Sun and Moon: Filler Development Appreciation Time

[NeoMiniTails]

It's crazy to me how so many fandoms fear the idea of "filler" episodes. Of course, there is such thing as too much in-between episodes that do little for the actual plot however I feel like people, especially in this fandom, put too much importance on specific events happening to make an episode matter.

An episode developing characters and bonds are looked down on because they lack captures, gym battles, an evolution and so on. Much enjoyment is lost because people want to look down on EVERY FILLER EPISODE. I think that unless people change their mentality and just enjoy it for what it is, they will always be disappointed.

I think Sun and Moon is doing an awesome job this time around to make every episode count. It doesn't feel like each episode is separate from the plot but part of it. XY was awesome with this also. They fully developed every character with every episode so that they felt fleshed out.

What are your thoughts?

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

I think the generic "Help a COTD" filler episodes do bore me quite a bit, but those that focus more so on character bonding and developing those bonds can be fun to watch. I think it depends on the situation characters are thrown into.

 

[NeoMiniTails]

I think the generic "Help a COTD" filler episodes do bore me quite a bit, but those that focus more so on character bonding and developing those bonds can be fun to watch. I think it depends on the situation characters are thrown into.

I completely agree. Most "help a COTD" generic episodes can be quite boring especially when it's something that Satoshi didn't need to be there at all for it to work out. I love episodes based on the current main cast that teaches about the characters or bonds them. Every episode about the TRio's past has ended up being on my favourite episode list.

It would be nice to learn more about Satoshi this season IMO.

 

[Mayla]

As long as they're entertaining and have Team Rocket in them (and ideally decently animated), filler episodes are usually my favorite. I'm probably a weird Pokemon fan in that I'm less interested in battles, in an anime where battling each other with little creatures is literally the plot. Oh well... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[NeoMiniTails]

Lmao! Mayla, I'm just like you!

As long as they're entertaining and have Team Rocket in them (and ideally decently animated), filler episodes are usually my favorite. I'm probably a weird Pokemon fan in that I'm less interested in battles, in an anime where battling each other with little creatures is literally the plot. Oh well... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This is probably my favorite episodes in a nutshell. I will tend to return to episodes drawn beautifully. "Ghost at Maiden's Peak" and the Japanese version of the episode in DP where Kojiro ends up in one of his summer homes where his fiance happened to show up are some of my favorites. Neither have crucial or amazing battles but I love the interaction of the characters and learning more about the characters.

The episode where Musashi gives up Dustox is another favorite of mine.

 

[Mayla]

I'd really love to see the Dustox episode in Japanese, because I don't trust the dub to do it justice. There's a few important TR episodes I've unfortunately had to miss for that reason. I really want to see AG147 (Enter Manene! Mansion of Rest!) and EP129 (Happinas the Happy Nurse!).

 

[NeoMiniTails]

Oh you're so right about the dub not doing it justice. If I can find them in Japanese for you, I'll let you know. I would have to let you know through email since the website doesn't allow sharing those kind of websites on here.

I'm not sure if I've seen the AG episode in Japanese, but I'll definitely find them all for you.

 

[Jaye]

It's crazy to me how so many fandoms fear the idea of "filler" episodes. Of course, there is such thing as too much in-between episodes that do little for the actual plot however I feel like people, especially in this fandom, put too much importance on specific events happening to make an episode matter.

I'm glad you said this because I was thinking the same thing after seeing the reaction today's episode. Some actually consider the episode a waste of time purely because Ash didn't catch Litten at the end of it and it baffles me. There's a possibility of an arc that will develop a character (the Pokemon are characters as well, less we forget) and the relationship between two characters yet few seem to see the value in that possibility.

As I see it, the show has 150 episodes with which to develop a memorable cast and a coherent story. It can afford to slow things down and take its time to flesh out characters and the world. That it never has done this in its entire history is actually mind-boggling in a way, because it's so much squandered potential. I mean, imagine what characters like Misty, Brock, or Max could have been like with an extra 10 or so episodes that focused on them? They probably wouldn't have turned out as accessories to the story. So if Sun and Moon wants to give focus episodes to its cast, including their Pokemon, I'm totally for it. At the end of such a long arc, I don't want to be left feeling that more could have been done with certain characters.

Honestly, and this will sound really weird, but the show that Pokemon should aspire to is Gintama. Gintama is highly episodic in structure and splits its serious, plot progressing arcs between crazy, comedy arcs that have little to do with the story, yet it works so well because it does a brilliant job of rotating its large cast and making one-shot, arc-exclusive characters memorable. Even though these comedy arcs are technically filler, they're no less entertaining for it. I think it'd be great if Pokemon had a similar structure.

Filler isn't necessarily a bad thing in long running shows - it just has to be good filler.

 

[Mayla]

Oh you're so right about the dub not doing it justice. If I can find them in Japanese for you, I'll let you know. I would have to let you know through email since the website doesn't allow sharing those kind of websites on here.

I'm not sure if I've seen the AG episode in Japanese, but I'll definitely find them all for you.

I bet I could just find the DVDs in Japan Town, SF. Not too far away from me. Then I can own them forevah.

 

[NeoMiniTails]

Honestly, and this will sound really weird, but the show that Pokemon should aspire to is Gintama. Gintama is highly episodic in structure and splits its serious, plot progressing arcs between crazy, comedy arcs that have little to do with the story, yet it works so well because it does a brilliant job of rotating its large cast and making one-shot, arc-exclusive characters memorable. Even though these comedy arcs are technically filler, they're no less entertaining for it. I think it'd be great if Pokemon had a similar structure.

Filler isn't necessarily a bad thing in long running shows - it just has to be good filler.

Gintama, Fairy Tail, Sailor Moon, and Clannad are all fantastic examples of this!

Clannad is probably one of the most beautifully written anime I've ever come across. There's a lot character developing filler episodes in between the major episodes. When it finally got to the major episodes, the fillers made the episodes much more fulfilling. It made each character's relationship feel genuine and not forced at all.

When Satoshi truly grows close with Satoshi, and if it chooses to go with him, this episode among others will make it feel less artificial. It's the difference between Ash's death in the first movie and Pikachu trying to shock him to life (after an entire season of their developing friendship) and Victini's death which felt cheap for me in comparison.

 

[ii kanji]

I am completely on board with "fillers". They are the story!

I am also completely on board with anyone who wants to watch old (or new) episodes in Japanese and if you can't find them you can come crying to me via PM even though I absolutely cannot help you.

 

[Silktree]

The current slice of life episodes are fine since they flesh out the characters (including the starters) and their relationship with Ash.

It's a good thing that the first trial is coming up, though.

 

[Trainer Gabriel]

Sometimes filler episodes can be fun - and arguably even needed just to give a sense of relaxation time - and sometimes they're not. But the same can be said for plot-related episodes, too. It all just depends on how well the writing (relatively speaking) and animation are.

I just hate how about 90% of the fan base just doesn't seem to know what a filler episode really is...

 

[FANG-TAN]

You know what's fun filler?

This is fun filler.

Some filler episodes can feel just as epic as non-filler battle episodes when done right. As far as fleshing out characters go and just being fun with their "fillers", Sun and Moon is doing a good job so far because of the angle they're going at with the series composition.

 

[Kairyu]

Overall there's too many slow and uneventful episodes so far in SM, even if they technically aren't fillers.

Shit should be going down at the start of the series to grab a viewers interest, and to me the laid back structure of SM's start is just mind boggling. I'd even say BW's first 7 episodes were better at this point.

 

[NeoMiniTails]

I can definitely understand that, but there's also people who find fast paced to be also jarring. For me, because I prefer learning about characters before anything majorly meaty happens so that I'll care when it does happen.

I think it just has all to do with tastes. While I enjoy the action genre, I prefer slice of life scenes even for shows that are clearly not SOL. Lol.

 

[Jaye]

There are benefits to a explosive and eventful start to a series, as it does catch people's attention. It's like a show shouting its intent at you from the start, as opposed to the slower, gentler beginning that Sun and Moon is going for, where it's gradually introducing you to everything before the story really gets going.

Generally, I think slower beginnings work better the longer the story is. The pacing and intensity of the show should increase as it goes along, to create momentum in the story. So right now there's not a lot of momentum in Sun and Moon, but if they do it right there should be some by the time Ash leaves Melemele Island so they can go straight into the adventure part of the show without breaking stride.

Pokemon has never been great at generating momentum. Traditionally it's had quick starts with a lot happening within the first ten episodes of a saga (new companions, rivals, one or two recurring characters, captures, a gym battle, possibly a contest) but then inevitably falls into a prolonged stretch of filler with the odd really relevant episode in the mix which makes the show difficult to watch on a weekly basis. XY, for example, had me for its first nine episodes - it had intrigue surrounding Serena's relationship with Ash and some nice battles. But then it entered a 14 episode run of filler and it lost me.

So we'll see what they'll do with Sun and Moon. The fact that each island has a grand trial means the story should be split into distinguishable arcs, with each grand trial acting a climactic point. I have some hope this will be a better-structured saga, with good filler to go with it.

 

[SinnohEevee]

It seems most COTD episodes are there only to promote some Pokémon, and Ash doesn't catch them.

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[Fairy Type Arceus]

It's crazy to me how so many fandoms fear the idea of "filler" episodes. Of course, there is such thing as too much in-between episodes that do little for the actual plot however I feel like people, especially in this fandom, put too much importance on specific events happening to make an episode matter.

An episode developing characters and bonds are looked down on because they lack captures, gym battles, an evolution and so on. Much enjoyment is lost because people want to look down on EVERY FILLER EPISODE. I think that unless people change their mentality and just enjoy it for what it is, they will always be disappointed.

I think Sun and Moon is doing an awesome job this time around to make every episode count. It doesn't feel like each episode is separate from the plot but part of it. XY was awesome with this also. They fully developed every character with every episode so that they felt fleshed out.

What are your thoughts?

No fandom has the right to complain about fillers until it reaches the point that naruto has


Manga ended: Nov 10 2014
anime: ongoing

They literally have one canon chapter left to animate, and the naruto gaiden if they want to.

 

[Kisu]

I don't mind filler it's just when you have whole filler arcs,20 or 30 episodes long that it gets ridiculous

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