Criticisms of ORAS: Do you agree? (Please see first post)

[Zeb]

So I've seen an image floating around the web for a few months now, I'm not sure who made it but it's a list of criticisms about the ORAS games which I thought would be interesting to discuss.

I'm NOT intending this thread as a general hate thread despite the image being a list of "problems" people have had with ORAS, so please don't turn it into that. I'm interested to see whether BMGf members mostly agree or disagree with the list. (Of course do feel free to agree and/or disagree with the points in the image and posts made by others, but don't be an ass about the way you do it is what I'm meaning.)

I'll include a spoiler tag of the image here. If for whatever reason it ends up too small for you to read, then you can click this http://i.imgur.com/MCbqZOi.png to see it full screen.

Spoiler

 

[Hector]

Reading this list, I can definitely say that I either agree with most of these or definitely see why people may have been unhappy with that particular aspect. The one I would probably object to would be the pointlessness of the DexNav. Early game it's incredibly useful (especially before you get access to breeding) and for someone who enjoys playing through the main game with mons they catch it was quite helpful.

Only thing the list missed is too much water.

 

[Sword Master]

Mostly agree with the list but with all the steps it made forward (soaring in the sky) made up for problems but overall it did feel rushed which is becoming the norm lately.

 

[Osprey]

Oh boy. That's a lot of stuff, but I'll bite.

Spoiler

- Battle Frontier, character customization, and frame rate improvement all would've been fine additions, but personally, I don't think they made or broke the game. Frame rate issues can be averted by keeping the 3D off... and honestly, the 3D isn't very good in both XY or ORAS compared to other games I've played.

- It's a shame that there wasn't any GBA Sounds, but I think the game managed to hit me with the nostalgia hammer in plenty of other ways (such as that awesome intro).

- Keeping the overworld 3D-free isn't surprising, considering the amount of content the game and system have to handle, plus the fact that the 3D isn't even that good in battles. I keep the feature off, so it's a non-issue.

- I'll agree that contests have been simplified, but previously, they were pretty much RNG luck games, especially when it comes to the "appeal" part of the contests. One or the other.

- The game seems casualized because there are so many newer features to take advantage of, along with the fact that a lot of the ones who have played the originals are a lot more experienced with the games overall. As far as I'm concerned, features like Amie, Super Training, the Exp. Share, and Megavolution are all optional and can be avoided if the player so chooses.

- Gym Leader matches should have been included, I won't disagree with that one.

- Sky Pillar's Mach Bike puzzle ticked me off as a kid. While it did add a sense of accomplishment when you finally reached Rayquaza, I think Zinnia's battle theme, flying on the back of a huge dragon, and fighting Deoxys in the stratosphere was a fair exchange for a frustrating puzzle. (Besides, who'd want to do a puzzle like that with the Circle Pad? Yeesh...)

- I don't like what they did to Granite Cave, agreed.

- I actually like what they did to the Safari Zone. It's not "pointless"; I go into those places to catch rare Pokemon, and I can still do that. The difference is that I don't have to deal with stupid things like entrance fees, step limits, and fleeing Pokemon. In fact, the absence of those things made the Safari Zone more appealing to me.

- Mirage Tower was... okay. Uh... I don't really remember anything about it other than getting a fossil from there. I can live without it to be honest. I won't disagree that I miss having a minigame for Pokeblocks, but I couldn't care less about the Game Corner. I never liked that place anyways, I could never get the hang of the minigames.

- Agreed on the whole thing about Pokemarts, HM's and the Trick House. Bah.

- Auto-run is something that I've wished every game since HGSS would have, but it never appears. I'm not too bothered by this. And wait... since when did XY have auto-run? If that refers to the skates, I prefer having normal, auto-run-free shoes over skates.

- The most about the Delta Episode that was spoiled for me was its existence, and that motivated me to finish the main game. Anyone who completely spoiled everything about it for themselves have only themselves to blame.

- Agreed about the compatibility issue, that has nothing going for it.

- I think some Pokemon are just meant to be overpowered, and Megamence is no exception. ... Wait, no mention of Magaquaza, a Pokemon so broken that a new tier was developed just for it? Really?

- I never cared about cosplay Pikachu, probably by virtue of it being yet ANOTHER special-snowflake Pikachu. So what if it isn't compatible with XY, I'd chuck its Pokeball into the sea for all I care...

- At least more trainers can use Megavolution this time around. Let's see... the PC, Steven, rival, Wally, all of the Elite Four, Lisia, Zinnia, Archie, Maxie, and a few of the admins. That's about twelve. XY had the PC, rival, Lysandre, and Diantha. Four. So they almost tripled the amount of trainers with Megavolution in ORAS. Besides, it's not supposed to be a common power, so of course not every other trainer will be spamming it...

- Physical bonus? Why should a good game need extra incentive? I, for one, wanted the game because I wanted to PLAY the game, not to get some fancy gadget that will probably not work for any other game. New-Gen games like XY, BW, DP, etc, don't get bundled with special prizes either, and they still seem to do fine.

- DexNav, as far as I'm concerned, is one of the best features added. Sure, it's grindy if you want a perfect Pokemon, but it offers a lot of opportunities to make up for that (such as unusual moves, abilites, and items) and allows you to know what you're about to fight so it's not such a guessing game. Especially helpful if you're hunting for items.

- Wild Pokemon variety is pretty much the same as the originals. It's always been poor, and seems especially bad since we've been pretty spoiled by variety as of late. This problem gets eliminated after you beat/catch the box mascot, since a huge variety of Pokemon suddenly appear all over the place.

- So these remakes didn't get their own Sevii Islands. Shame. At least they got SOMETHING, a post-story plus everything a competitive trainer could want in one place (Battle Resort).

- Teams have always been pretty easy to beat down. Take a look at Team Rocket in HGSS; they're limited mostly to Rattata and Poison-types, and their Pokemon are usually at least 4 levels below the local road trainers. Unvaried and weak. Magma and Aqua are kinda just following the trend.

- Yeah, no Mega Flygon is unforgivable.

 

[WallflowerCanyon]

I'm kinda 50/50 on that list. Overall, I really liked the games for what they are, but I do agree that "more" could have been done. Same with X/Y, but that's for another topic.

- While it would have been nice to have character customization in every future game from now on, it's something that we could all survive without.

- The thing about being "spoiled" about the Delta Episode is absurd. Like what BlackOsprey said, they only have themselves to blame. IIRC, the only thing we got spoiled on was the existence of Rayquaza, Deoxys, and Zinnia. We did NOT get spoiled out in the open on their specific roles in the games. The only way for you to get completely and utterly spoiled is by opening up the little spoiler tags that Serebii so kindly puts when they post new info regarding a new main series game. You folks made the choice to follow the CoroCoro leaks and everything else that followed, only YOU can prevent forest fires have the power to turn your computer on and browse the Interwebs.

- The Battle Frontier complaints I can understand, but at the same time I never really cared.

 

[DasManiac]

I agree with most of these but some of these complaints are silly. Things like the PokeBlock blender were removed because they were terrible ideas in the first place and the complaint about contests is silly as well. Contests were always like that. I absolutely agree though that it is unacceptable that Contests can't be played online. There's no excuse for that one. The frame rate issue has nothing to do with Game Freak. Pokemon is very advanced for the 3DS and it's not their fault it can't handle 3D plus those graphics. These people need to look at Mario Kart 7's graphics and then they'll understand why Pokemon isn't in full 3D.

I agree on the majority of the other stuff though. I only partially agree on the Safari Zone though. I like the lack of the step counter but everything else is a tremendous step backwards. ORAS was the first time there had been a Safari Zone since HGSS. Game Freak should have massively expanded it and done something new with it. The lack of a major post game was ridiculous but expected. Nintendo very clearly rushed Game Freak to get these games out. They had less than one year to develop these games.

I totally agree with Cosplay Pikachu. Not sure what the point of it was. It can't be transferred to other games meaning Contests aren't coming back (which is not expected as Game Freak loves removing content instead of adding it) and it can't even freaking evolve. On the subject of Mega Evolutions, I was very disappointed in them. Not only were they all revealed before hand but many of them were underwhelming. Audino needed a boost and while it received one, it didn't receive the one it needed. It's unfair because Beedrill got a massive boost. The lack of customization was also pretty pathetic. At the very least there should have been an option for skin tones.

Some of the other that were mentioned was the poor Pokemon distribution which is again unacceptable at this point. There are 721 Pokemon and there is no excuse for not expanding Hoenn's dex by at least 100. The lack of a patch for XY represents a very bleak future for the series. It's insulting and downright despicable to not patch XY. All the removed features from this game has me very disinterested in any future games in the series. I'm not sure I'll continue getting Pokemon. No other developer removes key features like Game Freak does. I'm not sure what future entries in the series are going to be like.

 

[zoroarctic]

I find the complaints about the Delta Episode spoilers ridiculous. You people were the ones scouring the internet trying to find every possible leak, so you people have only yourselves to blame.

 

[EvilChameleon]

I loved Hoenn. I was excited to play Hoenn again with updated graphics. I enjoyed playing Hoenn again with updated graphics.

I still enjoyed X and Y more.

 

[~ Blazing White Yang]

I agree with a good deal of the list, but there are a few things I have to disagree on.

• Contests and Berry Blending being casualized isn't a big deal to me because it was just a little side-show to begin with.
• I'm glad that Sky Pillar's Mach Bike challenge was removed. That's one situation where I can honestly say the game was a bit too hard, and more of an annoyance than anything. Its not the same type of challenge as higher level AI with better strategy. Its a high speed puzzle where you need almost perfect coordination, and knowledge of the layout in advance. Even Emerald removed it during the story to ensure that players could actually reach Rayquaza.
• I can't say I care about seeing people's secret base team. I actualy sort of prefer not knowing who my opponents are going to use in battle...And if I really want to, they are featured on the Global Link site.

One thing that definitely sticks out to me though is the part about Team Magma & Aqua's teams. I strongly agree with that one, but its one that I rarely see being spoken of. I was just thinking the other day about what Pokemon Maxie/Archie would use from the national Pokedex, especially after finding that Magma and Aqua do have a little bit more variety in the recent "Double Crisis" card pack. I think there was some real missed potential.

Since Archie is all about the environment and habitats that Pokemon have lost over time, I'd have given them some Grass types and Water based Fossil Pokemon. Cradily, Armaldo, Kabutops, Lord Helix...You could even use Shelly's former work at Devon as an explanation of how a group of thugs got their hands on them. And then since Maxie is (or at least appears to be) a man of science, I could see him with Pokmeon like the ones found on Colress's "Techno" team. Like Klingklang, Magneton or Rotom. The list could go on with both teams.

 

[Esserise]

About 50/50 for me.

Spoiler

- They always laze about with Frontiers. ORAS copy/pasting the Battle Maison is really no different than HGSS copy/pasting Platinum's Frontier. These games just had the misfortune of being stuck with a lame Battle "Frontier" to copy/paste. Though in all seriousness, while I don't ever really bother with the Battle Facilities myself, from an outside perspective, I find it hard to believe that they didn't know how popular the original Frontier was. You would think that would be a good indication to include it. I'm going to blame Masuda's mobile phone mentality on this one. It really is a poison, that mindset.

- Eh. I was mad about this at first, and while I do still think that it was a step back, I can live with it. It's not the end of the world. But I would like for it to return in the future.

- I am indeed surprised that they haven't figured out how to work around this yet.

- Couldn't care less.

- I don't use the 3D effect ever, nor do I see the appeal. So I can't say this this is an issue for me.

- Eh. I still think they're a fun little time-waster, but then again, I liked the Musicals in BW so what do I know.

- ???

- So don't use the EXP. Share or Mega Evolutions. While I agree that difficulty modes should be a mainstay feature, I also think there is an element of "meeting them halfway" as far as the difficulty goes. The difficulty in Pokémon games is relative. It all depends on what you choose to use.

- I do agree with this. How Gym Leader matches have evaded a permanent inclusion status after all this time is beyond me.

- Yeah but the expositional cutscene was way more interesting. But then again, I have a storyline/mythology bias.

- Admittedly, that did bug me a bit.

- As did this, but I wouldn't have wanted them to stick to the original SZ mechanics either.

- Mirage Tower also didn't add that much to begin with. No big loss.

- I am actually happy about this. I like the new PokéBlock system way more. Always hated that damn Blending mini-game.

- We can't really blame them for leaving it out since it's due to a legal issue. And don't ever mention the Voltorb Flip to me.

- Yes, that was stupid. I have been a critic of the Center/Mart split since the map was first released. But at least the Marts look nice, I guess.

- This is true.

- Are there? I guess I didn't notice. Seems like an odd thing to nerf.

- We've had to hold B in order to run for so long now that, even when I play HGSS, my finger is pretty much glued to the button anyway out of habit.

- Not really their fault.

- Eh. The surprise wears off after the first time around, so, this isn't really that big of a deal to me.

- Yes, the lack of an XY patch was moronic.

- Can't comment. Haven't used Mega Salamence or Mega Audino.

- Well in fairness, so was the Spiky-Eared Pichu. These gimmick-mons are not totally new. Still stupid, but nothing new.

- Huh. I'd never even considered online Contests a possibility. Well I guess that would have been neat.

- Fair point. I'm actually not sure how I feel about this, to be honest.

- Couldn't care less. I just want the game, first and foremost.

- Ehhhhh. They still gave me plenty to do.

- I've always had a problem with the TM distribution in some form or another. They've never quite gotten it right, in my opinion. Not that that's a defense in their favor, but.

- Hell no, I love the DexNav. I actually like trying to catch everything now.

- This is probably one of my bigger complaints, yes.

- This is also true.

- True again, although of course the quintuplets have under-leveled Pokémon. About five seconds of thought should tell you why.

- Couldn't care less.

 

[~ Blazing White Yang]

^To be fair with HGSS...

Johto only ever had a Battle Tower, and they probably could've gotten away with including that by itself. For them to replace the single Battle Tower from Crystal with the updated one and 4 more facilities that weren't in the original Johto is at least giving us more than expected. And IIRC, part of why they did that was so the games would have a fully compatible multiplayer with Platinum. (Which I appreciated personally, since it was a great way of earning BP in either game.)

The ORAS copy/paste is sorta different, because they deliberately gave us less.

 

[skyradiant]

I disagree with pretty much everything listed except for the part about GameFreak spoiling the Delta Episode and all the Mega Evolutions. The former makes me glad I avoided ORAS news after Mirage Spots were revealed, since I was able to enjoy it pretty much unspoiled.

 

[jayrachi]

Nintendo has never been good at keeping small innovations in their series (such as Poke Marts within Pokemon Centers and auto-run) consistent. A great example is Legend of Zelda, where in Twilight Princess Link didn't consume a faerie if his health was already full, and he could run and swing his sword at the same time. But then in Skyward Sword, these small innovations were removed for no real reason. I don't know why Nintendo has such problems being consistent with the little things that improve the game, but that's always frustrated me about them. It makes no sense.

As far as the Battle Frontier and Mirage Tower, those were in Emerald, and I guess considering these were remaking Sapphire and Ruby, they decided including it was unnecessary. The game's easiness is not only for casual gamers that need an easier time. It also serves the hardcore audience in that it gets them through the storyline quickly so they can just start breeding and EV training and the like. It makes the main story just a segway into competitive battling. That's very unfortunate for people that want a challenging single-player game. I don't really care about competitive battling beyond the Battle Resort and Battle Institute for 100% completion, and I'm not a child that needs their hand held either.

 

[Zweilous]

I agree with most of that list, though I also will say that some of its points like the DexNav one being a bit petty. To me, that feature was a boon to the game as it allowed more control over the Pokemon you found and gave you access to HAs and egg moves that would otherwise be unavailable to you. So for me, I'm glad that they introduced that feature as it really benefited my playthrough.

Also, I'm going to be the oddball and say that I agree with their point about them spoiling all of the Megas and (partially, as it didn't spoil too much) the Delta Episode. Yeah it's true that you can avoid this news, but the thing is that news is still coming from Corocoro and the official Pokemon site, both of which are official news sources that are going to be reaching many fans around the world and will be posted on every fansite as a result, so whether or not people should ignore it doesn't necessarily remove the fact that they did widely and officially spoiled a lot of the game for those following either them or fansites like Serebii or Bulbapedia. So in this case, I do think it wasn't the best idea for GF/The Pokemon Company to have completely played their hand on the game as it took away from some of the surprises that they game could've had.

 

[Bolt Strike]

If the Hoenn Dex counts as part of poor Pokemon variety, then I have nothing to add. I agree with most if not all of this list.

Although even with the poor variety in the Hoenn Dex, a few of these issues still didn't need to exist. Magma and Aqua had plenty of Fire, Ground, and Water types to choose from, there's absolutely no reason why they can only use the Zubat, Poochyena, and Numel/Carvanha lines. Also, 470something Pokemon is a pretty low total in a 6th gen game, it should've been somewhere in the 500's.

But yeah, the game as a whole is pretty lacking, aside from the changes to the storyline and the new Megas, it feels either like a marginal improvement in some areas and a step backwards in others. Well below what many people were expecting out of this game.

 

[Lufenium]

I agree with most of this list. Some seem kind of petty/silly (like the framerate issues, and the Delta Episode being spoiled) but overall it's pretty spot on.

I'm puzzled as to why they put "physical incentive" up there. I assume they mean the PokeWalker from HG/SS and the Wireless adapter from FR/LG. I'd say the most likely reason for a physical add-on feature like that not returning is that it'd be pretty much impossible to ship physical items with digital copies of the game.

 

[Dieter]

Though there are several points I absolutely agree with, I also think some really just depend on personal preference

- I never did really anything with the BF in Emerald, or Platinum/HGSS for that matter, so I'm not really missing it. But I also think it would have been a nice addition, as it seems pretty popular, so I get it's absence is a disappointment to some
- Tbh, I didn't like trainer customisation too much in XY. Yes, it's a nice extra feature, but I think the way it was implemented in XY was lacking, so I wouldn't have enjoyed a copy/paste (really, all the good stuff isn't available till late game and if you play as the male PC you also have far less options)
- I wouldn't know about this, it isn't something I noticed/that bothered me
- Nor did I miss something like that. Never used it in HGSS either. This one really depends on personal preference
- From what I gather, most people have got the 3D effect turned off most/all of the time anyway, so no actual lost there either
- Mixed feelings about this one. I like how all Pokémon will eat all Pokéblock now (making any pokémon viable for Contests) but I also miss the blending game (except for the feel/level part, which was annoying) I like they made certain things easier, but I also miss a bit of challenge in the contests themselves
- Like you know what kinda Pokémon NPC's or online battlers will have. I seriously don't see the problem with this
- That's not my experience... Yes, the first few GL's were a bit easier, but I absolutely wasn't overleveled later on in the game (I did turn off the Exp Share though)
- Point taken. Especially considering they are in the AreaNav, so I wonder what's up with that. Cause neither the rival nor Wally are in there...
- Which I think is an upgrade. I never enjoyed the bike puzzle a lot, so I'm not missing it. I'm far more impressed by Sky Pillar's shiny new look
- Because that's such an incredible effort. In all games there are moments where you can/want/have to backtrack. It's really no big deal. Nor hard in this case, one simple trip down Cycling Road and a ferry ride to Dewford. Takes like a minute? I'll admit the fact you can't use any of em, correction don't have access to Sableye for your match with Brawly can be annoying, but there are so many other options it's not really an obstacle (nor is he very hard to beat)
- Again, mixed feelings. Though the Safari challenge is def different, it can also be extremely annoying at times. Tbh I also didn't really miss it in BW/XY, and the fact you can now chose what kinda pokéball you want to catch your safari pokémon in is a nice bonus. Nor do you have the annoying step counter which makes getting (hidden) items more annoying
- if Mirage Tower really had been anything other than a generic cave with a fancy name, I would have missed it
- See my commentary on Contests
- 'Decent replacement minigame'? since when is Voltorb Flip a decent replacement minigame? I absolutely loath that game. I'll admit, some kind of arcade type games could have been fun, but I'm not really missing it too much. As why the GC isn't in there, well, legal reasons and not something GF can control
- I rarely visit em anyway, so it's really not that annoying to me. And even if I did, how hard is it to walk over to a PokéMart?
- Fair enough, though this isn't just an issue in ORAS
- Yeah, that's actually a pity. I liked most of the puzzles, but in ORAS they could have done a little more with it, instead of less
- HGSS auto-run toggle was nice yes. I liked that. But I'm also so used to pressing the B button I caught myself doing it regardless. As for the skates... I finally got sorta used to them, but still don't like em. Especially not consider they're stuck to the D-pad and you can't change that. The lack of auto-run also makes you less likely to scare Hidden Pokémon
- How? I only checked the official site (and the occasional CoroCoro leaks) and the only thing I got from that was a new Rayquaza form and the new character, Zinnia. Also more reason to beat the game for me. Deoxys wasn't exactly a surprise either
- So? Allows you to plan your team ahead if you want... And if you want to discover everything yourself, a media black-out might be a better option. I'll admit I don't care too much about Megas though. I like em, but that's about it
- New main games could very well be next Gen's games, which normally don't have compatibility with previous games anyway (ok they do, but that's a one way street) Don't see the problem here
- Haven't tried either of em yet, so no opinion
- At least three times as many characters use Mega Evolution in ORAS as in XY. I also think they should be reserved for more special battles as well (granted, had there been Gym Leader rematches, it would have been nice if they got Megas at some point)
- And why should it? I buy the game for the game, not for the extra
- They don't exactly need the main focus either, do they? Also most have certain requirements, some easier than others, so you still gotta do stuff for em
- Agreed
- Absolutely don't agree. I personally think the DexNav is one of the best new features. I absolutely love hunting for Pokémon (though yes, chaining can get a bit boring at some point, but I'm pretty sure that's a sign for you to put your 3DS away for a bit and do something else)
- Before capturing/defeating your Box Mascot, yes. That could def have been better (even if they'd just included some of the Gen IV evolution relatives) After new species appear, there's plenty of choice (also in the Mirage Spots)
- But still quite a lot to do. And I'm also one of those people who leaves side-quests for post-game, so I'm personally not bothered by it. Also, though I like the Sevii Islands a lot, they didn't add much other than providing space for some Gen II Pokémon and items
- Just my experience, but they didn't feel easier. I think I even lost to Archie on Mt Chimney... Granted, they could have used a bigger variety of pokémon, but this is also hardly an ORAS exclusive issue
- No Mega Flygon (or Milotic for that matter) was a disappointment indeed

So, though there are a couple of things I agree with, most of them are extremely minor complaints and don't make the game less enjoyable. also a lot of the things mentioned in this list are based on personal preference, so a lot of people might not see them as a problem at all

 

[Muur]

No mention of the Maison being copy pasted, no friend safari or Wally rematches being stuck behind something most people wont achieve?

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

No battle Frontier, no Kyogre vs Groudon battle in Sootopolis, not saving some legends and starters for next game(s), Copy and pasted Battle Maison, no gym leader rematches and lots of other features from Emerald that got left out. I prefer HGSS games to these games by far.

 

[Lt Surge]

Those that complain about a lack of BF need to realize that OR/AS are remakes of Ruby and Sapphire versions, not Emerald.
It seems the popular thing to do is hate ORAS, but for me it is completely opposite. Omega Ruby is probably my favorite Pokémon game I've ever played (maybe besides 1st Gen). ORAS was the first game that I have had any motivation to play after beating the main storyline.