Moves & Abilities Discussion/Speculation

[UB-01 Kenobi]

So, I was thinking competitive strategies for Gen VII and I realized that Grass types may have just gotten a massive buff. They are so far the only type that benefits from both terrain and weather effects. Tapu Bulu's Ability to summon Grassy Terrain is what makes this so scary awesome. Grassy Terrain, I don't think is the best terrain effect (because it can heal your opponent) BUT the buff to Grass type moves and consistent healing make Giga Drain and Horn Leech an almost literal nightmare. Throw in Chlorophyll users like Venusaur, Exeggcutor, Victreebel, and Sawsbuck and oh shit.

Combine with M-Zard Y for maximum effect. Although Ninetales does have some benefits over MZard, namely Heat Rock and freeing up the mega slot. In addition, Tales benefits from the G-Terrain heal while Zard doesn't. Tapu Bulu by itself already gives a major buff to defensive Grass types in general because of the boost to G-Drain and H-Leech stacking with G-Terrain's healing. With the right moves, Pokémon like Ferrothorn, Gogoat, Trevenant, and Amoongus also become defensive monsters, not to mention the lard demon himself, Mega Venusaur. Tremble at the thought of having to take down a MegaSaur in Grassy Terrain. Also, with G-Terrain and Drought in tandem, it is finally possible to create a niche for, wait for it, speedy tanks. Imagine a chlorophyll boosted Vileplume with a Terrain boosted Giga Drain. It'll kill you and heal before you can touch it, and it's defenses are good enough that knocking it out in one turn becomes almost impossible. This tactic does have the big Achilles heel of sun boosted Fire moves, but everything else will have a very hard time dealing.

I mean, it's not like, the ultimate battle style or anything, but Tapu Bulu's Grassy Surge can stack with Drought to benefit tons of Grass types, which is something no other type can actually say.

Electric Terrain + Drizzle = 100% accurate 165 base power thunder

 

[Envoy]

Electric Terrain + Drizzle = 100% accurate 165 base power thunder

I get that, but Rain only benefits one move. I'd say it's hardly worth all the setup just for Thunder. Although it could be an interesting moveset for Tapu Koko itself. Rain Dance + Thunder + coverage + filler.

Ultimately, however, I feel that Grassy Surge + Drought has more far reaching benefits than Electric Surge + Drizzle.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

I get that, but Rain only benefits one move. I'd say it's hardly worth all the setup just for Thunder. Although it could be an interesting moveset for Tapu Koko itself. Rain Dance + Thunder + coverage + filler.

Ultimately, however, I feel that Grassy Surge + Drought has more far reaching benefits than Electric Surge + Drizzle.

Agree to disagree. Sure Rain only benefits the one move but what other move do you want to be using lol? Thunder is THAT good - there's a reason why people will slap Scarf or Specs Rotom-W with Thunder onto their Rain teams even though Rotom is traditionally much better as a defensive pokemon.

And Grass is such a thoroughly mediocre offensive type that i fear a 1.5x Horn Leech MUCH less than a 1.5x 100% accurate Thunder.

And all of this is disregarding the fact that Talonflame exists. Who cares about chlorophyll when you die to a banded Brave Bird before you can even launch an attack

 

[Envoy]

Agree to disagree. Sure Rain only benefits the one move but what other move do you want to be using lol? Thunder is THAT good - there's a reason why people will slap Scarf or Specs Rotom-W with Thunder onto their Rain teams even though Rotom is traditionally much better as a defensive pokemon.

And Grass is such a thoroughly mediocre offensive type that i fear a 1.5x Horn Leech MUCH less than a 1.5x 100% accurate Thunder.

And all of this is disregarding the fact that Talonflame exists. Who cares about chlorophyll when you die to a banded Brave Bird before you can even launch an attack

As I said, this is not a full-proof strategem, and I did mention Fire types (which does cover Talonflame) as a weakness.

It's much easier to switch one Pokemon around to fit a play-style than to dedicate an entire play-style to one move. You've got your boosted Thunders but what do you do when I send in a Grass type, or a dual typed ground type that is neutral to water, and so on.

Meanwhile Grassy/Drought heals the Pokemon every turn (something that stacks with Leftovers) giving them survivability. Chlorophyll boosts their Speed. Solar beam gets a boost and becomes a one-turn move, etc. Grass/Sun boosts both the offense and the defense of (most) Grass type Pokemon. Rain/Electric just benefits the one move. It's an awesome benefit, to be sure, but I'd be hard-pressed to say its a concept worth building a whole team around.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

As I said, this is not a full-proof strategem, and I did mention Fire types (which does cover Talonflame) as a weakness.

It's much easier to switch one Pokemon around to fit a play-style than to dedicate an entire play-style to one move. You've got your boosted Thunders but what do you do when I send in a Grass type, or a dual typed ground type that is neutral to water, and so on.

Meanwhile Grassy/Drought heals the Pokemon every turn (something that stacks with Leftovers) giving them survivability. Chlorophyll boosts their Speed. Solar beam gets a boost and becomes a one-turn move, etc. Grass/Sun boosts both the offense and the defense of (most) Grass type Pokemon. Rain/Electric just benefits the one move. It's an awesome benefit, to be sure, but I'd be hard-pressed to say its a concept worth building a whole team around.

Again, we'll have to agree to disagree lol. IMO there are too many problems inherent with Grass types and Chlorophyll for a Grass-centric strategy to be super successful - there's a reason why Rain was the best weather in Gen V, there's a reason why Rain and Sand teams continued to exist in Gen VI but Chlorphyll dropped off the face of OU instantly, etc. I'm not saying that your strategy is a bad one - I agree that you could definitely do some stuff with it. But Electric and Water pokemon are just REALLY friggin good lol. Rain + thunder has been a great strat since Gen V and it will only get better once the Thunder gets that juicy 1.5x boost from Tapu Koko

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

I guess they didn't do Fire Terrain because Drought and Desolate Land already boost Fire attacks. Psychic Terrain took it's place instead.

 

[Envoy]

Again, we'll have to agree to disagree lol. IMO there are too many problems inherent with Grass types and Chlorophyll for a Grass-centric strategy to be super successful - there's a reason why Rain was the best weather in Gen V, there's a reason why Rain and Sand teams continued to exist in Gen VI but Chlorphyll dropped off the face of OU instantly, etc. I'm not saying that your strategy is a bad one - I agree that you could definitely do some stuff with it. But Electric and Water pokemon are just REALLY friggin good lol. Rain + thunder has been a great strat since Gen V and it will only get better once the Thunder gets that juicy 1.5x boost from Tapu Koko

Rain is nowhere to be seen in OU. Only sand and sun are, and the latter is there purely because of Zard Y. Weather took a massive tumble in Gen VI.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Rain is nowhere to be seen in OU. Only sand and sun are, and the latter is there purely because of Zard Y. Weather took a massive tumble in Gen VI.

Nah Rain teams are a thing. Downpour by Doughboy was fire back when ORAS and Mega Pert came out. Recently, rain teams don't use MPert, but Politoed + TornT + Kingdra + Scarf Rotom-W can still be seen on ladder and in tournament.

ZardY =\= sun team. No chlorophyll users are seen on serious OU teams

 

[The Outrage]

We're also missing the glaring weakness to sun-based teams. Grass type Pokemon are the ones who take the most advantage, but are then also hindered by their extra weakness to fire.

 

[Matleo]

could Extrasensory become in this VII generation now a sound based move?
think of it sensory (frequency)?

Could see two new starters getting it. You can ques which ones.
Weird that in past Serperior didn't get it in the past.


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what if some moves priority and accuracy could be changing like others have power changes like Pin Missile, Water Shuriken? that the accuracy and priority could varie the same way like power of moves does.

 

[AndyPKMN]

could Extrasensory become in this VII generation now a sound based move?
think of it sensory (frequency)?

That's missing the point of what Extrasensory means. It comes from "extrasensory perception", or ESP, which refers to a "sixth sense" unrelated to the normal five senses. In other words, it doesn't have anything to do with sound.

 

[Matleo]

"sixth sense"

good point but now I have a problem, the demage is physical or special?
how do you think the oponent takes it? only wanted more sound moves for those types that dont have them.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

good point but now I have a problem, the demage is physical or special?
how do you think the oponent takes it? only wanted more sound moves for those types that dont have them.

The move description says that it deals special damage.
It is probably like some beam of light attacking you, as seen in the anime description.
Really, all the details were on the page you yourself linked.

 

[Matleo]

The move description says that it deals special damage.
It is probably like some beam of light attacking you, as seen in the anime description.
Really, all the details were on the page you yourself linked.

then when we will get "Beam and light" proof abilities?

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

then when we will get "Beam and light" proof abilities?

Unless I'm someone from gamefreak, I'm not supposed to know that...

Also, an ability with this effect will be too OP, since most of the special attacks involve sending beams of light/beams of various substances. It would block fundamental moves like Flamethrower, hyperbeam etc.

So, I think such an ability should be for a legendary/should not be made at all.

 

[Tensho]

That's missing the point of what Extrasensory means. It comes from "extrasensory perception", or ESP, which refers to a "sixth sense" unrelated to the normal five senses. In other words, it doesn't have anything to do with sound.

Actually, Extrasensory is Supernatural Power in Japanese, which is the reason why so many youkai based Pokemon like Shiftry and Ninetales get it.

 

[Matleo]

Unless I'm someone from gamefreak, I'm not supposed to know that...

Also, an ability with this effect will be too OP, since most of the special attacks involve sending beams of light/beams of various substances. It would block fundamental moves like Flamethrower, hyperbeam etc.

So, I think such an ability should be for a legendary/should not be made at all.

why not? we have gimmick mon like WishiWashi ,Shedinja, with the right proportion of stats , restricted moveset and then even a non legendary or pseudolegendary would work.
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Hope Solar Blade(2 turn move) works similar like Solar Beam that if sunny weather is on the field then it only needs 1 turn to attack without to wait a turn wait phase.
Could someone confirm this?

That Power isn't much if you compare it to other physical grass moves.
Or it will need a rise of power like sky attack or like mentioned before strike first turn during sun.
Power whip(85 accuracy), Wood Hammer(1/3 recoil).

If that would be the case then it would be a good move for Chesnaught and Deciduey and others who would need it in future to share even through past generations.
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does someone else think that we need in future drough, drizzle, sandstream, snow warning with pokemon of other types then those we normally get them with???
Like we had Groudon with Drough, but then again its Primal Reversion.

Imagine a Lurantis with Drough?(+Solar Blade)
or a other grass type with Drough or Drizzle?
Imagine Goodra with Drizzle, but with no secondary water typing.
If a other pokemon then ice/ground would get Snow Warning/sandstream it could be that if it has the ability it could make it immune to the damage of hail/sandstorm.
This would be an awsome way to buff old and new pokes.
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could someone confirm how many new priority moves we got in VII generation?
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next generation I'm waiting for moves that will have 30% chance of disabling a oponents move for 3-5 turns, and move(psychic) or moves that could disable the moves of the same type the pokemon is (fire/fighting could not use fire and fighting moves).
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"Telekinesis itself also bypasses accuracy checks to always hit, unless the opponent is in the semi-invulnerable turn of a move such as Dig , Fly, Dive, Phantom Force."

Would be more interesting if it would break the semi-invulnerable turn, but who knows?
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would be much better if Golisopods Emergency Exit would work like Sturdy +Wimp Out,
that it stops at 50% of max hp and switches simply out without counting the extra damage it would take. Would be better if it would activate automaticaly and not wait for multistrike moves to take it down. It should also activate if Pokémon's HP goes back above 50% after an attack.
Hmm looks like a good ability for many pokemon if they would change that.
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-Give back Levitate on Gengar as a choice with Cursed Body,
- Talonflames Gale Wings should work to 50% of HP
- Ground types should be immune to the effect of the move Curse used by Ghost type pokemon.
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After this generation can see a pokemon getting a ability that makes it immune to moves/attacks that are modified by ability or other moves.
Imagine immune to fire attacks during sun summnoned by drough?
Or immune to the "type based" attacks by a starter that Torrent , Blaze,Overgrow, Swarm, Berserker, Contrary, activated. Immune to Prankster.

Move or a ability that works like the move Torment and is activated for 5 turns, that would block from using moves repeatedly every of oponents Pokemon. (could be a new move or ad effect to Psychic Terrain for 5 turns)
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would like next to see some damage dealing moves that have 30% of Disabling the oponents move till the end of battle. (+buff Cursed Body, becuse 3 turns are not enough if only 30% chance)

Spiky Shield would be better if it too could disable the oponents attack like Cursed Body does.
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dont understand why they didn't make a ground type priority move, High Horsepower would have been perfet as a ground type version First Impression.

Leech Life Power: 80 and X-scizors Power: 80???
or they will reduce Lich Lifes Power to 75 like Drain Punch?
or X-Scizors could get effect like Psychic Fang and make it 85 and work like Blaze Kick with critical hit ratio?
Or all could hapen? Bugs need the love.
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First Impression inflicts damage and is an increased priority move.
It will fail if not used on the first turn the user is out.
change that : "It will fail if not used on the turn the user is send out", to make use of it and Emergency Exit more.
Emergency Exit would need to work more like Sturdy+Wimp out, that when it hits exactly 50% it switches out with 50% of its hp without extra damage taken.
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Teleport- could it become o priority move? or A Detect with 30% chance of making you go first in the next turn?

Dont understand why we didnt get moves that could give 30% of switching or something of that sort.
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now I hope for new moves that work like:

1.Baneful Bunker-> maybe something like protect and draning hp when hit by a "special attack"? (Draining Mind for psychic types or Draining Shadow for ghhosts???)

2. Beak Blast -> maybe something also for frozen(maybe a poison , ghost or water type move) and paralyze (maybe for steel)?
or a move that could put oponent to sleep after hiting?

3.Shel Trap-> a poison version that activates by physical attak and when oponents is switching out, maybe a Tar Pit? a ghost, bug, electric or ice type version would also be cool in future.

hope we get more of this in gen 8
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moves like Fly, Phantom force, Dig, Dive could/should also get 10% chance causing flinching or maybe switching user out to make them more appeling???
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a new ability that makes the user immune to "moves" that type was changed
by moves and abilities:
-Aerilate -Galvanize -Liquid Voice -Normalize -Pixilate -Refrigerate
moves:
Weather Ball, Revelation Dance, Judgment, Ion Deluge, Electrify

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Hope Solar Blade(2 turn move) works similar like Solar Beam that if sunny weather is on the field then it only needs 1 turn to attack without to wait a turn wait phase.
Could someone confirm this?

Can confirm, Totem Pokemon in my battle for the Grass-type challenge used

moves like Fly, Phantom force, Dig, Dive could/should also get 10% chance causing flinching or maybe switching user out to make them more appeling???

All of those are already decent base powered moves with a turn in which the user can only be hit by very few moves. Phantom Force already hits through Protect/Detect and lifts their effects as well. I don't think they need different effects, they're in their own niche. It's like moves that trap the target-they don't get added effects or high base power because they already have their purpose.

First Impression inflicts damage and is an increased priority move.
It will fail if not used on the first turn the user is out.
change that : "It will fail if not used on the turn the user is send out", to make use of it and Emergency Exit more.

That's what it does. "the first turn the user is out" means the first turn after the user's been sent out, not the first time it appears in battle.

Imagine Goodra with Drizzle, but with no secondary water typing.

Goodra's already got three pretty decent abilities, I doubt they'll give switch out another one. (Sap Sipper doesn't do a whole lot for it, but it's not like that's the only option)

Talonflames Gale Wings should work to 50% of HP

Only Talonflame's? I can't imagine they'll make an ability work differently for just one Pokemon, especially when this change seems to be in response to how powerful Gale Wings Talonflame was. (Or did you just say "Talonflame's Gale Wings" because only the Fletchling line can get Gale Wings?)

could someone confirm how many new priority moves we got in VII generation?

Accelerock, First Impression, and Baneful Bunker are the only ones.

I mean, it's not like, the ultimate battle style or anything, but Tapu Bulu's Grassy Surge can stack with Drought to benefit tons of Grass types, which is something no other type can actually say.

Harsh Sunlight doesn't actually directly benefit Grass-types, though. There are some ways it can be good with Grass-types, like the Solar moves and abilities like Chlorophyll and Leaf Guard, but Harsh Sunlight's type-based changes are an increase to Fire-type moves and decrease to Water-type moves. Which is nice, but not what you want for your Grass-based team.

 

[winstein]

If Steelworker were to give an extra Steel-type in addition to the Steel STAB, I think it would be one of the best abilities as to become a staple in Smogon's Almost Any Ability. On Dhelmise, it would have the following:

Immune: Normal, Fighting, Poison
NVE: Water, Electric, Grass (x2), Psychic, Steel, Dragon, Rock, Bug, Fairy
Effective: Ice, Ground, Flying
SE: Fire (x2), Ghost, Dark

Right here, we can see that it is different from any Grass/Steel and Steel/Ghost we have, such as resisting Bug and not being weak to Ground. It would also make Dhelmise useable in three Monotype teams, which would have been the third-most (after Arceus and Silvally).

It would certainly have been better than its current type, but I don't know how good it would be since it doesn't have decent recovery options (it has Giga Drain, but it comes from its weaker, but average Special Attack).

Thanks for reading.

 

[Matleo]

All of those are already decent base powered moves with a turn in which the user can only be hit by very few moves. Phantom Force already hits through Protect/Detect and lifts their effects as well. I don't think they need different effects, they're in their own niche. It's like moves that trap the target-they don't get added effects or high base power because they already have their purpose.

as you stated Phantom Force has a added effect of going through Protect but Dig, Fly and Dive would need something like 10% flinching to make up for this

Only Talonflame's? I can't imagine they'll make an ability work differently for just one Pokemon, especially when this change seems to be in response to how powerful Gale Wings Talonflame was. (Or did you just say "Talonflame's Gale Wings" because only the Fletchling line can get Gale Wings?)

this time you are a little right, but if they changed it once they can make it more + we now have abilities to counter that.
What a pitty that psychic terrain doesnt effect levitating foes but maybe in future they will buff Gravity into not only grounding flying types but also dealing damage when they fall.

If they create a ghost, fire or a other type of ability similar to Gale Wings I would like something that starts from below 50% of HP.