Speculation: Ways Legends Z-A could affect Horizons?

[Vengeful Ghost]

The fact that Ash's story is left open ended has been largely interpreted as a safety net for the creative team. It makes it extremely easy for them to bring him back whether it's as a special, movie, making him the protagonist again or whatever. Even if Horizons wasn't doing well enough for the higher ups, I think that they'd keep Liko and Roy at least until Horizons wraps up. Maybe they weren't too worried about Horizons flopping with new leads, but making it easy to potentially bring your iconic protagonist back for whatever reason can be read as such.

I hate the term, but I think this is why there is such a strategic ambiguity over whether or not Horizons takes place in the same continuity as Ash’s journeys. If the numbers the executives want aren’t being met, they have a means to slowly introduce characters from Ash’s journeys before reintroducing Ash himself. If the numbers are met without Ash, then they have an opportunity to give Horizons more of its own identity.

 

[SatoSerefan5229]

I hate the term, but I think this is why there is such a strategic ambiguity over whether or not Horizons takes place in the same continuity as Ash’s journeys. If the numbers the executives want aren’t being met, they have a means to slowly introduce characters from Ash’s journeys before reintroducing Ash himself. If the numbers are met without Ash, then they have an opportunity to give Horizons more of its own identity.

I heard the ratings for Horizons is the best since late XYZ.

 

[Princess Viola]

If I can be 100% honest, I think we're all thinking about this way more than any of the staff of Pokémon Horizons have thought about it.

 

[Vengeful Ghost]

I heard the ratings for Horizons is the best since late XYZ.

I don’t put too much stock in TV ratings since the 2023-2024 landscape is different from the 2013-2016 landscape.

 

[SatoSerefan5229]

I don’t put too much stock in TV ratings since the 2023-2024 landscape is different from the 2013-2016 landscape.

But the ratings for both SM & JN were horrendous. SM highest rated episode was lower than the average of XY/XYZ. Not to mention the move from Thursday to Sunday really tanked the ratings. Only did moving to Friday help stabilize but the damage had already been done. A lot of fans had a sour taste in their mouths after Ash got screwed out of the Kalos League. I was afraid that if Alain faced Ash again in the Masters 8, Alain once again would beat Ash. But I felt his inclusion was unnecessary since Diantha was also in the Masters 8 so no need for 2 Kalos trainers.

 

[Articfoxgamez]

Ratings are only a very very small portion of the fanbase, especially when it comes to something like Pokemon, a good chunk of the viewer base are kids who probably don't know HOW you rate something.

 

[Hidden Mew]

But the ratings for both SM & JN were horrendous. SM highest rated episode was lower than the average of XY/XYZ. Not to mention the move from Thursday to Sunday really tanked the ratings. Only did moving to Friday help stabilize but the damage had already been done. A lot of fans had a sour taste in their mouths after Ash got screwed out of the Kalos League. I was afraid that if Alain faced Ash again in the Masters 8, Alain once again would beat Ash. But I felt his inclusion was unnecessary since Diantha was also in the Masters 8 so no need for 2 Kalos trainers.

There was no way that Ash was going to lose to Alain. They wouldn't have him get to the Master Class only for him to not even battle against Leon, which was his main motivation for joining the WPC in the first place. I don't think that having two Kalos trainers is really an issue when technically both Ash and Lance could represent Kanto, even though Lance was probably seen as Johto representation given that is where he is the regional champion. I also think that you're overselling how upset people were over the Kalos League. Not that there weren't people still upset about it, but I don't think that greatly affected how either SM or Journeys performed ratings wise. I think that is a case of a vocal minority at best as opposed to the vast majority of the fanbase still being bitter about the Kalos League by the time Journeys or even SM ended.

As for ratings, I really don't think that matters that much, especially for a merchandise driven franchise like Pokemon. I'm not sure what the TV landscape is like in Japan, but with the rise of Internet and streaming services over the years, I'm sure that fewer kids are watching the anime on live TV. The higher ups are probably much more interested in the sales for the merchandise more so than the ratings for the anime.

 

[UxieLover1994]

I think we've gone a bit off-topic here, as the forum's content is how the upcoming PLZA would affect the anime instead of yet another conversation about Ash's departure and ratings. And I'm convinced that Ash will return in time for whatever the anime has plans to promote PLZA (or a bait-and-switch that becomes a mini-sequel to XYZ).

 

[SatoSerefan5229]

I think we've gone a bit off-topic here, as the forum's content is how the upcoming PLZA would affect the anime instead of yet another conversation about Ash's departure and ratings. And I'm convinced that Ash will return in time for whatever the anime has plans to promote PLZA (or a bait-and-switch that becomes a mini-sequel to XYZ).

Ash will never return to the main anime.

 

[SammyW27]

I think we've gone a bit off-topic here, as the forum's content is how the upcoming PLZA would affect the anime instead of yet another conversation about Ash's departure and ratings.

Thank you.
What in the world would Ash coming back or not have anything to do with Legends Z-A????

 

[Hidden Mew]

Ash will never return to the main anime.

I don't think that's the case at all. Ash is too iconic and popular for them to never have him appear again. I don't know if they'll feature him in Horizons, but I'm sure that he'll appear again at some point in the future.

 

[TheMindOfThomas]

Thank you.
What in the world would Ash coming back or not have anything to do with Legends Z-A????

It would determine to what lengths they're willing to use the XY anime cast as a whole to promote Legends: Z-A.

People want a full Kalos gang reunion since that's something we didn't really get in Journeys. Sure, Clemont, Bonnie, and Serena got individual returns, but the whole gang was never seen together at once, even in flashbacks. Also, in the case of Serena, her reunion with Ash was fairly short, and the full potential of their relationship post-XYZ wasn't explored - even if the scene itself was a masterpiece.

With the release of Legends: Z-A, we're about to see a new wave of Generation 6 nostalgia that The Pokémon Company will capitalize on to create brand synergy with the game. If they were ever going to bring the XY anime characters back again, next year would be the absolute best time from a marketing perspective. But from a storytelling perspective, they're in a tighter spot with OLM having just retired Ash as the protagonist. So now, they're left with at least three options:

A. Bring back XY anime characters but don't bring back Ash
B. Bring back XY anime characters alongside Ash
C. Don't use XY anime characters at all

Naturally, what most people like the ones I described above want is Option B, where we get a full Kalos gang reunion similar to what they did for the Sinnoh gang when Legends: Arceus was released. Then there are camps of people who want Option A or C, or even a fringe fourth option where they reveal this is an alternate universe entirely. That's why Ash is a hot topic in this discussion, and likely will remain that way until we have a better idea of what their actual plan is to promote this game.

Ash will never return to the main anime.

I'd never say never in any circumstance. Especially when we're dealing with a multimedia franchise that has proven time after time the lengths they will go to invoke nostalgia.

 

[SatoSerefan5229]

I don't think that's the case at all. Ash is too iconic and popular for them to never have him appear again. I don't know if they'll feature him in Horizons, but I'm sure that he'll appear again at some point in the future.

Maybe in a movie/special but he would be older, like at least 20 years old.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Maybe in a movie/special but he would be older, like at least 20 years old.

I don't see why they'd age Ash into an adult. Even if he isn't the protagonist, I don't see them wanting to turn Ash into an adult. They'd probably would still want to make him recognizable to both new and long time fans. Plus, turning Ash into an adult has always felt largely pointless to me. He would still basically age the same, so it doesn't matter if he's ten or thirty.

 

[SatoSerefan5229]

I don't see why they'd age Ash into an adult. Even if he isn't the protagonist, I don't see them wanting to turn Ash into an adult. They'd probably would still want to make him recognizable to both new and long time fans. Plus, turning Ash into an adult has always felt largely pointless to me. He would still basically age the same, so it doesn't matter if he's ten or thirty.

But fans got sick & tired of Ash not aging with every new region. It felt like his accomplishments in prior regions don’t mean jack.

 

[Vengeful Ghost]

But fans got sick & tired of Ash not aging with every new region. It felt like his accomplishments in prior regions don’t mean jack.

The problem people had with Ash is the same problem people have with eternal protagonists. You’ll find that the whole “their stories/accomplishments didn’t mean anything” criticism levied at characters like Batman or Spider-Man the same way they are levied at Ash. If you haven’t noticed, the former two have aged and still get the same criticism.

 

[SatoSerefan5229]

The problem people had with Ash is the same problem people have with eternal protagonists. You’ll find that the whole “their stories/accomplishments didn’t mean anything” criticism levied at characters like Batman or Spider-Man the same way they are levied at Ash. If you haven’t noticed, the former two have aged and still get the same criticism.

But if Ash kept going to new regions, he has to grow up in age. Plus there’s no way less than a year passed from when Ash started his journey to the finish. It never made sense keeping Ash 10.

 

[Vengeful Ghost]

But if Ash kept going to new regions, he has to grow up in age. Plus there’s no way less than a year passed from when Ash started his journey to the finish. It never made sense keeping Ash 10.

Refer to my prior remarks about Batman and Spider-Man
You do realize that story logic and real world logic don’t need to match, right? It’s a fictional world where children control magical creatures to fight each other for sport. You don’t need to make it make sense.

 

[Hidden Mew]

But fans got sick & tired of Ash not aging with every new region. It felt like his accomplishments in prior regions don’t mean jack.

That wasn't because didn't age. That was because Ash almost always lost in Pokemon Leagues. That never really bothered me that much when I always thought that the appeal of the anime was to see Ash, Pikachu and his friends travel around the world battling and making new friends along the way. That isn't to say that the Leagues weren't important, but just that I don't think that Ash winning or losing made or break a series. It didn't make his journeys pointless.

But if Ash kept going to new regions, he has to grow up in age. Plus there’s no way less than a year passed from when Ash started his journey to the finish. It never made sense keeping Ash 10.

No, he doesn't. Time simply does not make sense within the Pokemon anime. None of the characters age. It isn't just Ash. Time just works differently in a magical fantasy setting.

 

[Karakuri18]

No, he doesn't. Time simply does not make sense within the Pokemon anime. None of the characters age. It isn't just Ash. Time just works differently in a magical fantasy setting.

Except Lance.