Lillie, Lusamine, Ultra Beasts, Doppelgangers (Spoilers abound)

[Ereshkigal]

Forget about what Lusamine did for a minute. My point is, there's nothing indicating that the Nihilego that she caught and the Nihilego that Guzma interacted with are the same one. Lusamine could very well have gone right after the first one they met. Guzma could then have buggered off and gone at a different one. There's nothing suggesting they're the same Nihilego.

There's nothing to say they're not the same Nihilego either. Whether or not they are comes down to Lusamine's actions.

Neither of Nihilego's Pokédex entries say anything about being able to shapeshift.

No, but the one for Sun does say this: "One of several mysterious Ultra Beasts. People on the street report observing those infested by it suddenly becoming violent."

We've seen in-game that it shape-shifts when it infests people.

This isn't really about how people interpret myths. We're straight-up told that Nihilego was sighted in the past. The game doesn't treat this with any ambiguity whatsoever, and you only run into a snag if you also happen to have crafted an entire theory about the UBs' forms being recent developments based on Mohn's memories. Without that theory - which is hardly endorsed by the game itself - there's no issue, because Nihilego looks how it always looked, and so of course they're able to verify that it was also sighted in the past.

If we're to ignore one theory not endorsed by the game itself, we should also ignore another. The game itself does not endorse the theory that Lillie's outfit is based on Nihilego. It provides items that can be interpreted that way, but the game at no time actually endorses it.

It's not that different. It's still a wide-rimmed hat, just a bit frillier.

Nihilego's head is actually shaped like an old maid's cap. If you want to see the particular style, go rewatch Pirates of the Caribbean; they feature an excellent example in that movie. That, and the raggedly style of the Pokemon's lower edges, kinda suggests a lower-class maid girl for its basis.

Lillie is none of those things. Her outfit is not raggedly, and her hat is entirely the wrong shape for the Pokemon's head. Lillie's outfit is also sleeveless, whereas Nihilego is depicted with sleeve-like tentacles higher on its body.

It's literally only a similarity in appearance if the only thing you do is look at the lower body or the silhouette.

 

[Esserise]

We're starting to go in circles of subjectivity, so I hope you don't mind if I just respond to this bit.

No, but the one for Sun does say this: "One of several mysterious Ultra Beasts. People on the street report observing those infested by it suddenly becoming violent."

We've seen in-game that it shape-shifts when it infests people.

That's true, but again, tethers the shapeshifting to when it's merged with other people. If it can indeed only change shape when it merges with people (which is the only context in which we're shown it changing shape), then it would have always had its "Lillie-esque" appearance, and Lillie wouldn't be the source of it. That also dovetails with its appearances in the distant past being recognizable as the same creature that appeared in modern times.

 

[Ereshkigal]

We're starting to go in circles of subjectivity, so I hope you don't mind if I just respond to this bit.

Yeah, we're hitting the point where I think we have pretty much discussed it to death.

That's true, but again, tethers the shapeshifting to when it's merged with other people. If it can indeed only change shape when it merges with people (which is the only context in which we're shown it changing shape), then it would have always had its "Lillie-esque" appearance, and Lillie wouldn't be the source of it. That also dovetails with its appearances in the distant past being recognizable as the same creature that appeared in modern times.

And this is the point where I become frustrated with the creature.

The part about it infesting people indicates this has happened multiple times, possibly in the past as well. Which leaves open a whole headache of possibilities about depictions. Would people have mostly seen it when it wasn't infesting someone, or when it was?

If when it wasn't, then there is a strong argument for the appearance to be consistent between now and prior depictions.

If when it was, then we have the problem that likely all of the depictions of it would be depictions of what it looks like when it infests someone.

It literally would have taken one sentence of text to clear this up.

And that's still not even answering the possibility of if it can shape-shift without infesting people.

 

[Esserise]

And this is the point where I become frustrated with the creature.

The part about it infesting people indicates this has happened multiple times, possibly in the past as well. Which leaves open a whole headache of possibilities about depictions. Would people have mostly seen it when it wasn't infesting someone, or when it was?

If when it wasn't, then there is a strong argument for the appearance to be consistent between now and prior depictions.

If when it was, then we have the problem that likely all of the depictions of it would be depictions of what it looks like when it infests someone.

It literally would have taken one sentence of text to clear this up.

And that's still not even answering the possibility of if it can shape-shift without infesting people.

Take it for what it's worth, but me personally, I thought the UBs' Pokédex entries all sounded like recent documentation. The consistent use of the terms "report(s)" and "witnesses" make them sound to me like information that's being collected by the International Police in the course of their investigations. Indeed, witness reports. So, you know how Looker keeps barging back into the hotel rooms, shouting about disaster and saying that he's gotten word of another beast appearing? I think the Pokédex entries are based on those tips he's receiving. Given that all but two of the UBs haven't been seen until recently, there wouldn't be any information about the majority of them so to me it makes sense that they'd use the police reports to fill in the gaps.

Obviously, Nihilego can be a different situation, but my brain went ahead and connected the "witnesses on the street" who saw it with the police investigations, as with all the other beasts.

 

[Ereshkigal]

Take it for what it's worth, but me personally, I thought the UBs' Pokédex entries all sounded like recent documentation. The consistent use of the terms "report(s)" and "witnesses" make them sound to me like information that's being collected by the International Police in the course of their investigations. Indeed, witness reports. So, you know how Looker keeps barging back into the hotel rooms, shouting about disaster and saying that he's gotten word of another beast appearing? I think the Pokédex entries are based on those tips he's receiving. Given that all but two of the UBs haven't been seen until recently, there wouldn't be any information about the majority of them so to me it makes sense that they'd use the police reports to fill in the gaps.

Obviously, Nihilego can be a different situation, but my brain went ahead and connected the "witnesses on the street" who saw it with the police investigations, as with all the other beasts.

My first instinct is to agree and simply say all of this is modern information entirely. And, it probably is.

But... How was Nihilego acting the last time it visited the Pokeworld? What would the myths say about how it acted when it was spotted in the past?

I think we both agree that its behavior would not have changed that much.

 

[KaylaBaraonda]

Nihilego acts like a little girl but not every little girl is like Lillie, some may be like Moon, Lana, Mallow, Acerola, Mina, Hapu, Zossie, Shauna, Bonnie, Emma, Serena, Hilda, Bianca, Iris, Roxie, Rosa, Yancy, Dawn, Mira, Marley, Maylene, Candice, Caitlin, May, Zinnia, Roxanne, Phoebe, Anabel, Greta, Kris, Lyra, Whitney, Janine, Leaf, Misty, or any of the other little girls in the Pokéverse. There are many Nihilegos and some may act more girly than others or more childlike than others.

Lillie's outfit is only barely Aether-themed. Yes they are all wearing white with some accent colors, but. All of Aether stuff is white-colored, it is their theme color, so their uniforms are white and Lusamine also dresses her children in white clothes. OFC it's labcoats VS generic work jumpsuits VS a futuristic cocktail dress VS a regular sundress, but the uniforms still look cohesive to each other. Lillie's outfit does'nt really look like an Aether uniform, it looks like a store-bought outfit. It is Aether FOundation-y just as much as Gladion's outfit is Team Skull-y.

So propably initially Lillie and Gladion were just wearing white. Then Lusamine got drugged on Nihilego. So Lusamine saw Nihilego as the perfect thing and thus dressed Lillie and Gladion as it. But they would still be wearing white if Nihilego were not there. Because Lusamine, Mohn, and Lillie all seem to like wearing white\light clothing. Gladion is a rebel so he wears dark clothing instead.

And for Lusamine and Guzma resembling Pheromosa and Xurxitree - that's just the designers drawing parallels.

Nihilego - Lillie
Buzzwole - Gladion
Pheromosa - Lusamine
Xurxitree - Guzma
Celesteela - the revitalize machine from the AZ backstory
Kartana - Diantha
Guzzlord - Hala

A lot of rival\main NPC characters seem to have designs that parallel Pokémon.
Lillie - Nihilego and Alola Ninetales, Gladion - Buzzwole
N - Zoroark
Barry - Floatzel, Uxie and Giratina
Wally - Gardevoir
Silver - Sneasel