Moves & Abilities Discussion/Speculation

[TechSkylander1518]

as you stated Phantom Force has a added effect of going through Protect but Dig, Fly and Dive would need something like 10% flinching to make up for this

Not really. The Pokemon that learn Dig, Dive, and Fly usually can't learn Phantom Force. If Phantom Force was always being chosen over the other moves, then they could use the boost, but with Phantom Force being a lot more uncommon than the others, they still get used plenty.

this time you are a little right,

I'm a bit offended at your wording in this. You seem to be implying that this is the only time any of my points could be considered "correct" (ignoring the actual facts I stated in response to some of your questions), and considering you didn't reply to a large portion of my post, it feels like you're saying my other points were so wrong you couldn't even be bothered to reply.

but if they changed it once they can make it more + we now have abilities to counter that.

I never said that they wouldn't change the ability, I simply said that they won't change how it works for just one Pokemon.

While it is true that we have abilities that prevent priority moves, they're not going to be a guaranteed counter. Tsareena is a Grass-type, weak to both of Talonflame's STABs-it's not going to keep its priority down for long. Bruxish may be able to keep it down for longer, but its defenses aren't exactly stellar, even if it's got STAB Water-type moves against it.

What a pitty that psychic terrain doesnt effect levitating foes but maybe in future they will buff Gravity into not only grounding flying types but also dealing damage when they fall.
Maybe 75% or 50%. Thats not much.

Do you mean 75% or 50% of their HP? If that's the case, I seriously hope you're joking when you say "That's not much".

Right here, we can see that it is different from any Grass/Steel and Steel/Ghost we have, such as resisting Bug and not being weak to Ground. It would also make Dhelmise useable in three Monotype teams, which would have been the third-most (after Arceus and Silvally).

While I do think the idea of a three-type Pokemon is really fun, I can't imagine GF would change an ability to suit self-imposed rules in a fanmade challenge.

 

[Matleo]

I'm a bit offended at your wording in this.

I only disagree with opinion, I wanted to say you see only the tip of the iceberg.

Tsareena is a Grass-type, weak to both of Talonflame's STABs-it's not going to keep its priority down for long. Bruxish may be able to keep it down for longer, but its defenses aren't exactly stellar, even if it's got STAB Water-type moves against it.

If Gale Wings would have not change, then both abilties would have blocked all flying type moves from Talonflame.
I know it has the fire typing.
Tsareena could get Water Sport as a grass type, look at her fantastic legs.
+ not only Talonflame is there, atleast we have a grass type immune to Ice shard and Avalanche
and a water/psychic immune to sucker punch.
If in future we get a fire or electric priority move for some old a new pokemon then the fun will get started.
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Its weird they block only moves with priority, but there should be something a buff to it or new abilities:
one that would block a oponents move when he uses a speed rising move (Flame Charge) on that turn
and a second ability that blocks the next move on the next turn after the speed had gotten greater through a move or a ability. ( one turn after using Flame Charge and activation , Agility )
Or maybe a ability that makes you immune to all moves with effects?(or when they would activate, I dont know what would be better in this case)
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Do you mean 75% or 50% of their HP? If that's the case, I seriously hope you're joking when you say "That's not much".

no, my failure I was thinking there of Talomflames Gale Wings % of hp and not ended my sentence right.

Gravity should/could make damage to levitating and flying like Sonic Boom, 20 damage before they fall to the ground.
A psychic type that has Levitate should be immune to Gravity like Dark types are immune to Prankster. ( does this make sense???)
Or the user of Gravity if he self has Levitate then he should be immune of loosing his ability. ( Baltoy, Claydol)
If we would get a new pokemon with Psychic Surge and it would use Gravity that would be powerfull.
Or a pokemon that could cast with ability Gravity.

While I do think the idea of a three-type Pokemon is really fun, I can't imagine GF would change an ability to suit self-imposed rules in a fanmade challenge.

the same for me, I also think that would be to good to be true...
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I would want a electric type move that is supper effective against steel types
and a new electric type move with priority
A ability based on Eletromagnetism that would make a oponents steel type not able to attack for the first turn the user is out (or they could buff Magnet Pull).
Maybe if we get a grass/eletric and fire/steel pokemon this could be made posibble?

 

[TechSkylander1518]

If Gale Wings would have not change, then both abilties would have blocked all flying type moves from Talonflame.

That's definitely true, but I don't think either one of us was saying that Gale Wings shouldn't have changed.

Tsareena could get Water Sport as a grass type, look at her fantastic legs.

...What? Legs don't have anything to do with Water Sport-the description never makes any mention of them, and some Pokemon that learn it don't even have any legs.

Its weird they block only moves with priority, but there should be something a buff to it or new abilities:
one that would block a oponents move when he uses a speed rising move (Flame Charge) on that turn
and a second ability that blocks the next move on the next turn after the speed had gotten greater through a move or a ability. ( one turn after using Flame Charge and activation , Agility )

I can see where the connection of priority and Speed comes from, but that really seems to be too much to completely shut down a Pokemon. Preventing moves that boost one's Speed, I can get, but to include a punishment of a complete loss of a turn?

Or maybe a ability that makes you immune to all moves with effects?(or when they would activate, I dont know what would be better in this case)

There is an ability that prevents added effects from moves (Shield Dust), but preventing any move that causes a special effect? That'd way too many. (see this page for a list of all the moves that would encompass)

Gravity should/could make damage to levitating and flying like Sonic Boom, 20 damage before they fall to the ground.

Oh, I see! Yeah, that's a lot better than what I was thinking. It'd provide more encouragement for players to try Gravity without making people scared to use the flying type.

A psychic type that has Levitate should be immune to Gravity like Dark types are immune to Prankster. ( does this make sense???)
Or the user of Gravity if he self has Levitate then he should be immune of loosing his ability. ( Baltoy, Claydol)

I get where that's coming from, with the idea of telekinesis keeping them afloat, but Gravity is kind of like weather and terrain effects-you and your opponent both get the same benefits and problems. It'd be interesting if the move Telekinesis was changed to where a Pokemon could use it on itself without the loss of evasion, since more Psychic-types can learn Telekinesis than Magnet Rise, but I can't imagine that'll be super likely.

If we would get a new pokemon with Psychic Surge and it would use Gravity that would be powerfull.
Or a pokemon that could cast with ability Gravity.

The terrain abilities are signature abilities right now, so I can't imagine it'd be passed to someone else anytime soon. (It took two generations for Drought to be passed to other Pokemon) An ability to summon Gravity would be really cool, I'd love to see them branch out more with abilities that start up effects like that!

I would want a electric type move that is supper effective against steel types
and a new electric type move with priority
A ability based on Eletromagnetism that would make a oponents steel type not able to attack for the first turn the user is out (or they could buff Magnet Pull).
Maybe if we get a grass/eletric and fire/steel pokemon this could be made posibble?

Those all sound like really fun ideas, I do wish they'd do more with magnetism and the idea of being "lightning fast"! We do already have a Fire/Steel with Heatran, but only one Pokemon obviously doesn't include a huge amount of possibilities.

 

[Matleo]

but to include a punishment of a complete loss of a turn?

after the oponents speed has risen or your own was reduced down , then the oponents pokemon would loss his turn not yours, the user of this ability. I dont know if it would be a punishment.
I dont want a nother Stall like with Sabley without option to change out with oponent.

There is an ability that prevents added effects from moves (Shield Dust), but preventing any move that causes a special effect? That'd way too many. (see this page for a list of all the moves that would encompass)

if it would only block those moves that chance rate caused the effect to be activated during battle,
block only those which effect would activate on that turn.

the list of those with 100% chance rate is 20 moves.
one with 70%.
those with 50% are 9 moves.
(30 moves)

Yes there are many but the chance of activation falls with the amount.
This is a good ability if you look at that list.
Maybe this would or could not relate to priority moves but rather to stose moves that have status, flinching, stats changes.

Imagine your oponent uses Thunderpunch and it's paralizing 10% chance effet would activate on that turn, then this ability from the user would cause to block that move like "those abilities that neutralize priority moves".
That means that your oponent has 90% in that turn to hit the pokemon with this ability, thats not to strong.

Compare we have 26 sound moves and sound proof, we may get more sound moves in future.
a ground type immunity blocks 23 or more electric type moves now.
Some other type immunity abilities block more then 30 moves. (Flash Fire)

If a pokemon would get it it can't be a legendary, but maybe a psychic/dragon pseudolegendary, with not overdone stats?
(maybe more pokes should get something like this like Malamar)
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or we could get new abilities that totally block moves make user immune :
1. flinching moves
2. confusion moves
3.Speed lowering moves
4. stats changing from attack, def,sp.def, sp. attack (maybe this +speed lowering moves)
5. status inflicting moves: poison, burn, freeze, paralizis, sleeping (or every seperated)

Shield Dust only blocks the effects of the move taken and not the damage,
I would rather something that totally blocks those moves if they have that kind of effect like we got with priority blocking Queenly Majesty.

Oh, I see! Yeah, that's a lot better than what I was thinking. It'd provide more encouragement for players to try Gravity without making people scared to use the flying type.

or it could immobilize the levitate/flying type on the first turn it has contact with Gravity.

(It took two generations for Drought to be passed to other Pokemon)

and that was too long for many players and fans. Beeheyem would love to have instant psyhic terrain.

Those all sound like really fun ideas, I do wish they'd do more with magnetism and the idea of being "lightning fast"! We do already have a Fire/Steel with Heatran, but only one Pokemon obviously doesn't include a huge amount of possibilities.

imagine that with a pair of future fully evolved starter pokemon.
(grass/electric or grass/water Jaguar and fire/steel minotaur, the sheep would be better a greek pan fire/fairy)

 

[TechSkylander1518]

after the oponents speed has risen or your own was reduced down , then the oponents pokemon would loss his turn not yours, the user of this ability. I dont know if it would be a punishment.
I dont want a nother Stall like with Sabley without option to change out with oponent.

Sorry, I wasn't quite clear-I don't think it'd be fair to make the opponent have their turn completely shut down.

if it would only block those moves that chance rate caused the effect to be activated during battle,
block only those which effect would activate on that turn.

the list of those with 100% chance rate is 20 moves.
one with 70%.
those with 50% are 9 moves.
(30 moves)

Yes there are many but the chance of activation falls with the amount.
This is a good ability if you look at that list.
Maybe this would or could not relate to priority moves but rather to stose moves that have status, flinching, stats changes.

Oh, I see! That would add a very interesting twist to gameplay, I think that could be pretty neat!

Compare we have 26 sound moves and sound proof, we may get more sound moves in future.
a ground type immunity blocks 23 or more electric type moves now.
Some other type immunity abilities block more then 30 moves. (Flash Fire)

Well, with types, blocking moves isn't always that useful-few people would send a Fire-type against a Fire type, or an Electric-type against a Ground type-but I see your point, there's a lot more moves that can be blocked that I was considering.

or we could get new abilities that totally block moves make user immune :
1. flinching moves
2. confusion moves
3.Speed lowering moves
4. stats changing from attack, def,sp.def, sp. attack (maybe this +speed lowering moves)
5. status inflicting moves: poison, burn, freeze, paralizis, sleeping (or every seperated)

Shield Dust only blocks the effects of the move taken and not the damage,
I would rather something that totally blocks those moves if they have that kind of effect like we got with priority blocking Queenly Majesty.

Those sound like they'd all be very neat!

Beeheyem would love to have instant psyhic terrain.

Oh, definitely-it'd also be a great way to look more into the Pokemon itself when people have their attention drawn to it. (It seems to be the most skipped over alien Pokemon)

 

[Matleo]

Sorry, I wasn't quite clear-I don't think it'd be fair to make the opponent have their turn completely shut down.

then make it work like Dazzling but with moves that rise and reduce speed from oponent.
(we have 14 moves that lower yours speed or rise oponents speed when used by the oponent, maybe they could implement them (block them too) somehow into Dazzling to make it a little bit other then Queenly majesty(Meganium would deserve it more if you think how many ice moves it blocks) or create a new ability and more speed rising and reducing moves. Only problem would be Speed Boost, but it's not a move its a ability, but they could make something that the first attack that used the boost could get blocked.)

This makes me want a pokemon based on a standing clock, maybe a steel/psychic or
steel/ fairy type? or other combination.

Dazzling blocks 22 damage dealing moves + those of: prankster+Gale wings + triage
Queenly majesty blocks 22+15= 37 damage dealing moves + those of: prankster+Gale wings + triage

Status changing moves are also included, yes?

 

[TechSkylander1518]

That sounds pretty balanced-it can still block out various moves and strategies without being like a "lose a turn" ability.

Yep, they block any move that's been given any kind of increased priority. (I'm kinda confused as to where to extra 15 come from for Queenly Majesty, though-my understanding is that they work the same way)

 

[Matleo]

That sounds pretty balanced-it can still block out various moves and strategies without being like a "lose a turn" ability.

Yep, they block any move that's been given any kind of increased priority. (I'm kinda confused as to where to extra 15 come from for Queenly Majesty, though-my understanding is that they work the same way)

Queenly majesty blocks all priority moves, like also the decreased priority moves , like Avalanch, Dragontail
Dazzling only those with increased priority like Quick Attack, Shadow Sneak.

I hope I counted them right?

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Queenly majesty blocks all priority moves, like also the decreased priority moves , like Avalanch, Dragontail
Dazzling only those with increased priority like Quick Attack, Shadow Sneak.

I hope I counted them right?

No, Queenly Majesty and Dazzling block the same moves. Priority moves generally means moves with an increased priority-for example, Prankster only says it "gives priority to status moves" instead of "increases priority of status moves". Moves with negative priority have that to keep them in check, similar to the recharging turn of moves like Hyper Beam. Adding an ability that makes a move's weakness even worse would just be silly.

 

[Matleo]

No, Queenly Majesty and Dazzling block the same moves. Priority moves generally means moves with an increased priority-for example, Prankster only says it "gives priority to status moves" instead of "increases priority of status moves". Moves with negative priority have that to keep them in check, similar to the recharging turn of moves like Hyper Beam. Adding an ability that makes a move's weakness even worse would just be silly.

??? all priority moves and only increased ones is not the same.

Category:Decreased priority moves - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

 

[TechSkylander1518]

??? all priority moves and only increased ones is not the same.

Category:Decreased priority moves - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

I'm aware that those moves exist. However, when people use the term "priority moves", they generally mean "moves with increased priority", not moves with any priority different from the norm. (That was why I gave the example of Prankster-it only says "priority", not "increased priority")
And, as I said before:

Moves with negative priority have that to keep them in check, similar to the recharging turn of moves like Hyper Beam. Adding an ability that makes a move's weakness even worse would just be silly.

 

[Matleo]

I'm aware that those moves exist. However, when people use the term "priority moves", they generally mean "moves with increased priority", not moves with any priority different from the norm. (That was why I gave the example of Prankster-it only says "priority", not "increased priority")
And, as I said before:

but its not silly? if a move is very powerfull it makes good a pokemon with type disadvantage to be able to counter/block atleast one move.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

That's just the thing, though-Moves with decreased priority aren't really that powerful. Some, like Trick Room, Roar, and Whirlwind, aren't even offensive moves.

• Counter and Mirror Coat deal damage depending on the user being attacked. (and by a certain category of move, no less)
• Shell Trap is only triggered if the user is hit by a physical move
• Focus Punch fails if the user is hit by any move at all.
• Avalanche and Revenge only double in power if the user is hit.
• Circle Throw and Dragon Tail are more likely to be used for switching opponents out-there's much stronger Dragon and Fighting type moves out there, after all. And I can't imagine they'd be used that often, because a Ghost or Fairy type would shut down relying on those moves. Whirlwind is much more reliable-bypasses accuracy checks and affects all types. (though it doesn't deal any damage)
• Beak Blast, I admit, doesn't have any downsides on top of the lower priority-it hits regardless, and just burns whoever attacks.

Generally, these moves can get shut down pretty easily-just don't attack (or do, in the case of Focus Punch), and they'll do less damage or no damage at all. Between that and their decreased priority, most of these moves are already suffering-why bring in an ability to make things worse for them?

And Queenly Majesty is currently only on Tsareena. Only Avalanche, Beak Blast, or Shell Trap would be super effective on it. (and I can't imagine many people would keep their Tsareena in against a Turtonator or Toucannon) While I can see the benefits to blocking Beak Blast and Shell Trap, they're only two moves-and signature moves introduced in the new generation, too. It wouldn't make sense to hinder these other moves further for the sake of two moves that can only be learned by two Pokemon.

 

[TouyaShiro]

And I can't imagine they'd be used that often, because a Ghost or Fairy type would shut down relying on those moves.

Depends on the movepool of the Pokémon in question. I dunno about any sets that use Circle Throw, but I know Dragon Tail is used in place of Whirlwind for a few Pokémon that learn one but not the other.

 

[Matleo]

That's just the thing, though-Moves with decreased priority aren't really that powerful. Some, like Trick Room, Roar, and Whirlwind, aren't even offensive moves.

• Counter and Mirror Coat deal damage depending on the user being attacked. (and by a certain category of move, no less)
• Shell Trap is only triggered if the user is hit by a physical move
• Focus Punch fails if the user is hit by any move at all.
• Avalanche and Revenge only double in power if the user is hit.
• Circle Throw and Dragon Tail are more likely to be used for switching opponents out-there's much stronger Dragon and Fighting type moves out there, after all. And I can't imagine they'd be used that often, because a Ghost or Fairy type would shut down relying on those moves. Whirlwind is much more reliable-bypasses accuracy checks and affects all types. (though it doesn't deal any damage)
• Beak Blast, I admit, doesn't have any downsides on top of the lower priority-it hits regardless, and just burns whoever attacks.

Yes I see it , I always wondered if they could buff some of them, but some have real power.

Roar or Whirlwind could decrease a pokes stats by switching it too if they would want it.
(the switching allone gets handy although)

Yes some moves based on "luck" and strategy should get more buffing and changes in future.

Counter and Mirror Coat if you use them right they are strong, but maybe the pokemon should loose less hp or something that kind when using this kind of moves. The demage could be trippled instead of doubled to make them more special
Always wondered why they dont make the pokes loose a concrete amount of hp(1/4 or 1/3 if hit with a move that activates it) instead of getting the demage to allow a pokemon to survive longer even if it is lacking on hp becuse of its stats.
That when your oponent uses Giga Impact and you use Counter your poke would go last but only loose 25% of its actual hp then the standard demage, the oponent would get hit by the trippled damage that he would normally do on the pokemon if it would get hit.
This moves have hard when you dont know what the oponent may use on you.

Yes Shel Trap, but its Power is 150, the only lack for Turtonator is against special moves when using it but it always can get Aftermath for its ability or the move Mirror Coat in future?

Focus Punch I know its a big risk, but if you know that flinching , encore exists then the risk is not that bad.
But they could make it have a 30% chance of activating when even hit or by lower Power.
Or they could make a relation between Focus Punch, Focus Energy and Inne Focus?
Inner Focus Prevents flinching maybe it could allow Focus Punch to have 50% chance of activation even when hit by oponent? the same would go for Focus Energy to not waste turns and make them more corelate and strategic. Maybe make them work diffrent when hit by a special then by a physical move?

Avalache and Revenge are very powerfull even if they don't get hit.
But on the over hand we have now Ice Hammer and Close Combat and other moves that make them competition but are also less powerfull of have other downsides.
Interesting would be to see if a Power change from 60 to 65 would be good for them?
Or if they could get a decrese of power to 55 but a 30% chance of making the oponet flinch when
hit or maybe when not hit?

Circle Throw and Dragontail.
Yes flying and fairy, but ghost too have a advantage against that fighting type move.
Steel resists dragon.
My only problem is that more starters get Dragon Tail then Circle Throw.
The moves Powder and Switching are the best, I dont understand why they don't show it on the anime.


Beak Blast, yes its a good new thing hope we get
a Ghost type move with flinching(it would go last, after being hit could cause the oponent to flinch next turn)
or a move that could make it switch-out the oponent when he hits the user (that also could get handy) and a Ice type(or ghost type) move with Freezing that could work similar to Beak Blast.

We got in the past moves of other types that cause status conditions like Twineedle now that we have Corrosion that may get interesting if a bug type gets both.

And Queenly Majesty is currently only on Tsareena. Only Avalanche, Beak Blast, or Shell Trap would be super effective on it. (and I can't imagine many people would keep their Tsareena in against a Turtonator or Toucannon) While I can see the benefits to blocking Beak Blast and Shell Trap, they're only two moves-and signature moves introduced in the new generation, too. It wouldn't make sense to hinder these other moves further for the sake of two moves that can only be learned by two Pokemon.

If not many pokemon have such moves and not many have such ability like Tsareena, then I would let it block decreased priority moves too, becuse it would allow it to atleast have more usage against some oponents.
A Grass type immune to 2 overused ice type moves, a flying move that burns and a fire Shield Trap would be that bad?
If they plan to gice it to Vespiqueen it would make those pokemon much better if they would work this way.

Its olny time when more pokes will get more of these abilities and moves, better if they would get buffed by that time or not?
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what would be if pokemon inflicted with freeze status pokemon could still use their rolling and spining based moves?

Rapid Spin, Rollout, Steanm Roller, Gyroball

Will Beak Blast revove the freeze status from it's the user in future and protect it from getting frozen by a physical move?

Your reaction: a move with 100% freeze status is made.... - Pokemon X Message Board for 3DS - Page 2 - GameFAQs

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Counter and Mirror Coat if you use them right they are strong, but maybe the pokemon should loose less hp or something that kind when using this kind of moves. The demage could be trippled instead of doubled to make them more special

Double damage is already pretty extreme, and no other move doubles the damage taken apart from Bide-it's not like they've got a lot to compete with.

Focus Punch I know its a big risk, but if you know that flinching , encore exists then the risk is not that bad.

Moves that cause flinching have only a 30% chance to cause it-it's not exactly worth basing a strategy on. (and it requires another Pokemon in a Double Battle) Encore could definitely help, but it requires the opponent using a move that doesn't hit in the first place-and not every Pokemon is going to have one in its moveset.

Avalache and Revenge are very powerfull even if they don't get hit.
But on the over hand we have now Ice Hammer and Close Combat and other moves that make them competition but are also less powerfull of have other downsides.
Interesting would be to see if a Power change from 60 to 65 would be good for them?
Or if they could get a decrese of power to 55 but a 30% chance of making the oponet flinch when
hit or maybe when not hit?

While 60 base power isn't bad, other moves with higher base power are going to get picked over them, especially when they have lowered priority.

...Avalanche and Revenge can't make the target flinch-their low priority means that the opponent is generally going to go first.

Circle Throw and Dragontail.
Yes flying and fairy, but ghost too have a advantage against that fighting type move.

I never said anything about Flying types, I only mentioned Ghost-types.

My only problem is that more starters get Dragon Tail then Circle Throw.

Why are you concerned about starter Pokemon getting the move? It's not like people can't use other Pokemon. (and it's kind of to be expected that Dragon Tail can be learned by more Pokemon, considering that it's a TM)

The moves Power and Switching are the best, I dont understand why they don't show it on the anime.

Not every move is shown in the anime, and something based so heavily in game mechanics could be hard to implement.

If not many pokemon have such moves and not many have such ability like Tsareena, then I would let it block decreased priority moves too, becuse it would allow it to atleast have more usage against some oponents.
A Grass type immune to 2 overused ice type moves, a flying move that burns and a fire Shield Trap would be that bad?

There's only one Ice-type move with lowered priority, and I wouldn't exactly call it over-used.

You're missing my point-it's not those moves that would be a problem, it's how it would hurt all other lower-priority moves that's an issue.

Its olny time when more pokes will get more of these abilities and moves, better if they would get buffed by that time or not?

It's not "only a matter of time"-it's entirely up to GameFreak to decide if a signature ability would be shared or not. And plenty of Pokemon have kept abilities to themselves for a number of generations-check out this list.

what would be if pokemon inflicted with freeze status pokemon could still use their rolling and spining based moves?

Rapid Spin, Rollout, Steanm Roller, Gyroball

While certainly an interesting idea, it'd require the Pokemon being frozen into a perfect ball of ice, which has been shown is not the case.

Will Beak Blast revove the freeze status from it's the user in future and protect it from getting frozen by a physical move?

It may already be that way-I don't think Beak Blast's relation to freezing has been tested yet.

 

[TouyaShiro]

no other move doubles the damage taken apart from Bide-it's not like they've got a lot to compete with.

Well, there are more than just those three moves that do double damage, but every single instance is conditional. Sky Uppercut and Thousand Arrows do double damage to foes in the middle of Sky Drop and Fly, for example.

Though speaking of, are we gonna see more of this kind of move in the future? IIRC they're the only two moves - maybe Smack Down being another - that actually hit foes that hard during flying states.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Well, there are more than just those three moves that do double damage, but every single instance is conditional. Sky Uppercut and Thousand Arrows do double damage to foes in the middle of Sky Drop and Fly, for example.

Though speaking of, are we gonna see more of this kind of move in the future? IIRC they're the only two moves - maybe Smack Down being another - that actually hit foes that hard during flying states.

I was taking about moves that double damage taken, not moves that double in base power. (and Sky Uppercut doesn't double in base power on a target that has used Fly)

Fly's actually got quite a number of moves that can hit foes during its turn-Thunder, Hurricane, Twister, and Gust all do. (Twister and Gust double in base power, so they actually become more useful) I think moves that hit Pokemon under Dive or Dig might be more interesting to explore.

 

[Matleo]

...Avalanche and Revenge can't make the target flinch-their low priority means that the opponent is generally going to go first.

yes, but those who learn it really have a hard time using it.

Why are you concerned about starter Pokemon getting the move? It's not like people can't use other Pokemon. (and it's kind of to be expected that Dragon Tail can be learned by more Pokemon, considering that it's a TM)

Emboar, Chesnaught and Incineroar dont look like they couldn't learn it?
I understand they love Poliwrath, Throh, Pancham line, Kangasham, Wishmur, Buneary, Riolu, but why not let some starters get it? others got switch option move like dragontail.

Not every move is shown in the anime, and something based so heavily in game mechanics could be hard to implement.

my mistake , "Powder", not that hard they used Voltswitch, but didnt show its full potential in battles, maybe they wait for the next future 5 generations and a finishing sequence with a anime based on all 12 regions we had seen

There's only one Ice-type move with lowered priority, and I wouldn't exactly call it over-used.

You're missing my point-it's not those moves that would be a problem, it's how it would hurt all other lower-priority moves that's an issue.

only if some pokemon would get it? the ability, not psychic terrain...

While certainly an interesting idea, it'd require the Pokemon being frozen into a perfect ball of ice, which has been shown is not the case.

if you roll a ice cube what shape does it have? yes I know it could be frozen with the ground....

It may already be that way-I don't think Beak Blast's relation to freezing has been tested yet.

would be great if it would defrost user when already frozen and protect from frozen when hit by physical and special ice attacks or Tri Attack, that way it would be special then other normal/flying. Hope Empoleon gets this.

I think moves that hit Pokemon under Dive or Dig might be more interesting to explore.

I wonder why not Aura Sphere? it should be abble to hit.
some psychic type moves like Telekinesis should also work and take ot of that state or not?
lest say psychic is to powerfull and you would need to see the foe directly.

Weird that Surf hits something that Dived under water after 5 generations. But ok, I understand they needed surf lessons to come up with it.

Would make sense if Twister, Hurricane ,Brine, Liquidation, Hydro Vortex or Sky Drop(birds hunt for fish).

Category:Moves that can hit semi-invulnerable Pokémon - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

 

[TechSkylander1518]

yes, but those who learn it really have a hard time using it.

Avalugg and Abomasnow can learn it, and they've got quite nice defenses to keep them from being taken out before they can use the move.

Emboar, Chesnaught and Incineroar dont look like they couldn't learn it?
I understand they love Poliwrath, Throh, Pancham line, Kangasham, Wishmur, Buneary, Riolu, but why not let some starters get it? others got switch option move like dragontail.

I never said it didn't seem like they could learn it, I was asking why you say that starter Pokemon in particular need to learn it.

only if some pokemon would get it? the ability, not psychic terrain...

Gale Wings was only on one evolutionary line, and it was still quite troublesome in Gen 6. Even if just one Pokemon gets an ability that blocks lower-priority moves, those moves are going to suffer a lot-given that a lot of strategies rely on Trick Room, a Pokemon that can shut that down just by being there would become quite common.

if you roll a ice cube what shape does it have? yes I know it could be frozen with the ground....

If you roll an ice cube, it starts to melt, it doesn't become a perfect sphere.

I wonder why not Aura Sphere? it should be abble to hit.

Thematically, Aura Sphere is just shooting a pulse of energy out. If Aura Sphere can hit invulnerable targets, why not Energy Ball or Flame Burst, or any other projectile-based attack?

some psychic type moves like Telekinesis should also work and take ot of that state or not?
lest say psychic is to powerfull and you would need to see the foe directly.

I think it'd be neat to see Telekinesis take off the semi-invulnerability, but letting Psychic moves in general hit a semi-invulnerable target is too much-Psychic-type moves are quite common.

Weird that Surf hits something that Dived under water after 5 generations. But ok, I understand they needed surf lessons to come up with it.

Surf has been able to hit targets using Dive since Dive was first introduced in Gen 3.

Would make sense if Twister, Hurricane ,Brine, Liquidation, Hydro Vortex or Sky Drop(birds hunt for fish).

Twister and Hurricane are supposed to be in the air-not exactly logical to hit a target deep underwater.

I can see Brine fitting this-it's weird that the description for the move just mentions mechanics, and not its theme.

Liquidation, I think, would be kind of silly-they're already in water, how is more water going to hurt them? Might as well add Water Gun or Scald to the list.

Hydro Vortex, definitely-Whirlpool already can, so the precedent is definitely there.

Sky Drop would be a pretty interesting one-though I feel like it might get irritating for players to have a Pokemon locked into two turns where they can't do anything.