What parts of DP didn't work?

[danh19]

at the time i was first watching I have to say that Tobias didn't bother me I felt it showed how far ash had come that he was the only trainer sinnoh who could beat darkai and tying with a latios showed how far ash had came as a trainer the part of the league that bothered me was the way ash's match against Nando was shown so we barely got to see quilava in it's first proper battle

 

[Hidden Mew]

Dawn's up and down with the contests at first was really strange. She had recently been super awful and then she got to beat May, which was really ridiculous in its own right. And that battle in general, May got off more attacks, they looked better, and Piplup should've been knocked out by the mirror coats, I think that letting Dawn win was really ridiculous. Anyway, I'm still clearly pretty bitter about this, because at that point May should've wiped the floor with Dawn as she had a ton more experience and Dawn hadn't been very good, but this is a very biased opinion. I also think it was a bit much to let Dawn get second in her first grand festival, when Ash couldn't get top 2 in his fourth Pokemon league.

I was perfectly fine with Dawn beating May. Dawn just barely got enough points at the end, so it wasn't like she absolutely crushed May. May did have more experience as a Coordinator, but experience doesn't always determine the outcome of a battle. Ash and his friends have defeated a ton of people with more experience than they have had. I remember that they brought this up in relation to Contests before May's second Contest and it does come down to luck sometimes. Not to mention Dawn was facing off against Glaceon, which had the least amount of Contest experience compared to May's other Pokemon and this was its first Contest battle after evolving. There wouldn't have been any point story or character wise for Dawn to lose when the whole Wallace Cup was basically her come back after losing two Contests in a row.

Now Dawn getting to the finals in her first Grand Festival is a bit much. It wasn't unbelievable per say and they probably wanted to get to the finals given how Contests weren't going to be featured in the next set of games, but I think not seeing more of her progress to that made it feel way less satisfying than it should be. Her victory against Ursula being so forced didn't help either. That was a battle where Dawn really should have lost given the damage she got from Ursula's Pokemon.

I totally agree with this, but at least she didn't over rely on it, still not as bad as giving Dragonite to Iris. I did really miss Ambipom, but I think they took away some of its personality after it evolved anyway, which was also disappointing.

That's true. The only advantage Dragonite has over Togekiss is that it was tied in more to Iris's goal than Togekiss was for May. That doesn't really mean too much when she didn't deserve an overpowered fully evolved Dragonite either, but there was more reasoning behind it than "let's give Dawn a sixth Pokemon just in time for the Grand Festival." I wouldn't have minded Ambipom's departure if there was more buildup. They quite a bit of buildup for Aipom's love of Contests and for the eventual trade between Ash and Dawn. Here it was just loving Pokemon Pinball after one tournament and deciding to go for that instead of being with the trainers it cared about the most. It deserved to go to the Grand Festival way more than Togekiss did and releasing it the way they did just felt so sloppy.

 

[Nicolas721]

My post has some repetitions but hey, this is a free country

-All rivals not named Paul lacked something. Call it screentime, team building, a creative personality...
-Brock's departure was forced.
-Piplup got too much screentime, and some of the attention Chimchar got should have been used on other Pokemon.
-There should have been a small post-league arc. Many episodes and many subplots of the Galactic Climax-8th badge intermission were unneccesary.
-Lack of team planning in advance, causing unjustified releases.
-Some of the lighthearted vibe the series had at the beggining was gone midway, see Rhonda.

 

[Islander Princess]

Dawn's rivals were really weak, which was pretty disappointing considering Dawn herself was a pretty strong character (both talent and personality wise.) Kenny was just dull and a pretty poor coordinator, Nando really wasn't all that interesting, and Ursula had some potential but really wasn't fleshed out enough to make an impact. Zoey was the strongest and most interesting of the bunch, but even she doesn't really hold a candle to say one of May's rivals. It was kind of lame to have Dawn as a really promising coordinator, but no one around to give her that extra push aside from Zoey.

Brock's send off was so terrible. I don't actually have a problem with him changing his goal to becoming a Pokémon doctor. The problem I have is that this decision came in ONE episode. Brock's goal for 11+ years was to be the world's best Pokémon breeder, and all of a sudden, after helping out sick Pokémon on a ship, he decides he wants to be a doctor instead. That was just...weird. If they had made this a gradual thing throughout the whole series, where we got to see Brock start to question his goal and take up an interest in what a Pokémon doctor was, then okay. But to have him change his mind after 22 minutes was a disservice to his character and a cheap excuse to send him off.

Dub wise, DP is an all around mess. It takes a really long times for the voices to find their footing, and a lot of the line delivery is really forced and not really natural to the characters. This is where Ash's "slang" begins, and it just doesn't fit. The worst disservice in this department goes to Team Rocket though. Between the endless puns, basically every line having to rhyme, and making it seem like the three of them can't even stand to be around each other...the DP dub was truly a nightmare for Team Rocket.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I thought that Brock changing his goal was pretty good. Throughout both AG and DP, there was much more focus on how he was treating sick and injured Pokemon than just being a Breeder. It didn't feel like a sudden change so much as just a natural decision he made after healing sick Pokemon for so long and being in a position where he was almost helpful to save Pokemon. More buildup definitely would have been helpful, but I think it generally worked. It probably also helped that despite wanting to be the best Pokemon Breeder for so long, the anime never really explained what a Breeder does. They don't explain what a Pokemon Master is either, but at least Ash does try to improve his skills as a trainer with battles. I don't know if that could really work for a Pokemon Breeder.

 

[Islander Princess]

I thought that Brock changing his goal was pretty good. Throughout both AG and DP, there was much more focus on how he was treating sick and injured Pokemon than just being a Breeder. It didn't feel like a sudden change so much as just a natural decision he made after healing sick Pokemon for so long and being in a position where he was almost helpful to save Pokemon. More buildup definitely would have been helpful, but I think it generally worked. It probably also helped that despite wanting to be the best Pokemon Breeder for so long, the anime never really explained what a Breeder does. They don't explain what a Pokemon Master is either, but at least Ash does try to improve his skills as a trainer with battles. I don't know if that could really work for a Pokemon Breeder.

That's a fair point. I guess maybe I just wanted them to be more blunt about it over time? I definitely agree we do see him treating more Pokémon as time goes on, so considering that, yeah the change of goal does make sense. I think maybe if they had shown more of Brock actually questioning changing his goal out loud or even in his mind than in just that one episode, it would have felt a little less jarring to me. I do see your point that they were perhaps being more subtle with it thought, which is something interesting to consider.

 

[Hidden Mew]

That's a fair point. I guess maybe I just wanted them to be more blunt about it over time? I definitely agree we do see him treating more Pokémon as time goes on, so considering that, yeah the change of goal does make sense. I think maybe if they had shown more of Brock actually questioning changing his goal out loud or even in his mind than in just that one episode, it would have felt a little less jarring to me. I do see your point that they were perhaps being more subtle with it thought, which is something interesting to consider.

Having Brock actually questioning his goal definitely would have been nice. I think that some of Brock's best focused episodes were in AG and DP, but giving him more attention by having him question what he really wants to do or if he really enjoys being a Breeder wouldn't have hurt. I can kind of see why they didn't do that, mainly because the show normally doesn't have characters questioning or changing their goals once they're set, but more buildup would have been appreciated too.

 

[GuyWhoTellsTruth]

I just wish Brock wasn't so unbearable in the DP dub- I watched the original and Yuji Ueda is so much easier on my ears than his current dub VA (shame Eric Stuart couldn't be kept for his final main saga in the dub) & Brock doesn't rhyme or alliterate when he flirts with women in the Japanese Version. Again, the dub of this Saga harmed my impression of the character, can't stress enough this is a big reason I disliked DP when it first came out.

 

[Islander Princess]

I just wish Brock wasn't so unbearable in the DP dub- I watched the original and Yuji Ueda is so much easier on my ears than his current dub VA (shame Eric Stuart couldn't be kept for his final main saga in the dub) & Brock doesn't rhyme or alliterate when he flirts with women in the Japanese Version. Again, the dub of this Saga harmed my impression of the character, can't stress enough this is a big reason I disliked DP when it first came out.

100% agree with you. I was still pretty young when DP came out, but I had fallen out of Pokémon for a bit and decided to get back into it when DP started. I could not stand the series originally. I at first thought it was because I was being too nostalgic and missing aspects of the old series, and I guess maybe that was still part of it. But looking back on it now, I realize it's because the dub was just so unbearable. Pretty much every single character who had already been established (Ash, Brock, Team Rocket, etc) was really messed up in the dub. Watching it back now, I realize the series itself is pretty solid, but the dub performance is still really hard to sit through.

 

[Poke Trey]

For me it was the slow pacing and yeah the puns, but I expected such, Tobias, and Brock being more of a background guy most of the series.

 

[danh19]

for the most part I liked the dub whether it's because that's when I got back into the show who knows

and if I remember right their was a reference at the end of the league about brock not being sure on his goal allow I agree they could have done an arc on this development which would have gave the character more to do

 

[GuyWhoTellsTruth]

for the most part I liked the dub whether it's because that's when I got back into the show who knows

Understandable, though I'd recommend watching DP in Japanese if you can, there's a lot of substantial dialogue changing that really alters characters' personalities in the dub this saga (particular the Rocket Trio). Although, for me, it's kind of the reverse when I began fading out of watching the show when I was little.

 

[danh19]

I've tried watching the sub before but their voices bug they just seem high pitched all the time

 

[GuyWhoTellsTruth]

I've tried watching the sub before but their voices bug they just seem high pitched all the time

Jessie & James' voices are actually deeper, but I understand it's not for everyone, you shouldn't force yourself to if you don't like it.

 

[ii kanji]

Does anyone remember the giza-mimi Pichu marketing campaign?... Yeah.

 

[Iteru]

Does anyone remember the giza-mimi Pichu marketing campaign?... Yeah.

When she realizes, where is she?
She's lost, looking around!
And then, little by little
The tears flow and flow and flow, flow, flow

Because, because, that little one
Is a girl, of course!

Just URGH.

 

[ii kanji]

Yup, it's as horrible as I remembered.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I don't remember that at all, but it is indeed awful and offensive.

 

[RetroPokeFan]

The English opening to the first Diamond and Pearl series was ass. Whoever thought having a rap was a good idea should have been kicked out on the spot.

 

[danh19]

I liked most of the dp opening themes but I got to say I never liked the first one and not just because I don't like rap