Generation VI: The Future

[BlackButterfree]

I could also see the leash acting as wrap and coil like moves

Thank you for calling it a "leash". So far I only saw people referring to it as a "scarf" and I was amazed at how anyone could look at a dog with a strip coming from around its neck and think "scarf" rather than "leash".
Not that it matters much, I just immediately thought leash when I saw it and I was surprised others saw it as something else.

Idk why I didn't see it before, but you're totally right. I know this is probably not going to happen, but what if you could walk it outside of the pokeball in the overworld, holding the leash? If that happened, I'd be so happy.

Look at my puppy! "Awww" *transforms into Zygarde Complete Form*

Oh god, imagine having to pick up the complete form poop. Not enough plastic bags and paper towels in the world.

It's actually 4.5 meters tall according to the Japanese site. That's 14', which is actually shorter than the 50% Zygarde we all know and love (16').

So while the poop would be massive (probably a 6 pound deuce), it would be able to be picked up. Or if not, you can always walk it on Route 7 to fertilize your berry trees.

 

[Lufenium]

Perfect Zygarde is smaller than the 50% form? Interesting. It was literally mountainous in the teaser trailer. I'm glad it's not actually that big, though.

 

[Mehrunes_Bagon]

I could also see the leash acting as wrap and coil like moves

Thank you for calling it a "leash". So far I only saw people referring to it as a "scarf" and I was amazed at how anyone could look at a dog with a strip coming from around its neck and think "scarf" rather than "leash".
Not that it matters much, I just immediately thought leash when I saw it and I was surprised others saw it as something else.

Idk why I didn't see it before, but you're totally right. I know this is probably not going to happen, but what if you could walk it outside of the pokeball in the overworld, holding the leash? If that happened, I'd be so happy.

Look at my puppy! "Awww" *transforms into Zygarde Complete Form*

Oh god, imagine having to pick up the complete form poop. Not enough plastic bags and paper towels in the world.

It's actually 4.5 meters tall according to the Japanese site. That's 14', which is actually shorter than the 50% Zygarde we all know and love (16').

So while the poop would be massive (probably a 6 pound deuce), it would be able to be picked up. Or if not, you can always walk it on Route 7 to fertilize your berry trees.

Oh, thought it was of Kaiju proportions, my bad. Even still, feed it an expired PokéPuff and try to pick it up then.

 

[Esserise]

Perfect Zygarde is smaller than the 50% form? Interesting. It was literally mountainous in the teaser trailer. I'm glad it's not actually that big, though.

Keep in mind that Zygarde 50% Forme is most likely being measured from head-to-tail as fully stretched-out. Zygarde Complete Forme probably still wins out a bit in the vertical department.

 

[BlackButterfree]

Perfect Zygarde is smaller than the 50% form? Interesting. It was literally mountainous in the teaser trailer. I'm glad it's not actually that big, though.

Keep in mind that Zygarde 50% Forme is most likely being measured from head-to-tail as fully stretched-out. Zygarde Complete Forme probably still wins out a bit in the vertical department.

True. Zygarde is measured from tip of the crest to tip of the tail is 16'. It's actually probably closer to 8' in its overworld sprite and model.

 

[Lufenium]

So I re-read the US site update on the recent form reveals and noticed something.

I don't know if its just me, or does the US site seem really keen on pushing that this was animation news, and not just general news? I'm likely over-thinking it, but I was curious to see if anyone else had noted that.

 

[Zeb]

So I re-read the US site update on the recent form reveals and noticed something.

I don't know if its just me, or does the US site seem really keen on pushing that this was animation news, and not just general news? I'm likely over-thinking it, but I was curious to see if anyone else had noted that.

I noticed it when it updated on Monday, but I didn't bring it up (because a dissenting opinion on here just results in a bunch of people shouting at you and it avoids the headache of arguing with everyone cos frankly I don't have the energy or investment to bother doing it anymore).

I think a game announcement isn't coming soon and they want to make sure it's spelled out clearly that it's anime news to avoid game hype. They've just revealed the forms now in the same way they revealed Hoopa (for the West) months in advance too despite us still not having it (the arc isn't going to be relevant in the west for a while).

I'll be very surprised if Z is happening at this point. Tar and feather me for it. I said it the other day with the Corocoro news, but I don't think people should be so certain it's happening, but I'm really not going to stop you all hyping yourselves up if that's what you want to do. And if I end up being wrong, then I'm wrong, don't really care. It would just be nice if people could actually consider or entertain the idea that Game Freak are planning something else because this situation doesn't seem right.

Edit: @Endolise below, I haven't seen this video. I might have to watch it. (sorry for lame edit just didn't want to make a new post just for one line)

 

[Esserise]

I'll be very surprised if Z is happening at this point. Tar and feather me for it. I said it the other day with the Corocoro news, but I don't think people should be so certain it's happening, but I'm really not going to stop you all hyping yourselves up if that's what you want to do. And if I end up being wrong, then I'm wrong, don't really care. It would just be nice if people could actually consider or entertain the idea that Game Freak are planning something else because this situation doesn't seem right.

I am beginning to concur.

I don't know if any of you guys follow Marriland on YouTube, but he actually did a video the other day where he explained his thoughts on a potential new game. And he raised what I thought was a really good point - it all just seems a bit fishy. We have this anime arc called "XY & Z" coming up, and it deals with Zygarde, so they obviously want to draw our attention to "Z" specifically... because it is really blatantly obvious. *Too* obvious. Because of the upcoming "Z arc," we are all expecting Pokémon Z to be the new game. But why would they preempt their own big reveal like that? It would be more strategic to get our minds trained on Z so that they can surprise us with something else.

There are other factors, of course. Primarily, that timeline of releases that they showed during the GO press conference hinting at a new generation to come in 2016. And the fact that a "Pokémon Z" as a full-fledged game would have little to offer besides the Zygarde formes and a handful of features. As has been stated many times, we already have every Pokémon available to us between XY and ORAS. And since Zygarde Core turned out to not be a new Pokémon, we can probably rule out the possibility of a "Gen 6.5" occurring. And of course, there is the Strange Souvenir tourist dropping very blunt hints about the future.

Of course, I still cannot think that the Zygarde forms and Volcanion and Eternal Floette will not have *any* presence in the Gen 6 games... I just don't really have any idea as to how that presence could manifest. I kind of like Silktree's idea of a "Z Episode" DLC pack; there are several logical and sensible advantages to such a thing, but Game Freak seem to be determined DLCphobes, and I do not know how technologically feasible something like that would be anyway. But I mean, the coding is there, in the Gen 6 games... unless something in their production schedule underwent a considerable shift, I have to believe that it is there for a reason. But I am now quite convinced that there will not be a new game until mid- to late-2016, and that it will mark the beginning of Gen 7, not the end of Gen 6.

 

[Boss1708]

Do you think it's possible that the new games are being held back intentionally to assure more people will buy them? Cause they could think that a large portion of fans could not be "hungry" for a new game yet? I know people around here are, but casual fans might not be...Like Platinum was held back, as it clearly didn't take two year to produce, but GF probably held it back so people could hype up more?

Could this be the case with Z? Cause Z surely could be made in less than 12 months, since ORAS took around a year to produce and Z should be easier to produce... at least if it is not a sequel.

My guesses are 2...
- They are waiting for PMD to be released before they announce the new game, a Nintendo decision.

- ORAS was a very hyped and long awaited game, so they think it should stay relevant longer and that the fans hype for it will take longer to wear out than usual.

My hypothesis might be completely wrong, but I just know they could have released a simple third version Z by now if they wanted to.

However, if they are planning to surprise us and start Gen 7 next year, it would all be explained.

 

[Tensho]

Well, let's see if they announce it before next month CoroCoro.

 

[Lufenium]

I noticed it when it updated on Monday, but I didn't bring it up (because a dissenting opinion on here just results in a bunch of people shouting at you and it avoids the headache of arguing with everyone cos frankly I don't have the energy or investment to bother doing it anymore).

I think a game announcement isn't coming soon and they want to make sure it's spelled out clearly that it's anime news to avoid game hype. They've just revealed the forms now in the same way they revealed Hoopa (for the West) months in advance too despite us still not having it (the arc isn't going to be relevant in the west for a while).

I'll be very surprised if Z is happening at this point. Tar and feather me for it. I said it the other day with the Corocoro news, but I don't think people should be so certain it's happening, but I'm really not going to stop you all hyping yourselves up if that's what you want to do. And if I end up being wrong, then I'm wrong, don't really care. It would just be nice if people could actually consider or entertain the idea that Game Freak are planning something else because this situation doesn't seem right.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who picked up on this.

After reading this US article, I'm having doubts about any game related news as well. As much as I want to believe that we'll get something soon, the 'animation news' insistence is jarring imo. There's also that Matsuda was in London a few weeks ago to discuss marketing strategies. It's fishy.

edit:

I am now quite convinced that there will not be a new game until mid- to late-2016, and that it will mark the beginning of Gen 7, not the end of Gen 6.

My only argument against this would actually be Eternal Floette, Volcanion & Zygarde. They haven't had much of a chance to shine yet and moving onto Gen VII would deny them that.

That said, I suppose there's nothing really stopping them from having Volcanion alongside Zygarde in the next film. That could make sense, as Hoopa wasn't showcased officially until Jan/Feb 2015. 3 event Pokemon, 3 movies. It does add up. Zygarde's forms (if at all a gameplay feature) could be a next gen exclusive form, like Mega Mewtwo Y was. As for Eternal Floette, as relative as that form is to Gen VI's plot, it could easily be made into an event Pokemon, like the celebratory Fancy/PokeBall Vivillon were last year.

I'd be more than happy for a new Gen to begin.

 

[zoroarctic]

So I re-read the US site update on the recent form reveals and noticed something.

I don't know if its just me, or does the US site seem really keen on pushing that this was animation news, and not just general news? I'm likely over-thinking it, but I was curious to see if anyone else had noted that.

I've been thinking about that for a while as well. It could very well just be a sign the XY anime is nearing its conclusion.

 

[Esserise]

My only argument against this would actually be Eternal Floette, Volcanion & Zygarde. They haven't had much of a chance to shine yet and moving onto Gen VII would deny them that.

That said, I suppose there's nothing really stopping them from having Volcanion alongside Zygarde in the next film. That could make sense, as Hoopa wasn't showcased officially until Jan/Feb 2015. 3 event Pokemon, 3 movies. It does add up. Zygarde's forms (if at all a gameplay feature) could be a next gen exclusive form, like Mega Mewtwo Y was. As for Eternal Floette, as relative as that form is to Gen VI's plot, it could easily be made into an event Pokemon, like the celebratory Fancy/PokeBall Vivillon were last year.

I'd be more than happy for a new Gen to begin.

Right; well as I said, I find it incredibly hard to believe, barring some radical change-of-plans that we couldn't possibly know about, that the coding for Volcanion, Eternal Floette, and Thousand Waves/Arrows is present in XY's data for no reason. I don't think that this is like the God Stone in Gen 5; it is more like if we had found the coding for Kyurem's forme, and then they never made a Kyurem game at all and just skipped ahead to Gen 6. Even the God Stone was at least "half-right" in that it portended that they would do something with Kyurem. But, as we know, they thought better of their idea to do essentially "Pokémon Gray and Pokémon Grey," and restructured it as B2W2; hence the addition of the DNA Splicers.

Silktree's DLC pack idea would actually resolve a lot of these issues; Zygarde would still receive its formes (I mean, obviously, kids who watch the anime are going to want to use those formes), and it would breathe a bit of life into XY; perhaps just enough to tide us over until the new main series games. It would also (sort of, I guess, from a certain perspective, and depending on how much new content the pack included) make up for XY's barren post-game, and it would side-step the issue of a full-fledged Pokémon Z having nothing to offer in regards to Pokémon availability, because it would just be adding onto XY. XY didn't really leave much material for a sequel, but there are enough hanging threads, I think, to warrant at least *some* kind of treatment. And Volcanion and Eternal Floette could just be distributed to XYORAS as your usual events alongside the anime/M19.

 

[Silktree]

That said, I suppose there's nothing really stopping them from having Volcanion alongside Zygarde in the next film.

Volcanion is definitely going to be in the next film given the long-held tradition of event Pokémon being featured. It's Zygarde that may not appear (or at least have a big role) considering that it already has a big anime arc; early movie teasers are very misleading, and it's quite possible that they just wanted to foreshadow the new anime arc rather than the movie itself.

Now that I can post again without feeling that no one wants to understand where I'm coming from, I completely agree with Marriland that it makes very little sense to have us anticipate a Z version without actually announcing it or hinting at an upcoming game announcement. It simply has never happened before, and for good reason. The last time a version mascot was revealed before its game was as far back as 2008 with Origin Forme, but at least then no one was really sure that Giratina would be the mascot considering that Mesprit was also a viable candidate and there was no pattern to speak of yet. The only legendary Forme that existed before then were the Deoxys ones, so it wasn't even obvious that Origin Forme would indeed be carried over to the games. Finally, they certainly didn't give us any clue to Platinum being the title. But more importantly, ever since then game announcements have been much less predictable at least in regard to timing; we weren't kept months on end expecting something obvious.

Furthermore, if a Z version were to exist, why spoil the story through the anime? The usual way to promote an upcoming game is to use its Pokémon for a mostly original movie that isn't based on the games. Wouldn't a Z version retread enough content from XY, that an anime arc preceding its release would leave little room for speculation? I'd call that marketing lunacy. ORAS may have spoiled all the new Mega Evolutions, but at least the Delta Episode was something players got to experience with only minimal information given beforehand.

Lastly, Masuda said just a year ago that a Z version wouldn't be surprising. I know that some fans like to interpret that quote as saying that it would have only been predictable right after XY, but how does that make sense? It's especially predictable now that we know about the Zygarde Formes. It would have made much more sense for Masuda to refuse talking about Z as a possibility, but he went as far as saying that XY would be tied together in more unique ways than even sequels. Now that we know about Complete Forme, a paired release for Zygarde has been ruled out and it is high time to consider how XY can be tied together without a new Kalos game.

What I've had in mind for basically a year now is a story-driven eShop app about Kalos' past; I dub it "Kalos Chronicles". It would be a way for us to experience Zygarde's role in life threatening events in Kalos' past, which are:

1. AZ's war 3000 years ago.
2. Some event involving Xerneas and Yveltal 800 years ago (referenced in Anistar).
3. A war involving Kalos' neighboring regions 300 years ago (referenced in Parfum Palace).

Perhaps Zygarde "grew" in every one of these events. That is, it was only 10% during AZ's war, 50% 800 years ago and finally 100% 300 years ago. The app could show us Zygarde's reaction to each event. I assume that it wasn't powerful enough to stop AZ's war or Yveltal's rampage 800 years ago, but what happened in the last war?

Gameplay-wise, there could be battles involved in these events, but I imagine that the player's team would be mostly pre-set much like in the ORAS demo. In fact, we could play as three different characters depending on the period. But as a reward for completing each episode, we would be able to transfer the following Pokémon to the main series games (via Pokémon Link):

1. Eternal Floette (obviously part of AZ's war)
2. Volcanion (possibly related to 800 years ago, if that was the time it blew up the mountains in southern Kalos)
3. Zygarde with its special moves (presumably related to all three events, with the culmination being the last war)

I am not going to assume that Zygarde's Formes will be added via a patch to XY or ORAS, especially as that isn't necessary. Its moves would still give it a boost in the meantime, and the Formes should eventually be usable in the next generation. In fact, the explanation for Zygarde not having access to its Formes in the current games could be that some of the Zygarde cells/cores have migrated to another region since the distant past, which would also explain Zygarde's passiveness in XY. To tide us over, Game Freak could add a re-designed Battle Chateau to the app (it should have been around 300 years ago) and make the Zygarde Formes usable there.

 

[BlackButterfree]

What I've had in mind for basically a year now is a story-driven eShop app about Kalos' past; I dub it "Kalos Chronicles". It would be a way for us to experience Zygarde's role in life threatening events in Kalos' past, which are:

1. AZ's war 3000 years ago.
2. Some event involving Xerneas and Yveltal 800 years ago (referenced in Anistar).
3. A war involving Kalos' neighboring regions 300 years ago (referenced in Parfum Palace).

Perhaps Zygarde "grew" in every one of these events. That is, it was only 10% during AZ's war, 50% 800 years ago and finally 100% 300 years ago. The app could show us Zygarde's reaction to each event. I assume that it wasn't powerful enough to stop AZ's war or Yveltal's rampage 800 years ago, but what happened in the last war?

Gameplay-wise, there could be battles involved in these events, but I imagine that the player's team would be mostly pre-set much like in the ORAS demo. In fact, we could play as three different characters depending on the period. But as a reward for completing each episode, we would be able to transfer the following Pokémon to the main series games (via Pokémon Link):

1. Eternal Floette (obviously part of AZ's war)
2. Volcanion (possibly related to 800 years ago, if that was the time it blew up the mountains in southern Kalos)
3. Zygarde with its special moves (presumably related to all three events, with the culmination being the last war)

I am not going to assume that Zygarde's Formes will be added via a patch to XY or ORAS, especially as that isn't necessary. Its moves would still give it a boost in the meantime, and the Formes should eventually be usable in the next generation. In fact, the explanation for Zygarde not having access to its Formes in the current games could be that some of the Zygarde cells/cores have migrated to another region since the distant past, which would also explain Zygarde's passiveness in XY. To tide us over, Game Freak could add a re-designed Battle Chateau to the app (it should have been around 300 years ago) and make the Zygarde Formes usable there.

I find most of these ideas underwhelming or simply contrived. It seems like a game version of "Arceus and the Jewel of Life" with all the time-hopping. I'd rather get a short paragraph of lore on the official website than something so... reductive.

 

[Silktree]

I find most of these ideas underwhelming or simply contrived.

And I find a third version remarkably underwhelming and a waste of time relative to a new generation. What's your point?

 

[Cainhxrst]

Well, using the anime to end generation 6 would be "unexpected and surprising" so I honestly wouldn't put it past GF to do that haha.

Originally I was thinking we'd get "Z" announced In October, before the anime launched, but yeah. Re-reading the post on the official site does make it seem kinda' strange.

I mean, I'm all for gen 7 in 2016, but it still seems weird to have such massive news and then have them be like "GUYS IT'S JUST THE ANIME".

Of course, with everyone expecting a Z version now, It'd be fun to see everyone thrown for a loop and have them announce gen 7.

I'm still going to take this as they plan on making Z, just not for a while, but I don't understand why they'd start to hype and promote an anime for Z with no game announcement on the horizon as far as we know.

 

[godiego]

@Silktree;

a few issues: i am skeptical, to say the least, of your proposal. i don't think it would be conducive to GameFreak's "we don't charge for incomplete games" principle. so that would mean that this App is likely a free one. this is then a risky investment. you have to take the resources to make this half-assed "game," but then not even charge for it. and then we all know that substantive additive DLC cannot work for either XY or ORAS since they don't have appropriate checks at the moment (ie., they don't ensure that the SD card is in). essentially, GameFreak releases a game that is a shovel and some dirt and tells players and fans "fill the holes." releasing a bare bones game to tide over to another generation seems a bit less prudent than releasing another complete game, even if that game has the chance to be reductive.

i think people have been reading far too much into Masuda's "we want to surprise" statement. he's a businessperson and a business representative. GameFreak isn't going to say "we like to be predictable. we like our customers to be able to predict our next game five years before we even know we're releasing one." and ultimately there's little to no evidence that suggests that GameFreak likes to surprise us. after all, BW2 was Grey until they were more or less told to change it. honestly at this point i would be surprised with whatever they did. i'd be surprised if it were a third game, i'd be surprised if it were a sequel, and i'd be surprised if they were simply abandoning Kalos.

and finally, though i don't completely disagree with Marilland-- i think he's right that we can't infer that the CoroCoro scans mean #PokemonZConfirmed-- his argument has some weaknesses. firstly, the existence of Best Wishes 2 and it being teased in CoroCoro and it ultimately going over our heads is a sort of red herring. that implies that we cannot simply rule out Z. additionally, he argues that Pokemon announcements have been getting bigger. that's simply not the case. adding BW in, only two of the four most recent games have had a lot of fanfare: BW2 and XY. BW, flagship of a new generation interestingly, and ORAS were both revealed via press releases. XY got a substantial announcement, but that was also because GameFreak, TPCi, and Nintendo marketed the fuck out of XY. BW2 is more likely to be more of an outlier than anything, but even still i wouldn't say a Pokemon Smash announcement is a massive one.

ultimately i think it's far too soon to be ruling anything out. if it's middle of November and we don't have anything, perhaps we can start ruling out Pokemon Z or another Kalos game, but until then i don't think we can make any more assumptions.

 

[Silktree]

a few issues: i am skeptical, to say the least, of your proposal. i don't think it would be conducive to GameFreak's "we don't charge for incomplete games" principle. so that would mean that this App is likely a free one.

This wouldn't be DLC and it would be completely justified to charge around $10 for it. They had us pay for Dream Radar.

releasing a bare bones game to tide over to another generation seems a bit less prudent than releasing another complete game, even if that game has the chance to be reductive.

The idea is that they presumably want to release a new generation next year (as implied by the timeline shown during Go's announcement) and that releasing too many "complete" games would be reductive. They could easily release an app by the end of this year, but it would be really forced if they did that for a third version.

after all, BW2 was Grey until they were more or less told to change it.

But they did change it. Going back from that to a third version isn't so easy when people have higher expectations now. Besides, I don't see why Nintendo would be happy with a third version being the last 3DS entry.

additionally, he argues that Pokemon announcements have been getting bigger. that's simply not the case. adding BW in, only two of the four most recent games have had a lot of fanfare: BW2 and XY. BW, flagship of a new generation interestingly, and ORAS were both revealed via press releases. XY got a substantial announcement, but that was also because GameFreak, TPCi, and Nintendo marketed the fuck out of XY. BW2 is more likely to be more of an outlier than anything, but even still i wouldn't say a Pokemon Smash announcement is a massive one.

BW and ORAS being revealed via press releases seemingly out of nowhere was still effective because they surprised even people who expected them eventually (and I don't think anyone expected a second DS-based generation). That's what Marriland is getting at: the element of surprise.

 

[The Outrage]

I find most of these ideas underwhelming or simply contrived. It seems like a game version of "Arceus and the Jewel of Life" with all the time-hopping. I'd rather get a short paragraph of lore on the official website than something so... reductive.

I don't think reductive means what you think it means if you think a "short paragraph of lore" is less reductive than an eShop game that explores it in-depth.