The anime and older fans

[Silktree]

It's nice that you've already made up your mind about the movie having such a stellar and intriguing story.

I realize that I am not giving the movie much of a chance, but I don't see how your optimism is justified. Saying that the movie had to be what it is for the sake of a good story... is laughable.

And don't worry, I will get sick of posting here soon enough. The anime is dead to me.

 

[Shadao]

It's nice that you've already made up your mind about the movie having such a stellar and intriguing story.

I realize that I am not giving the movie much of a chance, but I don't see how your optimism is justified. Saying that the movie had to be what it is for the sake of a good story... is laughable.

And don't worry, I will get sick of posting here soon enough. The anime is dead to me.

I never said that the final product will have a good story, but I am interested in the very premise as that has been something I wanted to be addressed in one form or another.

That's more than what I can say about the past three movies of Pokémon. And I have no intention of letting nostalgic goggles get in the way of my anticipation for the movie.

 

[SinnohEevee]

I hope we are told why Ho-Oh chose Ash, else, this movie might be a waste.

 

[Silktree]

If you're expecting an amazing answer to that question... You're naive.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

I hope we are told why Ho-Oh chose Ash, else, this movie might be a waste.

"It will reveal itself before a pure-hearted trainer by shining its bright rainbow-colored wings."

 

[Silktree]

What a satisfying answer.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

What a satisfying answer.

Indeed.

 

[SinnohEevee]

"It will reveal itself before a pure-hearted trainer by shining its bright rainbow-colored wings."

Still vague.
What did it see in Ash?

 

[Silktree]

It was paid by the writers to feign interest, lol.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Still vague.
What did it see in Ash?

He sacrificed himself to save Pikachu, which makes him "pure hearted".

 

[Silktree]

That was the original answer. After 20 years, one would expect some added layers.

 

[Shoutmon]

Reading this thread from the first page to the last is quite the experience.

 

[Mikuri]

And so what if he's actively looking for Ho-Oh? Does he have a good reason to do that? It seems like an ego trip more than anything else. Hell, the first XY movie had the gang and Diancie go on a quest looking for Xerneas...

I'll take the first three movies and the Lucario one over this mediocrity any day of the week.

Ash hears about the legend involving the Rainbow Wing he received from Ho-Oh and decides to become a Hero of the Rainbow, that's his reason and it's hardly different from fulfilling his role as an Aura Guardian in Pokémon: Lucario and the Mystery of Mew, a movie you seem to like.

We all get it, you're mad at whoever approved of this plot, but your criticism isn't even valid anymore, at this point you're just complaining for the sake of it. You're basically reviewing a movie which you haven't watched. Your comments would have so much more weight if you had actually watched the movie.

 

[FANG-TAN]

Alright guys, people have perrogative to be as cynical or hopeful about the upcoming movie as everyone else. No one's watched it yet so we're all going off of what's there in trailers and promotional material. Expectations are always different and with this being the special 20th anniversary of the anime series, it's obviously going to be contentious.

While that's certainly true, Madhouse and Ufotable (and KyoAni as well, who deserve a mention) don't put out many shows a year. So on a seasonal basis (since XY started airing) I consider Pokemon to be up there as one of the best looking shows. Kinda around the top five but never threatening the top.

Fair enough, I definitely think it's commendable that XY(&Z) and SM managed to have such quality animation while continuously going for 3+ years. It would be nice if Toei's animation team could be as consistent with their longrunners.

The Digimon franchise, as much as I love it, is handled like shit. The las 3DS game sold flopped, the merch is overpriced, etc. Pokemon on the other hand, sells really well and still makes money from the movies and other stuff. Pokemon is doing so much better even without nostalgia shit for old anime fans.

Obviously Bandai are a bunch of money hounds when it comes to their merchandise. Sentai toys are overpriced as well. No one's saying the Digimon franchise is doing financially better than Pocket Monsters, the question is why does the anime series avoid catering to the interests of the older audiences when their interests aren't necessarily mutually exclusive with the target audience? They're making profit but seem to avoid maximizing it as much as they could.

Revisiting older characters that older fans are familiar with who may be unknown to newer viewers VS. using new characters that older fans definitely aren't familiar with who are definitely unknown to newer viewers. A couple of posters have stated that "OLM knows best" but I think we're forgetting that they're only human and aren't immune to making mindnumbing decisions, which can very well be the case here.

Nothing can be done about disappointment, that I acknowledge. But it's understandable for people to use fan message boards and social media to vent their disappointment because it's not like they can do that anywhere else. It's a testament to how much they like the series, in a way.

And the "Pokemon movies can't have proper storylines, nor should they!" line of thought amuses me. The first three movies certainly came close enough, despite being held back.

Frankly I have nothing negative to say about the Lucario movie, myself.

Ash hears about the legend involving the Rainbow Wing he received from Ho-Oh and decides to become a Hero of the Rainbow, that's his reason and it's hardly different from fulfilling his role as an Aura Guardian in Pokémon: Lucario and the Mystery of Mew, a movie you seem to like.

Except Satoshi wasn't trying to master any aura powers or fulfill a role as an "Aura Guardian", he was trying to find Pikachu, who had been kidnapped. It's not the same at all, and considering you haven't watched the upcoming movie yourself, them reusing the same plot is a bold assumption to make.

 

[Almonds]

A couple of posters have stated that "OLM knows best" but I think we're forgetting that they're only human and aren't immune to making mindnumbing decisions, which can very well be the case here.

Yes they are only human. But they have also run a business for 20 years. Do you know how many businesses open and close/go bankrupt during the span of 20 years? Being able to survive is part of the reason they can be called "successful", and if they had been dumb like some people like to claim, then we wouldn't be getting Pokemon animes to complain about in the first place. They may not know "best", but they'd have a better idea on where money rolls in and how to make profit. They made Ash lose the Kalos league after hyping it up through a bunch of ads. That's probably not the "best" decision, since some of the staff openly expressed how they're unsatisfied with it, but that did not stop the Sun and Moon anime from staying within the top ten ratings, which means it wasn't the "worst" decision making them go bankrupt, no matter how fans rage at the episode.

 

[FANG-TAN]

Yes they are only human. But they have also run a business for 20 years. Do you know how many businesses open and close/go bankrupt during the span of 20 years? Being able to survive is part of the reason they can be called "successful", and if they had been dumb like some people like to claim, then we wouldn't be getting Pokemon animes to complain about in the first place. They may not know "best", but they'd have a better idea on where money rolls in and how to make profit. They made Ash lose the Kalos league after hyping it up through a bunch of ads. That's probably not the "best" decision, since some of the staff openly expressed how they're unsatisfied with it, but that did not stop the Sun and Moon anime from staying within the top ten ratings, which means it wasn't the "worst" decision making them go bankrupt, no matter how fans rage at the episode.

And as I've said before, I feel that the anime wouldn't last that long if it wasn't a well-backed advertisement for a popular brand name, doing the same thing that it does now without the context of "new Pokemon games".

They have a crutch in the continuing popularity of the entire franchise itself which they can make any nonsensical and rage-inducing decisions they want with the anime series and still make a ridiculous amount of money regardless. That doesn't make it any less mindnumbing, because is there anything to risk satisfying a wider sect of the fanbase instead of pissing them off? i.e. who is against seeing Satoshi win a league for once, will it make them lose money and why? What little kid would throw all their PokeAni merchandise away and quit supporting the series just because they decide to use past traveling companions instead of characters no one knows about?

We can't just assume everything they do necessarily makes sense just because they've ran the gig for 20 years.

 

[Mikuri]

Except Satoshi wasn't trying to master any aura powers or fulfill a role as an "Aura Guardian", he was trying to find Pikachu, who had been kidnapped. It's not the same at all, and considering you haven't watched the upcoming movie yourself, them reusing the same plot is a bold assumption to make.

And where did I say Ash was trying to master anything?

Didn't Ash discover he was a special one-of-a-kind snowflake who could use aura powers just like Sir Aaron? If I recall correctly Ash had to use said powers to prevent the Tree of Beginning from collapsing during the movie's climax. The movie presents an Aura Guardian as a selfless person who possesses these magical powers and uses them to the benefit of others. Ash fulfilled that role during the movie.

In the upcoming movie Ash discovers he is a special somebody that was chosen by Ho-Oh. He didn't get that Rainbow Wing randomly, he is destined to become a Hero of the Rainbow and he goes after Ho-Oh to fulfill that role. I'm not saying I Choose You! will be a carbon copy of Lucario and the Mystery of Mew, but Ash is presented as this uniquely amazing kid in both movies, which wasn't the case in the last ten movies (those were basically stories that Ash and his friends just happened to be involved).

Like I said in the M20 thread, I'm not trying to censor anyone. Most of my posts over the past few years have been complaints. I like those, I think they're fun to read. I don't have a problem with people who have a different perspective, and they're as free to talk about what they think as I am, but Silktree is saying people are interested in this movie because they, and I'm quoting, "enjoy mediocrity." This is quite disrespectful. And I feel that comments like these

It's nice that you've already made up your mind about the movie having such a stellar and intriguing story.

are hypocritical to say the least when Silktree has already made up their mind about this movie being the worst piece of storytelling since forever. Again, I'm not trying to prevent anyone from posting their thoughts about the movie, but comments like the ones Silktree is doing are borderline passive aggressive to the people who want to see the movie.

 

[Shoutmon]

the question is why does the anime series avoid catering to the interests of the older audiences when their interests aren't necessarily mutually exclusive with the target audience?

You answered your own question. Digimon Adventure IS a nostalgia series, it ended 17 years ago. Pokemon is still runing. This is why Toei/Bandai can make stuff like Tri. Because Adventure is an old show so they can make new stuff to appeal the people who watched as kids while making new stuff for current children.

 

[FANG-TAN]

And where did I say Ash was trying to master anything?

I got the implication here, where you said Satoshi fulfilled the role of an Aura Guardian:

it's hardly different from fulfilling his role as an Aura Guardian

What's an "Aura Guardian" who hasn't mastered his aura? It's one thing to be an otherwise regular person who has a naturally high lifeforce (aura/wave), it's another thing to be an Aura Guardian, a warrior who has mastered the manipulation and usage of it. If that wasn't what you were getting at, then fine.

Didn't Ash discover he was a special one-of-a-kind snowflake who could use aura powers just like Sir Aaron? If I recall correctly Ash had to use said powers to prevent the Tree of Beginning from collapsing during the movie's climax. The movie presents an Aura Guardian as a selfless person who possesses these magical powers and uses them to the benefit of others. Ash fulfilled that role during the movie.

In the upcoming movie Ash discovers he is a special somebody that was chosen by Ho-Oh. He didn't get that Rainbow Wing randomly, he is destined to become a Hero of the Rainbow and he goes after Ho-Oh to fulfill that role. I'm not saying I Choose You! will be a carbon copy of Lucario and the Mystery of Mew, but Ash is presented as this uniquely amazing kid in both movies, which wasn't the case in the last ten movies (those were basically stories that Ash and his friends just happened to be involved).

Like I said in the M20 thread, I'm not trying to censor anyone. Most of my posts over the past few years have been complaints. I like those, I think they're fun to read. I don't have a problem with people who have a different perspective, and they're as free to talk about what they think as I am, but Silktree is saying people are interested in this movie because they, and I'm quoting, "enjoy mediocrity." This is quite disrespectful. And I feel that comments like these

Satoshi possessing a similar hadou signature as Aaron was a plot device and not the main plot point focus of the movie nor was it the focus of anyone's motivations that fueled the progression of the film's plot. The anime and the games also establish that there's more than one possible Aura Guardian (Satoshi is not an Aura Guardian, he hasn't mastered his hadou), Lucario was training to become one prior to Aaron's death, so on top of that, it's not a special snowflake power at all.

Satoshi had the potential to become an Aura Guardian, but didn't pursue it and probably doesn't care. The stark differences between the Aura Guardian and Hero of the Rainbow Wing plot points are already self-explanatory.

Passive-aggressive comments aside for a moment (I'm not going to defend him for that), it makes little sense to imply that Silktree should stop disliking the advertised plot of the upcoming movie just by forcing a superficial similarity to one of his favorite movies.

You answered your own question. Digimon Adventure IS a nostalgia series, it ended 17 years ago. Pokemon is still runing. This is why Toei/Bandai can make stuff like Tri. Because Adventure is an old show so they can make new stuff to appeal the people who watched as kids while making new stuff for current children.

I was talking about the Pokemon anime in that instance.

There's nothing harmful about catering to the older audience and younger fans. For example, no one has answered this question yet: "What little kid would throw all their PokeAni merchandise away and quit supporting the series just because they decide to use past traveling companions instead of characters no one knows about?" Why does it have to be mutually exclusive?

 

[Almonds]

There's nothing harmful about catering to the older audience and younger fans. For example, no one has answered this question yet: "What little kid would throw all their PokeAni merchandise away and quit supporting the series just because they decide to use past traveling companions instead of characters no one knows about?" Why does it have to be mutually exclusive?

I don't know why they're not trying to catering to a wider audience and I am certain that kids would still buy the Pokemon games regardless who's appearing in a new episode or movie - perhaps it would hype the audience more if they used a more recognizable character from the games or from an older series. That, I would like to see, and it would be understandable if they did bring them back.

But they didn't do it for some reason and went with new characters for the 20th movie. We'll never know why until there's an official explanation, but surely the idea of using older characters would have been brought up at some point. Surely there would have been positive opinions about it. However, the conclusion is that they decided against it. And I don't think they would have simply tossed a coin saying, "Heads, Misty and Brock; Tails, New Characters" plot twist: maybe this actually did happen and they got Tails and just went with it because it wouldn't make a difference in how well they do at the box office
If they decided to drop the two recognizable, nostalgia-favored characters as Ash's travelling companions from the 20th anniversary movie that's supposedly going to tell the story of Ash's early journey's in Kanto, there must have been a reason for it. Maybe it could have been a dumb choice they made from a brain fart, but it could also be that they calculated what's supposedly better for profit and decided to take that route for reasons fans would never know and probably never understand.

Who knows, maybe the movie could be a total disaster and become the biggest failure of all time. But it also has equal chances of being a moderate or huge success. We can't judge right now if their decision sucks for sure just because it's the decision fans don't like (such as no Misty or Brock).