[SPOILERS] The story of Sun&Moon

[EmpoleonProd]

Actually Kanto came back on virtual console but those were the original RBY games. Lillie going to Kanto doesn't mean a return to Kanto though. If not Kalos, then Sinnoh would be the next best thing. But that is my opinion.

VC doesn't count because they aren't main series releases, when I say "last time we visited" I mean the last time a new game from a generation had the region in it, XY, ORAS, SM, for example, were the last main series new releases. VC's are re-releases, and basically official emulators, they don't count and I don't think anybody is satisfied with a 16-bit re-release. Almost everybody wants a Kanto sequel. SM has set up for one perfectly. Red finally isn't afraid to go out in public, he was training a bunch for a few years after his journey until finally getting out there in the PWT and even hanging out in Alola for a bit, Blue still makes fun of Red, Lillie is going to be travelling to Kanto. Samson Oak is a new professor we haven't seen before who's related to Samuel Oak. There's all the building blocks to kick off a Kanto sequel.

 

[The Outrage]

You know, I had a similar thought about that. But I feel like somebody would have discovered it by now if Aura Break had been changed to work that way.

That's what I was thinking as well. It's unfortunate...Game Freak could have actually easily incorporated Zygarde's story into the UB plot whilst not making it a critical plot point for those who don't want to use it. Sinna and Dexio could have speculated that it the cores saw the UB's as a threat and that their aura break ability would make them useful...and the of course Power Construct Zygarde against Necrozma who doesn't seem to be enveloped by the Ultra wormhole.

maybe in Stars

 

[Boss1708]

Is it true that SM leave many open ended things at the end? Other than Lillie going to Kanto and Hau talking about following her?

And is it true there are unfinished buildings and stuff in almost every town/route, ...? Can someone please confirm/deconfirm this?

 

[Esserise]

So, a while back, I asked a question about the legend of Solgaleo/Lunala's creation of Cosmog in the past. To reiterate, the story goes:

> The Light of Alola: The empty sky broke asunder, a hole appearing where had been none. A single beast appeared from in it: it was called the beast that devours the sun/the beast that calls the moon. The king of Alola bowed before it: the beast that shone so like the sun/stole all heavens' light. The island guardians fought against it, but in the end the beast had won. Then did the beast that devours the sun shine its light/the beast that bings the dark cast its pall on the line of kings. Then did the beast that had won bring nature's gift to bless all things./So would the beast that had won mark the path for all such finished things. Beast of sun and beast of moon. Through their union, they brought new life. A fragile heir in Alola born that island guardians would keep from strife. The ancient kings sang their thanks for Solgaleo/Lunala with song of flute. Two tones rang out across the altar - a perfect pair, ever after mute.

The part that confused me was that it said that only a single beast appeared from the hole in the sky, but also that Cosmog was born of the union of the beast of sun and the beast of moon, which makes it sound as though they were both present.

But having watched the post-game event where the player receives a Cosmog, I wonder if only one beast appeared from the wormhole, but then flew down to the Lake of the Sunne/Moone, and at that point, the opposite beast "flickered" in as we see in the post-game and helped to create Cosmog.

I also wonder... how are the "World of the Sunne" and the "World of the Moone," for lack of better terms, connected, exactly? Is there more to it? I haven't drafted a formal theory about this yet, but what if events in the two worlds play out in parallel, almost identically, except for where Solgaleo/Lunala are concerned? Because if Solgaleo/Lunala are really Cosmog that evolved under the influence of their predecessors, then where did the opposite beast that "flickered" in come from? Perhaps it was in the opposite world, following the exact same steps as its counterpart, and their simultaneous roars caused the two realities to bleed over one another just enough to allow them to communicate and create a new Cosmog for each world.

That's what I was thinking as well. It's unfortunate...Game Freak could have actually easily incorporated Zygarde's story into the UB plot whilst not making it a critical plot point for those who don't want to use it. Sinna and Dexio could have speculated that it the cores saw the UB's as a threat and that their aura break ability would make them useful...and the of course Power Construct Zygarde against Necrozma who doesn't seem to be enveloped by the Ultra wormhole.

maybe in Stars

Then again, it did take people a while to realize that Dewpider's Ability had a second effect. And the circumstances under which Aura Break would be affecting Beast Boost aren't exactly common... you'd need a Double Battle using Zygarde & _____ against an Ultra Beast & _____, and to have the UB knock out the _____ on the opposing team, right?

I mean, I only just beat the sixth trial, but if it hasn't been tested by the time I catch a UB, I'll remember to give it a shot. I wouldn't be at all surprised if nothing comes of it, but as you say, it just makes so much sense. Of course Zygarde would want to protect Alola if it could neutralize the UBs with Aura Break.

But I would lol if Zygarde got firm plot involvement in Stars. Got its third version after all... sort of.


Edit: So um, guys, you know that lone house on Route 2 (across from the motel), where there's the guy who says, "It’s good for kids to experience their own journeys, but running away without even word to your parents is another thing entirely. I tried to set that boy of mine straight, but when I did, I was the one who got beat...", and there's a bag of golf clubs in the corner which, when interacted with, says, "There are a great number of broken and bent golf clubs in the bag..."?

Apparently that's Guzma's house.

So what can we infer from this? I've seen some people latching onto the idea that Guzma's dad beat him with golf clubs, because of course the fandom would latch onto that. Anything to get that "Oh my stars and garters, how dark~". But I don't think it's that simple, or at least, I think there are some other possibilities here. It's true that his dead does say, "I was the one who got beat" in a manner that would suggest a reversal, which could imply that he intended to hit Guzma, but clearly Guzma turned it around. And I think what the dad says is also meant to imply that he was punishing Guzma for running off to start his island challenge without asking. He phrases it as, "it's good for kids to go on a journey, but running off without a word to your parents is another thing entirely", and then says he tried to "set that boy of mine straight" - I guess that's the reason why the professors always tell us to check back in with our parents before leaving.

Guzma constantly characterizes himself as "the hated boss who beats you down and beats you down, and never lets up." What if his dad attempted to strike him (not necessarily with a golf club), and then Guzma attacked him back? Now, maybe it was Guzma who hit his dad with the clubs, but I also think it's possible that he may have just retaliated with his hands, and then smashed his clubs in a fit of rage before running away. And, who did the clubs belong to? There are dusty trophies in what used to be Guzma's room, but there is also a photo of Guzma from when he was young and taking on the island challenge (interacting with the photos gives, "One of the photos shows a tall boy clasping his island challenge amulet with the clear glow of pride."). In the post-game, the dad says that the trophies in Guzma's room are for winning Pokémon battle competitions (using a Swagger strategy), so it may have been the dad who had the golfing hobby, and Guzma may have wrecked the clubs just to "kick his dad while he was down," so to speak.

The dad also says in the post-game that Guzma has come and visited a few times recently. Which gives me the sense that Guzma may be trying to make amends. Guzma's mom says that she doesn't believe the rumors that he's been "up to no good."

Notably, this gives us insight into why Guzma took a shine to Gladion. He recognized him as a fellow runaway and saw a bit of himself in him.

 

[Guzma]

Okay. I think they actually did it. They bloody well did it. They topped BW's story. They topped the story of my favorite games in the franchise. This is fantastic. The characters are more complete than the XY cast, they're more entertaining, and it just feels more... Complete. Like XY was basically a glorified tech demo. A decent tech demo, but compared to SuMo? It's nothing. My only problems are that Team Skull doesn't turn on Aether earlier and help you out, Poke Refresh doesn't have fun mini-games you can use to earn Pokebeans and that there's a lot of stuff "under construction," but overall it feels like a much better and more complete game than XY.

Also, Guzma is probably my favorite character in the franchise now. He's hilarious. Hell, Team Skull in general is great. Their encounter theme is much more badass than they actually are.

Hell, it's almost like GF knew Team Skull would be popular, judging by the Team Skull tank you can get in the post-game. They knew everyone would want to dress like them.

 

[Esserise]

You know, it occurs to me that we keep saying that Lusamine's behavior was influenced by Nihilego's toxins. But I'm not sure that's true, because as far as we saw, she never came into contact with Nihilego until she actually entered Ultra Space* at the climax. The earliest point at which she could have had any exposure to the toxins is after she enters Ultra Space, but that would be due to some off-screen contact. It is entirely possible that she never came into contact with the neurotoxins until she actually merged with Nihilego (at which point, she does go properly Ax-Crazy), and that up to that point, her behavior was all born out of her slowly-destabilized-by-grief mind. At most, only her rant at Lillie in Ultra Space can have been under the influence of the toxins.

* I've also been thinking about Ultra Space, in conjunction with what I said about Solgaleo and Lunala in my previous post. What if the Cosmog line isn't actually from Ultra Space? We know that's what the Aether Foundation theorize because Cosmog can open Ultra Wormholes, but that doesn't necessarily make it true. They could easily be missing key details (like Necrozma). I think it's notable that the Cosmog line don't have anything in common with the Ultra Beasts - they have different base stats, different Abilities, and can be caught easily in regular Poké Balls instead of Beast Balls (I presume, as there's no practical way to test a Beast Ball on Solgaleo/Lunala). All of which can also be said for Necrozma, who is implied to not be an Ultra Beast, but is still said in the Pokédex to have come from another world. So maybe, Solgaleo/Lunala (and Necrozma) do not originate from Ultra Space, but rather, come from a different world or dimension, and can simply open wormholes to Ultra Space because they have the ability to open wormholes in general.

Bit of unrelated trivia that I thought was interesting: According to a Skull grunt just outside of Tapu Village, Team Skull was formed out of the remnants of a group that organized themselves around a previous kahuna, but were struck down by the tapu. Assuming that Guzma rallied these people together some time after that defeat, it makes sense as to why they'd be receptive to his desire to refute the Alolan traditions.

 

[Boss1708]

Everybody is saying SM is full of "under construction" places. Is this really true? Can someone give an example?

Also, is it implied in- game that the empty sqares of land wil become gyms in the future, or is it just a fan theory?

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

VC doesn't count because they aren't main series releases, when I say "last time we visited" I mean the last time a new game from a generation had the region in it, XY, ORAS, SM, for example, were the last main series new releases. VC's are re-releases, and basically official emulators, they don't count and I don't think anybody is satisfied with a 16-bit re-release. Almost everybody wants a Kanto sequel. SM has set up for one perfectly. Red finally isn't afraid to go out in public, he was training a bunch for a few years after his journey until finally getting out there in the PWT and even hanging out in Alola for a bit, Blue still makes fun of Red, Lillie is going to be travelling to Kanto. Samson Oak is a new professor we haven't seen before who's related to Samuel Oak. There's all the building blocks to kick off a Kanto sequel.

Kanto was a joke in my opinion and a sequel probably won't fix it. I don't think any of those are building blocks to a Kanto sequel. And no, not everyone wants a Kanto sequel and it is the majority of fans does not want one in my opinion.

Anyway, this is getting off topic as this is about the story of Sun and Moon. The story I rate about a 7/10. BW and B2W2 did better with a 9/10 as the minimum rating for me.

 

[godiego]

Also, is it implied in- game that the empty sqares of land wil become gyms in the future, or is it just a fan theory?

they are given no attention in-game at all. they are not referenced to or spoken of at all.

 

[Esserise]

they are given no attention in-game at all. they are not referenced to or spoken of at all.

Doesn't the guy in front of the one in Hau'oli say something about it? Not anything noteworthy though; I think it was just along the lines of "Huh, wonder what they're gonna' put here." But that's like, on the level of the old dude with a Machop in Vermilion.

 

[Necrozma]

You know, it occurs to me that we keep saying that Lusamine's behavior was influenced by Nihilego's toxins. But I'm not sure that's true, because as far as we saw, she never came into contact with Nihilego until she actually entered Ultra Space* at the climax. The earliest point at which she could have had any exposure to the toxins is after she enters Ultra Space, but that would be due to some off-screen contact. It is entirely possible that she never came into contact with the neurotoxins until she actually merged with Nihilego (at which point, she does go properly Ax-Crazy), and that up to that point, her behavior was all born out of her slowly-destabilized-by-grief mind. At most, only her rant at Lillie in Ultra Space can have been under the influence of the toxins.

Her rant at Lillie was definitely due to the influence of the neurotoxins, however she most definitely was infected while in Ultra Space. The main reason I believe that is if you check this video from 1:52 mark and beyond, you will see Lusamine appear seemingly out of nowhere together with Nihilego. Before that, UB-01 passes through the rock before Lusamine appears together with it. So either it passed directly through Lusamine (and a single contact is enough to influence you as proven by Guzma) or Lusamine was teleported there together with Nihilego. In either case, she is in close proximity to Nihilego, so that definitely makes it likely that she was already under the influence of the toxins at that point.

I'm not sure whether Lusamine came into the contact with Nihilego earlier than that, but given how at the very start of the games Lillie is ALREADY dressed like UB-01, I don't think it is too far-fetched to assume that Nihilego occasionally appeared before Lusamine and perhaps touched her/passed through her, slowly breaking down her fading mental stability?

* I've also been thinking about Ultra Space, in conjunction with what I said about Solgaleo and Lunala in my previous post. What if the Cosmog line isn't actually from Ultra Space? We know that's what the Aether Foundation theorize because Cosmog can open Ultra Wormholes, but that doesn't necessarily make it true. They could easily be missing key details (like Necrozma). I think it's notable that the Cosmog line don't have anything in common with the Ultra Beasts - they have different base stats, different Abilities, and can be caught easily in regular Poké Balls instead of Beast Balls (I presume, as there's no practical way to test a Beast Ball on Solgaleo/Lunala). All of which can also be said for Necrozma, who is implied to not be an Ultra Beast, but is still said in the Pokédex to have come from another world. So maybe, Solgaleo/Lunala (and Necrozma) do not originate from Ultra Space, but rather, come from a different world or dimension, and can simply open wormholes to Ultra Space because they have the ability to open wormholes in general.

I should point out that in the games it is hypothesized that it is an Ultra Beast rather than confirmed.

Aether Report: Cosmog Cosmog is hypothesized to be a type of Ultra Beast that hails from another dimension. A dimension that we have named Ultra Space. When placed under sufficient stress, it reveals the power to create and open Ultra Wormholes in order to escape from its suffering. We are now working on a device that will allow us to manipulate the Ultra Wormholes created when Cosmog is subjected to extreme stress...

Wait... So Cosmog might be an Ultra Beast?

I may be wrong, but I don't think it is stated anywhere with 100% certainty that Cosmog IS an Ultra Beast. It can open a portal and comes from another dimension, so it is possible that the scientists made a connection and erroneously classified Cosmog as such? Just because they come from another dimension doesn't necessarily mean they stem from the Ultra Space.

Meanwhile, Necrozma strikes me as something in-between a typical Ultra Beast and Solgaleo/Lunala, if that makes any sense.

 

[godiego]

* I've also been thinking about Ultra Space, in conjunction with what I said about Solgaleo and Lunala in my previous post. What if the Cosmog line isn't actually from Ultra Space? We know that's what the Aether Foundation theorize because Cosmog can open Ultra Wormholes, but that doesn't necessarily make it true. They could easily be missing key details (like Necrozma). I think it's notable that the Cosmog line don't have anything in common with the Ultra Beasts - they have different base stats, different Abilities, and can be caught easily in regular Poké Balls instead of Beast Balls (I presume, as there's no practical way to test a Beast Ball on Solgaleo/Lunala). All of which can also be said for Necrozma, who is implied to not be an Ultra Beast, but is still said in the Pokédex to have come from another world. So maybe, Solgaleo/Lunala (and Necrozma) do not originate from Ultra Space, but rather, come from a different world or dimension, and can simply open wormholes to Ultra Space because they have the ability to open wormholes in general.

doesn't the Malie City Library confirm that Lunala and Solgaleo came from a different dimension? i don't remember the text off the top of my head, but i could've sworn it mentioned that they said that a hole appeared in the sky and Lunala/Solgaleo popped out of it. i suppose that doesn't confirm it completely, but going with the operational definition of an Ultra Beast we're given it would seem to match up.

Doesn't the guy in front of the one in Hau'oli say something about it? Not anything noteworthy though; I think it was just along the lines of "Huh, wonder what they're gonna' put here." But that's like, on the level of the old dude with a Machop in Vermilion.

oops i forgot that one, but otherwise....

 

[Esserise]

Her rant at Lillie was definitely due to the influence of the neurotoxins, however she most definitely was infected while in Ultra Space. The main reason I believe that is if you check this video from 1:52 mark and beyond, you will see Lusamine appear seemingly out of nowhere together with Nihilego. Before that, UB-01 passes through the rock before Lusamine appears together with it. So either it passed directly through Lusamine (and a single contact is enough to influence you as proven by Guzma) or Lusamine was teleported there together with Nihilego. In either case, she is in close proximity to Nihilego, so that definitely makes it likely that she was already under the influence of the toxins at that point.

I'm not sure whether Lusamine came into the contact with Nihilego earlier than that, but given how at the very start of the games Lillie is ALREADY dressed like UB-01, I don't think it is too far-fetched to assume that Nihilego occasionally appeared before Lusamine and perhaps touched her/passed through her, slowly breaking down her fading mental stability?

That's a good point on the first half. However, I think the time before then is a little too unclear to say anything for sure. I mean, for one thing, how genuine is Lusamine's reaction when UB-01 first appears at the Aether Paradise? She didn't seem to recognize UB-01 then, but as you say, Lillie was dressed like it from the start.

Additionally, we are told by Wicke (I think; it's a bit hard to tell who the dialogue belongs to) that only two of the UBs that we know have been said to have appeared in Alola in the past - Nihilego and Guzzlord. The rest are said to have had their first recorded sightings only recently, but Guzzlord is implied to be the UB that Looker's unit was pursuing ten years ago, while Nihilego is simply said to have been sighted in Alola in the past. We know that the wormholes and the UBs appear in some Alolan legends, as Burnet explains:

> "It's extremely rare, but sometimes a hole opens in the sky over Alola. It appears that this rift leads to a different and unknown dimension. The reason that people think there may be a mysterious dimension is because of the legends of fearsome Pokémon appearing from the Ultra Wormhole. It's very weak as proof, but I can't ignore it. There is also plenty of evidence already in the Pokédex for the existence of different dimensions, right? [...] Even normal wild Pokémon sometimes attack people, right? But the Pokémon that appeared from the Ultra Wormhole went way beyond that. They were called Ultra Beasts... And they were feared. If the stories are to be believed, the guardian deities of the islands fought desperately against them. But like I said, it's all legends and folktales. It's hard to know how much is true."

So there are actual legends about the appearance of Ultra Beasts, and from what Wicke says, it would seem that these tales were about Nihilego (and maybe Guzzlord).

It's possible that some of those legends could include physical descriptions of Nihilego. I'd assume that Prof. Mohn definitely looked into these stories, and all of his materials were left behind when he got lost in the wormhole. Lusamine poured through them after that, so those descriptions of Nihilego could be what she's referring to when choosing Lillie's clothes.

I should point out that in the games it is hypothesized that it is an Ultra Beast rather than confirmed.

Aether Report: Cosmog Cosmog is hypothesized to be a type of Ultra Beast that hails from another dimension. A dimension that we have named Ultra Space. When placed under sufficient stress, it reveals the power to create and open Ultra Wormholes in order to escape from its suffering. We are now working on a device that will allow us to manipulate the Ultra Wormholes created when Cosmog is subjected to extreme stress...

Wait... So Cosmog might be an Ultra Beast?

I may be wrong, but I don't think it is stated anywhere with 100% certainty that Cosmog IS an Ultra Beast. It can open a portal and comes from another dimension, so it is possible that the scientists made a connection and erroneously classified Cosmog as such? Just because they come from another dimension doesn't necessarily mean they stem from the Ultra Space.

That's what I'm thinking. In fact, all of the UBs' Pokédex entries say outright that they are Ultra Beasts. Necrozma's says, "Reminiscent of the Ultra Beasts, this life-form, apparently asleep underground, is thought to have come from another world in ancient times." But Cosmog's says this:

> "In ages past, it was called the child of the stars. It's said to be a Pokémon from another world, but no specific details are known."

Cosmoem's says:

> "There's something accumulating around the black core within its hard shell. People think this Pokémon may come from another world."

And then Solgaleo and Lunala's, respectively, say:

> "It is said to live in another world. The intense light it radiates from the surface of its body can make the darkest of nights light up like midday." / "This Pokémon is said to be a male evolution of Cosmog. At the activation of its third eye, it departs for another world."

> "It is said to be a female evolution of Cosmog. When its third eye activates, away it flies to another world." / "Said to live in another world, this Pokémon devours light, drawing the moonless dark veil of night over the brightness of day."

The Cosmog line's entries all use the much more ambiguous "it comes from another world" rather than outright naming them as Ultra Beasts, and Cosmog's even makes a point of saying that "nothing specific is known."

So yeah, maybe the Aether scientists were jumping to conclusions. Cosmog definitely seems to be extradimensional in origin, but is it an Ultra Beast? Perhaps not... but that begs the question of what exactly it is, then.

doesn't the Malie City Library confirm that Lunala and Solgaleo came from a different dimension? i don't remember the text off the top of my head, but i could've sworn it mentioned that they said that a hole appeared in the sky and Lunala/Solgaleo popped out of it. i suppose that doesn't confirm it completely, but going with the operational definition of an Ultra Beast we're given it would seem to match up.

The story (quoted in one of my above posts) does say that they appeared from a hole in the sky, and as I highlighted just now, there's no question that they come from a different dimension and have the ability to open wormholes to Ultra Space. But are they themselves Ultra Beasts? The Pokédex doesn't want to seem to commit to that, despite the storyline suggesting the possibility. Furthermore, it's hard to say considering that we don't get the opportunity to try to use a Beast Ball on them (which I'd imagine to be the main factor in determining whether something is an Ultra Beast), but we know that the Beast Balls aren't effective on Necrozma, their third counterpart, who is also only said to "come from another world" and to be merely "reminiscent" of the UBs. And, people were doubting the possibility that Necrozma was an Ultra Beast early on because it had a different BST and a different Ability - both of which are things that can also be said of Solgaleo and Lunala.

You know, I'd imagine that there has to be some kind of internal flag on which Pokémon are considered UBs, in order for the game to know what the Beast Ball is effective on. I wonder if anybody that goes through the game code will ever find something like that.

 

[godiego]

The story (quoted in one of my above posts) does say that they appeared from a hole in the sky, and as I highlighted just now, there's no question that they come from a different dimension and have the ability to open wormholes to Ultra Space. But are they themselves Ultra Beasts? The Pokédex doesn't want to seem to commit to that, despite the storyline suggesting the possibility. Furthermore, it's hard to say considering that we don't get the opportunity to try to use a Beast Ball on them (which I'd imagine to be the main factor in determining whether something is an Ultra Beast), but we know that the Beast Balls aren't effective on Necrozma, their third counterpart, who is also only said to "come from another world" and to be merely "reminiscent" of the UBs. And, people were doubting the possibility that Necrozma was an Ultra Beast early on because it had a different BST and a different Ability - both of which are things that can also be said of Solgaleo and Lunala.

well for what it's worth, the Pokedex also says Lunala is (perhaps) the female evolution of Cosmog despite in-game appearing genderless (which we know can't be a breeding consideration since there are tags for that). that contradiction would point towards Game Freak not wanting their headliners to be "not" Pokemon. it lines up with them quickly establishing that Ultra Beasts are still Pokemon just a little different. even further, every Ultra Beast, including Necrozma and the Cosmog family, have a similar motif at the end of their cry. it's a sort of metallic reverberation and it appears across all of them and all in the same place (the end).

You know, I'd imagine that there has to be some kind of internal flag on which Pokémon are considered UBs, in order for the game to know what the Beast Ball is effective on. I wonder if anybody that goes through the game code will ever find something like that.

Auras. there are no Pokemon with Auras that are capturable other than the Ultra Beasts. so i imagine even if you could hack in a Beast Ball and toss it at Lunala/Solgaleo/Necrozma, they wouldn't get the enhanced rate because they lack the tag (re: Aura). the only alternatives i can think of would just be a bit more cumbersome to implement.

 

[Esserise]

well for what it's worth, the Pokedex also says Lunala is (perhaps) the female evolution of Cosmog despite in-game appearing genderless (which we know can't be a breeding consideration since there are tags for that). that contradiction would point towards Game Freak not wanting their headliners to be "not" Pokemon. it lines up with them quickly establishing that Ultra Beasts are still Pokemon just a little different. even further, every Ultra Beast, including Necrozma and the Cosmog family, have a similar motif at the end of their cry. it's a sort of metallic reverberation and it appears across all of them and all in the same place (the end).

Yeah, I suppose that's all true.

I mean, there's no reason why they can't be Ultra Beasts. I'm just considering the possibility that they might not be, and may be from a different dimension than Ultra Space. There's enough wiggle room for the idea to have at least some plausibility.

Auras. there are no Pokemon with Auras that are capturable other than the Ultra Beasts. so i imagine even if you could hack in a Beast Ball and toss it at Lunala/Solgaleo/Necrozma, they wouldn't get the enhanced rate because they lack the tag (re: Aura). the only alternatives i can think of would just be a bit more cumbersome to implement.

Oh, good thinking.

And, flavor-wise, maybe the reason why Solgaleo/Lunala/Necrozma don't have auras is because none of them appeared from out of a wormhole when we encountered them (the aura is supposed to be runoff energy from the wormholes).

 

[vivian20]

If appearing from a wormhole = to be an ultra beast, so, are dialga/palkia and giratina ultra beasts? What to be an ultra beast means? To come from a different dimension? To come from a single alternate dimension?

 

[Esserise]

If appearing from a wormhole = to be an ultra beast, so, are dialga/palkia and giratina ultra beasts? What to be an ultra beast means? To come from a different dimension? To come from a single alternate dimension?

Ultra Beasts, as far as we know, are Pokémon from Ultra Space.

Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina aren't from Ultra Space; they all live in their own respective dimensions, and for all that we know, they were still born/created/whatever in the main dimension and then traveled into those other dimensions. At the very least, that's what Giratina's Pokédex entry would imply, with it having been "banished" to the Distortion World. That'd technically make them natives of this dimension. (Plus, we don't know how true the myths about them are anyway.)

 

[EmpoleonProd]

Pretty sure it's safe to classify Ultra Beasts as having the Beast ability, which the Cosmog family and Necrozma obviously don't possess. Unless it was meant to be broader than that. I don't think simply classifying them as Pokemon able to open the wormholes is good enough in my book. If I teach a Smeargle how to open worm holes does he become an Ultra Beast? Lol. Jokes aside, it's not Farfetch'd to think that Pokemon World scientists could eventually open worm holes, after all, even at least 10 years prior to the events of SM, Mossdeep Space Center scientists intended to open a portal to transport that asteroid elsewhere. I don't think simply possessing this ability defines a Pokemon as a UB, but I mean, maybe it could.

 

[Esserise]

Pretty sure it's safe to classify Ultra Beasts as having the Beast ability, which the Cosmog family and Necrozma obviously don't possess. Unless it was meant to be broader than that.

The games offer the implication that it is meant to be broader than that, as Cosmog is thought to be a type of Ultra Beast. As Tsu noted, it's only the Aether Foundation's hypothesis, but it's worth considering. The simplest way to break it is that Ultra Beasts are Pokémon from Ultra Space. We know that all of the conventional UBs are from Ultra Space, while the Cosmog line and Necrozma are said to be from another world as well. Their world may or may not be Ultra Space; we don't know for certain.

I don't think anybody is saying to use the sheer ability to open wormholes as the determining criteria for what is or isn't an Ultra Beast. If that were the case, then Palkia, Bronzong, and Hoopa would all be Ultra Beasts as well - but they aren't, as evidenced by the fact that they are all mentioned in SM as Pokémon that can access or manipulate other dimensions, which is information that Burnet uses in her research, but she doesn't ever say that those Pokémon are Ultra Beasts.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

The games offer the implication that it is meant to be broader than that, as Cosmog is thought to be a type of Ultra Beast. As Tsu noted, it's only the Aether Foundation's hypothesis, but it's worth considering. The simplest way to break it is that Ultra Beasts are Pokémon from Ultra Space. We know that all of the conventional UBs are from Ultra Space, while the Cosmog line and Necrozma are said to be from another world as well. Their world may or may not be Ultra Space; we don't know for certain.

I don't think anybody is saying to use the sheer ability to open wormholes as the determining criteria for what is or isn't an Ultra Beast. If that were the case, then Palkia, Bronzong, and Hoopa would all be Ultra Beasts as well - but they aren't, as evidenced by the fact that they are all mentioned in SM as Pokémon that can access or manipulate other dimensions, which is information that Burnet uses in her research, but she doesn't ever say that those Pokémon are Ultra Beasts.

Alright well I saw a few other posts were people were suggesting that Cosmog is because it can access Ultra Space. I was under the impression that Ultra Beasts were the ones with the Beast ability thing. Of course that may just be me.