Christmas and Easter

[Jukain]

You didn't mention leap years, so I thought you forgot. My bad.

 

[Snake Bandage]

Did you even read the essay? The metric system is good for scientific stuff, but it's really bad for everyday use, so bad that people tend to just drift back to non-metric measurements on thier own.

I read the goddamned essay. The metric system isn't bad for everyday use at all, people are just idiots. I don't know about cookbooks in Belgium, but where I live, even when they write "so an so cups of water", they put the exact number of milliliters you have to use in parentheses. It's your choice if you're too damn lazy to use a measuring cup, but most people do have a measuring cup at home. If you need 350 grams of mince meat, they'll tell you that you need 350 grams of mince meat. And here, we do use milliliters for beer. Maybe the people in Belgium don't. In any case, that essay is a completely biased and one-sided account. The metric system is much easier to use than people make it out to be.

 

[ChaosRocket]

It seems like milliliters are much too small of a unit to really be convienent for measuring those things. I mean since you need so many milliliters for even a small amount of liquid, and there's no reason for it to need to be that accurate. Most units in the metric system seem like they're either too small or too big to be used for measuring everyday things. Like millimeters seem way to small to use to measure height. And then the UK doesn't even use metric for weight.

 

[The Big Al]

You can't be TOO accurate. And if you need a bigger/smaller measurement then move up or down by a power of ten. It's flipping EASY.

Frankly, I hate having to calaculate between base 6 and base 10. I don't even use base 6 unless I'm forced to.

 

[Kthleen]

Like millimeters seem way to small to use to measure height.

Uh... that's why people have meters and centimeters.

I mean, those of us who use Imperial (aka English) units don't measure ourselves in, say, poppyseeds (twelfths of an inch). I would have supposed (if I didn't already know so) that those who use metric would use something bigger than milimeters unless they really, really needed to use milimeters for whatever reason.

 

[Snake Bandage]

It seems like milliliters are much too small of a unit to really be convienent for measuring those things. I mean since you need so many milliliters for even a small amount of liquid, and there's no reason for it to need to be that accurate. Most units in the metric system seem like they're either too small or too big to be used for measuring everyday things. Like millimeters seem way to small to use to measure height. And then the UK doesn't even use metric for weight.

...of course we don't use millimeters to measure height. Millimeters are tiny, we use millimeters to measure tiny things. We use centimeters (and occasionally meters) to measure height. Since they're, like, you know, bigger? You'd have to be obsessive-compulsive to measure your height in millimeters.

Dude, seriously. Don't go on about how lame a measuring system is before you have at least a basic knowledge of how to use it.

 

[Girafarig_Magcargo]

Back on topic, it's not an accepted fact that Jesus was born in the spring rather than the winter. Since the Bible is enigmatic on the exact date, it seems that such a detail would be fairly unimportant.

 

[The Big Al]

The bible suggests lambing season (which is why that number of shepards were needed during the night). Lambing season is in the mid to late spring.

 

[Girafarig_Magcargo]

The bible suggests lambing season (which is why that number of shepards were needed during the night). Lambing season is in the mid to late spring.

"Staying with their flocks" is too vague to assume that. For all we know, there could have been theives or wolves out, forcing them to watch the sheep.

 

[ChaosRocket]

I know height is measured in centimeters, I dunno why I wrote millimeters, I guess because I was talking about milliliters earlier in the paragraph. What I meant was that centimeters are too small to measure height, they're less than half the size of inches, and meters are too big.

 

[Barb]

The Bible doesn't give the exact date of Jesus' birth. However, consider the weather conditions at the time of the year in Bethlehem, where Jesus was born. The Jewish month of Chislev (corresponding to November/December) was a month of cold and rainy weather. The following month, Tebeth (December/January) saw the lowest temperatures of the year with occasional snows in the highlands. Since the Bible indicates that the shepherds were outside in the fields with their flocks (Luke 2:8-12), circumstances indicate that he wasn't born in December.

Moving the celebration of Christmas wouldn't really accomplish any purpose. It's based on a tradition that's lasted for many hundreds of years and I doubt people would be receptive to changing now, even if they know it's not a Christian tradition.

 

[Girafarig_Magcargo]

The Bible doesn't give the exact date of Jesus' birth. However, consider the weather conditions at the time of the year in Bethlehem, where Jesus was born. The Jewish month of Chislev (corresponding to November/December) was a month of cold and rainy weather. The following month, Tebeth (December/January) saw the lowest temperatures of the year with occasional snows in the highlands. Since the Bible indicates that the shepherds were outside in the fields with their flocks (Luke 2:8-12), circumstances indicate that he wasn't born in December.

Moving the celebration of Christmas wouldn't really accomplish any purpose. It's based on a tradition that's lasted for many hundreds of years and I doubt people would be receptive to changing now, even if they know it's not a Christian tradition.

http://www.weathersa.co.za/Climat/Climstats/BethlehemStats.jsp

This gives the average winter temperatures at Bethlehem (which IIRC isn't too high up in the West Bank nor in the north) as somewhere between 50-70 degrees, which seems warm enough to stay out at night.

 

[Barb]

Bethlehem is located in the Judean highlands. Its altitude (about 2,500 feet) is about the same as Jerusalem. It is possible to have a white Christmas in Bethelehem. Remember that the shepherds were living outdoors in the fields with their flocks. This fact alone provides a definite time indication for the period of Jesus' birth.

The Scriptures report that Judean king Jehoiakim “was sitting in the winter house, in the ninth month [Chislev, corresponding to November-December], with a brazier burning before him.” (Jeremiah 36:22) He needed the heat to keep warm. Further, at Ezra 10:9, 13 we find clear evidence that the month of Chislev was “the season of showers of rain, and it is not possible to stand outside.”

The rainy season for Palestine begins about mid-October and lasts several months. Frequent frost is seen in both Bethlehem and Jerusalem through the month of December. Thus, the fact that the shepherds were in the fields at night points to a time prior to the start of the rainy season.

From Matthew chapters 26 and 27, we understand that Jesus died at the time of the Jewish Passover, which commenced April 1, 33 C.E. Moreover, Luke 3:21-23 informs us that Jesus was about 30 years of age when he commenced his ministry. Since his earthly ministry lasted three and a half years, he was about 331/2 years old at the time of his death. Christ would have been a full 34 years old six months later, which would thus be about October 1. If we count back to see when Jesus was born, we reach, not December 25 or January 6, but about October 1 of the year 2 B.C.E.

 

[Murgatroyd]

From Matthew chapters 26 and 27, we understand that Jesus died at the time of the Jewish Passover, which commenced April*1,*33*C.E. Moreover, Luke 3:21-23 informs us that Jesus was about 30 years of age when he commenced his ministry. Since his earthly ministry lasted three and a half years, he was about 33*1/2 years old at the time of his death. Christ would have been a full 34 years old six months later, which would thus be about October 1.*If we count back to see when Jesus was born, we reach, not December 25 or January 6, but about October 1 of the year 2*B.C.E.

You're calculating with greater precision than your numbers allow. "About 30" could be within several months or even a year or more on either side of the 30th birthday. "About 30" + "3 1/2" = "About 33 or 34".

 

[Barb]

"About 30" could be within several months or even a year or more on either side of the 30th birthday. "About 30" + "3 1/2" = "About 33 or 34".

There are a few other clues as to the timing of Jesus' birth and death. The record of Jesus' early life is very brief. Jesus evidently was born in the month of Ethanim (September/October) 2 B.C.E., was baptized around the same time in the year 29 C.E., and died on Nisan 14, 33 C.E. The basis for these dates is as follows:

Jesus was born approximately six months after the birth of his relative John (the Baptizer). The Bible indicates that John was born during the reign of Roman emperor Caesar Augustus, which extended from 31 B.C.E. to 14 C.E. and the Syrian governorship of Quirinius, and toward the close of the reign of Herod the Great over Judea. The date of Herod's death is debatable, but considerable evidence points to 1 B.C.E. A number of events intervened between the time of Jesus' birth and Herod's death, including Jesus' circumcision on the 8th day (Luke 2:21); his being brought to the temple in Jerusalem 40 days after his birth (Luke 2:22, 23); the journey of the astrologers "from eastern parts" to Bethlehem; Joseph and Mary's flight to Egypt after Herod realized that the astrologers had not followed his instructions (Matt. 2:16-18). Jesus' birth in 2 B.C.E. would allow for the time required by these events.

The ministry of John the Baptizer began "in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar" (Luke 3:1-3). That year ran from the latter half of 28 C.E. to August/September of 29 C.E. At some point in John's ministry, Jesus went to him and was baptized. When Jesus commenced his own ministry, he was "about thirty years old." (Luke 3:21-23) At the age of 30, Jesus would no longer be subject to human parents (compare 2 Sam. 5:4,5; Luke 2:51).

If you compare Numbers 4:1-3 and verses 22, 23, 29, and 30, those going into sanctuary service under the Mosaic Law covenant were "from thirty years old upward." It's reasonable to assume that John was the same age (30) when he began his ministry as the forerunner of Jesus, whose ministry began six months later. On this basis, John's birth occurred 30 years before he began his ministry in Tiberius' 15th year, hence somewhere between the latter half of 3 B.C.E. and August/September of 2 B.C.E., with Jesus' birth following six months later.

 

[ShowCreator]

After reading some posts on another thread I decided to make this discussion.

I believe Christmas should be moved. According to the Bible Jesus was born during lambing season which would be in the mid to late Spring. I don't know why the early Christians moved it to the beginning of Saturna (sp?) but they did.

I would suggest Christmas land on either the last Sunday of April or the first Sunday of May and it be a high holy in Christianity. Then the secular part of the Holiday could be tied with the Winter Soltice or New Years (New Years would give a whole week of extra shopping).

I would also suggest the eggs and bunnies part of Easter be moved to the Spring Equinox where it was meant to be and Easter simply be a high holy day for Christians.

Though I also believe America should go metric, the year should begin on the Winter Soltice, daylight savings time should be abolished, the electoral college should be abolished and other things that would help the world but never get done. Oh well.

There is no need to move Christmas. The church starts its liturgical year with Advent, not Easter. Plus, we dont know exactly when Jesus was born, and it doesnt matter WHEN we celebrate it, if we dont know. The point is that we celebrate it.

 

[Kthleen]

Plus, we dont know exactly when Jesus was born, and it doesnt matter WHEN we celebrate it, if we dont know. The point is that we celebrate it.

I'm sorry that I don't remember where exactly, but wasn't there a part of the Bible where Jesus says something like, "Do not celebrate my birth, but celebrate my death"?

 

[Barb]

I'm sorry that I don't remember where exactly, but wasn't there a part of the Bible where Jesus says something like, "Do not celebrate my birth, but celebrate my death"?

Christians are commanded to observe the memorial of Christ's death, which is referred to as "the Lord's evening meal." (1 Corinthians 11:20). The observance was instituted by Jesus on Passover of 33 C.E. (Matthew 26:26-28)