What do you think about TRio in Best Wishes?

[Warnerbroman]

I hope they go back to their goofy selves soon. They're too serious for me. Their role should be taken by Team Plasma. I hope we see them blast off soon.

And when that happens I hope Gio "cuts their contracts" if you catch my drift.

 

[Hellwarden]

One thing I hope is that they don't make any of the trio malicious in their acts. While all three of them qualify as jerks, I wouldn't really say any of them are bad at heart. They can be competent at their job, but still kinda good.

 

[Cybersai]

One thing I hope is that they don't make any of the trio malicious in their acts. While all three of them qualify as jerks, I wouldn't really say any of them are bad at heart. They can be competent at their job, but still kinda good.

LOL, imagine if Jessie starts acting like Pokehunter J?

 

[Tareshi]

Ever since Best Wishes aired, TRio(Musashi/Jessie, Kojirou/James and Nyarth/Meowth) had a major overhaul in their jobs as Team Rocket members. They're more serious and competent and they haven't blasted off at ALL.

I believe it's a refreshing change for the better but others do not. Others believe that they are OOC now. I believe that's not the case.

What do you think? Discuss.

If you genuinely think they're not OOC you don't understand good writing. They're OOC because they behaved like they were different characters the creators lazily slapped on old names and design on new and slightly recolored characters. Constant OOC and without even building to more serious TRio is just poor writing, serious once in a while when it calls for it is great but overdoing it as they did in BW ruined them. You can have a change of pace and prevent them from blasting off WITHOUT overdoing their OOCness, SM is proof of that. I hope SM grows more serious later and give them an overall better arc, but not overdone in seriousness as they did in BW.

What I can't understand is how so many liked them OOC and denies the fact that they are.

 

[Tareshi]

T

Who said their personalities are gone? All we saw was them focusing on their jobs. They can be the same dorky selves when not focusing on their mission.

They should have shown it then.

 

[Tareshi]

Team Rocket has change a bit, but at the same time, change is a good thing. Most people complained how Team Rocket has become a useless addition in the show due to how ineffective they were in normal episodes. Showing that they can be competent is a good way to earn their addition back.

To be honest, I think that Giovanni has plans for TRio to do something that isn't involved with stealing Pokémon like they think they're doing. It's very strange that the boss who had almost forgotten them at the begining of DP is now using them in a special project in a region where they have no presence. Not to mention that there has to be more with that secretary, she's sure appeared alot for a minor character.

Once that real plan is revealed, their old goofy personalities might return, but this won't happen until perhaps a few episodes or maybe even a third or half-way through Best Wishes.

Koromori is a odd choice for characters who are ment to become serious. Seeing that it's basically the cross between Zubat, Bidoof and Slowpoke plus it seems to be Pokémon that isn't too bright (it's abilities include Klutz, Unaware and Simple.)

Change is only a good thing when the change isn't crap.

 

[Tareshi]

They aren't acting out-of-character at all - they have finally returned to their former glory! *cue lightning, thunder, and echoey cackle effect*

Reminds me of their debut episode in Season 1 - you know, not total idiots.

No it didn't, they had their personalities in their debut. I didn't even laugh while they were so OOC in BW, but I did in their debut episode. They can be serious and KEEP their personalities, the problem BW is that they didn't show any of their personality and felt like different characters.

 

[Tareshi]

Team Rocket, especially the way they're portrayed in the TPCI dub, are very different characters from the Rocket-Dan. If you're only watching the dub, then you're not getting anything close to a full picture of who they are.

So not true.

 

[Tareshi]

At the risk of beating a dead horse...the Team Rocket you see in the English version are much different from the Rocket-Dan you see in the Japanese version. If my only exposure to the trio was from the dub, I'd probably hate them as much as a lot of other people do.

No they're not.

 

[ii kanji]

Wooooooooow, WHAT an interesting read! The consensus has changed so much over the years.

So not true.

Oh go on then, let's bash this out: why don't you tell me what makes you think that Team Rocket and the Rocket-Dan TRios are more-or-less the same.

 

[Mikuri]

Oh go on then, let's bash this out: why don't you tell me what makes you think that Team Rocket and the Rocket-Dan TRios are more-or-less the same.

Because their lines match their expressions.

I've seen Pokémon dubbed and I've seen it subbed. Before I began watching it subbed, one of the most common complaints I found on Dogasu's website (which I'm a fan of) was that The Pokémon Company International had turned Jessie into a sociopath who wants to murder her friends every now and then. And guess what? In the original Japanese version, Jessie is a sociopath who wants to murder her friends as well!

Meowth and Gourgeist were clearly afraid of her reaction once she lost the Master Class. They were very surprised when she acted all calm and collected and happy with her results. And this is just one example.

TPCi does make some unnecessary changes to dialogue to make Team Rocket """funnier""" for Western audiences, but to say that dubbed Team Rocket is completely different from the original is an exaggeration. No one here is claiming that TPCi does a wonderfully accurate job and that the characters are 100% true to their original selves, but it's absurd to think we're not getting anywhere close to who they really are. We are close enough.

As a side note, while I was playing Pokémon Moon, I was imagining what would be Dogasu's reaction to Team Skull. For years he has said that Team Rocket rhymes too much and no human being does that. Well that's basically what Team Skull does in the games, they appear to throw out lines that rhyme. They're in the games to make us laugh (clearly the Aether Foundation is the serious organization) just like Team Rocket in the anime.

 

[kantoskies]

I liked BW Team Rocket in theory but not in execution. The idea was to have them be more of a challenge for Ash, have an over-arching storyline, and be more menacing as villains. And I like this, the problem was they were so painfully boring to watch it wasn't worth it. And it was such terrible writing too-- there was no explanation in DP191 or BW001 about why they so suddenly changed their entire personalities, nor was there in BW023 when they went back to their old selves (though I guess we can blame the latter on the banned 2-parter). If I had to guess I'd say they felt like their new mission with Giovanni required them to be super focused all the time and once the meteorite mission ended they could return to their old selves. But this was never explcitly stated in-show nor does it explain why they kept going back and forth between their old and new selves throughout the rest of the series before settling on "comedic relief but without their old personalities/backstories" in Da!.

 

[ii kanji]

@Mikuri, feisty!! I love it.

Now I know I have not kept up to speed on the dub, but for sure Musashi has never been

a sociopath who wants to murder her friends

If I had to guess I'd say they felt like their new mission with Giovanni required them to be super focused all the time and once the meteorite mission ended they could return to their old selves. But this was never explcitly stated in-show nor does it explain why they kept going back and forth between their old and new selves throughout the rest of the series before settling on "comedic relief but without their old personalities/backstories" in Da!.

I thought the whole thing was lampshaded perfectly in the first radio show drama.

 

[Mikuri]

@ii kanji; I was just making a phrase similar to the ones Dogasu has used on his website.

Haha, it's funny because Jessie is an abusive asshole who hates her friends!

I don't really believe Jessie hates her friends. Like I said in my previous post, I've watched Pokémon dubbed and I always knew Jessie, James, and Meowth all care for each other very much. Their friendship is clear in the dub even with all these dialogue edits.

I could show you a million images in which Jessie appears with an enormous head that takes up 70% of the screen while screaming at James and Meowth for the tiniest things they have done that she is not pleased with, but I know that you (as a Team Rocket fan) are well aware of that. No matter which version of the show you're watching, Jessie is a crazy person. TPCi is changing their dialogue, sure thing, but they're not turning them into entirely different characters.

 

[ii kanji]

Actually I think Jessie is the closest counterpart and yeah, Musashi and her are more or less on par. (On a level.)

(Meowth on the other hand, the less said the better.)

BUT my key qualm is not about the characters but about their relationships. Sure the animation tells part of the story and is common between all versions, but the dialogue is really important. I remember a number of innocuous lines in DP being altered to "Jessie might hit us" gags. (It especially really jarred was when these were originally statements expressing pride/support towards her.) If today's dub is better in this respect, then great.

 

[Dogasu]

Adding to what ii kanji's already said about changing supportive dialogue to "she's going to beat us!" type lines...

The English Team Rocket trio is written to be annoying on purpose. TPCI fills its dialogue with so much outdated slang and unfunny alliterations and other nonsense that by the time Ash and his friend show up to stop them people are practically begging for them to send the trio packing. "Go Ash!," the audience is supposed to say, "beat up those bad guys so they'll finally shut the fuck up!"

I guess TPCI feels that if they were even the least bit likeable that Western viewers would feel bad for them and start to hate Ash or something?

While in Japan the Rocket trio is based on comic relief villains like Majo, Grokky, and Wather from the Time Bokan series, in the U.S. the trio is based more on comic relief villains like Bulk & Skull from Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers. It's no wonder the Rocket trio's way more popular in Japan than they are in the U.S.

 

[Johtohfiller]

As a side note, while I was playing Pokémon Moon, I was imagining what would be Dogasu's reaction to Team Skull. For years he has said that Team Rocket rhymes too much and no human being does that. Well that's basically what Team Skull does in the games, they appear to throw out lines that rhyme. They're in the games to make us laugh (clearly the Aether Foundation is the serious organization) just like Team Rocket in the anime.

Team Skull drop rhymes because they're rappers.

 

[SinnohEevee]

I wished Pikachu killed Meowth after the latter backstabbed Ash and his friends in BW047.

 

[SonansuMan]

How did this seven year old thread arise?

 

[SinnohEevee]

They came from an Alternative Universe.