Retconning Pokémon

[Zeta]

If you want to trade Pokemon across language barriers, you can use the PokeDex numbers to negotiate. Or at least that's how it's personally been useful to me. The numbers essentially work as a Pokemon's "true name" much in the same way latin names work for animals - if you know the numbering system of another language - which is usually one of the first things you learn - than you can use that to indicate Pokemon despite not knowing foreign names. That works in universe and outside.

 

[Zexy]

1) They should retcon the Nidorans. Volbeat/Illumise can be remedied with a pre-evo! Volbeat's the male evo, Illumise's the female evo!
2) Give Combee a male evo! NOW!
3) Change some thing that doesn't make sense! Male Glalie, Female Gardevoir! After all, Pokemon is for kids, they should not care about Gen V compatibility that much!
4) Remove the Incenses! They didn't make any sense right off the beginning!
5) Pokemon evolving via trade is a huge issue. I can see they want us to trade, but they have used version-exclusive Pokemon (and the newly-developed Key System) as a way to promote trading. Kids realizing that they can't evolve their favourite Pokemon isn't nice, either, so I vote for all trade evos to be replaced!
6) The Eevee thing... It has 8 possible evos, out of which we got 3 methods of evolution and quite possibly a fourth soon. I can see that lots of methods can be good, but when we are talking about 8 possible evos, it's a bit weird... Sun, Moon and Leaf Stones for Espeon, Umberon and Leafeon is a possibility, but I doubt they would retcon the evos of the most famous evo family in the franchise...

However, the best we can get is 4 (if they are clever enough) and/or 2, since it's the first time since Gen 4 we get cross-gen oves.

 

[Proxima Centauri B]

They're not gonna get rid of trade evos. Trading is one of the things the game is built around, it may be a bit hard for some people to evolve their Pokemon because of, it but trade-evolving Pokemon are likely here to stay.

The Nidoran thing bugs me, I think that should be tweaked so Nidoking/Nidoqueen can breed. I dont really see the point of that anyway, other than that, I see nothing that I really think needs retconning for now.

 

[Brisk Sunrise]

3) Change some thing that doesn't make sense! Male Glalie, Female Gardevoir! After all, Pokemon is for kids, they should not care about Gen V compatibility that much!

I fail to see how it doesn't make any sense at all. One of the absolute worst possible things that they could do is to go back and retcon certain Pokemon as only being one gender. That is NOT something that they should do, and what doesn't make sense is why so many people are generally hung up on that. Though by now, this is clear that such a thing is quite a pet peeve to me.

I also don't really see why that is much of an issue for kids. ._.


The only thing I can really agree on is that yes, the separation of Nidoran seems a bit awkward after all this time. Though I doubt they could just outright change that.

 

[Infinity Mk-II]

Nidoran lines being separated is pretty much unremediable by now: Even if you just merge the first pokémon, they are so drastically different they're effectively rather than a mere gender difference counterpart Pokémon to each other more similar to Miltank/Tauros. If there'd be a way to have them both share the same dex number while still being entirely different pokémon somehow, that'd probably be the best idea. But as it stands, yeah.
Nidorina and Nidoqueen should be able to breed with Nidorino and Nidoking, though.

Combee shows possibly the closest the series could do to a good display of how insects with queens live. So changing that would make no sense.

I'm not even going to take the Gardevoir suggestions seriously. It's a vaguely humanoid ghostly guardian thing. You could say it's feminine in appearance, but that's precisely because of it having a gentle, delicate and peaceful appearance to fit its spiritual theme.
It's not the busty dressed thing some fanart makes it look like. It's an ethereal being. Comparing it to a genderless angel would be more appropiate.


Also I'm pretty sure Azurill's gender ratio has to be a typo. And male Torchic having a pixel off on their backsprites. But again one causes compatibility problems and the other is now part of the design, so no changing those.

There's how Venomoth and Butterfree images probably once having been swapped around by accident, but unless you rewrite history that stays like that now too.



A probably good one though would be changing Masquerain's type to Bug/Water. (And give it levitate if you want it to fly so much... or have it learn flying moves)
I get the water striders change into flying creatures, but they're still living in water ecosystems. They can swim (Masquerain has flippers!). And overall it's a shame that a pokémon with a potentially awesome type combination and good design loses it in favor to a common and useless one for little reason.

 

[Meophist]

1:1 gender ratio for starter Pokémon please. They can adjust the data for existing Pokémon so that their gender doesn't change upon transferring.

 

[Tjd78]

Honestly, people can argue about it all day long for all I care but at the end of the day gardevoir doesn't make any sense. I have nothing wrong with there being a feminine pokemon that is both genders, but the problem is that gallade exists. Why make a fully male coumterpart if the already existing feminine one is both genders? It's obvious that somebody found it strange, so gallade was added. The same can be said about glalie and frosslass, except that they are less humanoid.

On the topic of Mr. Mime, there are a few things to point out: 1. Mr. Mimes original japanese name is Barierd, and has no mention of gender at all.

And 2. Mr. Mime is a generation 1 pokemon meaning it was created before genders were implicated so you can't really blame them for it's masculine name.

Two more things, sure it can be argued that some pokemon like bisharp are more masculine but unlike gardevoir, it doesn't already have a gender exclusive counterpart.

Oh and they should fix Nidoqueen.

 

[Infinity Mk-II]

Honestly, people can argue about it all day long for all I care but at the end of the day gardevoir doesn't make any sense.

You can't say that people can argue about two positions... and conclude that "at the end of the day" one is right like that.

I just gave a rationalization on how, to my criteria, Gardevoir makes perfect sense:

it's feminine in appearance, but that's precisely because of it having a gentle, delicate and peaceful appearance to fit its spiritual theme.

It wouldn't make much sense to have a creature that's so linked to emotions be tough-looking, would it? It's all really people's perception of delicate as feminine.
And in this case, Gardevoir is delicate because of its concept for feelings and empathy. (Someone delicate is who feels more intensely)

But in any case, this is getting way too offtopic at this point, so I'm done with it. The whole thing basically sums up in "they made Gallade male only because someone wanted and they kept Gardevoir both because someone wanted" anyways, so it's pointless to argue.


Anyways, not exactly a pokémon, but I'd agree on changing the national Pokédex. They used to have that as the original plans (Gen II's "New Pokédex"), but probably in part of the Gen III remakes idea and in part of how popular the old pokédex still was (as it got really popularized back in the day) they kept it.

What I'd suggest isn't really changing the National Pokédex itself though, but rather change it's name and importance to something that says it is a "entire list of pokémon" ordering no more official than other orderings.

Basically, making alternative "national pokédexes". Although I'm not sure of the success these would have beyond the games themselves, as many sites (including official ones) probably would opt to if not just use the existing numbering still have it prominent.
(And please have these alternate pokédex modes integrated from the start)


I'd also appreciate if some Water-type pokémon didn't learn Ice Beam. Even if it must lose its status as a TM for that to be so.
Obvious water types that are related to cold waters are fine even if lacking Ice typing, and so are starters. But things that don't have anything to do with cold like Simipour, or things for which cold would be even detrimental like Quagsire, really have no business learning such a powerful Ice move.

 

[Zeta]

Obvious water types that are related to cold waters are fine even if lacking Ice typing, and so are starters. But things that don't have anything to do with cold like Simipour, or things for which cold would be even detrimental like Quagsire, really have no business learning such a powerful Ice move.

Personally I'd rather have it go the other way - give Pure Ice-types access to a bevy of Water-type moves. If Water-types just have to adjust their internal temperature to use Ice Beam, Ice-types should be able to use Water Pulse and Surf, too. Maybe make an opposite version of Scald for just this purpose - Ice-Water. Strong special Water-type attack that may Freeze.

 

[KyseL]

Just passed by (I'm new here), but all this Gardevoir discussion doesn't even make sense. I mean, look at it's freakin' Japanese name, for Arceus sake! It's freakin' Sirknight (サーナイト). Yeah, SIR-knight. Then, what actually doesn't make any sense here is the fact that there are actually Female Gardevoirs.

 

[Jungleluke]

What about no retcons whatsoever? Retcons are mostly shitty and not needed. The word 'retcon' is a curse on itself already.

(Well, except for the Nidorina/Nidoqueen one, they MUST be able to breed IMO)

 

[Owain]

What about no retcons whatsoever? Retcons are mostly shitty and not needed. The word 'retcon' is a curse on itself already.

(Well, except for the Nidorina/Nidoqueen one, they MUST be able to breed IMO)

People have different oppinions on retcons, yes, there have been many a game series that retcons some stuff in new games and the fans rage, however, minor ones wouldn't really cause rage, would they?

And that's the problem with damning retcons and then saying that, in your oppinion, this particular one is needed, there isn't really a retcon that would be universally accepted as a need, so we can't be sure if it's good until it happens.

 

[Jungleluke]

What about no retcons whatsoever? Retcons are mostly shitty and not needed. The word 'retcon' is a curse on itself already.

(Well, except for the Nidorina/Nidoqueen one, they MUST be able to breed IMO)

People have different oppinions on retcons, yes, there have been many a game series that retcons some stuff in new games and the fans rage, however, minor ones wouldn't really cause rage, would they?

And that's the problem with damning retcons and then saying that, in your oppinion, this particular one is needed, there isn't really a retcon that would be universally accepted as a need, so we can't be sure if it's good until it happens.

Some make sense, some don't. The Nidoqueen-issue doesn't really make sense, even not in a biological perspective. And, yes, ofcourse that comment of mine you quoted is my opinion.

 

[Envoy]

About the Gardevoir discussion, how about we go a different route? What if Krilia (and Snorunt) that are exposed to a Dawn Stone evolve into Gallade (and Froslass) regardless of gender. This makes it possible to have female Gallade (and male Froslass) which counterbalances the male Gardevoir (and female Glalie.) Does it completely defeat the point of having Gallade be male-only? Yes, but that was a stupid design choice anyway, so who cares? This way, we solve the problem in one fell swoop and don't actually have any cross-generational issues.

As for things I'd like retconned:

-Starters should all have the same BST. Why the hell should Meganium (who already starts five miles behind the other Johto Starters) have a lower BST than Typhlosion? What makes Swampert so special that he gets the highest BST of every Starter ever?

-Water type Pokemon should be unable to learn Ice type moves. Transferring a Water type with Ice moves from Gen V would be akin to transferring a Pokemon with an HM move. It's not allowed, so you have to erase it before the transfer. This has the triple benefit of nerfing Water types, buffing Ice types, and buffing Grass types.

-Alternatively, Grass types should retroactively be able to learn Earth Power to deal with their weaknesses, while Ice types should be allowed to learn Water type moves.

-Starter Pokemon and Eevee should have a 1:1 gender ratio. I'm not buying any of these 'but having more males makes the females more special' bullcrap. If you want a female, you're gonna soft reset for a female. All this change would do is expedite that process. As for breeding, males can breed with Ditto for infinite Starters (and Eevee) regardless while females would still need someone in their same Egg group to produce an egg in the first place (mama Eevee can't breed with a Caterpie as far as I know) or breed with Ditto as well. It's a pointless restriction and I want it gone.

-Nidorina/Queen should be able to breed. Like, really, why the hell can't it?

That's all I got for now. I'm sure there's more I haven't thought of though.

 

[Infinity Mk-II]

About the Gardevoir discussion, how about we go a different route? What if Krilia (and Snorunt) that are exposed to a Dawn Stone evolve into Gallade (and Froslass) regardless of gender.

I was going to half-jokingly suggest that but I got tired out of the discussion in the end. Ultimately, my position is that the way it already is is fine enough, so there's no need to retcon. But if it were, that'd be my prefference too.
Although given the Yuki-onna was a woman that died in the mountains after being mistreated by her husband and then went on to murder men who cheated on their wives, it makes sense it's female.
Actually... what IS Gallade? Everything would probably be fine I knew there is some good reason for him to be male-only, like an actual myth behind him or something. Something that isn't "Gardevoir is too girly".

But I digress. In any case, this'd be the better option anyways.

-Starters should all have the same BST. Why the hell should Meganium (who already starts five miles behind the other Johto Starters) have a lower BST than Typhlosion? What makes Swampert so special that he gets the highest BST of every Starter ever?

BST changes should happen and all starters be treated equally, yeah. Otherwise it kind of defeats their point.
Although it's better movesets and other things like abilities and typing what really play a bigger factor in their balance than just raw stats...

But one thing doesn't discard another; give equal stats (to emphatize they are, well, at least trios) AND balance their movesets.

(I guess they could take the chance to differenciate Typlosion and Charizard in stats too)

-Water type Pokemon should be unable to learn Ice type moves. Transferring a Water type with Ice moves from Gen V would be akin to transferring a Pokemon with an HM move. It's not allowed, so you have to erase it before the transfer. This has the triple benefit of nerfing Water types, buffing Ice types, and buffing Grass types.

As much as I'd like Water pokémon to not have so many Ice moves and that it'd really be the key to further balancing everything... I'd think that's a little bit excessive. I'd welcome smaller restrictions though. From simply making some moves more of a bother to have to purging out entire movepools, to adding other hinderances.

-Alternatively, Grass types should retroactively be able to learn Earth Power to deal with their weaknesses, while Ice types should be allowed to learn Water type moves.

This is a probably better solution. Grass types in general really, REALLY need more coverage: Ground and Rock moves in general should be handed out like candy. A ton of movepools really need improved.
In particular, it wouldn't be farfetched even to give a common offensive Fire move to Grass to use in the sun either.

Ice types really would need a good niché. Unfortunately just learning Water moves doesn't cut it (although they also should, it's only fair the water-ice thing goes both ways), they need even better reasons to be used.

Exclusive reliable freezing, neutrality to water, bonuses in hail...



While I'm at it, make Stealth Rocks go away on their own. Maybe you can layer them so each layer wears off per hit or something.

 

[Zeta]

The easiest method to buff Ice-types (aside from the aforementioned Ice Water move) would probably indeed just be giving them significant buffs during Hail.

 

[Dex]

I also would like to see Ice types get a small improvement to better cover their weaknesses. An increased amount of available water moves would help, since there is no logical type* for ice to resist to balance things out a bit. I'd love for it to be a more viable, solid option.

*note: the fact that ice resists nothing but itself is one of the bigger problems. It might not be so vital that it be able to learn water moves if it resisted some other types, but nothing really makes sense. Maybe something nonphysical like psychic or ghost (a similar concept to the high special defense).

 

[Envoy]

Actually... what IS Gallade? Everything would probably be fine I knew there is some good reason for him to be male-only, like an actual myth behind him or something. Something that isn't "Gardevoir is too girly".

I think he's supposed to represent your quintessential knight in shining armor, but don't quote me on that.

As much as I'd like Water pokémon to not have so many Ice moves and that it'd really be the key to further balancing everything... I'd think that's a little bit excessive. I'd welcome smaller restrictions though. From simply making some moves more of a bother to have to purging out entire movepools, to adding other hinderances.

How about just the big guns then? Ice Beam/Punch, and Blizzard. I doubt many Water types would want to get stuck using things like Frost Breath and Icy Wind anyway.

In particular, it wouldn't be farfetched even to give a common offensive Fire move to Grass to use in the sun either.

I agree.

Ice types really would need a good niché. Unfortunately just learning Water moves doesn't cut it (although they also should, it's only fair the water-ice thing goes both ways), they need even better reasons to be used.

Exclusive reliable freezing, neutrality to water, bonuses in hail...

Bonuses to Hail in the same style as the Sandstorm bonuses are likely, but I don't think the type chart is gonna get another overhaul (not that it doesn't need it, I just don't think it's gonna get it.)

The problem with freezing moves is that it is too powerful to be made reliable. Freezing effectively K.O's any Pokemon without Fire attacks. Nerfing it would just make it Sleep under a different name though, so I don't know how I would go about fixing that problem. :S

While I'm at it, make Stealth Rocks go away on their own. Maybe you can layer them so each layer wears off per hit or something.

This, I'm not so sure about. Maybe instead of nerfing SR, we could add similar hazards of different types. Increasing the variety is a pretty good way of decreasing SR use.

 

[Infinity Mk-II]

As much as I'd like Water pokémon to not have so many Ice moves and that it'd really be the key to further balancing everything... I'd think that's a little bit excessive. I'd welcome smaller restrictions though. From simply making some moves more of a bother to have to purging out entire movepools, to adding other hinderances.

How about just the big guns then? Ice Beam/Punch, and Blizzard. I doubt many Water types would want to get stuck using things like Frost Breath and Icy Wind anyway.

The big guns are the main problem, really. I have tried several times to explain just how Ice Beam has essentially always been one of the single most important moves in the entire game. Punch and Blizzard are also important ones, although Blizzard is really "Ice Beam up to eleven" and Ice Punch is probably meant to be more of a coverage option... but they both really could have a much limited distribution as well.

Ice Beam still needs the highest restriction anyways. Not "ice-type exclusive 100%", some pokémon do have reasons to learn Ice beam, like Empoleon or of course Suicune... but it still really needs a much higher restriction because as it stands almost everything learns it.

In general, because Ice is such a great offensive type, having Ice coverage should be more of a priviledge, and more so powerful moves such as these.
Specially Ice Beam.

The problem with freezing moves is that it is too powerful to be made reliable. Freezing effectively K.O's any Pokemon without Fire attacks. Nerfing it would just make it Sleep under a different name though, so I don't know how I would go about fixing that problem. :S

Well, of course it should be balanced. Maybe a 50-60% Freeze status move not unlike Supersonic restricted to a few key pokémon (slow ones like Abomasnow), or a two-turn charging move.
But it would turn from something not that different than a critical hit to something to at least be a bit more wary of. Freeze immunity helps too.

This, I'm not so sure about. Maybe instead of nerfing SR, we could add similar hazards of different types. Increasing the variety is a pretty good way of decreasing SR use.

Given just the extreme impact Stealth Rock has in the game, I'm not sure if more variants wouldn't worsen the problem.
Probably not as bad of a nerf as I suggested, but I believe the move really needs some kind of nerf as it is. Even if it is simply more ways of removing the hazards... I could see Gravity ending SR for instance.

Defog could be buffed to remove entry hazards in the whole field too. Right now it is a pointless move that can only benefit the opponent. At least it affecting the entire field fixes that.

 

[Super Charizard]

Well I'm going to say that I don't really want any retcons, aside from the Nidoqueen breeding with Nidoking thing...seriously that just feels like a mistake.

But I would like to say something to those who said changing move availability, like restricting ice moves from water types, would cause backwards compatibility issues: No it would not, the pokemon games can have pokemon in them with moves they can't learn, that's how nintendo can give out event pokemon with special moves, and that’s how people can hack pokemon with any moves they want, so even if they made it so water types couldn't learn ice moves anymore one with ice moves could still be transferred forward with no problems.