Starter discussion/speculation

[Zeb]

Though a thought hit me a few days ago: if we do get a fire cat starter, why not have it based on the caracal? Instead of tufts of fur on the ears we could have flames. If done right it would look pretty boss.

I think a caracal would draw too many comparisons to Fennekin since a caracal's most defining feature are its ears, just like a fennec fox. Obviously they aren't alike as animals, but if you're doing fiery ears like you suggest then we just had that motif with Fennekin so it feels a bit repetitive. For a caracal I'd want a pure Ground two stage speedy special attacker - the cat line of the generation like we've had in the past.

I'd still prefer a reptilian Fire starter (still going with my gila monster wish), even if "Nyabby" is a suspicion.

I don't really see how a grass owl would like good or why people want one so badly. We have noctowl or if you wanted another one any typing besides grass flying if works for tropius but I can't see It working for any other design

I'm not going to explain why people want one since it's personal preference and if they like the idea then they like the idea (I personally just want a Grass bird starter, don't really care too much what it is though peafowl, owl, parrot etc all seem good choices to me). Noctowl being the only owl doesn't mean much considering it's nearly 20 year old itself and so another owl representative, which would be a different typing to Noctowl, isn't asking for much considering how much variety there is in owls and how neglected they are in Pokemon. And in terms of it not looking good Cactowl is a beloved fake for a reason - most people really like it. That recent owl I posted (which Silverwynde quoted above) also looks pretty good for a starter imo.

I've been over the Grass/Flying argument before with eworm, but regardess it wouldn't have to be Grass/Flying especially since an owl could work as something like Grass/Psychic or even Grass/Dark. But even then, we have Shaymin-Sky who proves that Grass/Flying isn't bad as people like to try and make out. Sure Shaymin has tons of coverage, high Speed, Seed Flare, Serene Grace etc but that's why it's ended up overpowered, tone it down a bit while still giving a Grass/Flying mon enough tools to work and it would be fine. Tropius is weak and defensive, while Jumpluff is weak and supportive so they aren't the best Pokemon to draw usefulness from especially when starters end up around 530 BST (70 points more than Tropius/Jumpluff in fact).

 

[Peachy]

I had a dream that the starters were announced, the grass type was literally just a recolored Torchic, the fire type was Fennekin with tiger stripes, and ths water starter.... was a dolphin. Huh. I always thought fire starters were my favorite, but maybe my subconscious is trying to tell me something.. -X files theme-

That reminds me of a dream I had before B2W2 came out, the Unova starters had been replaced and the new grass starter was the rose boss from Super Paper Mario.

I can't wait to see the starters, so we can stop speculating off the trademarks, although I do admit that I've been liking the fakes based on them. But a grass owl does sound cute.

 

[PinkIceFox]

A grass owl sounds like it would be adorable as heck. >o< I mean, it's no fire cat but it could easily continue my habit of loving fire and grass over water starters.

Owls are just awesome. I will always cheer for more owl pokemon!

 

[NoirGrimoir]

Yeah, we did have a minor disappoint with Fennekin going bipedal by its first evolution (in order to adopt the mage theme). Currently Typhlosion is the only fully-evolved starter that isn't strictly bipedal, but at the same time, it's about as quadrupedal as Pikachu is.

I enjoy Braixen and Delphox as they are and I don't see how they could be improved by being quadrupedal. I don't get why it's so important to have more starters become quadrupedal, or are somehow disappointing when they aren't. Either is fine, it's not like there needs to be a quota or something. Who are these quadruped police that we need to appease?

 

[Zeb]

I enjoy Braixen and Delphox as they are and I don't see how they could be improved by being quadrupedal. I don't get why it's so important to have more starters become quadrupedal, or are somehow disappointing when they aren't. Either is fine, it's not like there needs to be a quota or something. Who are these quadruped police that we need to appease?

Just because you think it's fine doesn't mean people can't want it. The same way people were tired of Fire/Fighting and the same way people enjoyed Chespin being the first mammalian Grass starter is the same way some people are tired with every Fire starter ending up bipedal and would like a change. Some people just prefer variety and that's ok to want.

Trying to undermine their opinion like you are doing seems unnecessary to me.

 

[Lufenium]

It's not that it's important to have a quadruped Fire starter...it's a bit like how people would like a defensive Fire starter for once. Diversity is always nice.

I guess it's not really a factor in regards to gameplay as typing would be...but in terms of design, it's a crucial part of it.

 

[Zeb]

Yeah, it's not that it's an important thing to have, more just it would be good to see it happen for once. It's not like we've had one before making the wish unreasonable, so I don't understand the whole appeasing the "quadruped police" snarky comment. It's like people asking for a Grass bird starter, it's not important but a lot of people want one for the diversity and change. When we're 700+ Pokemon in why bother wanting more of the same when we could have something different than before?

And you're right about the design part Lunafreya. To a lot of people the design is the most important factor to a Pokemon's appeal (whereas others like typings, stats etc).

 

[Proxima Centauri B]

I enjoy Braixen and Delphox as they are and I don't see how they could be improved by being quadrupedal. I don't get why it's so important to have more starters become quadrupedal, or are somehow disappointing when they aren't. Either is fine, it's not like there needs to be a quota or something. Who are these quadruped police that we need to appease?

No one is "quadruped police" , I and some others simply want a quadruped fire starter for a change just for variety. Most of them are bipedal, I dont see why they shouldnt mix it up a little.

 

[Falconwing]

The funny thing is that many fire starters were quadrupeds at one point. Quilava, Tepig, Fennekin to be specific. It's a shame they were so inconsistant with the concept

 

[NoirGrimoir]

Just because you think it's fine doesn't mean people can't want it. The same way people were tired of Fire/Fighting and the same way people enjoyed Chespin being the first mammalian Grass starter is the same way some people are tired with every Fire starter ending up bipedal and would like a change. Some people just prefer variety and that's ok to want.

Trying to undermine their opinion like you are doing seems unnecessary to me.

You know what seems unnecessary to me? Trying to give me some kind of lecture when all I said was that I didn't understand why people wanted Delphox to be quadrapedal. Delphox specifically, not any starter ever. If people shouldn't undermine others' opinions (like I completely didn't do), then I don't see why it's okay to undermine mine.

 

[Matleo]

I really hope they will overthink better about there secondary typings , abilities and movepools this and future generations.

Last generation was fantastic but Delphox(Phantom Force, Perish Song, Forest Curse, Destiny Bond, Omnious Wind,Whirlwind) and Chesnaught(Extream Speed, Bulletproof+beam and blast(bomb???moves)) were really behind Greninja(Protean+great movepool).

How is it that Samurott and Chesnaught not got Extream Speed?
Or any other starter to this day?

Gen 4 : regular Torterra really would need Sturdy.(+better future ground moves+Spiky Shield)

Past generation starters got a really good buff with megas, abilities, movepools in the new generations.
Hope they will do that with the new ones in future.

 

[Falconwing]

I'm curious. Why do you think a pokemon like Chesnaught and Samurott needed extremespeed?

 

[Stratelier]

I don't get why it's so important to have more starters become quadrupedal, or are somehow disappointing when they aren't.

It's not a case of "four legs good, two legs bad" but it isn't a case of "four legs good, two legs better" either. Fennekin certainly isn't the only fox Pokemon to go from four to two (hello, Zorua), but it was still a distinct shift in design that not everyone was happy about.

Tangent: Kinda like in Puzzle Dragons Z when I finally collected enough items to evolve Dragon Knight & Samurai. These were two awesome designs by themselves, but their fully evolved forms ... I didn't like the addition of an extra pair of limbs on Dragon Paladin and Shogun (Dragon Paladin having a centaur-like stance on four legs, and Dragon Shogun having four swords in four arms).

 

[Blockhead Pippi]

I think what people are saying is that they just want a quadrupled final evolution for the fire starter just for the sake of keeping things a bit fresh, which is really not a bad want at all. We've had quadrupled final evolutions for grass and water starters. I admit that when I first saw Delphox through a leak, I was a bit taken aback too, but it was more because of its unexpected design than it being bipedal. In the end, I did still like the knight, mage and ninja theme they were going with. But you don't necessarily need a bipedal form to represent any of those. Samurott worked just fine with the samurai theme.

 

[Stratelier]

Yeah. Back when Fennekin was just revealed nobody really knew what kind of fox it would evolve into or what kind of theme it would have ... who knew that a trivial detail in its Pokedex entry would become the defining design feature of its evolutions?

 

[Zweilous]

It's not a case of "four legs good, two legs bad" but it isn't a case of "four legs good, two legs better" either. Fennekin certainly isn't the only fox Pokemon to go from four to two (hello, Zorua), but it was still a distinct shift in design that not everyone was happy about.

Tangent: Kinda like in Puzzle Dragons Z when I finally collected enough items to evolve Dragon Knight & Samurai. These were two awesome designs by themselves, but their fully evolved forms ... I didn't like the addition of an extra pair of limbs on Dragon Paladin and Shogun (Dragon Paladin having a centaur-like stance on four legs, and Dragon Shogun having four swords in four arms).

That's definitely true, and that's probably one of the main reasons why other Pokémon like Dragonite and Samurott get flack for their shifts. Fans were expecting (or hoping) that the Pokémon would go in a particular direction with their design direction, so for them to skip over the elements they liked (or give more focus to elements they didn't), it's definitely going to disappoint some people.

Same with your examples from Puzzle and Dragons. You can definitely understand where they were going with those designs (Paladin was supposed to be a mixture of a knight and a horse, Shogun was a natural progression from the single wielding Dragon Blade and dual wielding Dragon Samurai), but some may not like the extra limbs that they got and feel it went somewhere it didn't need to. For me personally, I loved Shogun's design, but Paladin I will admit that I was expecting something different.

 

[Stratelier]

...but some may not like the extra limbs that they got and...

Come to think of it, that's probably what I hate about Machamp's design too.

 

[WindBlast]

I can't wait to see the new starters, but I definitely hope that they do not end up being those trademarks ones. grass owl and a seas lion? not very appealing to me. The only thing I liked was the fire tiger.

Can we please have a water/ ice wolf starter? (water..moon..wolf), Fire/ dark tiger and a grass/ fairy lynx? Basically a canine/ feline based starters.

 

[Deku-Mimikyu]

Someone posted this to /r/Pokemon, some of the best starter designs I've seen yet!

Spoiler

 

[Peachy]

I think we need a Fire/Fighting starter based off of a character from Journey to the West. It's seems like a really unique idea. : ) /s

I want some unique type combinations for the final forms. Lines that stay pure typed are boring. Also it was only cool for the Johto starters. Sinnoh and Kalos did really well in that regard. And Emboar is my favorite Unova starter partly because it's the only one that gained another type upon evolution.