Preview SM021: Nyabby, Time to Begin the Journey!

[ii kanji]

I don't care if Mooland dies personally.

Mate, you're taking being a cat-person to an extreme.

 

[Iteru]

Mate, you're taking being a cat-person to an extreme.

Maybe Joy will put it down...

 

[Nala]

I want Stoutland to live, but the Litten blaming Ash scenario kinda sounds like an interesting direction.

 

[dman_dustin]

But I'm enjoying the storyline so far and don't want it to end yet.

I'm not, because the longer it takes Litten to be caught the longer it will take for Litten to develop under Ash.

What's the point of basically developing the backstory of a character, like a Pokemon when it will be far more important to develop under its trainer, sure, the backstory will affect the relationship between trainer and Pokemon, but right now there's a severe imbalance that will take an incredibly long time to balance out, especially with the speculation Ash wouldn't catch Litten until a Torracat....as in completely screwing over Litten as a starter and as a Pokemon, by treating it as just another random Pokemon, and NOT as a starter Pokemon, though I guess to be fair Rowlet nor Popplio really have been treated as a starter Pokemon really, but Ash did catch Rowlet first, and Popplio is currently Lana's only Pokemon. I definitely do not want a Chimchar situation or a Krokorok situation for Litten, taking a year or more to capture.

If Litten is not caught, especially as a result of this one hour special, it'll be an utter waste of time, I'd much rather a fun episode involving ALL the characters just having fun, and maybe a nice battle between Ash and Character B, over a non important episode (in regards to the one hour special) involving a potential Pokemon dying, when it would've made FAR more sense to wait until the 22nd episode for an episode like this if it was simply just development yet not technically important at least not until Litten would BE caught.

Hell the Tapu Koko episode would've made more sense as the 21st episode rather 19th, while this episode could've been 19th if there wasn't going to be a capture. Would MUCH rather look forward to the Tapu Koko episode than an episode involving a Pokemon dying, and only serving as "wasted" development for a one hour special especially if there will be a pretty major disconnect between episode 20 and the rest of the episodes (AKA relevant only because it serves as 20th anniversary of the anime rather than relevant to the sun and moon series).

 

[SamurottMan]

I'm not, because the longer it takes Litten to be caught the longer it will take for Litten to develop under Ash.

What's the point of basically developing the backstory of a character, like a Pokemon when it will be far more important to develop under its trainer, sure, the backstory will affect the relationship between trainer and Pokemon, but right now there's a severe imbalance that will take an incredibly long time to balance out, especially with the speculation Ash wouldn't catch Litten until a Torracat....as in completely screwing over Litten as a starter and as a Pokemon, by treating it as just another random Pokemon, and NOT as a starter Pokemon, though I guess to be fair Rowlet nor Popplio really have been treated as a starter Pokemon really, but Ash did catch Rowlet first, and Popplio is currently Lana's only Pokemon. I definitely do not want a Chimchar situation or a Krokorok situation for Litten, taking a year or more to capture.

If Litten is not caught, especially as a result of this one hour special, it'll be an utter waste of time, I'd much rather a fun episode involving ALL the characters just having fun, and maybe a nice battle between Ash and Character B, over a non important episode (in regards to the one hour special) involving a potential Pokemon dying, when it would've made FAR more sense to wait until the 22nd episode for an episode like this if it was simply just development yet not technically important at least not until Litten would BE caught.

Hell the Tapu Koko episode would've made more sense as the 21st episode rather 19th, while this episode could've been 19th if there wasn't going to be a capture. Would MUCH rather look forward to the Tapu Koko episode than an episode involving a Pokemon dying, and only serving as "wasted" development for a one hour special especially if there will be a pretty major disconnect between episode 20 and the rest of the episodes (AKA relevant only because it serves as 20th anniversary of the anime rather than relevant to the sun and moon series).

Okay, what!?

The one thing that makes a show, any show, good is the character development. You can't have an interesting episode and make a character do something if they don't have any personality traits.

Litten will do just fine if the capture is delayed. It's already a capable Pokemon and its story arc gives A LOT to this show. It's one of my personal Top 3 reasons to follow the show right now. And I rather they make this arc as long as possible without stretching it to the extremes, because it is good for both Litten's growth and Ash's.

What you call 'waste of episode' is actually what makes the whole series when you look back. And I rather watch Pokemon that have been fleshed out throughout the show instead of having developed a personality overnight.

 

[Playerking]

Okay, what!?

The one thing that makes a show, any show, good is the character development. You can't have an interesting episode and make a character do something if they don't have any personality traits.

Litten will do just fine if the capture is delayed. It's already a capable Pokemon and its story arc gives A LOT to this show. It's one of my personal Top 3 reasons to follow the show right now. And I rather they make this arc as long as possible without stretching it to the extremes, because it is good for both Litten's growth and Ash's.

What you call 'waste of episode' is actually what makes the whole series when you look back. And I rather watch Pokemon that have been fleshed out throughout the show instead of having developed a personality overnight.

I see where you're coming from, but I'm leaning a bit more towards to what Dman Dustin said, because while development is always good, I'd much rather have the development under Ash then by itself. We will now have three episodes focusing on Litten, so if Ash catches it here, then I think it developing Ash would be nice to see, because being with a Trainer and getting to know and really care for a Trainer is a good way for development. Because their personalities can bounce of eachother and it's pretty clear that Ash and Litten pretty different. But if we can get the same amount of character development with it being by itself for a while, then I guess that will be okay, but until then, I believe a Pokemon needs a Trainer to truly develop. Although, despite all this, this episode is probably about Ash and Litten helping Stoutland and if Stoutland dies, then what will Litten do? Be by itself from now on, if it does, I couldn't see that being a plot point for long, so if it is by itself, then I think it will be caught in the episode it's by itself, or in the next episode it's featured in. Either that, or it becomes a lone stray for the rest of the series, but I think it will eventually be caught by somone.

 

[Iteru]

What's the point of basically developing the backstory of a character, like a Pokemon when it will be far more important to develop under its trainer, sure, the backstory will affect the relationship between trainer and Pokemon, but right now there's a severe imbalance that will take an incredibly long time to balance out, especially with the speculation Ash wouldn't catch Litten until a Torracat....as in completely screwing over Litten as a starter and as a Pokemon, by treating it as just another random Pokemon, and NOT as a starter Pokemon, though I guess to be fair Rowlet nor Popplio really have been treated as a starter Pokemon really, but Ash did catch Rowlet first, and Popplio is currently Lana's only Pokemon. I definitely do not want a Chimchar situation or a Krokorok situation for Litten, taking a year or more to capture.

Different strokes for different blokes I guess. Nyabby so far has had good screentime, the best story outside of any other Pokémon so far (save maybe Koko), is in the opening, etc. I don't personally see how giving a starter a meaningful, somewhat-unique plot is screwing it but that's just my opinion.

I don't personally subscribe to the Nyaheat theory but it would be different for it to evolve to survive if Mooland does kick the bucket. Nyabby itself seems like a reasonably competent battler already unlike Mokuroh, so I think Mokuroh will get the battling development leaving Nyabby for the trust one. Ultimately with Satoshi at this stage or later down the line will all hopefully be one big storyline.

 

[dman_dustin]

The one thing that makes a show, any show, good is the character development. You can't have an interesting episode and make a character do something if they don't have any personality traits.

That's not my point, a Pokemon should not be defined by its past, the importance of a Pokemon is the relationship it has with its trainer, which mostly (read again mostly not completely) is related to it being caught. Chimchar had an interesting backstory, but it didn't go anywhere UNTIL Ash caught it. Chimchar/Monferno/Infernape were not defined by their past with Paul but its relationship with Ash starting when Ash caught it. The problem however is how long it took, which I definitely don't want for Litten as it has no reason to take AS long as Chimchar

What I'm saying is I don't want Litten to solely be defined by Stoutland, but by its relationship with Ash.

What you call 'waste of episode' is actually what makes the whole series when you look back. And I rather watch Pokemon that have been fleshed out throughout the show instead of having developed a personality overnight.

You're missing my point. This is a waste as it pertains to the one hour 20th anniversary special. Like I said, I'd rather look forward to Tapu Koko than a Pokemon dying and NOTHING happens as a result except more waiting..

I don't know why people are so desperately wanting a completely tearjerker episode to follow the Ash and Pikachu episode, as of the one hour special. Why would you want an episode where a Pokemon will likely die, and nothing will come out of it outside of creating unnecessary drama between Litten and Ash (the speculation Litten will blame Ash or wants nothing to do with Ash), or just simply running away until the next episode.

So what we're left with is a dead Pokemon, a broken Litten, a confused Ash and that's how all of you want the 20th anniversary of the anime to be celebrate?

AGAIN, re read what I said, if that was going to be the case, Litten NOT being caught then Stoutland should've died (if it does) on the 19th episode while Tapu Koko could've been the 21st episode and paired up with the Ash and Pikachu episode, which would've been better then leaving everyone with a dead Pokemon, and nothing but PURE development which I'm not sure how much children are going to care about as much as they watch or implied to know Stoutland died and having maybe to wait a week for a more uplifting episode, but delaying the capture would likely be a "screw you" to the audience at least. .

At least a capture would at least be worth it to having seen an episode about a Pokemon dying and the consequences that follow. At least something "beneficial" would come from a completely morbid sad story.

Different strokes for different blokes I guess. Nyabby so far has had good screentime, the best story outside of any other Pokémon so far (save maybe Koko), is in the opening, etc. I don't personally see how giving a starter a meaningful, somewhat-unique plot is screwing it but that's just my opinion.

It's not developing under Ash which will ultimately be better. Right now Litten is only being defined by its likely failing relationship (continuing) with Stoutland (AKA likely dead), which really does nothing for Litten and Ash outside of ultimately how Ash ends up with Litten but it does nothing to define their future bond it'll only guide it.

Just like Ash and Infernape, Paul didn't define Infernape, but it was how Ash and Infernape came together, but everything that Ash and Infernape did together as an accomplishment was because of their trainer and Pokemon relationship, not Infernape's past, well I guess outside of Blaze, but it was Ash and Infernape that came out on top, again not being defined by its past with Paul.
===============

This opinion is all of course under the assumption Stoutland dies, if Stoutland does not die, I honestly would then not care what happens.

I also suppose if Stoutland dies at the very end of the episode, then that would also be fine, but three quarters of the way through, then no.

 

[Jaye]

It's not developing under Ash which will ultimately be better. Right now Litten is only being defined by its likely failing relationship (continuing) with Stoutland (AKA likely dead), which really does nothing for Litten and Ash outside of ultimately how Ash ends up with Litten but it does nothing to define their future bond it'll only guide it.

Just like Ash and Infernape, Paul didn't define Infernape, but it was how Ash and Infernape came together, but everything that Ash and Infernape did together as an accomplishment was because of their trainer and Pokemon relationship, not Infernape's past, well I guess outside of Blaze, but it was Ash and Infernape that came out on top, again not being defined by its past with Paul.

Infernape WAS defined by its past with Paul, though. If not for Paul's crappy treatment of it there wouldn't have been a story to begin with, and the ultimate conclusion of that story was Infernape - and by extension, Ash - proving Paul wrong. Take that away and the arc isn't nearly as good.

This arc with Stoutland is good because when the time comes for Litten to join Ash it has a meaningful history that can play into future development. As a character I'm far more invested in Litten, because it has its own story exclusive of Ash, and I want to know what happens next. If Stoutland dies, how does Ash play a part? Then the story continues from there.

They don't have to rush its development or capture. Nor do I quite understand the idea a Pokemon needs to be caught or with a trainer for its development to be relevant. Ash can't do much more with the situation as it is. It's a crucial part of his character to respect the wishes of the Pokemon he meets and owns, and as far as he's concerned Litten's situation isn't bad enough that he needs to intervene.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

That's not my point, a Pokemon should not be defined by its past, the importance of a Pokemon is the relationship it has with its trainer, which mostly (read again mostly not completely) is related to it being caught. Chimchar had an interesting backstory, but it didn't go anywhere UNTIL Ash caught it. Chimchar/Monferno/Infernape were not defined by their past with Paul but its relationship with Ash starting when Ash caught it. The problem however is how long it took, which I definitely don't want for Litten as it has no reason to take AS long as Chimchar

Why do I have a feeling that development will only be interesting to you if a 'mon is caught as soon as possible. Did you prefer the capture of Oshawott, for instance?

What I'm saying is I don't want Litten to solely be defined by Stoutland, but by its relationship with Ash.

Litten's relationship will most likely not be only defined by Stoutland once it evolves. Litten will be around for like 90+ episodes after it's capture, so does it matter if only a measly 3-4 episodes are given for Stoutland development? Since after Litten's capture, it's development will be with Ash. [/QUOTE]

You're missing my point. This is a waste as it pertains to the one hour 20th anniversary special. Like I said, I'd rather look forward to Tapu Koko than a Pokemon dying and NOTHING happens as a result except more waiting..

You're acting as if Tapu koko drama will end with this episode. This would be a simple battle (I guess?) and I'll bet that this won't wrap up Tapu Koko, so it should be equally worthless to you, unless you're one of those people who need nothing but battles.

I don't know why people are so desperately wanting a completely tearjerker episode to follow the Ash and Pikachu episode, as of the one hour special. Why would you want an episode where a Pokemon will likely die, and nothing will come out of it outside of creating unnecessary drama between Litten and Ash (the speculation Litten will blame Ash or wants nothing to do with Ash), or just simply running away until the next episode.

We would want such an episode for character development. Simple answer. We'd like to see Litten's reaction to the situation.

So what we're left with is a dead Pokemon, a broken Litten, a confused Ash and that's how all of you want the 20th anniversary of the anime to be celebrate?

This 'celebration' of the 20th anniversary would pay off when Incineroar becomes Ash's best Pokemon of Alola.

At least a capture would at least be worth it to having seen an episode about a Pokemon dying and the consequences that follow. At least something "beneficial" would come from a completely morbid sad story.

Captures are not everything.

I also suppose if Stoutland dies at the very end of the episode, then that would also be fine, but three quarters of the way through, then no.

At the end of episode will leave us with a cliffhanger, which would be even more hated.

 

[IncineROAR]

I don't care if Mooland dies personally.

You're just a bright ray of sunshine aren't you?

After reading the episode synopsis, I don't think Litten will join Ash's team in this episode.

 

[dman_dustin]

Infernape WAS defined by its past with Paul, though. If not for Paul's crappy treatment of it there wouldn't have been a story to begin with, and the ultimate conclusion of that story was Infernape - and by extension, Ash - proving Paul wrong. Take that away and the arc isn't nearly as good.

This arc with Stoutland is good because when the time comes for Litten to join Ash it has a meaningful history that can play into future development. As a character I'm far more invested in Litten, because it has its own story exclusive of Ash, and I want to know what happens next. If Stoutland dies, how does Ash play a part? Then the story continues from there.

They don't have to rush its development or capture. Nor do I quite understand the idea a Pokemon needs to be caught or with a trainer for its development to be relevant. Ash can't do much more with the situation as it is. It's a crucial part of his character to respect the wishes of the Pokemon he meets and owns, and as far as he's concerned Litten's situation isn't bad enough that he needs to intervene.

So what you're saying was that Ash and Infernape's accomplishments had absolutely nothing to do with Infernape's relationship and bond with Ash, but ONLY because of Paul.

So basically...Paul trained it, Ash just used it?

You also seem to be under the wrong assumption that I had a problem with it. Chimchar/Monferno/Infernape was nothing before it was with Ash, it was just one of Paul's Pokemon. It was only because it was with Ash did it as a character have any meaning.

Stoutland dying doesn't have any meaning, Incineroar isn't going to remember Stoutland dying in its major future battle and somehow come in top, its going to be because the relationship it has with Ash.

 

[Iteru]

You're just a bright ray of sunshine aren't you?

Hey I'd care if Nyabby died. Or Iwanko. Maybe not Pikachu.

 

[Jaye]

So what you're saying was that Ash and Infernape's accomplishments had absolutely nothing to do with Infernape's relationship and bond with Ash, but ONLY because of Paul.

So basically...Paul trained it, Ash just used it?

That's not what I said at all. I said that Infernape's character and problems were tied directly to Paul's treatment of it, therefore it was defined by Paul as well as Ash. Its accomplishments would not have meant as much as they did without Paul.

You also seem to be under the wrong assumption that I had a problem with it. Chimchar/Monferno/Infernape was nothing before it was with Ash, it was just one of Paul's Pokemon. It was only because it was with Ash did it as a character have any meaning.

I didn't assume anything. I only contested your view that Infernape wasn't defined by its past with Paul.

Having said that, I have no idea how you've concluded that Chimchar only had meaning as a character because it was with Ash. Before it even joined Ash, Chimchar was established to have its own past and problems. It was already a central part of the conflict between Ash/Paul, and served to draw out the worst of Paul's qualities. How much more meaningful does a character need to be? Or are you saying that none of those things matter because it wasn't Ash's Pokemon?

Stoutland dying doesn't have any meaning, Incineroar isn't going to remember Stoutland dying in its major future battle and somehow come in top, its going to be because the relationship it has with Ash.

I don't know what they're planning for future episodes or story arcs, but this statement seems very dismissive. Stoutland is an important attachment for Litten, so much so that much of Litten's actions are defined by it. Losing that attachment (if they indeed go down that route) would 100% have an impact on Litten and play a role in any future character development.

 

[SammyW27]

LOL at the people who think a Pokemon will actually die on this show.

Yes, it would be a good development for Litten. Yes, it would a good reason for it to go with Ash. Yes, the Show is just a teeny bit bolder than it used to be.

...but none of that matters because death was ruled out a LONG time ago. And before anyone brings up Lysandre and/or Hunter J & crew, their fates were left open and ambiguous, which is loophole for them to dance around (as annoying it is).

Mind you, it could still happen, but knowing this show Stoutland will get a new home and Litten will join Ash out of gratitude or something like that.

We'll have to wait and see, but no one should get their hopes up. Remember what happened with the Kalos League (and Amourshipping)...

 

[ii kanji]

Maybe not Pikachu.

I think you should have your italics removed for such blasphemy.

 

[SamurottMan]

We'll have to wait and see, but no one should get their hopes up. Remember what happened with the Kalos League (and Amourshipping)...

Nothing/No one/Nowhere there was no hint that Ash would win the League. It was just most viewers wish and they made themselves believe Ash would win and then they got disappointed. But that whole thing is on viewers, nothing to do with production.

Amourshipping is real, though. Serena kisses Ash. Sure it's not a factor for SM Ash, but Serena's story concluded with Amourshipping being proven to be true.

 

[SinnohEevee]

LOL at the people who think a Pokemon will actually die on this show.

Yes, it would be a good development for Litten. Yes, it would a good reason for it to go with Ash. Yes, the Show is just a teeny bit bolder than it used to be.

...but none of that matters because death was ruled out a LONG time ago. And before anyone brings up Lysandre and/or Hunter J & crew, their fates were left open and ambiguous, which is loophole for them to dance around (as annoying it is).

Mind you, it could still happen, but knowing this show Stoutland will get a new home and Litten will join Ash out of gratitude or something like that.

We'll have to wait and see, but no one should get their hopes up. Remember what happened with the Kalos League (and Amourshipping)...

M05 had Latios dying.

 

[Alola]

Pokemon deaths in the anime aren't unheard of. Latios, Lucario and Celebi (albeit it was later revived) have all died. Thus I don't think Stoutland passing away is too Farfetch'd. Especially given the aspect of human death that we saw in XY.

 

[Simpsons138]

I think this is kinda getting out of hand here