Preview M20: I Choose You!

[Shadao]

One has to remember that a good amount of trailer footage shown will not likely be in the movie at all. It is likely made to reintroduce and re-hype Ash Ketchum in brand new way, which it does it effectively.

 

[Silktree]

It kinda looks like when ash is going on a new adventure that isn't his first. This wouldn't explain the pokéball though

That wouldn't make sense. The only gaps in the timeline are DP-BW and XY-SM, and suffice to say that it was never implied anything important happened in either case. And no one in their right mind would use the title for the first episode of the anime for anything but a reboot or a retelling.

 

[Thommy_99]

That wouldn't make sense. The only gaps in the timeline are DP-BW and XY-SM, and suffice to say that it was never implied anything important happened in either case. And no one in their right mind would use the title for the first episode of the anime for anything but a reboot or a retelling.

So it will probably an AU.

 

[SammyW27]

Just some reminders...

Dogasu's Backpack (1-1-2017) - Pocket Monsters The Movie "I Choose You!"

Though I'm sure most of us know to be wary anyway.
Ever get the feeling the Movie Division is just making things up as they go along???

Arceus knows they'll try to shoe-horn SOMETHING from Gen 7 into this...

 

[Shadao]

Just some reminders...

Dogasu's Backpack (1-1-2017) - Pocket Monsters The Movie "I Choose You!"

Though I'm sure most of us know to be wary anyway.
Ever get the feeling the Movie Division is just making things up as they go along???

Arceus knows they'll try to shoe-horn SOMETHING from Gen 7 into this...

The thing is about this particular movie is that it's specifically called "I Choose You!" That title is from the very first episode of Pokémon, and given that it will be released on the 20th anniversary of the anime, that is not something like "The Cocoon of Destruction and Diancie" where the typical formula is Mythical Pokémon plus Legendary. Not to mention that the formula is no longer making them any money when you look at the previous three movies. It's quite telling when the TV show XY&Z's Team Flare arc gets more attention than the movie.

I think it's quite possible that the deceiving teaser was the one showing all the generation starters and ending with the Gen 7 starters, implying that the next movie focuses on Alola when really it's going back to the past. Just food for thought.

 

[GuyWhoTellsTruth]

Honestly, I'm not interested in this for the most part, especially if it's going to be a retread of the OS, since we've already seen that (and without Takeshi Shudo at the helm, to me, it wouldn't feel genuinely right since he created these characters in the first place). I would've rather seen a Sun & Moon Movie with Ash, Mallow, Sophocles, Lana, Lillie, Kiawe, etc. than a rehash of something, especially if this ends up being handled poorly (which I sadly fear could be the case).

And the dub makes me even less likely to be enthused about this since it'll undoubtedly feature the TPCi crew (I've accepted long ago there is zero hope for Veronica Taylor or any of the others to return as Ash & co. at this point, much as I wish it wasn't the reality of things here), so any reason for me to check it out in English is very much negated by that alone- I'm also worried about music replacement still being a thing for M20's dub, coming off of M17-19's dubs, so again, I don't have much reason to be excited about this.

 

[Shadao]

Honestly, I'm not interested in this for the most part, especially if it's going to be a retread of the OS, since we've already seen that (and without Takeshi Shudo at the helm, to me, it wouldn't feel genuinely right since he created these characters in the first place). I would've rather seen a Sun & Moon Movie with Ash, Mallow, Sophocles, Lana, Lillie, Kiawe, etc. than a rehash of something, especially if this ends up being handled poorly (which I sadly fear could be the case).

And the dub makes me even less likely to be enthused about this since it'll undoubtedly feature the TPCi crew (I've accepted long ago there is zero hope for Veronica Taylor or any of the others to return as Ash & co. at this point, much as I wish it wasn't the reality of things here), so any reason for me to check it out in English is very much negated by that alone- I'm also worried about music replacement still being a thing for M20's dub, coming off of M17-19's dubs, so again, I don't have much reason to be excited about this.

While I do see Takeshi Shudo's intent, I do feel he's a flawed writer in many retrospect. Namely he tends to put more focus and care on Team Rocket rather than Ash Ketchum, the main protagonist. As long as his themes are used, I feel fine with a new writer tackling a timeless tale that really deserves to be in the spotlight moreso than any other story of Pokémon. "Pokémon-I Choose You!" is the kind of story that is cinema worthy, something that a new generation of Pokémon fans needs to see to understand why Ash and Pikachu are so important.

A Sun & Moon movie is a safe move but unless it is willing to integrate itself with the main series, it really has no reason to exist other than be a big budget filler episode. The main anime has caught up with the movie-quality animation, to the point that the Team Flare climax is more of a movie than the actual XY movies. The main appeal to see a Pokémon movie, see battles without stock backgrounds and be absolutely fluid, has dwindled, and stories involving Legendaries became less of an event to see given the amount of Legendaries currently available as well as the anime no longer being afraid to use them in the main storyline (if Johto saga was airing today, I would bet that the GS Ball would have not been abandoned in favor for the fourth movie). From a marketing perspective, the tired formula will simply not do. And thus, they must try something worth gaining attention. I did not bother with Magerena movie and I won't bother with the Sun & Moon movie, especially if it's going to be unrelated to the main show.

The most curious aspect of the teaser is that Logo redesign. It's brand new and the event Ash-Pikachu proves that they hadn't forgotten about the original logo design at all. Of course, it might be deceiving as Dogasu would warn, but I feel that the logo is an indication that this is not the same Ash from the original show (and to an extent, Sun and Moon). And thus, they can do new things that original did not do. And that has more drawing power than simply being a retelling of a timeless story.

As for the dub, I would really wish iTPC would realize the importance of the first anime episode and what it means to old fans, and get the old voice cast again. Heck, I would want that to happen regardless if it's official or not. There needs to be more interactivity between fans and the dubbing company.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Just some reminders...

Dogasu's Backpack (1-1-2017) - Pocket Monsters The Movie "I Choose You!"

To be fair, Zorua movie was misleading yes, but it's not outright a lie. We just don't know that it was a pokemon that changed into Satoshi's form.

 

[ii kanji]

While I do see Takeshi Shudo's intent, I do feel he's a flawed writer in many retrospect. Namely he tends to put more focus and care on Team Rocket rather than Ash Ketchum, the main protagonist.

That's a flaw?!

 

[ScienceRules]

Is this the same Dogasu who we sometimes see here?

To be fair, Zorua movie was misleading yes, but it's not outright a lie. We just don't know that it was a pokemon that changed into Satoshi's form.

Exactly. That other poster promoting Diancie and the Cocoon of Destruction was also misinterpreted. It was just the first movie in the generation where Mega Evolution was introduced! In no way did it suggest that Yveltal would have to fight an army of mega-evolved 'mons. But that Entei movie was very misleading, along with the Jirachi one.

 

[Max1996]

I think it's quite possible that the deceiving teaser was the one showing all the generation starters and ending with the Gen 7 starters, implying that the next movie focuses on Alola when really it's going back to the past. Just food for thought.

Was that not in commemoration of Pokemon's 20th anniversary?

 

[Shadao]

Was that not in commemoration of Pokemon's 20th anniversary?

Oh yes, it was to commemorate the long 20 years of Pokémon. But as we see at the beginning of this thread, many assumed the next movie would be about Alola and the Ultra Beasts as tradition goes. The last scene featuring the Alola starters animated seems to confirm that and the only reason to doubt is that Alola is not the best way to celebrate the anime's 20th anniversary, especially with how rebootish the Sun & Moon anime feels. Hence why I say that might have been the traditional deceiving teaser that Dogasu was talking about.

That's a flaw?!

Based on his novels, Shudo had a very interesting backstory in regards to Ash and family, namely his father. He grew up believing that his father was the greatest trainer until he bought a computer and tried to find him on the trainer list, and discovered that his mother lied and he was really a good-for-nothing dad. Which would explain a lot of Ash's hot-headedness and immaturity in the early seasons, and it would have made Ash into a more unique Shoenn protagonist compare to the others. But for some reason, Shudo never explored that storyline in the anime, and I still recall him saying that Ash is the vanilla stock protagonist being surrounded by more interesting characters and their quirks, namely Team Rocket. At least, that's my impression. A focus on Team Rocket is nice, but not at the expense of neglecting the main protagonist's own journey.

 

[CrystaI]

Based on Shudo Takeshi's blog, he seems to wanted to give TRio a more important role than just comedic villain producing drama for the day. Shall there be a "final episode" about a war outbreak between pokemon and human as he fantasized, he wanted to make TRio rather than Ash Ketchum the protagonist be the hero to resolve this gigantic crash.

On the other side, within his blog, unfortunately he seldom talks about Ash nor the background story of Ash, nor about any potential story or fantasy imagination centered around him. Within his blog, I don't feel any of his "love" towards Ash as a character, he didn't seem to appreciate the fact that Ash Ketchum is the protagonist of the Pokemon Anime. As a series constructor and head scenario-writer, that is a major problem if the one taking responsibility doesn't take the protagonist seriously, rather trying to diminish the importance and role of protagonist to that equivalent to just a supporting character.

 

[FANG-TAN]

Although I certainly believe a head writer needs to be invested in their protagonist (look at what happened in Digimon Adventure 02 with Daisuke lacking development completely for the sake of Ken's character, or Boo Saga Gohan from Dragon Ball whose journey as the new protagonist was dropped abruptly towards the end because it's easier for Toriyama to write escalating conflicts when battle-hungry Goku is the protagonist he didn't feel he was "fit" for the role), I do appreciate when the antagonists are also multi-dimensional, which were the highlights of M01 and M03 that made them so great, in my opinion. Prior to Generation VII, I always thought Mewtwo, Mii, and Plasma Gang (under N) were some of the more interesting antagonists Pocket Monsters had to offer, and two of those came from the anime of all things, which would be surprising to me nowadays.

Other than that, he did seem to make an honest effort to make every character seem human and believable at the very least, even if he favored Satoshi a lot less than the Rocket Trio. In an ideal scenario, the staff at OLM would have other writers on the team balance out the pros and cons of Shudou's own personal taste within his scenario, people who are more invested in Satoshi. Unfortunately we all know that wasn't the case, especially since the anime series is stuck in limbo, rather than improving upon his ideas, a formula was decided in favor. They are invested in Satoshi, but invested in him as a malleable figure that can be placed in any situation, which I think is much poor in comparison to whatever Shudou had planned (a conclusion is better than no conclusion, really).

If this is going to be something in vein of the new Eva movies - which are pretty derisive since 3.33, but the general basis of a reboot film is what I mean - a full retelling of Satoshi's journey spanning a couple or more movies, the ideal would be that the antagonists and the protagonists are developed multi-dimensional characters. Satoshi's background and basic personality per Shudou isn't bad at all, it makes him stand out from just being a standard shounen protagonist, but yes, they should fully flesh it out during his journey. The movie turning Satoshi into one of the better-written Reds in derivative media would certainly be a treat and certainly something that would flip the fanbase on its side.

But for some reason, Shudo never explored that storyline in the anime

It was quite likely some kind of limitation. Plenty of Shudou's ideas that he put into the novelizations (which he had more freedom with), such as Hanako's restaurant or Takeshi's siblings being fathered by different men, didn't seem to make it into the anime or at least retconned as time went by (the latter especially). Though, Satoshi's backstory from the novels did have one reference in episode 2, but as you said, was never fully explored in detail within the original anime series.

 

[Shadao]

It was quite likely some kind of limitation. Plenty of Shudou's ideas that he put into the novelizations (which he had more freedom with), such as Hanako's restaurant or Takeshi's siblings being fathered by different men, didn't seem to make it into the anime or at least retconned as time went by (the latter especially). Though, Satoshi's backstory from the novels did have one reference in episode 2, but as you said, was never fully explored in detail within the original anime series.

I understand why these minor details weren't included, but when you consider how much the original series gave background to Misty, Brock, James and Meowth (Jessie's backstory has been explored in the radio drama and implied in Johto saga), it really makes it odd that Ash feels the most bare bone. Heck, by the time they explored why Ash wants to become a Pokémon Trainer, it was during XY&Z, nearly 20 years after he started his journey. I felt Shudo could have at least try to explore more of Ash's backstory in the main series, like inserting a flashback scene of his early childhood during the "Snow Way Out" episode. And given how much fans want to know about Ash's father as well as how other rivaling shows (such as Digimon) dealt with characters, it's worth a shot.

At the very least, I hope the producers and director realize the perfect opportunity they have with this movie.

 

[ii kanji]

Based on his novels, Shudo had a very interesting backstory in regards to Ash and family, namely his father. He grew up believing that his father was the greatest trainer until he bought a computer and tried to find him on the trainer list, and discovered that his mother lied and he was really a good-for-nothing dad.

Well kind of, but not exactly (and the translation comes across as a lot more cynical with far less edgelord potential):

Spoiler

It was the day he got his first computer.
He was staring at the latest model of PC while Hanako spoke.
“Hey son, I'm talking to you... Your dad and grandpa are amazing Pokémon Trainers.”
Of course, Satoshi had always thought so.
“Hey, mom. I wanna know. What's dad like? ... What kind of person was grandpa?”
This was the answer Hanako decided to give little Satoshi.
“Your dad and grandpa are surreal trainers who could defeat even Masara Ookido...”
“Surreal?”
It was a word he wasn't familiar with.
“Beyond reality... Super real.”
“So they're like super awesome.”
“I guess.”
But on the day he got his computer, the illusions he had about his father and grandfather were shattered. And the following occurred...
Hanako lowered her head as she spoke to little Satoshi.
“Sorry. I lied to you...”
Hanako spoke to Satoshi whose jaw hung wide open.
“Lied...”
“Surreal trainers. Beyond reality, throwing logic to the curb, super real, surpassing reality... It's all lies... I give up.”
Satoshi was the one giving up.
Hanako asked the following.
“When you start using your computer, you're going to go online...”
“Yeah.”
Satoshi nodded.
“And of course, the internet has information regarding Pokémon, so you're going to try and learn more about your dad and grandpa.”
“Yeah. That's right.”
“But, you won't find anything. Probably.”
“Why not?”
“Because I lied...”
“Eh...”
“It's not a lie that dad and grandpa did try to become Pokémon Trainers... That's the truth... It's absolute fact that they left on a journey...”
“Yeah.”
“But... To say that they had any success as trainers...”
“Yeah.”
“It's a lie. Probably.”
“A lie?”
“Your dad and grandpa have never made it into the top 10,000 lists in any of the magazines.”
“Yeah, they haven't.”
“I know that's never bothered you, Satoshi... The top 10,000 is made up of people who compete in the annual league tournaments. Only Pokémon Master class trainers make it to the big league... There's plenty of great trainers whose names never make it on the list.”
“Yeah.”
“But, it might be a problem if you search for them on the internet.”
“Internet?”
“Yeah, but on the internet, you can easily obtain a list of all the officially registered Pokémon Trainers in the world... If you're officially registered, your name is on the list... Even the names of deceased trainers are listed, there's at least a billion names on the list.”
“There's a list? ... I never knew that.”
“There is. Anyway... With a computer, even with a billion names, it would be easy to search for dad and grandpa on the list. That's why... before you try to search for them, I'd like to tell you... dad and grandpa aren't on the list.”
“Why not?”
“Because, dad and grandpa aren't professionals yet. Or rather, they haven't made it to the point they can be considered professionals.”
“Hmm.”
A long silence hung between Satoshi and Hanako.
“What are they doing? Dad and grandpa.”
Hanako shrugged.
“No idea. They left to become trainers, but their names still aren't on the list... I guess... they're just failures.”
“Failures... huh.”
Satoshi repeated Hanako's words.
Hanako didn't like the gloomy mood.
Hence why she then spoke up.
“But you aren't a failure, Satoshi. So don't you worry about dad or grandpa... okay. Whether you become a trainer or not is your own decision.”
Satoshi muttered quietly.
“How lame.”
“It is lame. Totally lame. Really lame.”
Hanako smiled.
She was relieved that Satoshi wasn't too shocked by this revelation.
Satoshi's feelings were just as he'd said... “How lame” he thought.
Maybe if he'd known them it'd mean something, but he had only ever seen his dad and grandpa in photos.
Neither of them really meant anything to five year old Satoshi.
Whether his father and grandfather were decent trainers or not made no difference in his feelings about becoming a Pokémon Trainer.
However if he'd found out on the internet, or even when he was a little older, it may have come as a shock.
Thinking about it later, having the pressure of his father and grandfather's failure on him was a somewhat odd form of encouragement.
For example, there was this guy named Shigeru.
Shigeru Ookido was the same age as Satoshi.
He was the grandson of the Pokémon researcher Professor Ookido, who was the grandson of the grandson of Masara Ookido whose statue stood in the town square.
He was a self centered jerk who looked down on others just because he was a member of the Ookido family, his lineage was all he had going for him, yet he was still full of himself.
Since his grandfather's brother was the mayor, he didn't go to the small primary school in town, he deliberately enrolled into a school in the next town over. Every day he had a two hour round trip out of Masara Town.
... It must be tough having to live up to your ancestors.
That's what Satoshi thought sometimes in regards to Shigeru.
... On the other hand, with a father and grandfather who were complete failures... it's quite possible that Shigeru thought that Satoshi... was quite pitiable himself.

On the other side, within his blog, unfortunately he seldom talks about Ash nor the background story of Ash, nor about any potential story or fantasy imagination centered around him. Within his blog, I don't feel any of his "love" towards Ash as a character, he didn't seem to appreciate the fact that Ash Ketchum is the protagonist of the Pokemon Anime.

They are invested in Satoshi, but invested in him as a malleable figure that can be placed in any situation, which I think is much poor in comparison to whatever Shudou had planned (a conclusion is better than no conclusion, really).

Is this not the crux of the issue? I have to admit that my view of Shudou is that he was a bit of a crackpot genius, far too clever for my own lowest-common-denominator intelligence to always understand. If you look at the episodes he wrote, they're either amazing or downright terrible because they are too abstract. It's clear from his blogs that he hated how many restrictions were placed on his artistic license and I'm sure I recall reading that Satoshi was a cookie-cutter protagonist as per the instructions of his supervisors. I feel like he invested more in the TRio because he had the freedom to do whatever he wanted with them.

It was quite likely some kind of limitation. Plenty of Shudou's ideas that he put into the novelizations (which he had more freedom with), such as Hanako's restaurant or Takeshi's siblings being fathered by different men, didn't seem to make it into the anime or at least retconned as time went by (the latter especially). Though, Satoshi's backstory from the novels did have one reference in episode 2, but as you said, was never fully explored in detail within the original anime series.

Do we know anything about the timelines regarding these novels and the anime? A part of me wonders how much was left out due to the limitations imposed on Shudou by the producers, or whether some of what he wrote in the novel was in fact developed in retrospect.

ETA: All in all, I feel like Shudou's handling of Satoshi is almost a moot point - who here has enjoyed his character from OS & onwards regardless? Whatever anyone thinks of the construction of his endless arc (which is after all not in the hands of the writers), he is a really well loved hero across generations of fans.

 

[SammyW27]

Also...here's another thing that makes ponder all this...

Do we really want Kanto adventures for a THIRD time? (4th if you count the Battle Frontier in AG (5th you count Generations))

 

[Shadao]

Also...here's another thing that makes ponder all this...

Do we really want Kanto adventures for a THIRD time? (4th if you count the Battle Frontier in AG (5th you count Generations))

In terms of new anime or shows that don't feature Ash, no. I do not want to go back to Kanto as you have various other regions to explore. But in regards this movie, of course yes. It's been 3 years since we had anything related to Kanto (and not some casual comment about Tauros), and 10 years since we had any proper adventures in Kanto. Unlike the games, where they would remind us that Gen I exists and it was the best like no generation ever was, the anime has been veering away from its original roots for so long that even an episode talking about Ash's Butterfree would get fans hyped.

Origins and Generations may have been a nice treat for gamers who grew up with the original but for many others like myself, it's not really the same without Ash and friends being our protagonists. Many have recognize the flaws with the original series and many would like to see how a reboot/revision would handle Ash's original adventures in light of all the advancement for both games and anime. How much would have changed? Would Ash battle the Gym Leaders properly? Would Ho-Oh be more prominent this time around? Would Giovanni take center spotlight? These are the questions that cause many fans such as @FANG-TAN to tackle the anime story in their own way. In fact, I would say that is the reason why many are willingly to give this movie a watch. What has changed and what remains the same?

 

[kantoskies]

It's kind of fascinating, really, that a lot of Shudou's ideas for how he wanted the anime's world to be like are some of the most engaging and interesting things I've seen from this franchise, yet the Kanto saga we actually got was probably the weakest in regard to over-arching narratives and character development.

Anyways, I've pretty much given up on the dub at this point, but I wish they would at least get Rachael Lillis to reprise her role as Misty. I'm not one of those "SOVA" people or anything, believe me, but it would be a nice treat to have her play Misty again. I think the only times Michelle Knotz has done Misty was the Mirage special ten years ago and that one BW episode where Misty had like two lines. So if they did get Lillis to come back as Misty it wouldn't be like taking a character away from Knotz that she had worked on for years. Though if they brought in Lillis to reprise Jessie you wouldn't see me complaining, I'd be in the theatres on day 1

 

[Silktree]

CoroCoro doesn't have anything new.

A translation would still be nice, though.