Pokemon Game in 2017

[StandbyForBattle]

Maybe if "Star" is real, they could expand both alola and kalos, because both of alola and kalos felt incomplete, okay in XY, they could expanded the kalos region with Z, but it never happened, I already finished both sun and moon, that felt incomplete. Maybe GF didn't had enough room for 3DS, to put those material in XY and SuMo. I think there's a reason why they testing on Nintendo Switch, instead of waiting till gen 8 to do so.

But "disappointed" or not, nothing has really happened to indicate to Game Freak that there was a problem with their one-shot approach to XY. Those games were critical/commercial successes, the next games were critical/commercial successes, the games after that were...

Certainly, some of the negative feedback could inform their creative decisions for later games, but I doubt they're going to take any of that as a signal that "just for the sake of it" third versions are a hot ticket.

You do got a point, eventhough, I didn't play XY, but Kalos didn't have a good post-game, and included the southern kalos, they're also some stuff that wasn't covered in XY, so Kalos was a disappointment, it just feel incomplete, so as SuMo.

Spoiler

I suppose we should be expecting South Central Sinnoh in DP remakes, then, if mountains count as vacant space

I don't see any extra spaces for Sinnoh

Is Kalos even smaller than Alola? There are silly clouds on the Alola map, too.

They left that out too, like I said XY and SuMo is incomplete in my opinion, It would be a good idea for GF would expand both Alola and Kalos
Since I expect the 2018 movie to be about Kanto and Mew, they could wait until then to capitalize on the Kanto movies.

The anime itself can promote Stars next year if the rumor is to be believed. Just showcasing any new Alolan forms would do the trick.

If "Star" believes to be true, then they'll probably will promoted, at least we'll see some of the stuff that was scrapped from Sun and Moon, and make it's way into star

 

[Esserise]

You do got a point, eventhough, I didn't play XY, but Kalos didn't have a good post-game, and included the southern kalos, they're also some stuff that wasn't covered in XY, so Kalos was a disappointment, it just feel incomplete, so as SuMo.

If you've never played XY, then I don't know if you're really in a position to be saying how "incomplete" they felt.

Personally, "incomplete" isn't really the word I'd use to describe Kalos or XY. I think I'd probably call them... gaunt. The whole body is there, it's just that some of its muscles aren't fully toned.

 

[Bolt Strike]

But "disappointed" or not, nothing has really happened to indicate to Game Freak that there was a problem with their one-shot approach to XY. Those games were critical/commercial successes, the next games were critical/commercial successes, the games after that were...

Certainly, some of the negative feedback could inform their creative decisions for later games, but I doubt they're going to take any of that as a signal that "just for the sake of it" third versions are a hot ticket.

You're not going to see it as a problem just looking at pure sales because it's a matter of spending as well, and that data isn't publicly available. Third versions work when they reuse assets and squeeze out extra sales from a game that they already made. It's not a matter of the games not selling as much as it is them not maximizing profitability.

If you've never played XY, then I don't know if you're really in a position to be saying how "incomplete" they felt.

You can be depending on what's missing. If it's lacking post game areas or extra features for instance, you can see that those are missing without even starting up the game. I haven't played ORAS either but I don't find the additions satisfying either so I'm reluctant to bother with it (of course in my case it also helps that I played RSE so I have an idea of what was wrong with the original experience).

 

[StandbyForBattle]

If you've never played XY, then I don't know if you're really in a position to be saying how "incomplete" they felt.

Personally, "incomplete" isn't really the word I'd use to describe Kalos or XY. I think I'd probably call them... gaunt. The whole body is there, it's just that some of its muscles aren't fully toned.

Here are couple of reasons, why I think Kalos is incomplete

• The locked Power Plant doors
• The Train Station in Coumarine, Zygarde being left in a cave
• The mentioned Ryhorn Racer thing not being a feature in the game.
• Zygarde quest in Sun and Moon felt like a gimmick, instead of having it's own story
• Southern Kalos wasn't included
• Ash-greninja was also a gimmick, and never had a story or mechanic that relates to his transformation

 

[Esserise]

You're not going to see it as a problem just looking at pure sales because it's a matter of spending as well, and that data isn't publicly available. Third versions work when they reuse assets and squeeze out extra sales from a game that they already made. It's not a matter of the games not selling as much as it is them not maximizing profitability.

I understand that. But I don't think it'd have been beyond the realm of possibility to squeeze a Z game into 2015. So why didn't they do that?

Here are couple of reasons, why I think Kalos is incomplete

• The locked Power Plant doors
• The Train Station in Coumarine, Zygarde being left in a cave
• The mentioned Ryhorn Racer thing not being a feature in the game.
• Zygarde quest in Sun and Moon felt like a gimmick, instead of having it's own story
• Southern Kalos wasn't included
• Ash-greninja was also a gimmick, and never had a story or mechanic that relates to his transformation

All you're doing it quoting points from other people. I'm talking about you specifically - how can you know how you feel about a game you've never played?

From someone who did play XY and didn't come out of it with a feeling of "incompleteness" necessarily, none of these points were really an issue in my mind.

• How do we know the locked Power Plants would have even made worthwhile dungeons? As pure scenery, they demonstrate the technological prowess of Kalos's energy production sector, so even on a visual level, they still have worldbuilding value.
• The Couriway train station is probably there because the town that Couriway is based on has a railway station. It illustrates that it's a tourist destination, thereby characterizing the area. Which I know was the intention, because the town's map descrption spells it out: "The railway brings people from great distances to see the huge, majestic falls." The focus isn't on where the train takes people from Couriway. Couriway is the cool destination, where people come to see the waterfalls.
• They never suggested that Rhyhorn racing was going to be a feature, though. Again, we come here to where just because something could potentially be done, it doesn't mean that it's going to be done or that there were ever any plans to do it. XY are the first games to include (non-Surfing) rideable Pokémon; it stands to reason, from a worldbuilding perspective, that some people would develop this into a sport, but we aren't ever necessarily meant to become involved in that sport ourselves. Could it have worked as a feature? Sure, probably. But the more relevant core concept that Rhyhorn racing extends from (that is, Riding Pokémon) is already in place, and it more integral to our quest through the game since there are points where we can only advance by riding Pokémon.
• Zygarde being left in a cave is pretty par for the course as far as how "third version" Legendary Pokémon are handled in the initial pair of games. It was the case for all of Zygarde's predecessors. They decided to handle it differently by relocating Zygarde to SM, because they realized that a Z game would be a pretty dull idea. If its role in SM felt like a "gimmick" to you, then I reiterate that there probably just wasn't much to say about Zygarde to begin with. Kalos's Legendary trio members plain and simply aren't where the bulk of Kalos's lore is (rather, that's the ancient war and the ultimate weapon). The internal dynamic between Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde is intuitive enough to where it doesn't really need spelling out - life or death going out of balance would be a bad thing, so Zygarde keeps them in check. Seems as though Zygarde does a decent enough job in its homeland to where it can afford to moonlight in Alola.
• "Southern Kalos" in the way that you're meaning it was a fan invention. Like Z-Forms.
• Yes, it was. It was drafted over from the anime because it's the anniversary and Ash-Greninja is popular. The "story" behind it, as described on the official site, is a slight paraphrasing of the exact same story it has in the anime, and the Battle Bond Ability is obviously supposed to be an approximation of that. And this information was all made available to us as soon as Ash-Greninja was revealed to be in SM. They played completely fair when it came to Ash-Greninja - it's not their problem that we read too much into unauthorized leaks.

 

[StandbyForBattle]

All you're doing it quoting points from other people. I'm talking about you specifically - how can you know how you feel about a game you've never played?

From someone who did play XY and didn't come out of it with a feeling of "incompleteness" necessarily, none of these points were really an issue in my mind.

• How do we know the locked Power Plants would have even made worthwhile dungeons? As pure scenery, they demonstrate the technological prowess of Kalos's energy production sector, so even on a visual level, they still have worldbuilding value.
• The Couriway train station is probably there because the town that Couriway is based on has a railway station. It illustrates that it's a tourist destination, thereby characterizing the area. Which I know was the intention, because the town's map descrption spells it out: "The railway brings people from great distances to see the huge, majestic falls." The focus isn't on where the train takes people from Couriway. Couriway is the cool destination, where people come to see the waterfalls.
• They never suggested that Rhyhorn racing was going to be a feature, though. Again, we come here to where just because something could potentially be done, it doesn't mean that it's going to be done or that there were ever any plans to do it. XY are the first games to include (non-Surfing) rideable Pokémon; it stands to reason, from a worldbuilding perspective, that some people would develop this into a sport, but we aren't ever necessarily meant to become involved in that sport ourselves. Could it have worked as a feature? Sure, probably. But the more relevant core concept that Rhyhorn racing extends from (that is, Riding Pokémon) is already in place, and it more integral to our quest through the game since there are points where we can only advance by riding Pokémon.
• Zygarde being left in a cave is pretty par for the course as far as how "third version" Legendary Pokémon are handled in the initial pair of games. It was the case for all of Zygarde's predecessors. They decided to handle it differently by relocating Zygarde to SM, because they realized that a Z game would be a pretty dull idea. If its role in SM felt like a "gimmick" to you, then I reiterate that there probably just wasn't much to say about Zygarde to begin with. Kalos's Legendary trio members plain and simply aren't where the bulk of Kalos's lore is (rather, that's the ancient war and the ultimate weapon). The internal dynamic between Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde is intuitive enough to where it doesn't really need spelling out - life or death going out of balance would be a bad thing, so Zygarde keeps them in check. Seems as though Zygarde does a decent enough job in its homeland to where it can afford to moonlight in Alola.
• "Southern Kalos" in the way that you're meaning it was a fan invention. Like Z-Forms.
• Yes, it was. It was drafted over from the anime because it's the anniversary and Ash-Greninja is popular. The "story" behind it, as described on the official site, is a slight paraphrasing of the exact same story it has in the anime, and the Battle Bond Ability is obviously supposed to be an approximation of that. And this information was all made available to us as soon as Ash-Greninja was revealed to be in SM. They played completely fair when it came to Ash-Greninja - it's not their problem that we read too much into unauthorized leaks.

@Esserise, I don't have to play XY to know it , you do realize, I do have the internet, and I've been on 24 hours a day, and yes I do quote from other, but I still think Kalos and Alola felt incomplete, if XY was complete then why there's no third game or sequel to tie things off. GF would not leave things unfinished without anything to finish it off, 3DS is at there limit, so it make since if they expanded both alola and kalos better on Switch. That just my opinion.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I understand that. But I don't think it'd have been beyond the realm of possibility to squeeze a Z game into 2015. So why didn't they do that?

It wasn't in the realm of possibility to come out with it in 2015, they've never had the capability to release more than 3 games in a row. After BW2, XY, and ORAS they had to take a break. 2016 would've been the ideal time for Z, not 2015.

All you're doing it quoting points from other people. I'm talking about you specifically - how can you know how you feel about a game you've never played?

Easy. Look at the facts, and compare it with what you want out of the game. For instance, if you like a game that has a lot of content and the game doesn't have a lot of content, then obviously you won't like the game.

How do we know the locked Power Plants would have even made worthwhile dungeons? As pure scenery, they demonstrate the technological prowess of Kalos's energy production sector, so even on a visual level, they still have worldbuilding value.

Their value doesn't have to do with being dungeons, as dungeons they'd likely be repetitive. What'd be perfect for them is to contain the means to give Volcanion new forms. But really, anything is better than nothing in this scenario.

The Couriway train station is probably there because the town that Couriway is based on has a railway station. It illustrates that it's a tourist destination, thereby characterizing the area. Which I know was the intention, because the town's map descrption spells it out: "The railway brings people from great distances to see the huge, majestic falls." The focus isn't on where the train takes people from Couriway. Couriway is the cool destination, where people come to see the waterfalls.

The problem with that is that it's pure aesthetics. That adds next to nothing in terms of content, it makes it a filler town that exists just to be another area. Having the train station actually function in the game would give the area a gameplay purpose.

They never suggested that Rhyhorn racing was going to be a feature, though. Again, we come here to where just because something could potentially be done, it doesn't mean that it's going to be done or that there were ever any plans to do it. XY are the first games to include (non-Surfing) rideable Pokémon; it stands to reason, from a worldbuilding perspective, that some people would develop this into a sport, but we aren't ever necessarily meant to become involved in that sport ourselves. Could it have worked as a feature? Sure, probably. But the more relevant core concept that Rhyhorn racing extends from (that is, Riding Pokémon) is already in place, and it more integral to our quest through the game since there are points where we can only advance by riding Pokémon.

Again, this is a case where it's aesthetics and worldbuilding over gameplay. Each region has its own gameplay features to give not only the region itself, but the gameplay a bit of character. Johto has Pokeathlon. Hoenn has Contests and Secret Bases. Sinnoh has Contests and Sinnoh Underground. Unova has Musicals, Join Avenue, and Pokestar Studios. Alola has Festival Plaza and Poke Pelago. What does Kalos have to characterize its gameplay? Minimalist battle facilities that you can find in pretty much any region? An online interface that should really be a series standard? Rhyhorn Racing is perfect for this purpose, it adds gameplay content unique to the region and gives Kalos a unique identity.

Zygarde being left in a cave is pretty par for the course as far as how "third version" Legendary Pokémon are handled in the initial pair of games. It was the case for all of Zygarde's predecessors. They decided to handle it differently by relocating Zygarde to SM, because they realized that a Z game would be a pretty dull idea. If its role in SM felt like a "gimmick" to you, then I reiterate that there probably just wasn't much to say about Zygarde to begin with. Kalos's Legendary trio members plain and simply aren't where the bulk of Kalos's lore is (rather, that's the ancient war and the ultimate weapon). The internal dynamic between Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde is intuitive enough to where it doesn't really need spelling out - life or death going out of balance would be a bad thing, so Zygarde keeps them in check. Seems as though Zygarde does a decent enough job in its homeland to where it can afford to moonlight in Alola.

Of course there's plenty to say about Zygarde. They can say whatever they want about Zygarde if they're creative enough, and the pieces are definitely there. The core collecting makes for a very different experience from previous legendaries, and that paired with a good storyline would've been interesting enough to justify a Z or XY2.

 

[Silktree]

Core/cell collecting and a good storyline are basically mutually exclusive. Game Freak are not going to make collecting 100 items of any kind a condition to completing the main story.

 

[RileyXY1]

Stop with the Kalos discussion. I can't believe that people are still salty that we didn't get Z.

 

[StandbyForBattle]

Stop with the Kalos discussion. I can't believe that people are still salty that we didn't get Z.

People were discussing kalos, because kalos does felt incomplete, leaving out a couple of things that weren't solve or expanded

 

[Bolt Strike]

Stop with the Kalos discussion. I can't believe that people are still salty that we didn't get Z.

Well yeah, what do you expect when it gets less attention than literally any other region ever and is one of the shallowest regions ever made?

This has kind of gone off topic though. Anyway so yeah, there's a lot more left open in Kalos than Alola, so an expansion isn't necessary whatsoever, especially if Kalos didn't get one. If we can get a game that addresses both, that'd be nice, but the last thing we need is an update to Alola. Literally the last thing we need right now.

 

[Silktree]

Just think of 2017 as a gap year if it bothers you that much.

 

[Esserise]

@Esserise, I don't have to play XY to know it , you do realize, I do have the internet, and I've been on 24 hours a day, and yes I do quote from other, but I still think Kalos and Alola felt incomplete, if XY was complete then why there's no third game or sequel to tie things off. GF would not leave things unfinished without anything to finish it off, 3DS is at there limit, so it make since if they expanded both alola and kalos better on Switch. That just my opinion.

I do realize that you're capable of reading things on the Internet.

That and actually experiencing something are quite different, however.

There's no objective bar for the games to pass in order to "feel" "complete." It's a subjective determination, dependent on one's own experience.

I can read somebody's opinion that skydiving is scary, but without actually going skydiving, I don't know how it would feel to me personally. I might know how I might think it would feel, and from that I can determine my interest in trying it, but without the actual experience, my opinion on it wouldn't quite be fully informed.

Sorry, I know this all probably sounds like me trying to tell you to shut yer' darn mouth, but that's not how I'm meaning for it to come off.

2016 would've been the ideal time for Z, not 2015.

It really, really wouldn't have. It was the 20th anniversary year. That calls for going big, and innovating. Not touching up a three-year-old game that we already bought.

Their value doesn't have to do with being dungeons, as dungeons they'd likely be repetitive. What'd be perfect for them is to contain the means to give Volcanion new forms. But really, anything is better than nothing in this scenario.

So, just four boxes to interact with to change Volcanion's form? Spread out across what is by far the least-convenient area to traverse in the entire game? That's a very contrived way of giving them a "purpose" just for the sake of it. Even if Volcanion were ever meant to have alternative forms, you'd be better off putting the changing device in Sycamore's lab, or somewhere else more accessible.

The problem with that is that it's pure aesthetics. That adds next to nothing in terms of content, it makes it a filler town that exists just to be another area. Having the train station actually function in the game would give the area a gameplay purpose.

Again, this is a case where it's aesthetics and worldbuilding over gameplay.

Yeah and, if it wasn't clear, XY kinda put a TON of emphasis on aesthetics and beauty.

Each region has its own gameplay features to give not only the region itself, but the gameplay a bit of character. Johto has Pokeathlon. Hoenn has Contests and Secret Bases. Sinnoh has Contests and Sinnoh Underground. Unova has Musicals, Join Avenue, and Pokestar Studios. Alola has Festival Plaza and Poke Pelago. What does Kalos have to characterize its gameplay? Minimalist battle facilities that you can find in pretty much any region? An online interface that should really be a series standard? Rhyhorn Racing is perfect for this purpose, it adds gameplay content unique to the region and gives Kalos a unique identity.

This is where I think your view becomes a bit overly-schematic.

Yes, you can chart past games and their side-features into a neat little list, and when you put XY next to that, it's obviously missing something.

But nobody ever said that they have to take the same approach to these things every time. XY were obviously more concerned with the long-term longevity of the series. The transition to 3D - something they definitely had to get right, and hence, the emphasis on aesthetics. Making things like EVs and competitive battling more accessible, and digging in deep to really globalize the games. Introducing actually, genuinely new ideas like Mega Evolution. Did XY have to stab themselves a bit in terms of individual identity in order to do some long-term good? Yeah, but it's long-term good we're always going to have XY to thank for.

As an example, Masuda certainly made it sound as though customization was originally conceived as something specific to Kalos's "regional identity," and you know we all pitched a fit about that, saying it was a terrible excuse to not push the feature forward. So, gun-to-head: Kalos's "regional identity," or long-term good?

Furthermore, Contests and Join Avenue/Festival Plaza have shown us that these things aren't strictly about "regional identity" anyway. They can be absorbed and reskinned by later games. As happened with Amie/Refresh, too.

Would it be nice for Kalos to have its own sort of side-quest? Sure, I can agree to that. But I don't think it's essential, especially not if it comes at the cost of having less long-term benefit. With where they were positioned, XY functioned just fine as self-contained games. You didn't really have an optional timesink, no, but the next two entries in the series did, and had to do less work themselves because XY took the brunt of it.

Of course there's plenty to say about Zygarde. They can say whatever they want about Zygarde if they're creative enough, and the pieces are definitely there. The core collecting makes for a very different experience from previous legendaries, and that paired with a good storyline would've been interesting enough to justify a Z or XY2.

I'd agree, if I thought Zygarde were more than an inconvenient obligation to begin with. As I said, I just don't think they put much thought into the story behind Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde. They're a crutch - they needed Legendary Pokémon to promote stuff. Storywise, there's basically no reason for any of them to exist. Even Xerneas & Yveltal's role as a storehouse of life energy to power the weapon could, in theory, already be said to be filled by the dozens and dozens of Pokémon that Team Flare had already strapped to the menhirs.

Structurally speaking, they probably could have had Zygarde take Nebby's place in the plot of SM - that is, they could have used a Core instead of Cosmog, and could have done what the anime did with Bonnie, but I feel like that'd have felt more forced* since the games were absolutely going to be in a new region.

* I say "forced" here and I know there's a number of people just waiting to shout "Core collection is a gimmick!" and to some extent, I do agree. But really, I think Zygarde should probably take what it can get - I don't think they had to do anything with it if they hadn't felt like it, and its inclusion in SM at least gives it something unique to its name. We've never really had a Build-Your-Own Legendary before, but as Silktree said, it'd have been tricky to integrate that with a mandatory main story role. They could have drastically reduced the number of Cores and Cells to collect, but that kinda defeats the point.

 

[Bolt Strike]

It really, really wouldn't have. It was the 20th anniversary year. That calls for going big, and innovating. Not touching up a three-year-old game that we already bought.

Not really, Game Freak has never really cared about celebrating anniversaries, and even SM doesn't really scream anniversary. They just treat them as business as usual and maybe throw in a few marketing gimmicks.

This is where I think your view becomes a bit overly-schematic.

Yes, you can chart past games and their side-features into a neat little list, and when you put XY next to that, it's obviously missing something.

But nobody ever said that they have to take the same approach to these things every time. XY were obviously more concerned with the long-term longevity of the series. The transition to 3D - something they definitely had to get right, and hence, the emphasis on aesthetics. Making things like EVs and competitive battling more accessible, and digging in deep to really globalize the games. Introducing actually, genuinely new ideas like Mega Evolution. Did XY have to stab themselves a bit in terms of individual identity in order to do some long-term good? Yeah, but it's long-term good we're always going to have XY to thank for.

The problem with that approach is that if the game is lacking in gameplay or graphics or storyline or replay value or what have you, that turns certain people off. A good game really needs to be a well rounded experience that addresses ALL of those aspects to draw in a wide audience. Kalos really wasn't, it heavily favored graphics and let everything else fall to the wayside.

As an example, Masuda certainly made it sound as though customization was originally conceived as something specific to Kalos's "regional identity," and you know we all pitched a fit about that, saying it was a terrible excuse to not push the feature forward. So, gun-to-head: Kalos's "regional identity," or long-term good?

Furthermore, Contests and Join Avenue/Festival Plaza have shown us that these things aren't strictly about "regional identity" anyway. They can be absorbed and reskinned by later games. As happened with Amie/Refresh, too.

This is where Game Freak needs to be smarter about what features to keep and what features to let go. Customization isn't a good feature to make a part of regional identity because it's an enhancement to the core gameplay, it helps the player distinguish themselves in a massive online environment so it's really not the kind of feature you want to throw away the next game. Contests/Join Avenue on the other hand are extras that we can live without, so they're better candidates for features to phase in and out.

Would it be nice for Kalos to have its own sort of side-quest? Sure, I can agree to that. But I don't think it's essential, especially not if it comes at the cost of having less long-term benefit. With where they were positioned, XY functioned just fine as self-contained games. You didn't really have an optional timesink, no, but the next two entries in the series did, and had to do less work themselves because XY took the brunt of it.

There's something very wrong if that's all they can muster out of XY, especially after spending over 3 years on it. No one's expecting Platinum/HGSS/BW2 tier content in a game like this, but to be this barren after spending so much time on it? They shouldn't need to make that choice.

Also, if XY are about "long term benefit", why should they be self-contained in the first place? If you're playing the long game, you need to build on what you did before to keep them engaged, not drop everything and move onto something else. That's the sort of thing that loses them fans, it makes them untrustworthy to deliver a quality experience. At this point, how can we know whether we're getting an XY or a SM? They're so wishy-washy when it comes to their game design that you can't tell whether they're going to include the things you want. Ultimately, Game Freak is going to want to be a LOT more consistent from here on out.

I'd agree, if I thought Zygarde were more than an inconvenient obligation to begin with. As I said, I just don't think they put much thought into the story behind Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde. They're a crutch - they needed Legendary Pokémon to promote stuff. Storywise, there's basically no reason for any of them to exist. Even Xerneas & Yveltal's role as a storehouse of life energy to power the weapon could, in theory, already be said to be filled by the dozens and dozens of Pokémon that Team Flare had already strapped to the menhirs.

Structurally speaking, they probably could have had Zygarde take Nebby's place in the plot of SM - that is, they could have used a Core instead of Cosmog, and could have done what the anime did with Bonnie, but I feel like that'd have felt more forced* since the games were absolutely going to be in a new region.

* I say "forced" here and I know there's a number of people just waiting to shout "Core collection is a gimmick!" and to some extent, I do agree. But really, I think Zygarde should probably take what it can get - I don't think they had to do anything with it if they hadn't felt like it, and its inclusion in SM at least gives it something unique to its name. We've never really had a Build-Your-Own Legendary before, but as Silktree said, it'd have been tricky to integrate that with a mandatory main story role. They could have drastically reduced the number of Cores and Cells to collect, but that kinda defeats the point.

Then why have third legendaries in the first place? If they don't want the burden of creating another game to focus on a third legendary, then don't make a legendary for that role to begin with. No one's forcing them to stick to that tradition. Zygarde's existence in the franchise is near pointless as of now, so why even create Zygarde in the first place?

 

[RileyXY1]

I won't complain if we get Stars or another Kanto game next year.

 

[Ghostsoul]

I won't complain if we get Stars or another Kanto game next year.

I think the 'Kanto nostalgia' call backs are a way of 'bringing back' Kanto without creating another set of remakes for the region. So I'll doubt we'll be getting a FireRed/LeafGreen remake this gen.

 

[Esserise]

Not really, Game Freak has never really cared about celebrating anniversaries, and even SM doesn't really scream anniversary. They just treat them as business as usual and maybe throw in a few marketing gimmicks.

Oh, I don't know about that. It's true that they only went half-in with DP's anniversary spirit. But I think at least part of the reason why we're seeing SM take such strides to depart from the usual mold of the games is because they want to create a very memorable experience for the 20th anniversary.

And even if they personally don't see it as a big deal, the media is still going to treat it as one, so I think it's in their interest to play to that as much as they can. At the very least, they can call a lot of attention to themselves and all of the new ideas they've come up with.

The problem with that approach is that if the game is lacking in gameplay or graphics or storyline or replay value or what have you, that turns certain people off. A good game really needs to be a well rounded experience that addresses ALL of those aspects to draw in a wide audience. Kalos really wasn't, it heavily favored graphics and let everything else fall to the wayside.

In general, I agree with you. If every game were an XY, we'd have a big problem. As a one-off, auteur-ish foundation-layer entry, though, I personally don't think that XY is an issue. It had a particular job that it needed to do, which it accomplished, albeit at the expense of being a totally robust game. I think it can be said that both games to follow it have been distinctly more well-rounded.

This is where Game Freak needs to be smarter about what features to keep and what features to let go. Customization isn't a good feature to make a part of regional identity because it's an enhancement to the core gameplay, it helps the player distinguish themselves in a massive online environment so it's really not the kind of feature you want to throw away the next game. Contests/Join Avenue on the other hand are extras that we can live without, so they're better candidates for features to phase in and out.

Also, if XY are about "long term benefit", why should they be self-contained in the first place? If you're playing the long game, you need to build on what you did before to keep them engaged, not drop everything and move onto something else. That's the sort of thing that loses them fans, it makes them untrustworthy to deliver a quality experience. At this point, how can we know whether we're getting an XY or a SM? They're so wishy-washy when it comes to their game design that you can't tell whether they're going to include the things you want. Ultimately, Game Freak is going to want to be a LOT more consistent from here on out.

I think having XY be self-contained makes sense if the goal is more to establish the core system. At least then they're putting their focus on the engine of the games, which is crucial to later installments, while not being too ambitious about anything that isn't going to leave XY's realm, like the storyline.

But nevertheless, I am again in agreement with you here, but I think this is more of a Game Freak problem than an XY problem - they've kinda always been a bit tone-deaf when it comes to determining which features would be good to keep.

Then why have third legendaries in the first place? If they don't want the burden of creating another game to focus on a third legendary, then don't make a legendary for that role to begin with. No one's forcing them to stick to that tradition. Zygarde's existence in the franchise is near pointless as of now, so why even create Zygarde in the first place?

Beats me. I've said before that at this point, I'd really rather they just avoid "third version" Legendary Pokémon unless they have a really good idea in mind for them. I have to assume that Zygarde, like its trio-mates, exists almost entirely for its marketing value, since it contributes nothing to the story.

 

[Silktree]

Zygarde gave the anime a storyline that resulted in sales of Zygarde Core plushies. That is not pointless, even if it wasn't the original purpose. That said, its vague ties to Xerneas and Yveltal were a mistake.

And for heaven's sake, Sun and Moon were not released prematurely. They were released at exactly the right time to capitalize on Go's success. How many returning fans from the 90s would have bought Z? Very few.

 

[JFrombaugh]

It seems to be a toss up as to whether we'll get DP Remakes, or a third version sequel. I've heard the report about Pokemon Stars being in development for quite some time now for the new Nintendo Switch, and personally I say...

Not quite so fast!

Not only is it too early to jump the gun on that kind of assumption, but the blatant labeling of "Pokemon Stars" is a bit too obvious in my opinion. Why? Because Game freak knows their hardcore Pokemon fans all too well... and they've been known to play a prank or two, especially when they know a large number of them may be monitoring every possible website for any leaks.

In fact, they are even going out of their way to drop hints that the next entries in Gen VII will in fact be remakes of Diamond/Pearl, not a Sun & Moon sequel. Countless others before me have already pointed out things like the mysterious video on the Japanese Pokemon YouTube channel, the mention of the Sinnoh legend trio in the Aether Foundation book, and more.

But back to that report from Eurogamer that claims a "Pokemon Stars" is in development for the Switch, I believe that may either be a huge red herring to throw everyone off track, or just a code name for a port of Sun & Moon to the Switch. Nintendo has done this before, as just such a tactic used with the first Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games back in November of 2005, where Red version was released on the GBA and Blue on the DS. Also we've seen it done with the Mario and Sonic at the Olympics Games, as well as Smash Bros for Wii U and 3DS.

Such a port would explain why this Pokemon Stars game was reportedly developed directly alongside Sun & Moon, unlike past sequels to main series games. If Nintendo wants to bridge the gap between handheld and home consoles, then it may be that the next Gen VII entries are mostly planned for the Switch instead of the 3DS, and if so, then GameFreak would likely want to develop a baseline battle engine and graphics to expand upon.

Not that seeing a third version sequel of Sun & Moon or a Sun 2 & Moon 2 isn't a possibility... I just don't think it will be Pokemon Stars.

 

[Ghostsoul]

As a general comment, the next Gen to skip a remake, should be Gen 9.
Based off the differences between the graphics. Gen 3 and Gen 5 had rather similar graphics, so there was no need to make a Gen 3 game with Gen 5 graphics.
Gen 3 and Gen 6 were drastically different, to the point where the creators decided to set it in a new universe.
So...
Gen 3 - Gen 6
Gen 4 - Gen 7
Gen 5 - Gen 8 (Possibly fully on the Switch)
(No remake) - Gen 9
Gen 6 - Gen 10