My Big Problem with the Pokémon Anime - An Essay and a Rant

[marshiyanmisuta]

I'm expecting something low-key like pancake race with limited competitors and few coverage, which makes it relatively unimportant in fans and characters' eyes.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I'm expecting something low-key like pancake race with limited competitors and few coverage, which makes it relatively unimportant in fans and characters' eyes.

It seems a bit much to expect something so low key for something like the first Alola League, especially when it hasn't been brought up in the series yet. I fully expect that it will be brought up, but Ash being the first Alola Champion would not be unimportant to at least the characters' point of view. That shouldn't be unimportant to fans either, but after what happened with the Kalos League, I'm not sure if fans would be that excited for another League, or at least actually expect Ash to win the next time either.

 

[SinnohEevee]

So is Battle Frontier.

But it's not a League. If it was a League, A

It seems a bit much to expect something so low key for something like the first Alola League, especially when it hasn't been brought up in the series yet. I fully expect that it will be brought up, but Ash being the first Alola Champion would not be unimportant to at least the characters' point of view. That shouldn't be unimportant to fans either, but after what happened with the Kalos League, I'm not sure if fans would be that excited for another League, or at least actually expect Ash to win the next time either.

And the fans would be right to not expect Ash to become Champion. I see that it has 0% change of happening, unless they realize that even after becoming Champion, Ash would still travel.
Heck! A Champion doesn't need to stay in their region, Ash could come back to Alola when someone wants to challenge him, which doesn't happen often.
Cynthia too travels.

 

[Daren]

I think him winning the ALola league is slightly (like 3% ) possible, but I think it's more likely they'll just make it clear he'll lose from the previews again to avoid another firestorm like last year.

That shouldn't be unimportant to fans either, but after what happened with the Kalos League, I'm not sure if fans would be that excited for another League, or at least actually expect Ash to win the next time either.

After Kalos it's physically impossible for this show to hype me for anything.

 

[SinnohEevee]

Did they give the fans false hopes?

 

[Daren]

Did they give the fans false hopes?

There were things that gave people hope. It was the first time in a while that pre-release episode information didn't make it clear he'd lose--at least as far back as AG we knew he'd lose because there weren't enough episodes for him to win, but this time he got to the finale, it was a two parter, and the summaries for the following episodes gave no indication. There was "will he win this time?!" things in a magazine ad or two, Team Rocket discussed him winning at least once, he apparently talked about how he thinks he's getting closer at the end of BW. There was a lot of hype for it, and when it didn't happen there was a backlash on the internet, and some of the show's stuff commented, one saying he should have won.

 

[Hidden Mew]

After Kalos it's physically impossible for this show to hype me for anything.

That's fair. I can understand that feeling when there was quite a bit more hype for the Kalos League.

Did they give the fans false hopes?

I think it's more like they hyped up the Kalos League a bit too much, especially when its primary purpose was to setup for the actual climax of the series, which still rubs me the wrong way a bit. The Team Flare was great and it is still easily one of the highlights of XY, but that's not what Ash's Kalos journey was leading up to nor was it what I was watching the series for. There's a reason why the Leagues are generally the climax of a journey/series since that's why Ash travels around different regions for.

This was the first time Ash got to the finals of a League, the previews didn't make it clear as to what the outcome of the battle was and a lot of people were so certain that Ash was finally going to beat Alain. As much as I hated how overpowered Alain had become, one could have easily seen that as hyping him up for Ash to defeat after he lost to him twice before. I wouldn't say it was false hope exactly, but rather misleading promotional material.

 

[SinnohEevee]

Since Ash was runner-up at Kalos, I wonder what they will come up with to block his progress, or worse, regress him.

Maybe another Tobias?

 

[Hidden Mew]

Honestly, another Tobias would be preferable over another Alain in my book. Although, I have wondered how they'll handle the Alola League in terms of whether or not they'd do something to make it different from other Leagues and if they'll introduce another way for Ash to lose that would upset fans for years.

 

[Cookies and Creme]

Honestly, another Tobias would be preferable over another Alain in my book. Although, I have wondered how they'll handle the Alola League in terms of whether or not they'd do something to make it different from other Leagues and if they'll introduce another way for Ash to lose that would upset fans for years.

That is, if Alola has a league, which, judging by the games, may not right now, but probably in the future...?

 

[OshyHikari]

Given some of Ash's "classmates" - Kiawe, Lana, Mallow and Sophocles aren't Trial Captains in the anime, and Kukui is lacking his wedding ring, some have implied the SM anime to take place before the SM games. Even TV Tropes seems to pick up on it.

The Alola League was only created late in the game protagonist's journey, so maybe Ash won't even take part in a League this time around if that "SM anime takes place before the games" theory holds true.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Apparently not spoiling the conclusion of the finale match is count as "giving false hopes"? Fans are weird...

 

[Daren]

Apparently not spoiling the conclusion of the finale match is count as "giving false hopes"? Fans are weird...

When you factor in...
*They always spoiled it in the past.
*Ads in magazines talking about how he might win.
*Characters talking about how he might win.
*Alain beats him twice before the league, which is typically used in most shows to set the rival up to be defeated in the main event.

There was more than just "They didn't spoil the conclusion".

 

[Hidden Mew]

That is, if Alola has a league, which, judging by the games, may not right now, but probably in the future...?

I suspect that they'll bring it up later on in the series, probably around the time it was introduced in the games.

Given some of Ash's "classmates" - Kiawe, Lana, Mallow and Sophocles aren't Trial Captains in the anime, and Kukui is lacking his wedding ring, some have implied the SM anime to take place before the SM games. Even TV Tropes seems to pick up on it.

The Alola League was only created late in the game protagonist's journey, so maybe Ash won't even take part in a League this time around if that "SM anime takes place before the games" theory holds true.

That is an interesting theory, but I'm not sure if they'd go in that direction. That would prevent them from adapting the storyline from the games if they just had this set before those events took place. Not to mention stuff like the classmates not being Trial Captains could easily be solved by showing how they became Trial Captains in the show.

Apparently not spoiling the conclusion of the finale match is count as "giving false hopes"? Fans are weird...

I wouldn't belittle fans for getting upset over this when there was more than just not spoiling the conclusion of the final match. I wouldn't go as far as to say it was giving fans false hopes, but the promotional material and the reactions to the Kalos League in the series, like with characters saying that Ash could win, was misleading. If they didn't want Ash to win again, then they could have potentially avoided the backlash, or at least reduced it, by making it clear that Ash was still going to lose. People would have still been annoyed, but I don't think that the immediate reaction to the defeat would have been nearly as bad as it was.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

*They always spoiled it in the past.

Only because they sucks at planning, It's not their masterplan to spoil league results.

*Ads in magazines talking about how he might win.
*Characters talking about how he might win.

It's not diffrent from previous gens.

*Alain beats him twice before the league, which is typically used in most shows to set the rival up to be defeated in the main event.

Only point I agree with it. Yet, they done the same thing with Hikari and Nozomi's rivalry, so it's not unusual for this show.

If they didn't want Ash to win again, then they could have potentially avoided the backlash, or at least reduced it, by making it clear that Ash was still going to lose.

No, that's a horrible way advertise the league. Why would they do that? No one would do that.

 

[SinnohEevee]

It's not like they would suffer much consequences for hyping something and dashing the fans' hopes.
Or maybe Ash losing was a last-minute decision.
Anyways, they are there to advertise and make money, not to please the fans.

 

[Daren]

Only because they sucks at planning, It's not their masterplan to spoil league results.

Intent is irrelevant. The previous times made it obvious, this time they didn't, so it built up hope.

It's not diffrent from previous gens.

In previous gens we knew from the previews he wasn't going to win. Intentional or not it affects how people view things.

No, that's a horrible way advertise the league. Why would they do that? No one would do that.

Considering how they rushed the league they should have focused on advertising the Flare Arc instead instead.
Of course the optimal situation would have been to deliver a satisfying league for the first time in a decade or longer (I guess it depends on if you consider any of the leagues to have been good--I don't), but that's apparently hoping for way too much.

It's not like they would suffer much consequences for hyping something and dashing the fans' hopes.

They certainly thought that. The internet backfire, downvote brigading, images of merchanidse being thrown out appearing for a while, and enough of a ruckus to get people who work on the show to respond suggests they weren't entirely correct, depending on what you consider "consequences". There have been people who've given up on the show from this, though it's impossible to calculate how many.

Anyways, they are there to advertise and make money, not to please the fans.

Hyping up a league than delivering a rushed and incredibly unpopular product doesn't help do either of those things.

Edit: I remain convinced there's some sort of odd meddling from higher up going on with the show's writing. I genuinely feel like at least some of the writers want to let him win--we already know at least some of the staff does--and someone or something is blocking it. I remember how many people thought DP was pointing towards a win than Trollbias was so random and out of nowhere that he felt like unholy intervention.
Edit2: Wow this was a masterpiece of spelling and grammar. Ugh.

 

[Hidden Mew]

No, that's a horrible way advertise the league. Why would they do that? No one would do that.

I wasn't talking about promotional material for the League. I was referring to episode summaries, which is how we knew for sure that Ash would lose before. If fans had read the summaries that made the battles' outcome clear, we wouldn't have had nearly as many people excited for the final battle and then in turn be disappointed/angry once they saw that Ash lost again.

It's not like they would suffer much consequences for hyping something and dashing the fans' hopes.
Or maybe Ash losing was a last-minute decision.
Anyways, they are there to advertise and make money, not to please the fans.

I don't know if Ash's defeat was a last minute decision. There might have been some staff members not in favor of the decision, but considering that the Kalos League served primarily to lead into the Team Flare arc more than anything else, I didn't get the impression that Ash losing was a last minute change. Even Alain winning didn't really factor into much once they had to deal with Team Flare. Pleasing fans does help with making money at least, but I imagine most of the fans really upset over the Kalos League are well outside the target demographic anyway.

They certainly thought that. The internet backfire, downvote brigading, images of merchanidse being thrown out appearing for a while, and enough of a ruckus to get people who work on the show to respond suggests they weren't entirely correct, depending on what you consider "consequences". There have been people who've given up on the show from this, though it's impossible to calculate how many.

Admittedly, while the initial backlash to the Kalos League was pretty intense, I don't know how much of that would actually affect the show or the creative staff involved. Down voting videos on YouTube wouldn't do much and if people really did throw out their Pokemon stuff, then they were just being incredibly wasteful and foolish. Plus, as angry as fans were over the Kalos League, the general tune changed rather quickly. Within just a couple of weeks, people were loving the Team Flare arc, most of the aftermath episodes were received well and XY as a whole still seems to be a really popular Pokemon series. That's why I find it hard to believe that the Kalos League finale resulted in a long lasting backlash against the show or that people have dropped it completely. I'm sure that there are people who are in both categories, but I still see way more praise for XY than anything else in spite of the Kalos League.

Hyping up a league than delivering a rushed and incredibly unpopular product doesn't help do either of those things.

I agree. It says a lot when Ash winning the Kalos League wouldn't have made the whole arc good in my opinion. It would have made it more noteworthy rather than infamous, but there were a ton of problems with the Kalos League well before Ash lost in the finals.

Edit: I remain convinced there's some sort of odd meddling from higher up going on with the show's writing. I genuinely feel like at least some of the writers want to let him win--we already know at least some of the staff does--and someone or something is blocking it. I remember how many people thought DP was pointing towards a win than Trollbias was so random and out of nowhere that he felt like unholy intervention.

Most people thought DP was leading towards a victory due to a combination of Ash's skills being at their peak and Ash vs. Paul in the Sinnoh League finals was reasonable due to how much importance their rivalry had throughout the series. Tobias was thrown in just to defeat Ash, but they didn't really have enough time by that point for Ash to win and go into the Champion League anyway. They may want Ash to lose in order to make it easier to keep him around for another journey, even though being a League Champion wouldn't make him a Pokemon Master or anything like that. The logic is flawed at best, but that might be their mindset or what restrictions they're under in order to keep Ash around.

 

[Daren]

I don't know if Ash's defeat was a last minute decision. There might have been some staff members not in favor of the decision, but considering that the Kalos League served primarily to lead into the Team Flare arc more than anything else, I didn't get the impression that Ash losing was a last minute change.

That's part of what annoys me so much. In theory the entire seies should be building up to the league--it's what the protagonist is aiming for! I didn't care about Team Flare; an evil organization goes down every series, and Flare were shockingly lame in the games and took forever to appear in the show. Sacrificing the league's quality to lead into the story we've seen three times was ridiculous, and Flare didn't do enough different from the previous times (even if it's considered high quality) to be worth it.

Admittedly, while the initial backlash to the Kalos League was pretty intense, I don't know how much of that would actually affect the show or the creative staff involved. Down voting videos on YouTube wouldn't do much and if people really did throw out their Pokemon stuff, then they were just being incredibly wasteful and foolish. Plus, as angry as fans were over the Kalos League, the general tune changed rather quickly. Within just a couple of weeks, people were loving the Team Flare arc, most of the aftermath episodes were received well and XY as a whole still seems to be a really popular Pokemon series. That's why I find it hard to believe that the Kalos League finale resulted in a long lasting backlash against the show or that people have dropped it completely. I'm sure that there are people who are in both categories, but I still see way more praise for XY than anything else in spite of the Kalos League.

Yeah, that's why I said "depending on what you consider consequences"--not like the show's going to be cancelled over it or people will lose their jobs (though from I've read Sun Moon hasn't reversed the trend of lower ratings each series so who knows how long it'll last at this point), but seeing the ugly response couldn't be pleasant for the staff and I'm sure they've lost at least some money (probably not a huge amount) from disgruntled fans giving up on the show.

Most people thought DP was leading towards a victory due to a combination of Ash's skills being at their peak and Ash vs. Paul in the Sinnoh League finals was reasonable due to how much importance their rivalry had throughout the series. Tobias was thrown in just to defeat Ash, but they didn't really have enough time by that point for Ash to win and go into the Champion League anyway. They may want Ash to lose in order to make it easier to keep him around for another journey, even though being a League Champion wouldn't make him a Pokemon Master or anything like that. The logic is flawed at best, but that might be their mindset or what restrictions they're under in order to keep Ash around.

Yeah, I simply don't understand the "if he wins a league the show is over" idea.
Admitedly, I'm from the school of thought that trying to keep Ash around for fear losing him will harm the franchise is silly because I don't think he's worth much at this point--he's assocciated with the franchise, sure...and he's viewed in a mostly negative light, even by a lot of the show's fanbase.

 

[Hidden Mew]

That's part of what annoys me so much. In theory the entire seies should be building up to the league--it's what the protagonist is aiming for! I didn't care about Team Flare; an evil organization goes down every series, and Flare were shockingly lame in the games and took forever to appear in the show. Sacrificing the league's quality to lead into the story we've seen three times was ridiculous, and Flare didn't do enough different from the previous times (even if it's considered high quality) to be worth it.

To be fair, they were foreshadowing Team Flare as early as the first Mega Evolution special. It did take them forever to appear in the series proper, but they didn't suddenly appear out of nowhere, which worked better than at least some of the other evil teams. I agree that they were pretty weak in the games though. I'd say that the Team Flare arc was distinct enough from the other evil team climax, but using the League to buildup to that arc does kind of bother me the more I think about it. It was still a good arc, but that's not what the entire series had been building up to. Ash's Kalos journey was all about traveling through the region to get to the Kalos League, not to defeat Team Flare. Ash and his friends only encountered Team Flare twice during their journey and didn't learn who they were until they attacked Lumiose. If they wanted to make a Team Flare arc feel more like a natural climax to Ash's Kalos journey, then they really should have started to appear sooner than they did, or at least had more confrontations with Ash. A Team Galactic arc back in DP would have felt more natural by comparison because of how prominent they were throughout most of the series.

Yeah, that's why I said "depending on what you consider consequences"--not like the show's going to be cancelled over it or people will lose their jobs (though from I've read Sun Moon hasn't reversed the trend of lower ratings each series so who knows how long it'll last at this point), but seeing the ugly response couldn't be pleasant for the staff and I'm sure they've lost at least some money (probably not a huge amount) from disgruntled fans giving up on the show.

I thought that the ratings were doing fine for SM. I've heard that it still gets to the Top 10 rated shows every week, but I could be mistaken. Regardless, low ratings wouldn't be enough to really hurt the show, especially when ratings are an extremely outdated means of gauging how many people are watching a show. The show exist in order to promote the games and merchandise. As long as the games keep selling like hotcakes, they'll continue the show. They might have lost some money, but since it most likely wasn't a huge amount, fans giving up on the show because of the Kalos League probably won't have any long lasting affects on the show.

Yeah, I simply don't understand the "if he wins a league the show is over" idea.
Admitedly, I'm from the school of thought that trying to keep Ash around for fear losing him will harm the franchise is silly because I don't think he's worth much at this point--he's assocciated with the franchise, sure...and he's viewed in a mostly negative light, even by a lot of the show's fanbase.

I'm not so sure about that. I don't know how children feel about Ash, but most of the negative light around him that I've seen are from people who are well outside of the target demographic. Ash and Pikachu are pretty much a packaged set and he's been the lead for twenty years. He's far too recognizable and iconic, at least as far as the anime is concerned, for them to consider replacing him now and that ship sailed ages ago anyway.