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BULBAPEDIA: Suggestions, ideas, and problems

Discussion in 'Bulbawiki Forum' started by Politoed666, Jul 10, 2009.

  1. Tiddlywinks

    Tiddlywinks Member

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    It makes sense not to restrict Hidden Power to "Normal". Perhaps part of the reason it's been done like that is just because people aren't sure and don't take the time to figure out the effective type when adding the move. (As well as the reasoning you mentioned above.)

    Adding 6 IVs, 6 EVs, and Nature or even just 6 final stats is a bit of a tall order. There's a couple things about that. 1) To me, the Pokemon templates already seem a bit crowded/busy to me. I guess, if anywhere, there might be a possibility for a row of 6 stats right above the moveset? But I don't know... 2) We'd have to get all that data wherever it would be used. That's not exactly trivial, at least not for the average player/editor. Let me say: what all did you have in mind, besides just PWT? (I am kind of asking for as exhaustive a list as you can imagine. If you want, I don't mind if you answer, "absolutely everything" if that's really your desire.) If you know where there's stat data for all of those things and you can point to them all, that'd at least make it possible without us having to do exhaustive investigations ourselves.
     
  2. Trainer Yusuf

    Trainer Yusuf Leopard Owner

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  3. Carbonific

    Carbonific New Member

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    Can I take that as having permission to make those changes?

    If we did go for the route with just the 6 final stats, I suggest initially limiting the use of this addition to areas where the trainer Pokemon's levels and nature are static, as otherwise their stats become a range rather than a static figure. For example, between Generation 3 and 6, outside of the battle facilities, trainers had random natures. This was changed in Sun and Moon where their natures are static. Black 2 and White 2 had a difficulty system which changed Pokemon's levels as well, for example.

    This would limit its use mostly to the following areas:
    • Gen 1 and 2 handheld games. Stadium 1 and 2 outside of Gym Leader Castle
    • Generation 4 Frontier Brains, Emmet and Ingo, Battle Chatelaines
    • Pokemon World Tournament - All trainers
    • Pokemon Sun and Moon - All notable trainers
    Here's a mock-up. The final stats are shown, with the contributing factors being revealed by hover-over. I don't think it has too negative an impact on the aesthetic:

    [​IMG]

    Here's where you can find information from the above list:
    • Red, Blue, Yellow - "All trainer-owned Pokemon have 0 Stat Experience and 8 DVs in every stat, except Attack in which they have 9 DVs." (Source)
    • Pokemon Gold, Silver, and Crystal - Mostly ROM Editing, though lists like This exist for Crystal (may make your computer lag while loading, be patient)
    • Stadium 1 and 2 - ROM Editing (Tools such as This). You could also use This dump if you know how to convert hex.
    • Generation 4 Frontier Brains - Widely available (such as Here). Can ROM edit for a primary source.
    • Emmet and Ingo - They use generic subway Pokemon (Found Here)
    • Pokemon World Tournament - Region Leaders / World Leaders & Champions
      • Gym Leaders have 20 IVs in all stats, Champions have 25 IVs in all stats.
    • Battle Chatelaines - Likewise, they use generic maison Pokemon (Found Here)
    • Pokemon Sun and Moon - List of Trainers / Battle Tree Lookup
    For instances where DVs/IVs and EVs are provided, but no final stat, there are calculators online that can provide it.
     
    #2883 Carbonific, Apr 25, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
  4. Tiddlywinks

    Tiddlywinks Member

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    Yes.


    The conclusion I'm coming to is, IMO stat info would at best be useful for battle areas, and not really for everything else in normal gameplay (like simply "notable Trainers"). For one thing, any regular Trainer (even if they're the "notable" sort) can pretty much ALWAYS be bested by leveling up and picking a good match (and/or using items). Normal Trainers are never *really* difficult to beat. For another thing, who's going to be looking at these stats? Average players/readers won't exactly care. Maybe speed could be useful, but everything else is kind of...complicated; if it'll be any help (beyond what base stats would broadly tell you already), it's only after performing tedious calculations. Which just leaves niche interests, like speedrunners. (In short...not thoroughly compelling.)

    There are a few things Bulbapedia doesn't do, which includes strategies (like for competitive battling) or walkthrough-y directions. Your mention of speedrunners caught my attention initially, but thinking about it, speedrunning may be a similar niche that is simply outside of Bulbapedia's primary concern.

    That leaves battle areas. Battle areas generally *are* tough, owing to inherent restrictions. Anyone really challenging that could reasonably benefit from knowing stat details.

    All that said, it's a fairly tall order. If you really, really want something like this, I would suggest that creating user templates/pages to implement absolutely as much of this as you can may be the smartest option. If all the work to implement this sort of thing doesn't fall directly on staff's shoulders, that could only improve the chances of it being received favorably.
     
  5. MDGarchomp

    MDGarchomp PMD1/2 + Gen 4 forever!

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  6. MDGarchomp

    MDGarchomp PMD1/2 + Gen 4 forever!

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  7. Pattyman

    Pattyman Utopian

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    Attached Files:

    #2887 Pattyman, May 19, 2017
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  8. ewormPL

    ewormPL Member

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    It would be rather helpful if we could have advanced search for Pokémon with several criteria. Like a Pokémon that learns both Fake Out and Will-O-Wisp and is Fire- or Ghost-type. Or a Pokémon with a possible Prankster Ability and learning Encore. Or a non-Water type with Scald. This could include Abilities, evolution methods, game availability, egg groups, base stats and more. I would imagine that'd be a lot of work though...

    So how about starting with something simpler - showing base stats next to the Pokémon listed on moves' pages? For example, when I look at Final Gambit and see a list of Pokémon who can use it, it's obviously interesting to me what their base HP is. When I want to decide what Trick Room setter to use, both the bulk and the Speed matter greatly. Seeing the stats right there would be helpful.
     
  9. MDGarchomp

    MDGarchomp PMD1/2 + Gen 4 forever!

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