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Pokemon Anime Continuity Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Pokémon Anime and Manga' started by CrystaI, Apr 15, 2017.

  1. CrystaI

    CrystaI The Pokemon Observer

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    Referred back to these thread:
    Pokemon SM is NOT continuation of XY(&Z)
    PREVIEW: - M20: I Choose You!

    With the current M20 information become a big debate on the possibility that it is an alternative universe, what about the TV series? Is the Ash Ketchum we are seeing currently in SM saga the same Ash Ketchum in the past? Is he a new character just with the same name and skin and selective background as his predecessor? Or is he still the same character consistent throughout the entire span of 20 years of Pokemon Anime?

    Of course, someone believed it to be so and some don't and some just refuse to accept this fact(may be it is not fact yet?) So this is the thread for the discussion of Anime's continuity. This thread is not only limited to the change from XY(&Z) to SM nor M20, it also includes anything during the entire run of Pokemon Anime in this 20 years that makes one doubt about its universal consistency. So one is welcome to bring in discussion also from OS/AG/DP/BW or anything related to the Pokemon Anime.
     
    #1 CrystaI, Apr 15, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
  2. Silktree

    Silktree Foresight

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    Reiterating:

     
    #2 Silktree, Apr 15, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
  3. PkmnTrainerV

    PkmnTrainerV Flame Trainer

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    Each of the points, (except the first and second) has some reason to be unconvincing
    Ash's change from DP to BW was jarring.

    It's most likely an AU, a retelling or the like.

    The manga promoting the movie, like the movie, is likely a retelling or an AU.

    Maybe they weren't satisfied with the direction of the anime and left? Or the anime cast maybe wanted new blood in the form of new writers? Or the anime just got a budget cut.

    The anime mostly glosses over the past these days. It is just possible that the writers didn't want to confuse the children or something. And it dosen't prove that the things didn't happen. Ash didn't say that these things happened, but he didn't deny them either.

    Overall, to me, they reflect that the anime is trying to reduce continuity.
     
  4. Silktree

    Silktree Foresight

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    The first two points are honestly enough. But the rest add more context.

    In regard to the original series. As far as SM is concerned, the movie is the relevant origin story. Nothing indicates otherwise.

    Why would a manga promoting a movie strongly imply that it takes place in the same continuity as SM, unless it was true? Explain the rationale.
     
  5. PkmnTrainerV

    PkmnTrainerV Flame Trainer

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    The movie is advertised as a retelling of Ash's original adventure, if I'm not mistaken.

    There are 2 possible reasons:
    1. SM is the most recent anime. They just used it as a base for the movie. I cannot imagine them hunting out BW, XY or DP adventures when they're clearly not recent.

    2. What if in the manga's retelling version
    Movie events happen, ash completes Kanto journey, and the rest of the adventures happen as usual, ending in SM as usual.
     
  6. Silktree

    Silktree Foresight

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    It most certainly is not. You can't just pretend otherwise when the trailer itself calls it an origin story.

    You say that as if the manga needed to show anything that is not already in the movie...

    What reason is there to believe this? He has the exact same hat in the manga as he does in the series, while they made a point of not carrying over his original hat to the movie.
     
  7. PkmnTrainerV

    PkmnTrainerV Flame Trainer

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    Going by the 'quite summary' (since I do not know Japanese), it's described as a 'new world and continuity altogether, which fits in the definition of AU.

    The reason that Ash's manga hat=SM hat
    Ash has got the movie hat when he's in Kanto in the manga. He then change s over hats as usual, till he arrives to Alola with the SM hat.

    And in the movie's AU, it is possible that Ash didn't win his original hat (he was shown to win it, not given by his mom), and thus his mom had to give him one, which is the movie hat.
     
  8. Silktree

    Silktree Foresight

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    Yeah, no. With all due respect to Shadao, he doesn't know Japanese. He was just pointing out the obvious: It is not a retelling of the original series. That has nothing to do with SM.

    The Japanese text says: "Did you know? About how these two first met..."

    That means that they're advertising the movie as an origin story.

    So only his Kanto hat is different? Come on now.
     
  9. PkmnTrainerV

    PkmnTrainerV Flame Trainer

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    That hat has technically the most chance to be different. You're less likely to a lottery twice (Ash got the hat from a lottery or something), than your mother changing your hat's pattern (since the rest of the hats were given by Deila, and not won)
     
  10. Silktree

    Silktree Foresight

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    I'm sorry, but lol. We are talking about a symbolic decision; it has nothing to do with probability.
     
  11. PkmnTrainerV

    PkmnTrainerV Flame Trainer

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    It matters.
    In the Universe we know before the movie, Ash won his hat from a lottery, so Deila didn't have to make one. Ash one from atleast 1000 applicants, which is quite rare.

    In this continuity, Ash also applied for the lottery. In this one, he didn't win for some reason, and Deila had to make him one, which is the Movie Hat.

    Symbolic decisions can be explained though logic. The one I provided is a much more plausible explanation than it being a separate continuity,
     
  12. Silktree

    Silktree Foresight

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    Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

    The writers don't even remember how Ash got the first hat. Seriously.
     
  13. Cresselia92

    Cresselia92 Dream Guardian

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    I wouldn't say that the writers don't remember how he got the hat. More like that it isn't relevant in this circumstance.

    Honestly, I find it baffling that people are questioning the manga itself and considering it an AU of another AU. While it is true that the manga may not be a 100% copy of the movie, past mangas have been very accurate and very close to the final products, so I don't see why it would be any different in this case.

    Besides, why would they even allow an artist to pull such kind of connection between SM and M20 if there wasn't some reason behind it? I doubt seriously that they would simply allow someone to do this just because. Artists have some freedom in their work, sure, but they always have to follow a predetermined plot and instructions, which come from the higher charges. As such, I bet that the connection between the series and the movie has been already made by the anime staff working on them.

    I find it quite hard to believe that they would try to mislead the audience in such way. We are led to believe by the trailers and summaries that the movie illustrates the meeting between Ash and Pikachu, and the manga is leading us toward a SM event that triggers the whole flashback of said meeting. It should be pretty straightforward reasoning, and I kinda doubt that there are obscure implications and false clues behind all of this.
     
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  14. Silktree

    Silktree Foresight

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    From the movie's plot synopsis:

    What do you think the bolded means? They're referring to the SM series.
     
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  15. Sakuraa

    Sakuraa #Hoennhatisbesthat

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    Personally, I still feel it is too early to say that this is an entirely new Ash. I know that there has been a lot to suggest that it is a new universe, but the fact that he mentioned his Tauros in the first episode of Sun and Moon still sticks out to me. That right there is just enough to suggest that this is still the same old Ash for me. Regardless, I'm still going to wait for more information before forming a solid opinion myself.
     
  16. Silktree

    Silktree Foresight

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    Obviously, that won't mean much if he catches a Tauros in the movie.
     
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  17. Sakuraa

    Sakuraa #Hoennhatisbesthat

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    Yeah, but that's only if he does. If doesn't then then the doubt is still understandable.
     
  18. theworldofkevinc

    theworldofkevinc Clefable is the best!

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    Not only does he mention Tauros but (someone has probably pointed this out already but I haven't read the last thread) but also in SM001 in the Lottery Flashback scene we see Ash give 5 pokeballs to Professor Oak. This includes Greninja's and Goodra's empty pokeballs, as well as Talonflame, Noivern, and Hawlucha.
     
  19. Silktree

    Silktree Foresight

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    We don't know what Pokemon are in those balls. They could very well belong to his new Kanto team.

    I get that it was natural to assume the balls were a reference to Kalos, but by now? Not by a long shot.
     
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  20. FANG-TAN

    FANG-TAN 華風流、盛夏の宴に舞い散る!

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    That could have easily been his Kantou team or any other team.
     
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