Maniacal Engineer's Crackpot Theory Corner: The Distortion World and Ultra Space are the Same

[Maniacal Engineer]

Greetings, once again, Pokemon fans! It is I, your resident crackpot conspiracy theorist, Maniacal Engineer. Today's theory is an interesting one that I started thinking about the instant I encountered Ultra Space in my playthrough of Pokemon Sun. As the thread title suggests, today I will be examining the theory of Ultra Space being just another name for the Distortion World.
Let's first take a look at images of both locations.

Spoiler: Ultra Space

Spoiler: The Distortion World

At a glance, though they do look distinctly different, especially considering the "lighting" in both locations being vastly different, remember that we haven't seen much of Ultra Space, and we've only seen the Distortion World so far on the DS platform from a top down perspective...so to speak. Additionally "lighting" in these locations is fairly relative, anyway, considering that both are outside the "normal" bounds of space/time.

Our time in Ultra Space is very limited in Pokemon Sun/Moon, so we never get to truly experience the "mechanics" of Ultra Space, like we do in the Distortion World. There are no boulders for us to push down bottomless, ever looping holes. No upside down waterfalls to "climb." Just a single corridor to walk through.
However, in that limited time that we spend in Ultra Space, there are some similarities to the Distortion World to note. First and foremost, the only way to get there is via portal, or "Ultra Wormhole." The Ultra Wormhole is formed by creating cracks in time and space. Sound familiar? Giratina first appears in the "normal" universe when Cyrus attempts to capture and control Dialga and Palkia. Its mere presence warps Spear Pillar and threatens to collapse all of time and space.
Next up, both the Distortion World and Ultra Space have bizarre looking plants and foliage. In the Distortion World, these strange plants mysteriously appear and disappear. In Ultra Space, it is the Pokemon themselves that mysteriously appear and disappear.

Of course, there are differences between the Distortion World and Ultra Space. Besides the aesthetics, most of these differences can be attributed to the short period of time and lack of exploration of Ultra Space. However, there is one very glaring difference. The Distortion World only contained one Pokemon, Giratina, while Ultra Space is chock full of Pokemon. I will freely admit that part of the reason I crafted this theory is because I felt that it was a big oversight to exclude Pokemon from the Distortion World, and I would like to believe that this is Nintendo's way of making up for that.

That said, this would be a poor theory indeed if there was no evidence to back it up. So what else do we know about Ultra Space and the Ultra Wormholes? We know that anybody and anything that goes through an Ultra Wormhole emits a specific energy that the Ultra Beasts, when trapped in the Mega Evolution Universe, "hone" in on as a potential means for returning home. Throughout the years, a number of people, including Tower Tycoon Anabel, have "fallen" through Ultra Wormholes and landed in the Mega Evolution Universe.
According to an interpretation of Many Worlds Theory and String Theory, every universe gives off its own signature "background radiation." This certainly explains the energy that the Ultra Beasts hone in on as a means of getting home. They can sense the frequency of their home universe calling to them from these so-called "Fallers." However, there is a problem.
Presumably, Anabel comes from the "normal" universe, where Pokemon Emerald took place. I'm not sure about you, but I don't remember encountering an area like Ultra Space in my travels in Pokemon Red, Blue, Yellow, Gold, Silver, Crystal, Ruby, Sapphire, Emerald, FireRed, LeafGreen, Diamond, Pearl, Platinum, HeartGold, SoulSilver, Black, White, Black 2, or White 2. Now, theoretically this could be because we haven't completely explored that universe and there are still "untamed, wild" areas. On the other hand, what proof do we have that all Fallers come from that one universe? None whatsoever. And yet, no matter what their origin universe, the Ultra Beasts still are drawn to them.
How could this be? If each universe has its own signature background radiation, then how can the Ultra Beast still detect their own universe's background radiation from any Faller, no matter what universe they came from?
In the Doctor Who episode Army of Ghosts, the Doctor encounters a Void Ship, he describes the Void as: "The Space between dimensions...containing absolutely nothing. No light, no dark, no up, no down, no life, no time. Without end."
While we must certainly adapt this concept from Doctor Who into the Pokemon Universe, there is a similar place described in the games. The Distortion World is a place where time doesn't flow and space is unstable, without end. It is the antimatter world, the shadow world, to the "normal" universe. But what if, similar to the Void in Doctor Who, the Distortion World served the purpose of the "space between dimensions?"
It is the bridge, the connector, between the "normal" universe, the Mega Evolution universe, and any other universes that might be out there. Anything that travels between dimensions must, therefore, travel through the Distortion World, to get between the "gaps" in space-time.
Assuming the Distortion World is Ultra Space, this would explain perfectly how the Ultra Beasts can find traces of their home universe's background radiation no matter where the Faller originated from.

As always, this is just a fun theory I came up with, and it is meant to be taken as such. I know there are those of you who would ask me why I bother coming up with these ridiculous theories. To you I ask in return: "why not?"
Here are some questions to consider to get conversation rolling. You don't have to answer all of them or any of them in your post as long as you're staying on topic and within global forum rules.

• Do you agree or disagree with this theory?
• Outside of the main series Pokemon Games, what evidence can you find that either supports or disproves this theory?
• What other in-game evidence can you find that supports this theory?
• What in-game evidence disproves this theory?
• What are some of your theories about the Fallers, where they come from, and how they "fell" through the Ultra Wormholes?
• If Ultra Space and the Distortion World are one and the same, where were the Ultra Beasts during the events of Platinum?
• What other types of theories would you like to see discussed in a future ME's Crackpot Theory Corner?

 

[NMLewis]

I did immediately think of Distortion World when I saw the plants of Ultra Space. And there's too little seen of either world to rule out them being the same.

I like the idea that it could be the same world, and that where Giratina appeared was the area on the reverse side of Sinnoh, while the Ultra Space area was on the "other side of the spatial fabric" where Alola is.... if that makes any kind of sense. Although the game also has you crossing into a mirror universe or something from the Alola wormhole, so... Well anyway, it's a fun thing to think about.

 

[Maniacal Engineer]

There are definitely some aesthetic resemblances between the Distortion World and Ultra Space. The physical similarities are actually how this theory got its start.
I then started thinking about it scientifically, and it seems to work out.
That said, I do realize that I'm using "real world science," which may or may not actually apply to the Pokémon World, but it is definitely interesting and fun to consider.

 

[Zexy]

Do you agree or disagree with this theory?
Unsure as of now, leaning towards disagreeing though. Ever since Zinnia confirmed the parallel universes in ORAS, I've had lots of questions. One of the basic ones was whether there is only one Distortion World for the entire universe or infinite (one per parallel universe). I still haven't decided on that; if I end up going with the idea that there are infinite, this theory is completely out. Even if I decide to accept there is only one Distortion World, though, I don't think Ultra Space is the same place as it.
Outside of the main series Pokemon Games, what evidence can you find that either supports or disproves this theory?
I can't think of something outside the main series games, it's in the main series where this kind of lore is decided.
What other in-game evidence can you find that supports this theory?
The only similarities I can think of is how the entrances to both worlds look like rifts, and how Ultra Space seems to have some distortions (Nihilego/Lusamine appearing/disappearing) similar to Distortion World.
What in-game evidence disproves this theory?
I think someone in Platinum stated that Giratina is the only Pokemon in the Distortion World.
What are some of your theories about the Fallers, where they come from, and how they "fell" through the Ultra Wormholes?
Fallers are people who entered Ultra Wormholes (most likely voluntarily, for whatever reason) and stayed in Ultra Space for too long (at this point I'll add that time should be flowing in Ultra Space, unlike Distortion World) that their mind was twisted. They start forgetting most things about the world they came from and seem to be able to survive for as long as needed without needs like food in there. So in the end, the only thing that remains is their desire to leave that world, wandering around all the time until they find a way to get out. When they do indeed find another Wormhole and end up in a regular universe through it, they retain the amnesia. Those found by the International Police are called Fallers.

As for my actual theories about Fallers; ORAS Looker could've been a Faller because of his amnesia.
Anabel is obviously a Faller too, and there was another Faller some years ago that was killed by a Guzzlord.
Where it gets interesting, though, is how Anabel became a Faller, why the Battle Frontier/Resort ends up being that involved with the Faller plot (as E Anabel was there and amnesiac Looker was in the ORAS universe counterpart too) and that all Emerald and ORAS Brendans are Fallers too.
After successfully stopping the crisis in Hoenn and clearing all of the Battle Frontier, Emerald's Brendan meets the ORAS Brendan.
After successfully stopping both Primal Groudon/Kyogre and the meteoroid, as well as clearing all of the Battle Maison and solving some other cases (such as the Sea Mauville scandal), ORAS Brendan has to save the world once again; from all the Hoopa rings all above Hoenn that threaten its spatial stability. ORAS Brendan succeeds in stopping Hoopa, but Hoopa sends him to the Emerald universe through a ring, where he meets the Emerald Brendan.
After getting introduced to each other a bit and trying to figure out how parallel worlds work, an Ultra Wormhole appears above Battle Frontier and they go there to save the world again. They enter the Wormhole alongside Anabel; she ends up escaping to the Sun/Moon universe while the Brendans end up as amnesiacs elsewhere. This explains why we never see them again in any main series game universe ever.
If Ultra Space and the Distortion World are one and the same, where were the Ultra Beasts during the events of Platinum?
They were afraid of how the rift opened because of Dialga, Palkia and Giratina and went into hiding.
What other types of theories would you like to see discussed in a future ME's Crackpot Theory Corner?
Anything involving parallel universes, Lookers, what happened to the protagonists we never see again, if there is only one Arceus and which of its legendary Pokemon creations are also unique. That's all I can think of right now.

 

[Ereshkigal]

Do you agree or disagree with this theory?

Disagree. But, I think you may have hit on the appearance of the two being connected in some way. And I suspect it's because humans from the Pokeworld visit them.

Outside of the main series Pokemon Games, what evidence can you find that either supports or disproves this theory?

I'll admit I'm not familiar enough with outside material to speak on this.

What other in-game evidence can you find that supports this theory?

Similarities in appearance, plants, and the strange appearances of Pokemon from both.

What in-game evidence disproves this theory?

The Pokemon themselves definitely disprove it.

The UBs are generally shown, what we see of them, as being the same even in Ultra Space; Nihilego only transforms in-game because it is possessing Lusamine. Giratina, on the other hand, is outright stated to shift forms when it comes to the Pokeworld because of the differences in physics. Giratina requires a special item to retain its Distortion Space form.

The other aspect is that Cosmog is specifically stated as being necessary to access Ultra Space, while Distortion World has stable portals to it.

Distortion Space is also said to have been created by Giratina as a balance to the Pokeworld, and Giratina is stated to be the only Pokemon in it. A mirror opposite, and it even shows this in the physics when you explore it. On the other hand, this is not said about Ultra Space, and Ultra Space doesn't show anything to suggest it is even close to the same physics as Distortion World. Plus, the stable region of Ultra Space you're in begins to destabilize as soon as Lusamine is knocked out, while Distortion World never has this problem.

What are some of your theories about the Fallers, where they come from, and how they "fell" through the Ultra Wormholes?

My theory is that there's a lot more Cosmogs in the Pokeworld than just the one we're introduced to, and that they may actually be a baby form of a number of legendaries. But, this has absolutely no support. On the other hand, if true, it would explain both where the other Fallers came from and how a number of legendaries came to be.

If Ultra Space and the Distortion World are one and the same, where were the Ultra Beasts during the events of Platinum?

They didn't exist yet.

What other types of theories would you like to see discussed in a future ME's Crackpot Theory Corner?

How about a theory related to Pokeballs?

 

[Maniacal Engineer]

The UBs are generally shown, what we see of them, as being the same even in Ultra Space; Nihilego only transforms in-game because it is possessing Lusamine. Giratina, on the other hand, is outright stated to shift forms when it comes to the Pokeworld because of the differences in physics. Giratina requires a special item to retain its Distortion Space form.

Might I remind you that UBs do, in fact, undergo some form of change upon exiting Ultra Space. Those funny auras that surround them and, effectively, give them increased stats while in the wild.

The other aspect is that Cosmog is specifically stated as being necessary to access Ultra Space, while Distortion World has stable portals to it.

As far as knowledge in the Mega Evolution universe goes, that is accurate. Remember, very little is actually known about Ultra Space and the Ultra Beasts.
So far as we are aware, at the time of Sun & Moon, the events of Platinum, or the Mega Evolution universe's equivilent, haven't happened yet. Also, where was the Cosmog creating the portal when the Nihilego entered the Aether Paradise?

Distortion Space is also said to have been created by Giratina as a balance to the Pokeworld, and Giratina is stated to be the only Pokemon in it. A mirror opposite, and it even shows this in the physics when you explore it. On the other hand, this is not said about Ultra Space, and Ultra Space doesn't show anything to suggest it is even close to the same physics as Distortion World. Plus, the stable region of Ultra Space you're in begins to destabilize as soon as Lusamine is knocked out, while Distortion World never has this problem.

Again, how much is known about the Distortion World by Cynthia, who makes the claim that Giratina is the only Pokemon in the Distortion World? She's never seen it before or encountered Giratina before.
Knowledge in the "normal" universe and knowledge in the Mega Evolution universe are separate entities. Those in the "normal" universe don't know what they know in the Mega Evolution universe, and vice versa.
Furthermore, some of the Distortion World's physics is shown in the Pokemon being able to appear and disappear at will, but, beyond that, how much game play is going to be designed for what is essentially a walk down a single corridor? Not a lot of room to show off upside down waterfalls or walking on walls in that little of a map.
As far as the Distortion World destabilizing, the whole thing is unstable to begin with. It is a universe where space is unstable. Just because it doesn't seem to happen while we're there doesn't mean it doesn't happen at all.

 

[Ereshkigal]

ME, which Mega Evolution universe? There are at least two; one where Mega Evolution is recently discovered in Kalos, and one where it was more widely-known already.

The aura itself is nothing unusual; there's a number of creatures in the Sun and Moon games that have it.

Sun and Moon can easily be in either, or even a third.

If we're going to dismiss these various bits as being alternate universes, then you have the problem that there's no evidence at all Distortion World and Ultra Space are in any way connected since they do not connect to the same universe. That makes this theory entirely busted.

 

[Maniacal Engineer]

I assume you're talking about the universe of the anime vs the game universe, as, to the best of my memory, there is nothing that forces XY and ORAS to be in different universes and, in fact, Mr. Bonding actually creates continuity between them, placing ORAS before XY. As far as Sun & Moon, again to the best of my memory, there's nothing to suggest that it is on a different universe than XYORAS.

If you are discussing the anime, I would argue that the anime clearly exists outside of the constrains of time, as Ash never seems to age, but, furthermore, I would argue that we have never seen representations of either the Distortion World or Ultra Space in the anime, so we don't know what their appearances in the anime platform would look like. Perhaps the anime will actually explore Ultra Space more, allowing us to see some of the Distortion World's game mechanics at play.

As far as the auras go, the only Pokémon outside of Ultra Beasts that have said auras are:
1. Totem Pokémon, who are said to have been bathed in energy radiating from Ultra Wormholes and are 4x larger than the average Pokémon of their species.
2. Lusamine's Pokémon, when they are in the Ultra World and after Lusamine was possessed by an Ultra Beast.
Both of which have connections to Ultra Space and how it causes "changes."

I have my own theory on these auras, and it actually compliments this theory rather nicely, but I'm phone posting now, so I'll save that one for later.

I fail to see how dismissing the games representing multiple Mega Evolution universes, while not dismissing the notion that there are multiple Mega Evolution universes, disproves my theory. There are alternate universes, clearly, and there are a lot of them. Infinite, in fact. My theory is banking on the fact that there are more than just two universes, because the Fallers wouldn't just be coming from one universe.

 

[Ereshkigal]

I was ignoring the anime for this because I view it as its own universe.

In X and Y, it is outright stated that Mega Evolution is unique to that region and not known elsewhere. Yet ORAS shows it as being present there, and actually present for so long it's a known part of their mythology and there are a lot more people familiar with it. Also, ORAS includes a number of indications that Mega Evolution is not a generally-unknown phenomenon, while in X and Y it definitely is.

Also, timeline-wise, Platinum would have had to come before X and Y and Sun and Moon, since Looker had a Pokemon in Platinum but didn't in those later games because the Pokemon had died.

Also, when met in Black and White and their sequels, Cynthia directly references the events of D/P/Pt as being the past. This puts a minimum timeline of Platinum > B/W > B2/W2 > X and Y > Sun and Moon just from events referenced and observed consequences.

The references in Sun and Moon also indicate that Looker encountered Ultra Beasts in the past, but the only hint to this we have is in ORAS, where he washes up on the shore of a beach with no memories of anything... a story that, in Sun and Moon, is assigned to Anabel instead.

The main problem with dismissing the games as having any connection to each other is that it makes your question of evidence within the games a trap; there is no evidence against your theory because all of these are different universes... and no evidence for it either for the same reason. Your evidence of appearance similarities is easily dismissed as it just being different universes. It pretty much removes all room for logical thought and discussion within this, even when the games make clear references to each other, and leaves us with no room for comparison for purposes of answering the very questions you asked.

It's pretty much a conversation killer in that it makes absolutely all evidence irrelevant. This is why I am not a fan of the theory that each game is its own universe; it's a logical trap that eliminates all possibility of continuity and shuts down far too much discussion.

And I'll admit I'm kinda eh on the auras conversation. Mostly because the auras are evidence in my favor. They did not exist when dealing with Distortion World and Giratina never had one, nor did anything he touched. As well, Giratina's physical transformation was a lot more than just an aura, while the Ultra Beasts never undergo that level of change and just gain an aura.

 

[Esserise]

Next up, both the Distortion World and Ultra Space have bizarre looking plants and foliage. In the Distortion World, these strange plants mysteriously appear and disappear. In Ultra Space, it is the Pokemon themselves that mysteriously appear and disappear.

That's a pretty significant difference. You can't just shrug off the fact that one has plants that flicker out of existence, while the other's plants (are those even plants? They look more like stone columns to me) do not do this, and instead it's the Pokémon that flicker around. And their visual similarities are passing at best - the Distortion World has a very obviously blue/indigo "sky" and floating islands made of clay-red dirt, while Ultra Space is a gray cavern with a black sky and doesn't seem to be floating as far as we can tell. You can say "lighting" or "top-down view," but their differences are pretty obvious, and it wouldn't have been hard for them to make Ultra Space look more like the Distortion World if it were meant to be the same place. You say this theory occurred to you as soon as you entered Ultra Space - well, just imagine how much more certain you'd feel if Ultra Space actually had the same coloration and physical nature as the Distortion World.

Personally, I don't see the point in welding them together. It just makes the Pokémon universe feel smaller and less diverse/interesting, from my view. It's not even like they're the only two parallel dimensions in the series - Professor Burnet studied a dimension called the Interdream Zone (the setting of the Dream Radar 3DS app, which is mentioned by name in Sun and Moon), and we've also seen that Dialga, Palkia, and Arceus each reside in their own dimensions. There are lots of parallel dimensions; Ultra Space and the Distortion World are but two of them.

Of course, there are differences between the Distortion World and Ultra Space. Besides the aesthetics, most of these differences can be attributed to the short period of time and lack of exploration of Ultra Space. However, there is one very glaring difference. The Distortion World only contained one Pokemon, Giratina, while Ultra Space is chock full of Pokemon. I will freely admit that part of the reason I crafted this theory is because I felt that it was a big oversight to exclude Pokemon from the Distortion World, and I would like to believe that this is Nintendo's way of making up for that.

Well firstly, it'd be Game Freak's way of "making up for that," not Nintendo's.

Secondly, there's another important aesthetic difference. The portals to the Distortion World and to Ultra Space don't look anything alike. Ultra Wormholes consistently take the same appearance - that white "grid" wormhole with a cracked rim:

And the two portals into the Distortion World that we see are both more of a thick, black swirl:

There's no persuasive reason for these to look different if the two areas are the same. They're too respectively consistent.

And if Game Freak had meant for there to be Pokémon other than Giratina in the Distortion World, then there would have been. Similarly, if they'd meant for Ultra Space to be the Distortion World, they almost certainly would have said so in a clear and unambiguous way. That's not what happened, though. The Distortion World *is* referenced in SM, but it's as a throwaway bit of continuity fluff on one of the bookshelves in Burnet's lab, treated with the same level of (in)significance and (ir)relevance as the dimension where Bronzong summons rain from.

But what if, similar to the Void in Doctor Who, the Distortion World served the purpose of the "space between dimensions?"
It is the bridge, the connector, between the "normal" universe, the Mega Evolution universe, and any other universes that might be out there. Anything that travels between dimensions must, therefore, travel through the Distortion World, to get between the "gaps" in space-time.
Assuming the Distortion World is Ultra Space, this would explain perfectly how the Ultra Beasts can find traces of their home universe's background radiation no matter where the Faller originated from.

Happy as I am to get Doctor Who jargon in my Pokémon, we already know the Distortion World's purpose. It's not really a gap between universes. Ultra Space could certainly be akin to the Void, but the Distortion World isn't. What the Distortion World does is act as the opposing "DNA strand" to the material universe. If the material universe is damaged, it can be replicated by the Distortion World, and vice-versa. This suggests that its function is only universal, not multiversal. It seems likely, then, that every universe in the multiverse would have its own Distortion World - with each pair of Material Universe + Distortion World comprising their own distinct "DNA chains."

Fallers are people who would pass through Ultra Space in the process of crossing from universe to another. That's why they'd be soaked in Ultra Wormhole radiation. But going into the Distortion World and back isn't the same thing. That's just you jumping into an obscure fold of the universe you're already in.

So far as we are aware, at the time of Sun & Moon, the events of Platinum, or the Mega Evolution universe's equivilent, haven't happened yet.

Sure they have. SM must come after XY, according to Sina and Dexio's mention of the five Kalos protagonists. XY, in turn, must come after BW, because there's an NPC who mentions hearing about Team Plasma on the news a while back. Lastly, BW must come after Platinum, because Caitlin is an adult in BW.

Additionally, it's clear that Giratina and Arceus are known about in SM - a Pokédex entry for Giratina is in Burnet's lab, and the Aether Foundation used the Canalave Library's records of Arceus as the basis for Silvally. Neither of these things would exist prior to the Sinnoh story. There wouldn't be a Pokédex entry about Giratina prior to Lucas/Dawn encountering it, and we know that the Canalave Library's materials on Arceus were donated by the historian hiker in Platinum (this subplot is event-exclusive).

Also, where was the Cosmog creating the portal when the Nihilego entered the Aether Paradise?

Cosmog wasn't there, but Lusamine later mentions that they used gases that were extracted from its body in order to open that first wormhole.

ME, which Mega Evolution universe? There are at least two; one where Mega Evolution is recently discovered in Kalos, and one where it was more widely-known already.

Ehhhhh, I think that was more just a flat-out retcon. (Plus insurance in case Mega Evolution turned out to be unpopular. "Fans hated it? Don't worry, we just won't go back to Kalos again!") There's no point in setting XY and ORAS in different universes unless they're going to do something with that fact, because otherwise it's just inane trivia. Meanwhile, ORAS make numerous references and call-backs to XY, which would feel a bit awkward if they weren't actually referencing the games we just played. It's really only the ubiquity of Mega Evolution that's treated differently, which could just be because they couldn't figure out how to have it present 10 years before XY without contradicting what they already said, and so they didn't even try to cover it.

This tends to happen with remakes anyway, because they have to include the newest features, but by nature tend to be set before the most recent games. FRLG didn't bother to explain why Pokémon eggs were known about, even though GSC very clearly stated that the Togepi egg was a brand-new discovery.

(Although, it's not as if XY even managed to keep their own Mega lore entirely straight. One second, Sycamore was calling it a "new kind of evolution," and the next, there was a generations-old tower dedicated to the practice, which Sycamore himself once trained at.)

 

[Ereshkigal]

Ehhhhh, I think that was more just a flat-out retcon. (Plus insurance in case Mega Evolution turned out to be unpopular. "Fans hated it? Don't worry, we just won't go back to Kalos again!") There's no point in setting XY and ORAS in different universes unless they're going to do something with that fact, because otherwise it's just inane trivia. Meanwhile, ORAS make numerous references and call-backs to XY, which would feel a bit awkward if they weren't actually referencing the games we just played. It's really only the ubiquity of Mega Evolution that's treated differently, which could just be because they couldn't figure out how to have it present 10 years before XY without contradicting what they already said, and so they didn't even try to cover it.

This tends to happen with remakes anyway, because they have to include the newest features, but by nature tend to be set before the most recent games. FRLG didn't bother to explain why Pokémon eggs were known about, even though GSC very clearly stated that the Togepi egg was a brand-new discovery.

(Although, it's not as if XY even managed to keep their own Mega lore entirely straight. One second, Sycamore was calling it a "new kind of evolution," and the next, there was a generations-old tower dedicated to the practice, which Sycamore himself once trained at.)

A retcon makes sense.

And it wouldn't be that hard for them to retcon it like that in continuity. There's an encounter in HGSS where Celebi takes you back in time if you have Celebi. If that counts as canon and not just an easter egg, then changing the past might not be impossible.

I don't want to even get into the thought process of changing history with these games, so I'm going to end that thought there.

 

[Maniacal Engineer]

Excellent points all around, Esserise. You and I do seem to have differing approaches toward issues like this. While, from what you said, you prefer a larger, more diverse universe, I tend to enjoy worlds that are interconnected and are nicely tied together with depth and details. That's why you'll find me making theories like this one and the previous one. I see a villain whose goal is to create a new universe and, two generations later, a new universe happens, I make connections. I see a fragmented world like the Distortion World, where time, space, and physics do not apply, similar to the Void from Doctor Who, and I see a world where everyone, regardless of what universe they started in, passes through to get from one universe to another, and I make more connections. As always, it is a matter of opinion, and you, and everyone else, are certainly welcome to disagree with my theories. After all, it's not like I take them too seriously, myself. Look no further than my title for this segment for proof of that.

Anyway, you are indeed correct that merely brushing off the physical differences between the Distortion World and Ultra Space is not very good science. I do strive to be a good scientist, so let's dig a little deeper, shall we? I am going to revise my theory somewhat based on the comments, remarks, and suggestions above.
First and foremost, the issue with the Distortion World is definitely a matter of perspective, but not for the reason you would think. While what we mostly have for view of the Distortion World come from Platinum, which give the traditional "top down" perspective, Generations recently gave us another perspective of The Distortion World. Note the image in my first post, which I conveniently included here, as well:

Spoiler

Those "platforms," upon which the player jumps in Platinum have a lot more "depth" than is visible with a traditional "top down" view. Some of them, in fact, seem quite "deep."
Ultra Space looks like it is inside a cave or a cavern of some sort. What if Ultra Space is actually the "inside" of those "floating" islands?

This has the advantage of explaining:
1. Why Ultra Space looks different from the Distortion World that we've already seen.
2. Where the Pokemon were when the events of Platinum took place. Only Giratina lives on the "surface." The Ultra Beasts live "below."

As for why they would make Ultra Space a different "region" of the Distortion World, instead of looking exactly like what we had seen before, a little variety is nice. Besides, perhaps Game Freak realized that it would have been weird having Pokemon in the Distortion World after not having them in Platinum and/or not including Giratina in the story if the events of Sun/Moon were to take place in that portion of the Distortion World. Not the soundest of logic, but this is a theory, not hard facts.

The portal differences are also interesting, and considerably more difficult to explain, but I've got two possible explanations.
1. Different methodologies (Giratina causing portals via bending/distorting time and space vs. flat out breaking time and space using Cosmog)
2. In T.A. Barron's Great Tree of Avalon series, the characters used magical portals to quickly transport themselves great distances. However, portals can be temperamental. Some don't take you where you want to go, and instead deposit you in a random location. Others only go to specific locations, and still others can only be accessed from certain locations. While in that universe, all portals look exactly alike, except possibly for their size, in the Pokemon Universe, portals that take you to Giratina's surface world of the Distortion World are black and swirly, while portals that will take you "underground" are the white "grid" wormholes with the cracks around the edges.
That said, after defeating Giratina, the portal left behind it is not the black swirly portal. Its white and kind of looks like it's trying to have depth to it. Sort of like the white "grid" wormholes, but swirly like the portal that took you to the Distortion World. Possibly that was the best they could do to simulate cracks in reality at the time?

But, at this point, you might be asking yourself, what is the point of continuing to try putting the Distortion World and Ultra Space together? Especially if the Distortion World we know and Ultra Space barely, if at all, ever interact with each other.
Well, I've been thinking, which is always dangerous. One of the features introduced in Gen IV that has yet to be seen again outside of Sinnoh is the Underground. If, as hypothesized, Diamond and Pearl remakes are coming, Ultra Space could be the Distortion World's Underground. It would give us a little more time to explore the Distortion World, and Ultra Space, both of which absolutely deserve some fleshing out, at least in my opinion, and would use an in-game mechanic unique to the Sinnoh games to do it. Pretty clever, eh?

As far as the Distortion World acting as the second strand of DNA in the fabric of the universe, in contrast to the world of time and space, the source for that theory is Cyrus, who had already been wrong shortly beforehand when he said that the universe was composed of two strands of time and space. He doesn't exactly have a lot of credibility there. Additionally, the whole purpose for going into the Distortion World is because Giratina "bleeding" into the "normal" universe caused massive spatial and temporal distortions on Spear Pillar that threatened to engulf not just Sinnoh or the world, but the entire universe.
Depending on whether you believe that there is only one Pokemon "creator," one Pokemon of time, one Pokemon of space, and one Pokemon of antimatter, you could extrapolate as to whether or not there is more than one Distortion World and whether or not the crisis caused by Cyrus and Giratina would have collapsed the entire multiverse, but that's another theory for another time.
Simply calling it the second DNA strand to the matter universe, however, is gravely mistaken. Cyrus even contradicts this theory when talking about how defeating the shadowy Pokemon will cause the Distortion World to disappear, thus forever altering the fabric of reality. If the matter universe was the other DNA strand, all that would need to be done is to "rewrite" the Distortion World from it, and it would be right back as it always had been. Then again, Cyrus lies to the player after he is defeated, trying to convince the player that, by defeating or capturing Giratina, the Distortion World would disappear, causing a reality crash. Obviously, capturing or defeating Giratina does not do this. It is merely rhetoric, like pretty much everything else Cyrus has said throughout the entire game.

In any case, I think, at least from the comments above, comparing Ultra Space, if not the Distortion World, to the Void is a valid theory. But, again, if Ultra Space is "inside," then what is "outside?"

 

[Esserise]

There's nothing in your first few paragraphs that I can really refute, so I'll agree to disagree there. What you've responded with is all reasonable and plausible enough; at that point it's just a question of whether one prefers to say that the two dimensions are associated or not, and our respective stances on that are clear.

I will talk about this section for a bit though:

Simply calling it the second DNA strand to the matter universe, however, is gravely mistaken. Cyrus even contradicts this theory when talking about how defeating the shadowy Pokemon will cause the Distortion World to disappear, thus forever altering the fabric of reality. If the matter universe was the other DNA strand, all that would need to be done is to "rewrite" the Distortion World from it, and it would be right back as it always had been. Then again, Cyrus lies to the player after he is defeated, trying to convince the player that, by defeating or capturing Giratina, the Distortion World would disappear, causing a reality crash. Obviously, capturing or defeating Giratina does not do this. It is merely rhetoric, like pretty much everything else Cyrus has said throughout the entire game.

Now, normally I would be the first person to caution against taking these things at face value. I definitely think that context matters - as you say, Cyrus's credibility here is questionable, at the very least.

But there is the matter of why those words are in the game to begin with. While you could accuse Game Freak of poor scenario construction, the fact is that there is nobody in the games who is qualified to tell us about the Distortion World, because any information about it is so obscure. Nevertheless, the writers have to explain it to us somehow. Giratina isn't going to tell us, so that leaves Cynthia and Cyrus as the writers' mouthpieces. Now, in context, Cyrus can only speculate as to the nature of the Distortion World. In-universe, there is no reason to believe that what he says is true... however, I think it is quite possible that this scene is meant to serve as pragmatic exposition. While it exists on shaky ground, it's one of the only ways the writers have of telling us what we're dealing with, so the whole point of Cyrus proposing the DNA strand theory could be intended, on an authorial level, to plant that thought in the viewers' minds, with the hope being that we take it for granted.

Here is his exact dialogue:

> Cyrus: Genes can be considered the blueprints of all life-forms. That includes humans and Pokémon alike. Genes are contained in a DNA strand. A DNA strand consists of 2 chains of opposing characteristics in a spiral. If one of the chains were to be broken, the other could replicate it. One or the other cannot exist without its opposite. Do you understand where I am going with this? This is a bizarre world. Time doesn't flow. Space isn't stable. Only that shadowy Pokémon lives here. This world is the opposite of our world-- our world I wish to change. It is like the two chains composing the strand of DNA. The two worlds must be balancing each other to remain in existence. Without one, the other cannot exist. The shadowy Pokémon must play a role in keeping the worlds in balance. That is why it must have interfered and brought me here. The shadowy Pokémon must have made this bizarre world. That's why trying to change our world disturbed it and made it reveal itself.

There's actually no contradiction in what he says here. He asserts that while DNA chains can repair their opposites if the opposite becomes broken or damaged, he differentiates that from what would happen if one of the chains were to be removed from the equation altogether (this would make it impossible for the other chain to sustain itself). He extends this logic as an analogy to describe the relationship between the material world and the Distortion World. They keep each other balanced, but if one were to be destroyed in its entirety, the opposite would disintegrate because there would no longer be anything to maintain that balance.

It is true that he is wrong about Giratina being an embodiment of the Distortion World and that its capture or defeat does not result in the collapse of reality. But at its core, all that conclusively proves is that he was overestimating the relationship between Giratina and the Distortion World. His theory about the relationship between the Distortion World and the material world could still be accurate - all we know for certain is that Giratina is not a living manifestation of the Distortion World itself.

Let's remember that Cyrus has a vested interest in the myths of Sinnoh being true, and in the Legendary Pokémon being every bit the "rulers" of the universe that the myths make them out to be. He believes - because he must, in order for his goal to seem even remotely attainable - that godly power exists and that it can be made his to command. So it is natural for this belief to inform his expectations of the Distortion World. He already thinks of Dialga and Palkia as being time and space themselves made manifest. Meanwhile, Cynthia - the one who insists that capturing or defeating Giratina will not result in a cataclysm - has espoused the view that the myths are likely the impressions of ancient people who witnessed the raw power of these Pokémon and couldn't comprehend it. While Dialga and Palkia have an undeniable affinity for the temporal and spatial dimensions, no one can prove that they really did create Sinnoh as the legends suggest. Cyrus, of course, accepts the legends as fact because them being factual means he can achieve his goal. See - there is a degree of truth to the myth, in that Dialga does live in another dimension and can warp temporal fabric, but the power to end the universe, or create a new one? It'd certainly be to Cyrus's benefit if that were true, but we don't know that it is. Likewise with the Distortion World, it could indeed be that Cyrus's basic assessment is accurate, with the belief that Giratina's existence is fundamentally linked to that of the Distortion World being where he miscalculated.

 

[Maniacal Engineer]

There is a certain degree of sense that your statement makes, Esserise. You are once again correct that I was misremembering the context of Cyrus's words. DNA with one chain broken can repair itself, while DNA missing an entire chain is just not possible.
Ordinarily, I would come up with another theory regarding the Distortion World and attempt to analyze Giratina's motives for interfering in Cyrus' plans, especially if Cyrus' plan was doomed to failure from the start. That said, I'm rather low energy at the moment, due to this being a particularly rough week, so, for now, I'll turn the conversation back to the Fallers.

A set of open ended questions for the group: who are the Fallers? where do they come from? how do they "fall" through the different universes?
@Zexy has an interesting theory above that I haven't really explored yet. Does anybody else agree with that theory? Disagree? Have your own theory?

Also, on a completely different note, some logistical questions regarding this thread series. This is only the second incarnation of this particular "segment," and I'm not entirely sure what it is that I "want" from this segment, that is to say what the "goal" of these threads should be. The purpose of the thread is to stir up conversation and dialogue. As I mentioned in my previous post, I'm not 100% committed to these theories that I come up with, and I would like to hear other people's theories and opinions on the topics at hand.
What would you guys like to see from these types of threads? What would or should the "end goal" of the thread be, or should it even have an "end goal?"

 

[Enzap]

Technically DNA without a second chain can just make a new chain. Cells tend to have an easier time making new DNA completely than fixing existing strands. Idk if that applies to your theory or expands on Cyrus's point or anything, just though I'd point that out.

 

[Maniacal Engineer]

Technically DNA without a second chain can just make a new chain. Cells tend to have an easier time making new DNA completely than fixing existing strands. Idk if that applies to your theory or expands on Cyrus's point or anything, just though I'd point that out.

That's an interesting point, then.
If we consider just the Platinum matter universe to be the entire "strand," then Cyrus was looking to destroy the whole strand.
If we consider the matter multiverse to be the entire "strand" then what Cyrus was looking to do would damage the strand, as opposed to destroy it, as he was only looking to rewrite his own universe.

So why did Giratina decide to interfere?
Well, going with our first option, if all Cyrus was looking to do was destroy an entire strand, then, according to science, that's easy enough to fix. (Man, I am misremembering my bio. I should stick to chem and physics references.) This being the case, interference wasn't necessary, as the chain could simply be rewritten, using the antimatter "strand."

Assuming the second scenario doesn't make much sense either. All Giratina showing up did was to also put the Distortion World at risk, in addition to the Platinum matter universe. Cynthia repeatedly mentions that the "distorting" effects are also happening in the Distortion World, though how one could tell the difference, I have no idea.

Again, I'm not completely sold on the idea of the Distortion World and the matter universe being complimentary DNA strands to each other.

Esserise is correct that Giratina is unable to speak to the player to tell us about the Distortion World, but Giratina's actions can tell us something about it and the Distortion World. To me, Giratina's actions and the potential motives for those actions don't suggest that the DNA theory is correct.

 

[Esserise]

A set of open ended questions for the group: who are the Fallers? where do they come from? how do they "fall" through the different universes?

We only know of a handful of Fallers: Elio/Selene (the protagonist), Anabel, Looker's deceased teammate, Lusamine, Guzma, Lillie, Mohn, and (most likely) one iteration of Looker.

Crossing through an Ultra Wormhole doesn't automatically seem to result in entering another universe. Only Anabel, the dead teammate, and Looker seem to have ended up in foreign universes. Elio/Selene, Lillie, Lusamine, and Guzma all come back to their native world, although they came through a wormhole that was purposefully opened by Solgaleo/Lunala, so that may have granted them certainty with regard to their destination. This makes Mohn the odd one out - he came back to his own world, albeit with memory loss (presumably as a result of having been in there for so long), but we can't say that it was through a willfully-directed wormhole.

Personally, I hadn't given too much thought toward it, but my immediate image of the Fallers was as people who just happen to be nearby when a wormhole manifests. I hadn't thought of them as entering intentionally - I viewed them as unfortunate accidents resulting in one universe picking up the Faller flotsam from another as a mere side-effect.

I have a loose theory that the non-Mega universe's AZ may have fallen through a wormhole. That could be why he never rose to power in that reality, which would indeed mean that the Kalos war would never have broken out and the weapon would never have been built, just as Zinnia described.

You know, just a thought - Zinnia mentions that the Draconids have viewed the non-Mega universe through "distortions in the world borne by the Mega Evolution mechanism." I wonder if she meant Ultra Wormholes? What if the energy released by Mega Evolution actually wears down the nearby dimensional fabric, and over time, this has weakened the boundary between universes, allowing Ultra Wormholes to manifest? Then again, maybe not. There's no reason why they have to be the same thing, and Ultra Wormholes seem to be a more... specific thing, for lack of a better term. Consider that Solgaleo/Lunala don't just open wormholes, they open Ultra Wormholes, of the exact same appearance and orientation as the wormholes from which Ultra Beasts appear. This is an inherent ability of Solgaleo/Lunala, who as far as we know have nothing to do with the mechanics of Mega Evolution. Thus, at the very least, not *all* Ultra Wormholes could be a side-effect of these Mega Evolution distortions, because Solgaleo/Lunala have the ability to open these specific kinds of wormholes on purpose.

But on the other hand, the interaction text for the wormhole at the Altar of the Sunne/Moone says, "Beyond the distortion you can see what looks to be another world... Will you go there?", which would make sense with Zinnia's statement that the Draconids have observed other worlds through the Mega Evolution distortions. And there is at least one Faller in the vicinity of Hoenn... but at the same time, Hoenn isn't shown to have any of the lore about Ultra Beasts. Why did the UBs show up in Alola's past, but not Hoenn's? Keep in mind that the UBs don't seem to open these wormholes on purpose, if they even have the ability to open wormholes (only the Cosmog line are accredited with being able to do that), so it's not as if the appearance of a wormhole has to equate to the appearance of a UB. Still, it seems quite lucky for Hoenn to have avoided them altogether. Maybe there's just something in Alola that the UBs are more prone to move toward? I'm going to table this theory for now, I think. Maybe save it for a blog post, whenever I get started on those again.

But since I mentioned it, what about the alternate world in Sun and Moon? Where the time of day is reversed, as are the names of the Altar and the Lake? They don't go anywhere near enough in detail about it for me to comfortably state how canonical it is meant to be. I'd previously had a very overwrought theory that, rather than being a distinctly parallel world, what was happening was that Solgaleo/Lunala were allowing us to perceive a sort of inversion of dimensions (not in the sense of alternative worlds but like, spatial fabric - and for the record, I abhor how people have abused the term "dimension" to the point where it's conflated with parallel/alternative worlds). But I don't think Game Freak is really that technically-minded; reason leads me to conclude that it *is* meant to be a parallel world. But what's the deal with it? When we cross over, is there a mirror version of us crossing over into our world at the exact same time? That feels stupid. Is it less 1:1, and while there *is* some mirror version of us in the other world, they're off doing their own thing at that time? I assume that the Lunala/Solgaleo that shows up is that world's Nebby precursor, not that world's Nebby itself. But then that begs the question of why the book in Malie Library doesn't change to mention the other beast. In Sun, the mirror world's book still talks about Solgaleo, and it's the same for Moon and Lunala. Just an oversight on Game Freak's part? Probably, but there's always that slim chance that it could mean something... just like it's probably not meaningful that the NPCs in the mirror world (except for the guy near the Lake) all interact with us as if it were our own world, and the version-exclusives don't change, but still, there's a seed of doubt in my mind.

Technically DNA without a second chain can just make a new chain. Cells tend to have an easier time making new DNA completely than fixing existing strands. Idk if that applies to your theory or expands on Cyrus's point or anything, just though I'd point that out.

Personally, I just don't think they thought about it that much in detail, and just wanted a broad analogy. After all, for as much as this series does borrow ideas from real science and sci-fi, it's not that genre. I mean, one need look no further than the Distortion World itself in order to see them similarly fudging the concept of antimatter.

 

[Enzap]

That's a fair point, Esserise. Physics and Biology are adapted pretty liberally in this series. And also DNA does still repair itself regularly, there's just always the chance it will miss something or not be able to fix it completely, hence one reason why cancer is not all that rare of a disease.

 

[Maniacal Engineer]

Yeah, while I am a fan of how Game Freak has a universe that's supposed to be an antimatter universe, and I love the Distortion World as a whole, there was quite a bit of fudging involved.
In fact, nearest I can reckon, an antimatter universe could very well look and behave very similar to ours in terms of laws of physics, but everything would be opposite. There is no necessity for an antimatter universe to contain no laws of physics. In fact, antimatter does exist, in small quantities, in this universe and it certainly obeys fundamental laws of physics such as conservation of mass, conservation of energy, and conservation of momentum.

Getting back to my topic at hand, though, regarding Fallers, there are a few possibilities I can think of:
1. Similar to Zexy's theory, Fallers "voluntarily" travel through Ultra Wormholes into other universes.
This begs the question as to why they are so doing. Personally, I am not necessarily inclined to believe this theory if, for no other reason, than I see little to no evidence of research on alternate universes being done in the "normal" universe, which is where I presume Anabel came from. I'm guessing that anyone who voluntarily travels through an Ultra Wormhole would either be traveling through one for exploration purposes or for scientific purposes.

2. Fallers unwillingly fall through "naturally occurring" Ultra Wormholes.
This begs the question as to how Ultra Wormholes can "naturally" form, but this is discussed a bit in the Dimensional Research Lab in Heahea City. Definitely not disregarding this as a distinct possibility.

3. Some external force is creating the Ultra Wormholes and either deliberately moving people from one universe to another or the Fallers are just "collateral damage" as whoever or whatever creates the wormholes.
Obvious questions here include: who or what would be behind this? What would their motivation be? Why do I even hypothesize things like this?
Well, as for who, I would think that Cyrus is the best answer, although I admit that is partially because that would help prove part of my previous theory and would support this one, too. Still, if Cyrus is trying to create a new universe, learning about the boundaries between universes, and how to travel between universes, is essential.
As for motivation, if the "culprit" is Cyrus, then his motivation is crystal clear. He wants to create a new universe. As such, learning as much as he can about various universes, including traveling between various realities, is an important skill for his arsenal.
As for why I hypothesize things like this, because it's fun. Do I actually believe that this is Game Freak's intention? No, not really. I just enjoy connecting dots and being a conspiracy theorist. Who knows? Maybe some day Game Freak will actually surprise us with a "hidden depth" in their game plots.

Still, I'm leaning more towards 2 being the most likely option, as much as I would love 3 to be true, it probably isn't. Still, might get another "Crackpot theory" out of it, so it's all good.

 

[Esserise]

Personally, I am not necessarily inclined to believe this theory if, for no other reason, than I see little to no evidence of research on alternate universes being done in the "normal" universe, which is where I presume Anabel came from. I'm guessing that anyone who voluntarily travels through an Ultra Wormhole would either be traveling through one for exploration purposes or for scientific purposes.

There's some research on other dimensions in the Non-Mega Timeline (aside: would reeeeeeally like some official designations for these things, if Game Freak wouldn't mind), but not much. Certainly nothing as prominent as the research on Ultra Space in SM. To my recollection, the examples in the Non-Mega Timeline would be:

- Prof. Burnet's study of the Interdream Zone (which her counterpart in the Mega Timeline also conducted, according to an NPC at the Dimensional Research Lab) in the Dream Radar app. The Interdream Zone is, of course, described as a space that exists between dreams and reality. It is quite reasonable to assume that the Interdream Zone somehow related to the Dream World, which is studied by Fennel, a friend and contemporary of Burnet's.

- The Cell Battery microquest in BW. In the course of this, the character (Thyme in Black, Bach in White) wants to build a machine that can connect to the past/future, and states that what they require is a Pokémon that knows the move Charge, and that it has to come from "another world" they've heard about (that is, the opposite version) where there's an Opelucid City that looks "very old-timey/futuristic." Indeed, bringing them such a Pokémon allows their machine to function for a few moments.

- Quite potentially, Cyrus/Team Galactic's research in the process of figuring out how to summon Dialga/Palkia. Given that those Pokémon dwell in parallel dimensions, it stands to reason that Team Galactic may have had to look into the subject. On that note, a few scraps of mythology concerning Palkia make mention of parallel dimensions, suggesting that it's a concept that ancient witnesses of these Pokémon developed some knowledge about. (Take the Eterna City statue's inscription, which Team Galactic stole, for example: "The birth of PALKIA. The creator of parallel dimensions... Alive, yet not alive... Everything drifts in space... To arrive in the same universe. It is the blessing of PALKIA.")

It's not much, but there is at least an awareness of other dimensions and universes. Also, it is hard to say whether or not the Non-Mega Timeline features a counterpart for Mohn and his study of dimensions in Alola, as we do not ever get to see that timeline's version of Alola. However, at least some Ultra Wormholes must have manifested in that world, if Anabel and the deceased Interpol agent are any suggestion.

As for why I hypothesize things like this, because it's fun. Do I actually believe that this is Game Freak's intention? No, not really. I just enjoy connecting dots and being a conspiracy theorist. Who knows? Maybe some day Game Freak will actually surprise us with a "hidden depth" in their game plots.

Well, I can certainly relate to that. To this day, I still speculate and concoct theories about, for instance, things as outdated and insignificant as why the Regi Pokémon are found in Unova in B2W2. Obviously I acknowledge the truth that they're just thrown in for availability purposes with no serious plot implications intended, but that's a boring answer.

As it happens, I feel I may have come off as somewhat harsh in your previous thread. Strictly speaking, I don't even think your theory - either in this thread or that one - is bad; they're very creative and make for interesting discussions. I just happen to have fundamentally different views of the matters. So I'd like to apologize for that if I seemed that way.