Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation III

[Daxdiv]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

Good editorial. I agree with it, especially since up until I played the other games, I had an unexplained dislike for Hoenn region as well.

Though the one thing that was bugging me was something I noticed recently, the lack of connectivity to the GBC games to the GBA games. This was something that didn't bother me as a kid since I didn't even care about connecting from it and I thought it would be sort of outdated for a trade to take place between the GBC and GBA, but it seems like every time I go into a thread about Generation III, there's always someone complaining about the lack of connectivity between the two. This didn't bother me as a kid and it still doesn't bother me as an adult. Besides the new regions= new start, so even if that option was available for transferring, I don't think I would have done that.

As for the story, I'll admit that it was a nice change of pace, even if I wasn't found of Aqua/Magma by itself. It wasn't until I recently played Emerald where I like the concept of them bashing heads and trying to get their ideals out of them where they became interesting. Guess it had to do with the fact that I didn't trust the opposite team in either Ruby or Sapphire and I thought they would end up betraying me.

As for the over-saturation, I believe that is what made me drop out of the anime in Johto, came back later, dropped out again, came back for DP, and this sort of applied for the games since I skipped out on buying Emerald, and Gale of Darkness after being fed up with the previous games and focusing more on my PS2 at the time. While I thought that Fire Red and Leaf Green were pretty good remakes where I finally "got" Pokemon, it still didn't stop me from thinking that if "Generation IV isn't good, I'll stop paying attention to Pokemon." Luckily since Sinnoh kicked ass, I stayed.

 

[Cybersai]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

I think the problem is a lot of you never got Emerald.

Emerald was a VAST improvement to R/S. Seriously, if you were disappointed with R/S, get Emerald and it'll likely change your opinion.

Emerald was a very fun game, and even those water routes that people complained about wasn't as much a chore. Was the random battle rate reduced in Emerald from R/S?

 

[H-con]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

Generation III wasn't bad at all. I only have Ruby (and FireRed, although this is more of a Hoenn-thing anyways), and while there's several things I don't like about the game (like the ever so many Water-routes, generally Diving and in my mind a very weak plot if you ask me, with very little credibility), that doesn't make them bad games in any way (in a pokémon perspective though). Heck, I could probably find more things that annoy me with HG than Ruby.

But the reason to why I like generation II better than any other is because Gold was the first game I really played. Sure, I had played Blue, but I shared that copy with my sister. Diamond and later Ruby seemed actually quite dull. Not that Gold was so great, but if I were to find a game that I've enjoyed the most in the years, I think it simply has to be Gold. I can't pick up Ruby and enjoy it, nor can I do that with Diamond and FireRed. However, I would have wished GameFreak would have been a lot more radical with HGSS and just drop nostalgia. If I wanted to play Gold, then I'd pick up my version of Gold (I mean, battery-issues besides, as far as I know it hasn't run out just yet...), and let HG stand for a new Johto. In this regard, HGSS failed.

Besides that, it would seem that some believe that you can't like gen II without somehow bashing gen III. It would seem that many is eager to criticize gen II, yet when you see some criticism of gen III, you don't really have to look to far for anyone to discuss it. The fans most certainly don't hate gen III, nor do I.

 

[Riku]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

I can't speak for the majority of gen 3 haters, but from personal opinion, and perhaps the majority of gen 3 haters, it isn't Gen 3 I hate, it's Hoenn I hate.

 

[Duckgon Z]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

You act as if it's impossible for old fans to like new pokemon, which is a blatant lie.

I should have worded that better then, didn't mean it like that.

What I meant was that people were going to stop watching/playing Pokemon games, so it didn't really matter that they were rebooting the franchise basically.

 

[Jukain]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

Which is why I wanted to tell the powers that be that it is almost useless to market pokemon to us, but I remembered that the kids still eat it up, and they outnumber us many times over.

EDIT: I see what you mean. If anyone else posted that, I would have accused them of saying that old players don't like new pokemon. It's not that we don't, there are still some of us that do, but the majority that whine over everything make it hard for the rest of us.

 

[TM2-Megatron]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

I was a bit iffy on Gen III when I first got Ruby, but I played through it and found it was still a pretty fun game.

The Kanto Remakes and Emerald, though; those are what truly made Gen III fun to play, and much less clunky as well. In particular, they featured enhancements to the PC Storage system that made Ruby and Sapphire seem ancient by comparison... the "Move Items" option, in addition to the ability to move Pokemon between boxes en masse, as opposed to one at a time. These games also used much better fonts in the game's menu and dialogue screens than R/S... they were both smaller (allowing more to fit), and easier to read.

 

[MAGNEDETH]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

I can't speak for the majority of gen 3 haters, but from personal opinion, and perhaps the majority of gen 3 haters, it isn't Gen 3 I hate, it's Hoenn I hate.

yes, i agree with this. i dont think Hoenn was a good region at all. too much surfing, not enough trainers, and some questionable Pokemon placement. exploring Hoenn was actually an entertaining experience...until you got to Lillycove. after that, its all water. add to that, thanks to Mr. Briny, you SKIP routes! if i can train in the water on the East end, why do i want to do it on the west end?

Gen III brought a ton of excellent variables to the games, and thats very important; natures, proper EVs and IVs, better held items, etc. but Hoenn was more like a "lets try this" and some stuff worked, and some stuff didnt. i do agree that Gen IV is almost like a "Gen III+" but there-in lies the explanation, its a better version of Gen III.

 

[TM2-Megatron]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

yes, i agree with this. i dont think Hoenn was a good region at all. too much surfing, not enough trainers, and some questionable Pokemon placement. exploring Hoenn was actually an entertaining experience...until you got to Lillycove. after that, its all water. add to that, thanks to Mr. Briny, you SKIP routes! if i can train in the water on the East end, why do i want to do it on the west end?

Gen III brought a ton of excellent variables to the games, and thats very important; natures, proper EVs and IVs, better held items, etc. but Hoenn was more like a "lets try this" and some stuff worked, and some stuff didnt. i do agree that Gen IV is almost like a "Gen III+" but there-in lies the explanation, its a better version of Gen III.

Funny you mention the water; this was recently being discussed in another thread.

Complain about the water routes all you like... personally, I thought they were a good part of the game. The water routes gave you more to explore... there were little islands along the way with items, places where you could dive to explore undersea caverns... and if you hurried along them the first time without doing that stuff, you could go back after the Elite 4 for something extra to do.

 

[Falconwing]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

I liked Hoenn (even the water routes)

I liked the pokemon

I liked the plot

It wasn't my favorite generation, but it wasn't bad. To me, when I first saw it, it was a visual work of art.

 

[Jukain]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

I know I don't use it often myself, but there is a magical item that could prove helpful. It's called Max Repel, or any lesser Repel if you can't get access to it.

 

[Freya]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

I do not agree with this. Gen III almost killed my interest in Pokemon until just recently when I decided to pick up Platinum for old times sake. Gen III was just so bland with their blatant copies of Gen I pokemon (Beautyfly? Really?) and I'm not ashamed to admit that I was severely sour about not being able to transfer my Gen I and II Pokemon over. Also Hoenn really (for me at least) lacked the soul that Kanto and Johto had.

Now, I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, but I'm not quite understanding your point of view...Yes, Beautifly is very similar to Butterfree, but how does one Pokemon make the rest "blatant copies?" The only other Pokemon I can think of that have similarities to previous Pokemon are Minun and Plusle, but what about the rest? I personally found most Gen III Pokemon to be the most unique in the series. And what on earth do you mean by "soul?" With actual weather and beautiful scenery, I can't see how Kanto and Johto beat Hoenn in the "soul" category.

 

[icepick]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

Yeah I'm not gonna lie, I am not super engaged in the pokemon fan world, but the few pathetic arguments I've heard against generation 3 (and generation 4 as well) amount to "Generation 2 was the best EVAAAAAR!". There is absolutely no reason or sense behind what they say. Just blind stick-in-the-mudness. If you ask them why they say what they do they either don't reply or answer with more blind hatred.

It's not just pokemon though. You find the same whiners after every truly loved game. Halo. Sonic. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

<grump> Here's what I have to say to all of you. The game you refuse to get over still exits!! If you can't move on with the rest of the world to try new things, go play gen 2 and golden eye and original Halo for the rest of your life. No one misses you... </grump>

 

[The Hoenn Kid]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

Generation III was my first and is my favourite generation. Hoenn was an great region and I didn't mind the water routes one bit when I first played it and never used Max Repels. I also really enjoyed the contests and I wish it went back to having Contest halls all over the region rather than in one place like in Generation IV.

 

[Riku]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

I also really enjoyed the contests and I wish it went back to having Contest halls all over the region rather than in one place like in Generation IV.

This I agree with. I would also like the contest structure to be more like the anime what with appeal combinations and stuff like that, as well as battling with style in mind, I'd also want it complete with Grand Festival as well.

 

[Fig]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

And if you want to play an uninspired game set in a boring world with vilains who make absolutely no sense, go play Final Fantasy VIII, and no one will miss you either.

My main criticisms of Hoenn (not Gen III as a whole) are as follow:

1. Lack of things to do after the Elite Four.
Yes, Kanto was no better. The difference is, back when they made the Kanto game, the concept of post-Elite Four things to do just didn't exist. On the other hand, by the time of Hoenn, Johto had introduced the idea of things to do after the Elite Four. Failing to keep that idea and build on it was a major failure of Hoenn, and one that was only fixed in a very patchwork way with the Battle Frontier of Emerald. (It's also one of the biggest strengths of DPPt - you have a lot to do post Elite Four in those games)

2. The vilains.
Yes, the concept of two rival teams was fun and interesting. Except, you know, the part where these two teams were the underpant gnomes of pokemon evil teams. Except worse, because instead of just Phase 1 of the plan having no relation with Phase 3 like the underpant Gnomes, Phase 1 of their plan ("Create a massive flood/Create a massive drought") actively armed phase 3 ("Life profit!"). No, you fucking dimwits, life does not profit from massive droughts and/or floods. The Rockets, underwhelmign as they were (particularly in GSC) at least made sense. And of course, Team Galactic showed us that GameFreak CAN do a good world-destroying team, whose goal and plans are clear logical (even if they're monstrous).

The water routes were also pretty aggravating, but the above two are the main reason why I feel no nostalgia toward RSE. They were an interesting experiment, and set the stage for many of the great steps forward of Gen IV which is by far the best pokemon generation to date, but not one I'm interested in remakes of.

(Of course, it's entirely possible a remake could be "done right", for example by toning down and improving the Aqua/Magma plans and adding large new areas to explore post-Battle Frontier.)

 

[The Outrage]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

I always hear people complaining about backtracking, but that's been in every generation. At least I knew where I was going in Gen III. On my original play through Gold version I wound up at Mahogany town two cities early because there were no obstacles keeping me from going there in the first place.

Also as cool as the underwater was in Gen III, swimming there needs to be faster.

 

[Riku]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

I always hear people complaining about backtracking, but that's been in every generation. At least I knew where I was going in Gen III. On my original play through Gold version I wound up at Mahogany town two cities early because there were no obstacles keeping me from going there in the first place.

I did this in SS, I beat Pryce before I beat Chuck or Jasmine.

 

[Cena]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

I want to like Gen III, I really do. I tried picking up Emerald again a few days ago, having never really started it, but no. It just doesn't hold my interest. Gen III was the first gen in Pokemon where I didn't really give a shit. Even when I played through Sapphire, it wasn't interesting to me. It's not bashing because of popular opinion, it's bashing because it wasn't interesting.

 

[Fig]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

At least I knew where I was going in Gen III. On my original play through Gold version I wound up at Mahogany town two cities early because there were no obstacles keeping me from going there in the first place.

One of the things I liked about early Gens is how there was a point in the game where you could basically tackle the gym in any number of possible orders, instead of being railroaded from one gym to the next in a most boring way.

I remember going (among other variants) Erika->Sabrina->Koga->Blaine, Erika->Koga->Sabrina->Blaine, and in one FRLG game Erika->Koga->Blaine->Sabrina.