Mafia Elementar's Mafia Universe ~ Endgame (Written in Blue)

[Feenie]

I also am confused as to why a shot on Human is something that would be definitely pro-town.

Should we perhaps be looking more into Rainbow Cloud? Zachie is someone who was new to being mafia, an inexperienced person at it, and he even said as much. He said he was choosing between voting Rainbow Cloud or Darth, but he ended up choosing Darth. Maybe mentioning Rainbow Cloud was his way of distancing if he made it past the last phase alive. He could've been trying to revive the attempted wagon on Darth from the previous day.

 

[Feenie]

RC: Very defensive of Darth, so if Darth ends up flipping scum it's worth looking into but for now there's no proof of either. Darth's behaviour has been a bit off, but it's more circumstantial then it is anything else.

His read on Rainbow Cloud somehow shifted more onto Darth than on Rainbow Cloud himself. It all depended on Darth being lynched. Also notable is Rainbow Cloud's absence from the lynch.

 

[FinalArcadia]

His read on Rainbow Cloud somehow shifted more onto Darth than on Rainbow Cloud himself. It all depended on Darth being lynched. Also notable is Rainbow Cloud's absence from the lynch.

That's interesting; in that case, maybe RC is a better lynch option since you could make a case that scum Zachie could've wanted to shift a lynch to Darth if town, and then him flipping town would sink the RC/Darth scumbuddy theory. I do wonder if Zachie truly believed that there was a chance that the lynch was going to move, since that changes how to interpret his Darth-related posts.

Also, there is this from last phase, as far as Zachie/Darth-related things go:

@Zachie you find me and RC suspicious, why did you pick me over RC though? Why do I stand out to you?
No Lone that wasn't meant as a reference

This was the last thing Darth posted iirc. And he never voted Zachie. Looking at that, it does make me paranoid again that this was a purposeful distancing.

 

[Alex Kaz]

@Alex Kaz
Why Human for a vig shot recommendation? We might be on the same page about that (for one thing, the cultist scare out of nowhere last phase that may have been an attempted distraction from Zachie... and maybe Darth too?), but I'm interested in your reasons.

I've been keeping an eye on him ever since he dropped both Darth and Zachie's cases. It would be okay-ish if he said he sees what the case is and simply didn't like it, but he outright said he sees nothing. Which was pretty disturbing to me, because being overly neutral with shade throwing and seemingly large but contentless and effortless posts are pretty good reasons for early days lynching. You can't seriously not see a case in this. It's like he was defending both. And with Zachie flipping scum the trio being a scum team is a very likely scenario, in my eyes at least.
Another thing to note is his late vote on the Zachie wagon. He voted Zachie near the end of the phase after his attempt to lynch you based on that cultist thing didn't go as well as expected.
Yet another small reason is the fact he's been leading town lynches two days in a row. This one is not a really strong argument since he could easily have been wrong (as I have) but it's these little details that pile up and make him look pretty suspicious if you keep an eye on his overall behavior.

 

[HumanDawn]

The only other read that I find worth mentioning is on Human

It's just so... careful.

I agree, it's a common read by Mafia to not show they have reason to trust me so they have an excuse not to follow me, while at the same time not being too aggressive on me so I don't hope on their case.

@alex Kax I am a leader, it is common for me to get scum lynched on the third day anyway.

@FinalArcadia The sword and stone still makes me think of Corrin.....

Vigilante shooting me is a terrible idea, the reason why I defended Darthwolf so much is because I had reason to believe they were likely Town, and when I saw the votes on him, I thought scum could be in his wagon. Slife went from Darth to Zachie and was my biggest scumread. Despite Zachie flipping Mafia, it does not change my view that Darth is Mafia and again, it would be a terrible mistake to lynch him tomorrow.

My role has also been Vanillaized since the beginning of Day 3, so I'm powerless for the rest of the game. I didn't share the information because I wasn't sure if it came from Mafia or thought it would be a good idea, but if suspicion is going to rise on me, may as well show as many cards as I'm comfortable in showing. That said, I won't tell what my role/s are so it's harder for Mafia to fakeclaim, but I will say that it should explain some of my earlier comments and maybe suspicions earlier in the game.

 

[Midorikawa]

I agree, it's a common read by Mafia to not show they have reason to trust me so they have an excuse not to follow me, while at the same time not being too aggressive on me so I don't hope on their case.

@alex Kax I am a leader, it is common for me to get scum lynched on the third day anyway.

@FinalArcadia The sword and stone still makes me think of Corrin.....

Vigilante shooting me is a terrible idea, the reason why I defended Darthwolf so much is because I had reason to believe they were likely Town, and when I saw the votes on him, I thought scum could be in his wagon. Slife went from Darth to Zachie and was my biggest scumread. Despite Zachie flipping Mafia, it does not change my view that Darth is Mafia and again, it would be a terrible mistake to lynch him tomorrow.

My role has also been Vanillaized since the beginning of Day 3, so I'm powerless for the rest of the game. I didn't share the information because I wasn't sure if it came from Mafia or thought it would be a good idea, but if suspicion is going to rise on me, may as well show as many cards as I'm comfortable in showing. That said, I won't tell what my role/s are so it's harder for Mafia to fakeclaim, but I will say that it should explain some of my earlier comments and maybe suspicions earlier in the game.

Not telling makes it easier to fake claim. By telling now. That's one less thing they can fake.

 

[Pikochu]

Thoughts based on the Zachie lynch:

I'm looking at the jd wagon that happened on Day 2 after HD's vote. Initially, I thought that LG is scum at first glance (before subbing in) but with Zachie's flip, that seems a whole lot less probable. I still feel that Mido's post is prodding for scum for activity.

I'm going to look over the read lists that Zachie has in light of his flip and see if I can discern anything from it.

 

[DarthWolf]

Darth still never voted

This was the last thing Darth posted iirc. And he never voted Zachie. Looking at that, it does make me paranoid again that this was a purposeful distancing.

@Zachie you made a list, but no clear scum read or actual vote on someone. Normally, such a read is followed by a vote. I believe you just made a list to look good, yet you don't want to risk yourself by making the wrong vote.

Vote: Zachie

Zachie (8) - Alex Kaz, DarthWolf, Midorikawa, HumanDawn, Feenie, Lone_Garurumon, Sword Master, Slife

I would advice you to read carefully.

With the flip of Zachie it's interesting how he didn't go into his thoughts on FA and RC. I do think that the missing of FA was honest though. Not sharing his thought on 2 partners seems unlikely.
His read on RC and quickly turned onto me, saying that if I a scum then RC is worth looking into. He didn't give much on RC himself which makes me think RC is a scum partner.

 

[Slife]

I can see where Alex Kaz is coming from about HD. I'm getting the same suspicions about him, and that Zachie vote is still unconvincing. But I say RC is the best target for a vig shot.

The thing with FA is that she followed along on both mislynches but when she finally decided to take a stand against a wagon it turned out scum. Also, I quite frankly don't think Zachie is clever/experienced enough as scum to know how to distance properly, so I don't think that argument works with the supposed FA and RC distancing. RC is scummy, but not for that reason imo.

Anyways. The vote on Darth could have been an attempted bus or distancing. Especially considering both were on the chopping block and I was pushing them.

That would mean Darth's vote on Zachie was also bussing, which is questionable so early in the game.

it does not change my view that Darth is Mafia and again, it would be a terrible mistake to lynch him tomorrow.

You meant Darth is not mafia, right?

 

[Rainbow Cloud]

I would advice you to read carefully.

With the flip of Zachie it's interesting how he didn't go into his thoughts on FA and RC. I do think that the missing of FA was honest though. Not sharing his thought on 2 partners seems unlikely.
His read on RC and quickly turned onto me, saying that if I a scum then RC is worth looking into. He didn't give much on RC himself which makes me think RC is a scum partner.

He could also be casting suspicion on myself because he knew he was going down and I was also coming under pressure, your votes on each other could also be a sign of trying to distance from one another.

 

[DarthWolf]

He could also be casting suspicion on myself because he knew he was going down and I was also coming under pressure, your votes on each other could also be a sign of trying to distance from one another.

He made the list before the votes piled up on him though.

 

[Rainbow Cloud]

He made the list before the votes piled up on him though.

He cast suspicion on both of us before the votes piled up but he cast his vote on you after this had happened. I'm still leaning more towards reading you as town though as I think his plan was pretty much just to try to push the lynch on you in order to save himself. The most likely reason he decided to push for your lynch instead of mine is because you already had votes cast on you and offered a greater chance of success.

 

[HumanDawn]

You meant Darth is not mafia, right?

YES...

I swear it's not a slip...!

 

[HumanDawn]

RE: I don't really see how my vote was not convincing? Pretty much everyone posted little to no reasoning in voting Zachie anyway.

 

[Slife]

RE: I don't really see how my vote was not convincing? Pretty much everyone posted little to no reasoning in voting Zachie anyway.

Because just the day phase before you were defending him and even lynched my old slot for voting him. Then the next day you suddenly seem to find him scummy, and even then you only vote for him after a wagon had already started building up on him.

Also, what was the point in revealing you're Vanillized? I didn't think there was that much suspicion on you that you'd feel pressured into claiming something this soon. It doesn't really do much to convince your towniness and only deters reasons for night actions being used against you.

 

[HumanDawn]

Because just the day phase before you were defending him and even lynched my old slot for voting him. Then the next day you suddenly seem to find him scummy, and even then you only vote for him after a wagon had already started building up on him.

Also, what was the point in revealing you're Vanillized? I didn't think there was that much suspicion on you that you'd feel pressured into claiming something this soon. It doesn't really do much to convince your towniness and only deters reasons for night actions being used against you.

Woah, calm down. I know I lynched your old slot and I was wrong, but you're coming off to me to as being really hot-headed towards me out of spite.

At first I only posted that I found him scummy after the bandwagon formed, because I wasn't around to say it beforehand. I only voted him later when my worries of FinalArcadia being a cultist ceased. I said he wasn't a bad lynch for that reads list and stated my paranoia about potentially voting him. He didn't really offer anything later to change my mind. You and others just joined in the wagon too, and there were others that joined that did not vote him beforehand, so why are you not accusing them of suddenly seeming to find him scummy?

I only claimed that I was Vanillized and that I have reason to believe DarthWolf is Town out of paranoia because I did not want him to be vigilante killed either. Now you're making no sense, because if the Mafia probably Vanillized me, why would they bother using actions on me anyway?

 

[Slife]

Woah, calm down. I know I lynched your old slot and I was wrong, but you're coming off to me to as being really hot-headed towards me out of spite.

Surely you've seen by now that I play an aggressive playstyle. Deal with it. There's no personal animosity here.

At first I only posted that I found him scummy after the bandwagon formed, because I wasn't around to say it beforehand. I only voted him later when my worries of FinalArcadia being a cultist ceased. I said he wasn't a bad lynch for that reads list and stated my paranoia about potentially voting him. He didn't really offer anything later to change my mind. You and others just joined in the wagon too, and there were others that joined that did not vote him beforehand, so why are you not accusing them of suddenly seeming to find him scummy?

I already explained the difference between you and the others on the wagon. You were actively defending Zachie the phase before, so it's just not fully convincing to me that you would pull a 360 and change your entire read based off like three new posts from him in the time between. It looked more like following the wagon so you don't get singled out for not voting him. As for me, I voted as soon as I was able to sub back into the game, and picked up where my old slot left off in voting Zachie, so I don't know what you're trying to get at there.

I only claimed that I was Vanillized and that I have reason to believe DarthWolf is Town out of paranoia because I did not want him to be vigilante killed either. Now you're making no sense, because if the Mafia probably Vanillized me, why would they bother using actions on me anyway?

Well I meant town actions not mafia ones, but now that you bring that up that up, that actually gives you an alibi for not being targeted with mafia actions. It just seems uncalled for and leads to WIFOM situations.

 

[HumanDawn]

Surely you've seen by now that I play an aggressive playstyle. Deal with it. There's no personal animosity here.

You claim there is no personal animosity but you still give me the vibe that there is.

I already explained the difference between you and the others on the wagon. You were actively defending Zachie the phase before, so it's just not fully convincing to me that you would pull a 360 and change your entire read based off like three new posts from him in the time between. It looked more like following the wagon so you don't get singled out for not voting him. As for me, I voted as soon as I was able to sub back into the game, and picked up where my old slot left off in voting Zachie, so I don't know what you're trying to get at there.

I didn't pull a 360 though, it's not like I said I was sure he was Town anyway and said he was surely Mafia after. I was still a bit hesitant when the wagon was forming at first too. Thoughts and opinions on other players can change depending on flips and new content. I don't see how three posts is very little, I admit I gave him a chance because I thought he could be noob Town, but that chance can take you so far when the reads list ends up being very unsatisfactory. Are you saying I should not have suspected Zachie and not voted him? I still don't see what's so unnatural about my thought process anyway. You're not understanding what I'm saying, I only meant that there were others that joined later and used your time to vote as a reference of when they started voting Zachie. You're looking too hard into what's not there to satisfy a narrative on me out of very weak and circumstantial reasoning that... doesn't hold up and isn't true anyway.

Well I meant town actions not mafia ones, but now that you bring that up that up, that actually gives you an alibi for not being targeted with mafia actions. It just seems uncalled for and leads to WIFOM situations.

Which Town actions? Doctor? If I'm Town then it's good that the Doctor does not bother protecting me. Mafia will likely target somebody else because of power role fear and so will the Doctor. Which Mafia actions? Nightkilling? I don't need an alibi, but if you mean to claim because I'm actually worried about your previous claim that if I live past Night 4, then that means I'm Mafia, you should know how that's not true at all, because I made it to the final four of a game during December as a Cop till like, Night 6 or 7. You were even the Mafia in that game!

 

[FinalArcadia]

@FinalArcadia The sword and stone still makes me think of Corrin.....

I thought you had the answer before

Either way, some info in my role leads me to believe your vanilla-ized claim right now, so yeah, I'd be against you being vig'd with that in mind.

I would advice you to read carefully.

My bad, I did a fast look at the final vote tally before that post and I could've sworn your name wasn't there next to anyone, but clearly I was mistaken, sorry. If you really did vote him, then at this point I'd say RC is the better option next phase.

 

[Slife]

@HumanDawn Geez, you're getting a bit overly jumpy don't you think? All I said was that I found your vote unconvincing (plus the vanilla stuff). I explained why, but you clearly don't agree, and it doesn't change my opinion. I don't know what more you want me to say. At this point we're just going back and forth.