon even without Mega Evolution. Most of the Mega Evolution entries are actually fairly generic.

 

[Lufenium]

Not to be forceful or anything, but I'd like see some thoughts on my plot ideas.

You know, I'm feeling it. But I'm a sucker for more Lillie/Lusamine, so what the hell. More Mewtwo isn't a bad thing either. Although I'm curious about your second mascot - wouldn't it (logic dictating) be a different, paired Mewtwo form?

 

[Silktree]

@Lufenian No, it isn't a second Mewtwo form. I don't see what purpose that would serve.

As I explained before, using the same mascot for both versions is a good idea if we're dealing with a 3DS game and a Switch port (in which case the only version differences should involve the systems). But I have quite an elaborate theory in mind regarding a certain mystery from Crystal: the GS Ball. Just what did it contain? The ball started to shake as Kurt was examining it, and even Ilex Forest itself became restless. When the player inserted the ball into the shrine, Celebi descended from the sky, implying that it wasn't already in the ball. So what was? I used to speculate for years that it was an undiscovered legendary, but what if it turned out to be a Celebi from another era or even timeline?

So here is my idea for the solution to the mystery: A corrupted Celebi form. While Mewtwo is a separate species from Mew, it is actually quite comparable to Hoopa Unbound. And since Celebi is Mew's counterpart, a bigger and darker form would be Mewtwo's counterpart. While the new Mewtwo form would be gentle and heroic compared to the violent Mewtwo that we know, the new Celebi form would go in the opposite direction... But why?

There is another interesting fact about the GS Ball distribution: It was unlocked by a feature called the News Machine in the Goldenrod Pokémon Communication Center. There was a nice story to this: A person called Chieko contacted the player through the News Machine. There were three requirements to obtain the GS Ball: First the player had to win against Chieko in a mini-game, but after doing that, Chieko would interrupt the communication by telling the player that they had to collect all 16 badges. Once the player had all badges, they could resume the communication, prompting Chieko to ask them a list of yes/no questions in order to test their "heart as a Pokémon trainer". I had someone translate the questions years ago:

1) Should Pokémon protect and save humans that aren't their trainers? [Yes]
2) If a Pokémon is afraid of a person, is it the person's fault? [Yes]
3) Should a person who loves Pokémon strive for a goal other than being a trainer? [Yes]
4) Is a child a weaker trainer than an adult is? [No]
5) Do you think that the legends from the days of old are all a lie? [No]

If the player answered all five questions correctly, Chieko would recognize them as "a splendid trainer with a strong and pure heart" and tell them they were worthy of the GS Ball. The communication would end, but only upon leaving the center would a nurse approach the player to give them the GS Ball (that part was actually localized, but never used).

The title of Chieko's activity in the News Machine was "a gift that transcends time", obviously in reference to the GS Ball. This implies that the GS Ball came from another time. The future or the past? What about Chieko herself? She curiously described herself as an Apricorn Maker from Azalea Town. With Kurt's granddaughter being called Chie in the Japanese anime, it is safe to say that Game Freak gave her that name, and intended for Chieko to be her adult counterpart. Just what exactly did they have in mind for the backstory, though? And what could the GS Ball have to do with my plague idea?

Imagine that in some timeline (the one of the GB/GBC games) the plague was never stopped and practically every Pokémon died out. With one notable exception: Celebi was able to survive since it was able to "skip" the plague by going through time. At first glance you might call it lucky, but it basically subjected itself to living in a world where it was completely alone, and people eventually forgot about Pokémon. That loneliness turned it confused, angry and desperate to alter time. In other words, it became completely different than before. I will now refer to it as Neo Celebi.

My idea for the games is that while Mewtwo would stop the plague in Kanto, in a mirror universe (the world of the original games) the plague did happen. Neo Celebi is the result of the failed timeline, where Chieko sealed it in the GS Ball and sent it to the past in order to give her world a future, perhaps with a new beginning for Pokémon. However, that action ended up creating a chain of events that evenually led to Neo Celebi not only being released, but also finding a way to the "better" timeline of the new games.

Due to its heart having grown darker throughout eons inside the GS Ball, Neo Celebi would firmly reject Mewtwo as a solution to the plague and opt for a primitive solution: killing off the initial hosts of the plague - humans. The Johto segment of the sequels would be about stopping Neo Celebi. For that, Chieko would be a pivotal character - both in her new incarnation and the Faller version from the original timeline. The latter would take responsibility for her part in making Neo Celebi suffer, and would work with the second Chieko to find an alternative solution to the GS Ball.

Note how intriguing Chieko's first question is. When have the games ever made a point that Pokemon are supposed to protect/save people? It ties into my theory quite well. Basically, Chieko may be saying that what Neo Celebi is trying to do - saving Pokemon at the expense of people - is wrong. People are not to blame for the plague, and cooperation is the key to stopping it.

This theory could also have interesting repercussion for the GBA/DS universe Faller Anabel comes from, but I'll leave that for another post.

 

[SerenaToAlola]

I read through the first twenty pages (but not the last 8 cause I see spoilers) and my opinion is that Kanto and Johto's story as per RBYGSC and their remakes is pretty much done but i'd still like to visit the two regions again (especially with the new graphical capabilities and how much time has passed) so what I think should happen is us following Lillie into Kanto for a sequel to Sun Moon. Honestly though, I have yet to finish my Sun Moon play through so I'll post something more concrete on the story when I'm done with that but here are some things I want to see.

Story wise, I haven't really thought of why we had to look for Lillie but we are basically in Kanto to look for her. Thematically speaking, I really like the idea of the main cause of conflict being an epidemic as suggested by some users. The epidemic could be started by an organization though? This could bring in Mew and Mewtwo's stories. The focus on science would be a nice contrast from all the focus on faith in Alola.

Game play wise, I think it would be really neat if we can have some sort of memory port from our previous game but we are only allowed to start with one Pokemon (i.e. the starter we chose). If you had traded away your starter or don't use it anymore then maybe we will just be given one of the three of your choice but at like some arbitrary level such as 40? IDK if this would make us too overpowered at the beginning though? More experienced gamers can help me figure out how this would work out. Also, I spent a lot on my character's appearance so I'd like to be able to retain that from the get go.

Next I think it'll be cool if we start of in Lavender Town (Narita City irl) and witness Agatha's funeral lmfao. Abit dark maybe but it's the ghost town and she's the ghost expert so... The story begins and we head off to find Bill at Cerulean since that is where we think Lillie would be. A cool idea (to me) that I just had was that maybe Lillie's taken by some secret organization and in order for the organization to tell us where she is, they want us to get some badges to prove our strength? The first gym could be Celadon City with a 30 year old Erika. Misty is skipped because I think it'll be cool if she gets promoted to Elite 4, same for Brock. It'll also be extra cool to have a new fairy gym based on Harajuku or a new electric gym based on Akihabara.

It's also an absolute must for us to go to Johto as well. I don't think Johto is popular enough to warrant it's own game and since Kanto and Johto are so closely related, they might as well just do it together. Perhaps they can write the story such that Bill is actually at Golden Rod with his parents, giving us the opportunity to take an extra cool PokeShinkansen there?​

Altogether we fight 8 gyms across both regions in the main game before heading to the Indigo Plateau for a joint league. There could be more gyms (maybe as DLC?) but they would be for the post-game. Or maybe they can make it such that in order for you to rematch the league you have to get another set of 8 badges?

Something like this would be a lot more exciting imo. Seeing Kanto and Johto with the new graphics + new mechanics like Fairty types/Mega Evolutions/Z-moves without actually having to go through the same old once again with RBY and/or GSC. I think this would be fun!

Mascots could be Mew and Celebi?

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Game play wise, I think it would be really neat if we can have some sort of memory port from our previous game but we are only allowed to start with one Pokemon (i.e. the starter we chose). If you had traded away your starter or don't use it anymore then maybe we will just be given one of the three of your choice but at like some arbitrary level such as 40? IDK if this would make us too overpowered at the beginning though? More experienced gamers can help me figure out how this would work out. Also, I spent a lot on my character's appearance so I'd like to be able to retain that from the get go.

What if the person in question does not have Sun and Moon? Lots of people would be in such a situation.

 

[SerenaToAlola]

What if the person in question does not have Sun and Moon? Lots of people would be in such a situation.

Oh sorry for not being clear. I meant to say that if you have traded your starter away or never had one in the first place then you get to chose one of the three but at an arbitrarily fixed level. Hope this clarifies!

I do feel like this is a pretty crazy idea though but I want to make it seem like it's the same player from SM and not just another person who fumbled their way into Lillie's live.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Oh sorry for not being clear. I meant to say that if you have traded your starter away or never had one in the first place then you get to chose one of the three but at an arbitrarily fixed level. Hope this clarifies!

I do feel like this is a pretty crazy idea though but I want to make it seem like it's the same player from SM and not just another person who fumbled their way into Lillie's live.

I think it would make breezing through the game very easy if you're given a lvl 40 starter. And, for those who prefer to keep unevolved starters, they would need an everstone the moment they start the game, since a single level up may trigger the evolution.

It is not a rule that Lillie may meet a single person in her whole life. People get new friends...