Moves & Abilities Discussion/Speculation

[Matleo]

I never said it didn't seem like they could learn it, I was asking why you say that starter Pokemon in particular need to learn it.

look of amount of dragon tail starter users and those with other switching options like U-turn...
I think let some others have some fun using them.

If you roll an ice cube, it starts to melt, it doesn't become a perfect sphere.

one good argument that it melts, but it would work a little other things in real physics where the rolling object by moving very fast everything then bevomes a sphere if you know what I have on mind.
Take that the frozen one could use inner strenght or unfrozen feet or psychic force to start the spin/rolling proces.

Aura Sphere

in the past Aura Sphere worked like Aerial Ace. Even they mentioned in the DP anime when Lucarios Aura S. hit Chimchar.

Sky Drop would be a pretty interesting one-though I feel like it might get irritating for players to have a Pokemon locked into two turns where they can't do anything.

I can see Brine fitting this-it's weird that the description for the move just mentions mechanics, and not its theme.

I think it'd be neat to see Telekinesis take off the semi-invulnerability

Then atleast this should really happen to make more in battle relations between moves, types and pokemon.
let Sky Drop work when hittting a underwater target , not every one is part flying and would make a good twist in some battles and Braviary more interesting.
Imagine also If it would be supereffective against water pokemon in that state or every time?

 

[TechSkylander1518]

look of amount of dragon tail starter users and those with other switching options like U-turn...
I think let some others have some fun using them.

Sorry, I'm not quite being clear-I completely agree that it'd be nice to have more starters get access to switching moves like that. What I'm wondering is why you're bringing up starter Pokemon in particular, when a lot of other Pokemon don't have access to Dragon Tail or Circle Throw.

one good argument that it melts, but it would work a little other things in real physics where the rolling object by moving very fast everything then bevomes a sphere if you know what I have on mind.
Take that the frozen one could use inner strenght or unfrozen feet or psychic force to start the spin/rolling proces.

Well, some things do become spherical when rolled, but these are usually more malleable substances-ice is pretty brittle.

I do see where you're coming from, though, and it'd be cool (pun intended) to have moves that work while a target is frozen, similar to Snore and Sleep Talk working while a Pokemon is asleep. (although they might not get as much use, since there aren't any moves that freeze the user like Rest puts the user to sleep)

in the past Aura Sphere worked like Aerial Ace. Even they mentioned in the DP anime when Lucarios Aura S. hit Chimchar.

It still does work like Aerial Ace. My point is that moves that hit targets in a semi-invulnerable stage are based on the design of the moves themselves, not the battle mechanics of the move. (Swift actually originally could hit a target during Dig or Fly, but this was changed in Gen 2-I don't think they're likely to change it back)

Then atleast this should really happen to make more in battle relations between moves, types and pokemon.
let Sky Drop work when hittting a underwater target , not every one is part flying and would make a good twist in some battles and Braviary more interesting.
Imagine also If it would be supereffective against water pokemon in that state or every time?

Braviary's not the only one who can learn Sky Drop-two other lines learn it by leveling up, and it is a TM. (It would be a fun twist, though)

I think being super effective against Water-type Pokemon would be a bit too much-not all Water types are based on fish, after all.

 

[Matleo]

bringing up starter Pokemon in particular

yes i know that, but starters should be somewhat special, atleast some of the weaker ones with many disadvantages should get something.

I think being super effective against Water-type Pokemon would be a bit too much-not all Water types are based on fish, after all.

yes better let it hit through Dive alone, that would be nice and enough.
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I do see where you're coming from, though, and it'd be cool (pun intended) to have moves that work while a target is frozen, similar to Snore and Sleep Talk working while a Pokemon is asleep. (although they might not get as much use, since there aren't any moves that freeze the user like Rest puts the user to sleep)

I always wondered why some psyhcic type pokomen could not use some psychic or ghost type moves during sleep phase? some ghost type and psychic type moves should work during sleep phase.

a move working during frozen status would need to be strong, maybe even free user out of freeze or make him not thaw at all afterwards? we have some fire type attacks that free from freeze do that already, weird that electric or poison attacks dont do the same,

Could be a ice that works when you are frozen, something like Shel Trap, maybe Arctic Trap or Arctic Rush power 150 you could create ice pilars that create on the ground would hit your foe.
But ice type pokemon are immune to frozen stats.
(but maybe they will change that like they did with Corrosion-"this one with a starter pokemon and Baneful Buncker")

But maybe some ice attacks of non ice type pokemon could activate during frozen stats.
Like icy wind.

Switch your freeze status with the oponent that would be nice.
A move that uses the Freeze status as a Shield then frees the user and maybe could freeze the oponent but that would be to risky.

For me personally they could make moves like Frenzy Plant , Focus Punch(its frozen it takes damage but the ice gets hit) work during freeze or even free from freeze.
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now Im waiting for things against special attackers:

what about a psychic type "shield based"(Protect,Banneful Buncker) move that could drain out oponents hp when hit by a special oriented attack from oponent?
(like reverse Drain Punch depending on power of oponents move)
Could see something like this on Delphox , Decidueye and other pokemons who need this more then Protect. (they have low def and good sp. def that could come in handy.)

Or it could be a ghost type move(that makes oponent frozen???). Whats better?

 

[TechSkylander1518]

yes i know that, but starters should be somewhat special, atleast some of the weaker ones with many disadvantages should get something.

I think you're gonna have to elaborate a little more on what you mean by disadvantages for me to understand. Most starters tend to have a pretty nice movepool and stats, I don't really see where they lag behind.

I always wondered why some psyhcic type pokomen could not use some psychic or ghost type moves during sleep phase? some ghost type and psychic type moves should work during sleep phase.

I think it'd be pretty interesting to add some moves that would work, but I don't think any of the moves we have now really fit that idea. (And then we run into the problem of Rest+good offensive move)

a move working during frozen status would need to be strong, maybe even free user out of freeze or make him not thaw at all afterwards? we have some fire type attacks that free from freeze do that already, weird that electric or poison attacks dont do the same,

Hm, I can get some Poison-type moves like Acid Spray thawing out a Pokemon, but I don't really see how Electric-type attacks would thaw out the user.

now Im waiting for things against special attackers:

what about a psychic type "shield based"(Protect,Banneful Buncker) move that could drain out oponents hp when hit by a special oriented attack from oponent?
(like reverse Drain Punch depending on power of oponents move)
Could see something like this on Delphox , Decidueye and other pokemons who need this more then Protect. (they have low def and good sp. def that could come in handy.)

Or it could be a ghost type move(that makes oponent frozen???). Whats better?

Those both sound like pretty fun ideas! I especially like the Ghost type getting a chance for freezing-it seems strange that we haven't got anything referencing a "chill down your spine" with them like that.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Hm, I can get some Poison-type moves like Acid Spray thawing out a Pokemon, but I don't really see how Electric-type attacks would thaw out the user.

Thunder Wave I guess? Thunder Wave will break the ice, and instead paralyse the target?

 

[Matleo]

I think you're gonna have to elaborate a little more on what you mean by disadvantages for me to understand. Most starters tend to have a pretty nice movepool and stats, I don't really see where they lag behind.

Chesnaught would really need Circle Throw, to switch out some of its oponents due the fact of its low speed.
Emboar as a sumo fighter and Incineroar as heel wrestler would deserve it due to their respective fighter class motives.
Taking that all three have similar body posture.

How many starters get U-turn? how many Dragon Tail?
In future if we get secondary typed electric starters they will probably get acces to Volt Switch.

I think it'd be pretty interesting to add some moves that would work, but I don't think any of the moves we have now really fit that idea. (And then we run into the problem of Rest+good offensive move)

other question if the user sleeps and would want to use Nightmare on its oponent that doesnt sleep, should it posibble to use the move other way around and materialize your own Nighmare to attack the foe? you know mind games for psychic pokemon. Its weird if you think of it, but psychic type pokemon that sleep should be allowed to use some of their psychic type moves when they self are under sleep.

Hm, I can get some Poison-type moves like Acid Spray thawing out a Pokemon, but I don't really see how Electric-type attacks would thaw out the user.

Yes Acid Spray, Acid, Gastro Acid(would need a extra effect like this, instant thawing not only ability neutralizing) , Venoshock, Sludge, Sludge Wave, Sludge Bomb.
That would allow some poison types and this moves to shine even more not only on fairies.

Electric energy also generates a concrete amount heat when going through a conductor(objects).
Thats why lighting is the source of bush burns in the australian out-back or i LA.
Thats why some steels, metals and wires burn or melt under too high voltage or when there time of usage comes to an end. (a electric attack supper efective against steel types)

Faster thawing should be posibble depending on kind of move, strenght and so on.

If we think of relations between fire , electric , poison you would be amazed what physics could be used.

Some acids, poisons are used to colect electric energy.
(electric attack super effective against poison types and a poison type attack super effective against electric types)
A poison type with volt absorb or Motor Drice would make sense, even a pure poison type or water/poison or flying/poison type.
A Battery looses its energy when extrem colds but you use them also to activate engines.

Some acids when come in reaction with fire explode or burn faster.(fire attack super effective against poison types and a poison type attack super effective against fire types comes in mind)

-ps. they could make a relation between them or make them seperate as new ones.

Cold takes away heat and energy, a hp draining motive for ice types.
(could see a ice type version of Dream Eater but for the frozen status and a ice type with ability that by contact of oponent attacking you 30% chance of freezing the target)

Not to mention that steel when under extreem cold science experiments can break in thousand pieces. (ice attack super effective against steel types)

Thunder Wave I guess? Thunder Wave will break the ice, and instead paralyse the target?

Thunder Wave would be perfect, especially if you could use your own move on your self when you are a electric type with it, then you wouldnt get paralyze but coold get free yourself. (using some of your moves against your self should be posibble by now, not only of your teammates in double battles)

Zing Zap, Wild Charge, Volt Tackle should be made more like Flame Wheel when it comes to freeze stats but with 50% chance of thawing. Not that hey thaw instatnly. Weird tht Flame Charge dont mentions thawing from ice stats when used by the user. But robably if you use scald or others like Beak Blast it should be able in future to thaw out a pokemon out of freeze with them too.
(this way freeze status wouldnt be so frightening and they could create more for ice type and others)

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Chesnaught would really need Circle Throw, to switch out some of its oponents due the fact of its low speed.
Emboar as a sumo fighter and Incineroar as heel wrestler would deserve it due to their respective fighter class motives.
Taking that all three have similar body posture.

How many starters get U-turn? how many Dragon Tail?
In future if we get secondary typed electric starters they will probably get acces to Volt Switch.

I can definitely see all three of them getting Circle Throw, though I don't see why Chesnaught's low speed means it needs a switching move on an opponent.

Starters that can learn U-Turn include the Chimchar line, the Froakie line, the Litten line, and Decidueye.

Starters that can learn Dragon Tail include Charizard, Meganium, Feraligatr, Serperior, and Samurott.

They've actually got just about the same amount of starters that learn them. (and the Torchic line also has access to a move to switch out the user-Baton Pass is an egg move for it)

I think it's worth mentioning, though, that switching out an opponent and switching out with a move aren't quite 1:1. Switching the user out has more control involved-the players get to pick which Pokemon they send out, while one that switches the target is randomized. They're also used for different purposes-

And while it's certainly possible that future starters may get more switching moves, it's all up in the air for now, not really a point worth basing anything on.

other question if the user sleeps and would want to use Nightmare on its oponent that doesnt sleep, should it posibble to use the move other way around and materialize your own Nighmare to attack the foe? you know mind games for psychic pokemon. Its weird if you think of it, but psychic type pokemon that sleep should be allowed to use some of their psychic type moves when they self are under sleep.

I think that could be a pretty cool move! The trouble, though, is balancing that out with Rest. The whole idea of Rest is that the user is healing themselves in exchange for being put under a status condition. (or having to have a consumable held item, in the case of using a Chesto Berry) With a move that could be used both while the user is awake and asleep (Snore and Sleep Talk can only be used while sleeping), there's a bit of a problem.

Yes Acid Spray, Acid, Gastro Acid(would need a extra effect like this, instant thawing not only ability neutralizing) , Venoshock, Sludge, Sludge Wave, Sludge Bomb.
That would allow some poison types and this moves to shine even more not only on fairies.

I'm all for letting Poison moves get something special, but I don't really see how the Sludge moves would thaw the user out. They're just hurling unsanitary substances at the target, not any kind of acid.

Electric energy also generates a concrete amount heat when going through a conductor(objects).
Thats why lighting is the source of bush burns in the australian out-back or i LA.
Thats why some steels, metals and wires burn or melt under too high voltage or when there time of usage comes to an end. (a electric attack supper efective against steel types)

Electricity and heat are two different forms of energy. While electricity does generate usually an amount of heat when conducted, it's not a concrete amount; it generally depends on the conductor. (There's actually been a recent discovery of a metal that conducts electricity, but not heat, known as Vanadium oxide)

Some acids, poisons are used to colect electric energy.
(electric attack super effective against poison types and a poison type attack super effective against electric types)

I like the idea of making a Poison-type attack super effective against Electric-types with that concept in mind, but I don't understand where the Electric-type attack super effective against Poison-types fits in.

Some acids when come in reaction with fire explode or burn faster.(fire attack super effective against poison types and a poison type attack super effective against fire types comes in mind)

-ps. they could make a relation between them or make them seperate as new ones.

That sounds like it'd be pretty neat! (it'd be interesting if it hit surrounding Pokemon with the explosion, too!)

Cold takes away heat and energy, a hp draining motive for ice types.
(could see a ice type version of Dream Eater but for the frozen status and a ice type with ability that by contact of oponent attacking you 30% chance of freezing the target)

An HP draining move for Ice-types sounds neat, but I think having it based on the freeze status might be a bit of a struggle for it-it's better to have it not dependent on a status condition.

Thunder Wave would be perfect, especially if you could use your own move on your self when you are a electric type with it, then you wouldnt get paralyze but coold get free yourself. (using some of your moves against your self should be posibble by now, not only of your teammates in double battles)

I think it's prevented because pretty much no offensive moves right now would have any benefit to being used on the user. (After all, we have the orbs for status conditions) It'd also give single battles an extra menu to select targets in, which would be a bit tedious.

Zing Zap, Wild Charge, Volt Tackle should be made more like Flame Wheel when it comes to freeze stats but with 50% chance of thawing. Not that hey thaw instatnly. Weird tht Flame Charge dont mentions thawing from ice stats when used by the user. But robably if you use scald or others like Beak Blast it should be able in future to thaw out a pokemon out of freeze with them too.
(this way freeze status wouldnt be so frightening and they could create more for ice type and others)

Flame Charge doesn't actually thaw the user, so that's probably why it doesn't mention it.

Scald actually does thaw the user already. Beak Blast does seem like a good candidate to add, though.

 

[Matleo]

Chesnaught's low speed

changing a oponent during a battle if you are low on speed is very important.
And Circle Throw has ( -3) priority.
The same goes for Emboar, if you are slow then let it atleast have a randomly chance to switch a oponent.

I don't understand where the Electric-type attack super effective against Poison-types fits in.

Some acids burn in reaction with electricyty if the level of it is to high.

I'm all for letting Poison moves get something special, but I don't really see how the Sludge moves would thaw the user out. They're just hurling unsanitary substances at the target, not any kind of acid.

here you are right. Better they would buff the acid ones.

An HP draining move for Ice-types sounds neat, but I think having it based on the freeze status might be a bit of a struggle for it-it's better to have it not dependent on a status condition.

yes, that would be better.

I think it's prevented because pretty much no offensive moves right now would have any benefit to being used on the user. (After all, we have the orbs for status conditions) It'd also give single battles an extra menu to select targets in, which would be a bit tedious.

really? think of it a pokemon with Volt Absorb could use a electric attack against itself and gain hp. That would make up for more strategies.
I always wondered why electric terrain doesnt activate Electrivires speed rising ability, it should, maybe not every turn , but only one stage after it gets on Electric Terrain?

Flame Charge doesn't actually thaw the user, so that's probably why it doesn't mention it.

maybe better that it doesnt but it could rise it chance of doing it.

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new ideas:

Tar Pit : ground ("poison"? but how would a tar pit swallow a flying bird from the ground if its very high),
-BP: 70 (becuse its a priority move like Sucker Punch and poisons the foe) ,
-poisones the foe afterwards,
-priority (+2) to hit fast pokes like Greninja,
-activates only if oponent uses a special or status move and prevents/blocks the use of the oponents move (with exception of agility, Magnet rise, and the one that cause floiting) on the same turn.
If oponent uses a physical move, this move will fail. (he can run out of the tar pit that is been created under him)
(in that time it canno't "move" and can be hit by it. When using physical moves you move faster and by special or status moves you need to stand still for a moment to use them)
-Something like a "Sucker Punch" for some pokemon.
-This move together with those what can take away flying or levitate may get in handy.
-Wanted something like Shel Trap but with rised priority and agains't special attackers.

for Muk, Mudbray line, Sandygast line and pokemon that are based on mud, tar, or even for some fire types like Camerupt.
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Lethargy: this one needs more thinking and time.
normal typed, causes frozen status to change into sleep status and heals every turn,
I dont know how to make it work for Komala.
if hit by ice type move it heals up?
Or it could change the users ability into Comatose and prevent freezing and free from freeze?
But the user could use its attacks.
I dont know whats better?

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

changing a oponent during a battle if you are low on

really? think of it a pokemon with Volt Absorb could use a electric attack against itself and gain hp. That would make up for more strategies.
I always wondered why electric terrain doesnt activate Electrivires speed rising ability, it should.

Also, I think Raichu, and other lighting rod users should get their special attack boost in electric Terrain, after all, a lightening rod tail would attract the electric Terrain's electricity, wouldn't it? Or if you want to buff it even more, Electrivire's motor dive (also applies to other motor drive users) would increase speed stat every turn till Electric terrain is active. Same for Raichu, and lightning rod users, but with special attack.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

changing a oponent during a battle if you are low on speed is very important.
And Circle Throw has ( -3) priority.
The same goes for Emboar, if you are slow then let it atleast have a randomly chance to switch a oponent.

Why is it so important? It's not likely that another Pokemon sent out is going to be slower. Better to just work with what you have than risk getting a Pokemon with STAB against you sent out.

Some acids burn in reaction with electricyty if the level of it is to high.

Isn't that more due to the

really? think of it a pokemon with Volt Absorb could use a electric attack against itself and gain hp. That would make up for more strategies.

I can see that being useful, but with options like Leftovers, Sitrus Berries, and Wish, I don't think it'd be used that much. (Especially given how few Pokemon have Volt Absorb)

I always wondered why electric terrain doesnt activate Electrivires speed rising ability, it should, maybe not every turn , but only one stage after it gets on Electric Terrain?

I think that'd be a good addition!

new ideas:

Tar Pit : ground ("poison"? but how would a tar pit swallow a flying bird from the ground if its very high),
-BP: 70 (becuse its a priority move like Sucker Punch and poisons the foe) ,
-poisones the foe afterwards,
-priority (+2) to hit fast pokes like Greninja,
-activates only if oponent uses a special or status move and prevents/blocks the use of the oponents move (with eception of agility, Magnet rise, and the one that cause floiting) on the same turn.
If oponent uses a physical move, this move will fail. (he can run out of the tar pit that is been created under him)
(in that time it canno't "move" and can be hit by it. When using physical moves you move faster and by special or status moves you need to stand still for a moment to use them)
-Something like a "Sucker Punch" for some pokemon.
-This move together with those what can take away flying or levitate may get in handy.
-Wanted something like Shel Trap but with rised priority and agains't special attackers.

for Muk, Mudbray line, Sandygast line and pokemon that are based on mud, tar, or even for some fire types like Camerupt.

That sounds like a pretty cool idea!

Also, I think Raichu, and other lighting rod users should get their special attack boost in electric Terrain, after all, a lightening rod tail would attract the electric Terrain's electricity, wouldn't it? Or if you want to buff it even more, Electrivire's motor dive (also applies to other motor drive users) would increase speed stat every turn till Electric terrain is active. Same for Raichu, and lightning rod users, but with special attack.

I like that idea, but I think it should only go for once it's activated, like the Electric Seed. A constant boost like Speed Boost on top of all the other perks would be a little too OP.

 

[Ereshkigal]

Related to electric types (and I apologize if this has been brought up before), but why can't Surf cause a battlefield condition that enhances the effectiveness of electric type moves?

 

[TouyaShiro]

why can't Surf cause a battlefield condition that enhances the effectiveness of electric type moves?

It doesn't cause electricity, it's just a good conductor - and that stuff disappears just as quickly as it arrived, at least to me it does. Surf causing Electric Terrain would also be much more of a detriment to 90% of Water-types should they face opposition in an Electric-type...

 

[Matleo]

I can see that being useful, but with options like Leftovers, Sitrus Berries, and Wish, I don't think it'd be used that much. (Especially given how few Pokemon have Volt Absorb)

Flash fire and fire attacks, Water Absorb and water attacks, Sap sipper and grass attacks.
There are more options for this.
There are more options.
Physical moves? If your poke is confused it could use a attack at itself and maybe by accident hit the oponent instead?
Maybe it could relate with fire type moves and freeing from freeze?

That sounds like a pretty cool idea!

Yes, Tar Pit would look really could in the anime too, imagine a dark blob appers under the oponent pokemon that sucks him in and the tar cathing it and sucking it in the ground and then throwing him out and making him get poisoned.
I think it would be a special ground attack, becuse it would come from the ground like Earth Power does.
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What if sound attacks could free a pokemon that uses it from freeze status condition?
(but not cause damage or have a % Chance of freeing and damaging the foe???)

Sound waves can break glass, why then not ice? That would be cool if Metal Sound and other sound attacks could do that and hit the oponent. Maye then freeze status would not need to change at all. This way we would get more moves that could free the pokes from this status condition and more people would be happy.

and make one new sound move that could cause freezing the oponent, I watched somewhere that sound waves can be used to lower temperaturę and be used in Fridges in future.
_______________________________________________
Remember my idea with the physical and special type immunities as abilities?
The dragon/ghost immune to special attaks?
what if the ability would work like "Protect" that the chance rate of activation every next turn would fall down:
first turn 100%,
second 50%,
third and further 25%,
then they could have biger sp. def , def and hp and could have better movesets and diffrent typing.
Switching out and then in would re-chargé/ reactivate the ability from the start.

 

[Ereshkigal]

It doesn't cause electricity, it's just a good conductor - and that stuff disappears just as quickly as it arrived, at least to me it does. Surf causing Electric Terrain would also be much more of a detriment to 90% of Water-types should they face opposition in an Electric-type...

Rain Dance is a water-type move that enhances the accuracy of the electric-type move Thunder. So, that detriment is already part of the game to a degree.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Flash fire and fire attacks, Water Absorb and water attacks, Sap sipper and grass attacks.

Water Absorb has the same situation as Volt Absorb.

Sap Sipper is just silly-if you want to boost your Attack, you could use Swords Dance and boost it by two stages instead of one, and save PP on your offensive move.

Flash Fire is in a similar situation-why not just use Sunny Day? Or boost Attack/Special Attack instead of just boosting it for Fire-type moves?

Maybe it could relate with fire type moves and freeing from freeze?

There are already Fire-type attacks that will thaw the user before they attack the opponent. Nobody is going to want to attack themselves when they could attack their opponent and get the same perk.

What if sound attacks could free a pokemon that uses it from freeze status condition?
(but not cause damage or have a % Chance of freeing and damaging the foe???)

Sound waves can break glass, why then not ice? That would be cool if Metal Sound and other sound attacks could do that and hit the oponent. Maye then freeze status would not need to change at all. This way we would get more moves that could free the pokes from this status condition and more people would be happy.

It sounds interesting, but I don't think it fixes the problem. The issue most people seem to have isn't that there aren't move to free a frozen Pokemon-it's that without those moves, a Pokemon could be stuck for a large number of turns, in comparison to sleep, which only lasts 1-3.

and make one new sound move that could cause freezing the oponent, I watched somewhere that sound waves can be used to lower temperaturę and be used in Fridges in future.

Where did you see this? I tried to google it, but I'm just finding pages that talk about how lower temperatures slow down the speed that sound travels at.

Remember my idea with the physical and special type immunities as abilities?
The dragon/ghost immune to special attaks?
what if the ability would work like "Protect" that the chance rate of activation every next turn would fall down:
first turn 100%,
second 50%,
third and further 25%,
then they could have biger sp. def , def and hp and could have better movesets and diffrent typing.
Switching out and then in would re-chargé/ reactivate the ability from the start.

I think that would work far better as a move than an ability. An ability that stops working altogether probably wouldn't be too popular. (and then there's the balancing issues of having a Pokemon able to protect itself and attack at the same time)

 

[TouyaShiro]

Rain Dance is a water-type move that enhances the accuracy of the electric-type move Thunder. So, that detriment is already part of the game to a degree.

At least that part makes sense because it only increases accuracy and not power, and at least in terms of actual meteorology it works... I don't get how Surf alone should be detrimental in a similar way if no other water move can engage a similar effect of a lingering Electric Terrain - some moves are heavier in terms of water output compared to Surf, or at least equal, and you don't suggest they could do that?

tl;dr: Muddy Water becomes best water move in the game

 

[Ereshkigal]

At least that part makes sense because it only increases accuracy and not power, and at least in terms of actual meteorology it works... I don't get how Surf alone should be detrimental in a similar way if no other water move can engage a similar effect of a lingering Electric Terrain - some moves are heavier in terms of water output compared to Surf, or at least equal, and you don't suggest they could do that?

tl;dr: Muddy Water becomes best water move in the game

Surf has always been a move that floods the entire battlefield and affects all enemies. There are moves that are heavier in water output, but don't do that. Any that does affect the entire battlefield like Surf does... I could see an argument they should all have that effect.

I just chose Surf because it's easier to get one move to accept something like this and then others, and Surf is a very old and pretty iconic move.

 

[TouyaShiro]

True, true. With that in mind, though, I think we do have to consider this, at least - the conditions in which each Pokémon is able to induce Terrain. Obviously, there's the four moves, and then there's the Surge abilities which engage it on switch-in and start of battle, but so far, the only case we've seen of Terrain being induced by anything other than those moves is a Z-Move, Genesis Supernova - and exclusive to Mew, at that.

Putting Electric Terrain's effect on Surf would probably be a lot more chaotic than any of those situations above - Electric Terrain itself would be rendered redundant, many Water-types are able to engage something that is, unless they have immunity to it by ability or type, solely detrimental to them most of the time, and even in a doubles setting it's difficult to work with since you're forced to Protect your partner before the effect engages!

 

[Ereshkigal]

I admit I try to avoid double and triple battles, so I wasn't thinking about that. That's an excellent reason not to do it in the games.

I'll stick that in my "fanfic only, bad game mechanics" folder.

 

[Matleo]

Where did you see this? I tried to google it, but I'm just finding pages that talk about how lower temperatures slow down the speed that sound travels at.

Thermoacoustic engines

are thermoacoustic devices which use high-amplitude sound waves to pump heat from one place to another, or conversely use a heat difference to induce high-amplitude sound waves. In general, thermoacoustic engines can be divided into standing wave and travelling wave devices. These two types of thermoacoustics devices can again be divided into two thermodynamic classes, a prime mover (or simply heat engine), and a heat pump. The prime mover creates work using heat, whereas a heat pump creates or moves heat using work. Compared to vapor refrigerators, thermoacoustic refrigerators have no ozone-depleting or toxic coolant and few or no moving parts therefore require no dynamic sealing or lubrication.[1]

I think that would work far better as a move than an ability. An ability that stops working altogether probably wouldn't be too popular. (and then there's the balancing issues of having a Pokemon able to protect itself and attack at the same time)

yes , that would be a problem, but Disquise works well or not?
the other option is the right combo of its stats and moveset.
I thin that we got so many pokemon, and so many moves now that it would be a problem anymore, and many Alolan and slow pokemon would then shine in taking down pokemon with this kind of abilities.

It sounds interesting, but I don't think it fixes the problem. The issue most people seem to have isn't that there aren't move to free a frozen Pokemon-it's that without those moves, a Pokemon could be stuck for a large number of turns, in comparison to sleep, which only lasts 1-3.

Some like Boom Burst and those who do demage should free in the first turn like fire attacks.

Water Absorb has the same situation as Volt Absorb.

Sap Sipper is just silly-if you want to boost your Attack, you could use Swords Dance and boost it by two stages instead of one, and save PP on your offensive move.

Flash Fire is in a similar situation-why not just use Sunny Day? Or boost Attack/Special Attack instead of just boosting it for Fire-type moves?

in some situtations when your moves get blocked
(hope they will create in future more moves that block other pokes moves like some abilities do too) that could turn out handy, would allow for more movepool creations from the movesets.
Only a idea. If you can use something on some body what not on your self, in the anime they used that a lot, what not use it in the games? water attacks could help to get of powder and so on.
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Water Sport or the Rain condition theoretically should also block "powder", "smog", "gas" based moves
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remember Miracle Eye ? what if we got something that removes also fairy types imunity to dragon?
maybe the same move could do both things?what do you think? psychic types then would get used more.

makes me wonder if we ever get a 3 eye psychic pokemon with ability to cause you flinch if you try to attack it with a physical contact move, that would work only the first time when send in battle?
or one that would be immune to all magic based moves(magic fire, magical leaf) and fairy moves?
We had Abra, Kadabra and Alakazam, in future there could be also also Shazam, Hocus pocus or Spellbinder?
Hocus pocus