Mafia Pokemon Generation Two Mafia! [Night Eight]

[Zexy]

The seed has finally grown in the battlefield of life!
The sunlight's enough, this made my day!
But I still received a lot of damage the previous night
Who should we attack today?

 

[Zexy]

I really think we should start attacking now else we'll fall heavily behind.

My biggest and maybe only FoS so far is @Elementar . He's picked fights with both Midorikawa and Rainsquid who are now checked town.

 

[DarthWolf]

@Zexy did you suddenly evolve? In the middle of the day?

I agree that we should attack, but besides the early happening with Elementar I don't see anything standing out. Last 2 phases were mostly things like:
I took X damage
I did this

There hasn't really been a lot of reads from people. There are also some inactive/not as active players, please be more active.
I know lynching is slowed down this way, that already gives an advantage to the mafia with their NK. Don't make it worse by doing nothing. I have to admit, I also haven't voted yet so I'm as much as the problem as most people. Working together is our best option.

Since there was no NK there is a high chance of a protective role. Please contact me.

 

[swarla]

I really think we should start attacking now else we'll fall heavily behind.

My biggest and maybe only FoS so far is @Elementar . He's picked fights with both Midorikawa and Rainsquid who are now checked town.

I agree that we all need to start doing something since a lot of us are inactive (I'm guilty for that, sorry).
What I don't understand is why people are so suspicious of Elementar. All he did was point out people that he found suspicious (and a lot of you agreed with him at the time) before everyone twisted his words causing him to have to defend himself. 'Picked fights' is not the right phrase, more like trying to contribute to the game.

 

[Elementar]

I really think we should start attacking now else we'll fall heavily behind.

My biggest and maybe only FoS so far is @Elementar . He's picked fights with both Midorikawa and Rainsquid who are now checked town.

Picking fights... Well, I doubt Darth would've decided to check both of them unless they were scummy... Usually you don't try and check people if you think they're town. And does picking fights = asking Mido questions about their suspicions and discussing some early behaviour on Rain (neither of whom I've actually voted for)? And I only asked Mido questions after they were town checked. So, I asked them questions to see where they're at in order to get info, which is more than a lot of you. I'm saying go for inactives, but if this was a game with more info, would your suspicions on me be warranted? Some may call your FoS sheeping, but you haven't voted for me and I don't think you are. I'd also like to hear if you have any more reasoning behind your FoS?

 

[DarthWolf]

My reasoning for checking them was as follows.
I started with a "power player", they seem like a bigger thread in general if thet are scum and killing them could cripple the team. Zexy kept softclaiming with his little rhymes so he seemed Towny to me. Mido was the other good option.
Rainsquid was one of the more active players without a softclaim so I went for them.
I think that I know my next target already.

 

[Midorikawa]

With the little information we have, I could see a scum team between Zexy and Rain... That's just the tone I get currently, as they could be bussing weakly early without voting. Rain's contradicting themself by asking for soft claims but saying it's a bad idea. Looks like they may want to backtrack later if someone uses this against them. And they seem fairly certain about what's in the mafia team. This may be an attempt to get a misunderstanding about what is actually in the mafia, and cover up the real Pokemon in the team.

Zexy seems to be going slightly off general town meta from what I remember. I'm usually playing one of his games, or his playing mine, so I haven't taken too much notice. But I find that they play safer as town. That's all I can really suck out of the straws I'm grasping at for now. I like swarla's stuff above though. And Darth seems helpful.

This is just making stuff out more than it is in a very bad way. It pushes thoughts into players minds, and thus misleads. The Zexy part is especially strange.

They suggested an idea and asked for the soft claims. They then said everything that was wrong with it, so if someone did softclaim and feel the consequences, they can blame on that person rather than themself. It's a way to get softclaims without receiving the suspicion.

This is after I explained how Rain's post wasn't strange and he completely ignored what I said and just tried to make it look worse again.

I just have a feeling about you that makes you seem as though you're trying to mislead us.

And suddenly his reasoning is feelings.

Here. They ask for softclaims, then say it's dangerous. It gives the impression that they are sitting on the fence.



Let's look at Rain's post, where they voted for me...



The first bolded and underlined phrase shows that even the person voting for me sees logic. And it looks like others liked my logic before where they followed up by asking Rain to elaborate.

And the second bolded and underlined shows that they don't like something, which is based off feelings. You are pointing out that I have no logic to defend Rain, yet they've said I have logic, and they've used the same feelings. And if you don't like my case, may you please create a suitable alternative?

Again ignored my defense of Rain. I also don't like the interpretation of other player's posts. And the fact that he ignored using feelings as a defense. Rain seeing his logic is not an excuse for him being suspicious off of feelings.

@Rainsquid do you have full confidence that I am mafia? If you do, by all means leave it on. If not, may you please remove it? Voting is more dangerous in this game, and should only occur if someone is certain. I suggest the same to everyone else who's voted.

At first I didn't think this strange because I didn't see the amount of HP lost per vote, wherever it is. However the fact that he doesn't deny knowing we lose only 1HP at all makes this an overreaction. It's no different than overreacting to one vote on a normal D1.

@Rainsquid, do you think your vote could be seen as OMGUS?

This is random and just makes Rain look worse for actual reasoning. It's again planting. And he still failed to truly defend himself.

So because I said that you may be misleading players into Pokemon that may not be mafia (which is quite a small reason), you're voting me and think I'm likely mafia? That reasoning is far more weak than mine, and I'm not even voting you... And it is OMGUS if you vote for someone because they accuse you, which is what this looks like.

The fact that he thinks not voting makes him townier is way to strange. This makes it seem like anyone who votes is scum, when in reality with only 1HP being lost it's not strange, and it's not scummy. And he's also making out any counter cases to be OMGUS. OMGUS is only when someone votes just for being called scum. However when there is a real case it's not OMGUS.

What about me yesterday? I didn't vote for anyone because I wasn't certain. Voting doesn't hurt too much if it's one person. Just because it's small damage doesn't mean it doesn't add up over time. It doesn't make it good either. So really, you're voting me because you weren't satisfied with my reasoning. It seems you aren't satisfied because of a feeling. You called me out yesterday for using feelings, despite it being my minor argument...

Again evidence he ignored what was being said. He never actually defended truly, and never mentioned my points. And he's brushing off his feeling which his post shows as more than minor. And it also shows how he doesn't deny knowing about 1HP. And damage over time is not enough reason to be worried about it.

So you ignored my other questions and just grasp at straws to make me look more scummy... I wasn't being overly defensive. I was politely asking that if they didn't have most of their confidence in my position as scum, then 'may they please' take it off. May you please answer my other questions, because your reasoning seems very weak and just contradicts what you called me out for yesterday (and I didn't even vote...)

He talks about questions. Yet he never asked me any. And again his whole I didn't vote defense. There is no reason because voting is not always alignment indicative. Especially early game. Also saying I contradicted myself when I never did. I haven't posted much in the past few days due to work and exhaustion but thats it.

@Midorikawa, I know you're confirmed town, but may you please still answer my questions?

Again pushing for the missing questions.

I hear that it helps to repeat your question... or at least quote your question.

It says something if Eevee is saying this. I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one confused by what he was asking.

Many others agreed with my suspicions, and even questioned more into it. Why do you point out me in particular?

You started it. And I don't remember anyone pushing it truly. There is also your lack of actual defense or proper response. And your actions after have been constantly scummy.

I'm waiting for Mido's answer. Then I'll post more.

Lol what? Waiting for me is just avoiding speaking. This is completely unnecessary.

Picking fights... Well, I doubt Darth would've decided to check both of them unless they were scummy... Usually you don't try and check people if you think they're town. And does picking fights = asking Mido questions about their suspicions and discussing some early behaviour on Rain (neither of whom I've actually voted for)? And I only asked Mido questions after they were town checked. So, I asked them questions to see where they're at in order to get info, which is more than a lot of you. I'm saying go for inactives, but if this was a game with more info, would your suspicions on me be warranted? Some may call your FoS sheeping, but you haven't voted for me and I don't think you are. I'd also like to hear if you have any more reasoning behind your FoS?

Again interpreting another, and now he's making it seem like I was super obvious scum. Since when do people not mention checking me for fear of me being mafia? Most of all the "I didn't vote" thing. There is no defense or proper response addressing what others said to him.

VOTE: Elementar

Now I'm going to be late for work.

 

[DarthWolf]

At first I didn't think this strange because I didn't see the amount of HP lost per vote, wherever it is. However the fact that he doesn't deny knowing we lose only 1HP at all makes this an overreaction. It's no different than overreacting to one vote on a normal D1.

I read it as: "Unlike normal games, voting for someone that does not have the highest voting count can still be damaged. You should be more careful with your votes"
I get that is is trying to warn other, but if it's only 1 person that we are talking about it doesn't change that much.

 

[Midorikawa]

I read it as: "Unlike normal games, voting for someone that does not have the highest voting count can still be damaged. You should be more careful with your votes"
I get that is is trying to warn other, but if it's only 1 person that we are talking about it doesn't change that much.

Exactly. 1HP is an overreaction. you get recoil and yet you fearlessly use your ability and that's more than 1HP lost. If I had an ability like that I wouldn't resist using it either. And if someone wants to vote me, 1HP doesn't scare me. It takes a lot of phases for 1HP to matter much. Mafia isn't going to bother attacking someone being scumread at night so he's not ind danger so easily and town will naturally be much more cautious with their roles.

 

[Zexy]

@Zexy did you suddenly evolve? In the middle of the day?

Yes but there is a reason it can happen in the middle of the day. I'll PM you, Mido and Rainsquid soon for the full details.

Picking fights... Well, I doubt Darth would've decided to check both of them unless they were scummy... Usually you don't try and check people if you think they're town. And does picking fights = asking Mido questions about their suspicions and discussing some early behaviour on Rain (neither of whom I've actually voted for)? And I only asked Mido questions after they were town checked. So, I asked them questions to see where they're at in order to get info, which is more than a lot of you. I'm saying go for inactives, but if this was a game with more info, would your suspicions on me be warranted? Some may call your FoS sheeping, but you haven't voted for me and I don't think you are. I'd also like to hear if you have any more reasoning behind your FoS?

But no one is particularly scummy, we can't be sure that scumminess is the reason Darth picked those two. Picking fights = you are the only person who's been actively pushing people for reasons that aren't that good (to be fair there's not much reasoning to use this game though). "if this was a game with more info, would your suspicions on me be warranted?" is a null argument, we're playing this game, not some other game. I don't like the "Some may call your FoS sheeping" part either; no one else really presented a case this phase so I'm not sheeping, I'm actually taking initiative here. Besides I feel like that's a passive-aggressive way for you to say you suspect me. As in "some may think you're sheeping, and I'm shading you for this, but I don't want to outright say I think you're sheeping" And no, I don't have more reasoning behind my FoS, why would you even ask me that? You're supposed to defend to my case, not ask me if I have more reasons for suspecting you.

 

[Zexy]

VOTE: Elementar

Midorikawa who is checked liked the post so I guess she doesn't have some info that makes Elementar look town.

 

[swarla]

And suddenly his reasoning is feelings.

Yes some of his reasoning is feelings. But wasn't your original reason for voting for him a feeling?

I wasn't actually satisfied with him yesterday

You gave no other explanation for why you were voting for him other than this. So isn't being suspicious for him for basing things off feelings a bit contradictory? And also, when has basing reasonings off of feelings been a bad thing? Going off your gut instinct can be good in this game.

It's no different than overreacting to one vote on a normal D1.

But it is different. 1HP loss actually affects you outside the voting phase. In a normal game a single vote doesn't damage you at all, but here it does, so every vote matters. That's what Elementar was trying to get at, he is not exaggerating, because all that only 1HP loss accumulates.

You started it

And how is that a proper answer?

There is also your lack of actual defense or proper response.

I don't know if I'm the only one that sees this, but Elementar has been properly defending himself. You've been picking at his words constantly and for each accusation he has been defending himself.

Lol what? Waiting for me is just avoiding speaking. This is completely unnecessary.

Well at that point in the game there wasn't much more to say other than wait for your response. And if you gave him more than one word answers for some of his questions he might've been able to say more.

2) I haven't contradicted myself at all.
3)yes.
4)No. and you remain as my top scimread anyways.
5)yes.
6)no.

And as I pointed out before, you have contradicted yourself with your argument about feelings as you've done the exact same thing.

Again interpreting another, and now he's making it seem like I was super obvious scum.

So you say this ^

Since when do people not mention checking me for fear of me being mafia?

But here you're basically admitting that you were suspicious enough to be percieved as mafia. ?

 

[Elementar]

This is just making stuff out more than it is in a very bad way. It pushes thoughts into players minds, and thus misleads. The Zexy part is especially strange.

I was trying to get info in a game where it hardly exists. There were no cases at the time, and I even mentioned to be grasping at straws all to try and get discussion going. Obviously 'pushing thoughts' into players minds didn't work too well.

This is after I explained how Rain's post wasn't strange and he completely ignored what I said and just tried to make it look worse again.

And suddenly his reasoning is feelings.

The post wasn't strange to you, but it was strange to others. Just because we think something different about a post doesn't mean you're town and I'm scum.

Again ignored my defense of Rain. I also don't like the interpretation of other player's posts. And the fact that he ignored using feelings as a defense. Rain seeing his logic is not an excuse for him being suspicious off of feelings.

Rain seeing my logic contradicts your reasoning for voting me. You're saying I didn't have logic, but even Rain saw that I did.

At first I didn't think this strange because I didn't see the amount of HP lost per vote, wherever it is. However the fact that he doesn't deny knowing we lose only 1HP at all makes this an overreaction. It's no different than overreacting to one vote on a normal D1.

So you don't want town members to damage others at night (saying that only mafia should do that), but you're willing to damage people during the day? And it is different to normal votes, because if your two votes stay on now, that's 4 less HP the mafia need to take away.

This is random and just makes Rain look worse for actual reasoning. It's again planting. And he still failed to truly defend himself.

The fact that he thinks not voting makes him townier is way to strange. This makes it seem like anyone who votes is scum, when in reality with only 1HP being lost it's not strange, and it's not scummy. And he's also making out any counter cases to be OMGUS. OMGUS is only when someone votes just for being called scum. However when there is a real case it's not OMGUS.

Again evidence he ignored what was being said. He never actually defended truly, and never mentioned my points. And he's brushing off his feeling which his post shows as more than minor. And it also shows how he doesn't deny knowing about 1HP. And damage over time is not enough reason to be worried about it.

He talks about questions. Yet he never asked me any. And again his whole I didn't vote defense. There is no reason because voting is not always alignment indicative. Especially early game. Also saying I contradicted myself when I never did. I haven't posted much in the past few days due to work and exhaustion but thats it.

Again pushing for the missing questions.

It says something if Eevee is saying this. I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one confused by what he was asking.

You started it. And I don't remember anyone pushing it truly. There is also your lack of actual defense or proper response. And your actions after have been constantly scummy.

Lol what? Waiting for me is just avoiding speaking. This is completely unnecessary.

Again interpreting another, and now he's making it seem like I was super obvious scum. Since when do people not mention checking me for fear of me being mafia? Most of all the "I didn't vote" thing. There is no defense or proper response addressing what others said to him.

VOTE: Elementar

Now I'm going to be late for work.

Well, I eventually did ask you questions, and you answered with one word answers that provided no new information. If a new player did that, they'd be called out for CWAC. And I 'started it.' I started asking questions and doing work, yeah. If I had real suspicions, I would have voted. If I felt that my reasoning was strong enough, I would've voted. But the fact that I haven't voted because I admit that the game is relatively empty makes me towny because I don't want to damage town (which you both turned out to be). So, it's actually god judgement on my part, whilst you are constantly damaging a town.

Yes but there is a reason it can happen in the middle of the day. I'll PM you, Mido and Rainsquid soon for the full details.

But no one is particularly scummy, we can't be sure that scumminess is the reason Darth picked those two. Picking fights = you are the only person who's been actively pushing people for reasons that aren't that good (to be fair there's not much reasoning to use this game though). "if this was a game with more info, would your suspicions on me be warranted?" is a null argument, we're playing this game, not some other game. I don't like the "Some may call your FoS sheeping" part either; no one else really presented a case this phase so I'm not sheeping, I'm actually taking initiative here. Besides I feel like that's a passive-aggressive way for you to say you suspect me. As in "some may think you're sheeping, and I'm shading you for this, but I don't want to outright say I think you're sheeping" And no, I don't have more reasoning behind my FoS, why would you even ask me that? You're supposed to defend to my case, not ask me if I have more reasons for suspecting you.

I'm the only one who's been pushing people at all, with the exception of those who are pushing me for even worse reasons. I'm getting more information than most, and it's better to get info in a dry game than being townread.

Anyway, this is a case of town arguing with town, so it's not beneficial to anyone...

 

[Midorikawa]

Yes some of his reasoning is feelings. But wasn't your original reason for voting for him a feeling?

No, I voted him based off of scummy actions. I never said I have a feeling. I've been completely against his actions.

You gave no other explanation for why you were voting for him other than this. So isn't being suspicious for him for basing things off feelings a bit contradictory? And also, when has basing reasonings off of feelings been a bad thing? Going off your gut instinct can be good in this game.

Gut instinct isn't a good enough reason. And I sat there against him the previous day, so there was more reasoning. People can go back and read.

But it is different. 1HP loss actually affects you outside the voting phase. In a normal game a single vote doesn't damage you at all, but here it does, so every vote matters. That's what Elementar was trying to get at, he is not exaggerating, because all that only 1HP loss accumulates.

1HP is still small, and if he's town then he shouldn't worry because mafia prefer to leave possible mislynches alone. Thus it is an overreaction especially when plenty others are using moves that do recoil.

And how is that a proper answer?

It is because he started the thing in Rain.

I don't know if I'm the only one that sees this, but Elementar has been properly defending himself. You've been picking at his words constantly and for each accusation he has been defending himself.

No he hasn't. He's been ignoring responses and not addressing them, and half his defense is "I didn't vote".

Well at that point in the game there wasn't much more to say other than wait for your response. And if you gave him more than one word answers for some of his questions he might've been able to say more.

The post was completely pointless and had no reason for being made. IT was CWAC and it implies he had something to say, when clearly he didn't.

And as I pointed out before, you have contradicted yourself with your argument about feelings as you've done the exact same thing.

AGAIN-I never voted off of feelings. What are you reading? Part of my case on him is that he tried to use feelings. Make sure you're not confusing the two of us.

So you say this ^

But here you're basically admitting that you were suspicious enough to be percieved as mafia. ?

..............Wow you must really really be misreading. I have won best single mafia performance award twice. I have been fearlynched by Zexy. A lot of players know me as having good scumplay, and the stories get passed down, thus it is not strange for me to be checked out of fear that I could be mafia. I'm good at being scum. Not that I was acting scummy.

If you aren't misreading everything then I can only assume you and Elementar are scumbuddies.

 

[Elementar]

Again ignored my defense of Rain.

And if I've been ignoring your defense on Rain, you've been ignoring swarla's defense of me...

1HP is still small, and if he's town then he shouldn't worry because mafia prefer to leave possible mislynches alone. Thus it is an overreaction especially when plenty others are using moves that do recoil.

So because it's small, it's fine?

No he hasn't. He's been ignoring responses and not addressing them, and half his defense is "I didn't vote".

What have I been ignoring? I could say you were ignoring my responses earlier too. I don't see what I'm ignoring.

AGAIN-I never voted off of feelings. What are you reading? Part of my case on him is that he tried to use feelings. Make sure you're not confusing the two of us.

You voted without reasoning, and until I asked you, there was little-to-nothing that actually made me a worthwhile vote. At least now I know where you're coming from, which is better than what appeared to be feelings before.

..............Wow you must really really be misreading. I have won best single mafia performance award twice. I have been fearlynched by Zexy. A lot of players know me as having good scumplay, and the stories get passed down, thus it is not strange for me to be checked out of fear that I could be mafia. I'm good at being scum. Not that I was acting scummy.

If you aren't misreading everything then I can only assume you and Elementar are scumbuddies.

If we were scum buddies, I would've told her not to defend me so blatantly. I actually wouldn't mind dying if it proved I was town and got some real discussion going on players who might actually be mafia. swarla's defending me because we basically know each other's Pokemon and we trust each other.

All I'm getting from you know is that my reasoning is weak and I've been shading players to try and get damage on innocents through votes. That's pretty weak from my standpoint.

 

[Midorikawa]

I was trying to get info in a game where it hardly exists. There were no cases at the time, and I even mentioned to be grasping at straws all to try and get discussion going. Obviously 'pushing thoughts' into players minds didn't work too well.

There is getting started and then there is just straight up pushing possible mislynch. The whole Zexy part remains way out there, and as I'm going to say multiple times now-there was nothing wrong with what Rainsquid did, and you continue to ignore what others say.

The post wasn't strange to you, but it was strange to others. Just because we think something different about a post doesn't mean you're town and I'm scum.

Look ignoring again. The point is you didn't address what we we're saying, and continued not to, and changed your case to feelings.

Rain seeing my logic contradicts your reasoning for voting me. You're saying I didn't have logic, but even Rain saw that I did.

Rain's logic ain't my logic, and you are again ignoring the point that you said you have a feeling. Stop ignoring, read properly and then respond and maybe we'll see you as possible town.

So you don't want town members to damage others at night (saying that only mafia should do that), but you're willing to damage people during the day? And it is different to normal votes, because if your two votes stay on now, that's 4 less HP the mafia need to take away.

I said the first night. I never said every night. Because I wanted to get an idea of the amount of mafia. Reading is helpful.

Well, I eventually did ask you questions, and you answered with one word answers that provided no new information. If a new player did that, they'd be called out for CWAC. And I 'started it.' I started asking questions and doing work, yeah. If I had real suspicions, I would have voted. If I felt that my reasoning was strong enough, I would've voted. But the fact that I haven't voted because I admit that the game is relatively empty makes me towny because I don't want to damage town (which you both turned out to be). So, it's actually god judgement on my part, whilst you are constantly damaging a town.

The questions were mostly rhetorical and didn't need large answers. And omg you sound worse than Zexy using meta right now.

I'm the only one who's been pushing people at all, with the exception of those who are pushing me for even worse reasons. I'm getting more information than most, and it's better to get info in a dry game than being townread.

Pushing who? I haven't seen much of anyone doing anything in thread. Has it been in private?

Anyway, this is a case of town arguing with town, so it's not beneficial to anyone.

No. Townies usually don't ignore everything.

 

[Zexy]

Mido is tunneling hard... and it's not on me! Rare sight

honestly Elementar I think you should claim, in OC or publicly, if you want us convinced

 

[Zexy]

1. @AussieEevee
2. @Feenie
3. @CheffOfGames
6. @SoaringLooker
8. @Elementar
9. @swarla
10. @TheCapsFan
11. @Iteru
12. @Skullcrow
15. @Rainbow Cloud

Actually I think a massclaim may need to happen at this point. Please consider it, we really don't have any good leads.

 

[Elementar]

There is getting started and then there is just straight up pushing possible mislynch. The whole Zexy part remains way out there, and as I'm going to say multiple times now-there was nothing wrong with what Rainsquid did, and you continue to ignore what others say.

Well, your logic isn't my logic . In my logic, they did some suspicious things. But yet again, I didn't think they were scum. You're calling me out for saying Rain did stuff wrong, but if I really believed that, wouldn't I have voted for them?

Look ignoring again. The point is you didn't address what we we're saying, and continued not to, and changed your case to feelings.

I added to the case with feelings. What do you want me to say about this? You're saying I'm ignoring 'yet again.' I hear it helps to quote what you actually want me to reference, because right now, I still don't know what on earth I'm ignoring.

Rain's logic ain't my logic, and you are again ignoring the point that you said you have a feeling. Stop ignoring, read properly and then respond and maybe we'll see you as possible town.

On top of my original suspicions, I had a feeling. What else do you want to know?

I said the first night. I never said every night. Because I wanted to get an idea of the amount of mafia. Reading is helpful.

The questions were mostly rhetorical and didn't need large answers. And omg you sound worse than Zexy using meta right now.

Pushing who? I haven't seen much of anyone doing anything in thread. Has it been in private?

No. Townies usually don't ignore everything.

Say other people (other than yourself pushing me) that have actually done some stuff so far. I've been pushing you and Rain to get answers.

Mido is tunneling hard... and it's not on me! Rare sight

honestly Elementar I think you should claim, in OC or publicly, if you want us convinced

Lol xD

I claimed to swarla in private ages ago. Who do you think I should claim to?

 

[Zexy]

I claimed to swarla in private ages ago. Who do you think I should claim to?

Darth/Mido/Rainsquid? As you can see, Mido liked my above post, so the cop's alliance is backing up my statement.