New Prototype Data for Red and Green

[Silktree]

Helix Chamber have been contacted by a donor, who sent them some prototype assets. Here is their analysis of the important tidbits.

For whatever reason, they chose to announce this via a stream of a ROM hack that includes some of these assets, in addition to fan-made ones. Given their honesty and zeal for prototype information, I don't doubt that the article is limited to facts. Nothing there is as surprising as the Spaceworld demo, either.

 

[Nicolas721]

The map being 70% complete and the Pokemon being 90% complete but the game being still labeled as Capumon makes me suspicious. But let's pretend it's real for the sake of getting closer to our goal:

-The ice yokai is the most interesting find. My theory was that the original Ice member of the elements trio was Sneasel, but no, something bulkier and able to do punches makes more sense. I can see a lot of people complaining that we should've gotten this instead of Jynx, and I am inclined to agree.
-The squid's existence is a bit justifiable if you remember Tentacool's supposed to be a jellyfish. However it's likely both Tentacool and Tentacruel (and Omanyte and Omastar too) took details from these two.
-I'm sure Pre-Zubat or at least its silhouette inspired Woobat.
-I saw a theory that Gyaoon was the basis for Exploud, and its preevolution having closed eyes and two horns gives it a lot more weight.
-Magnemite was going to pull a Klang?
-Marowak having an evolution explains why is it too simple, its design isn't that much different. And yes, it confirms that theory but gives it an unexpected twist.
-The "Wartortle had a third evolution in the end of the dex and Blastoise was separate" theory had a lot of weight to it and its nice to see it confirmed. It that turtle/pig is indeed Blastoise's preevolution I'm excited to see its front sprite some day.
-Same with the Sliph Chief theory they posted on Twitter a while ago. It's amazing how a character we know from 20+ years ago stole his design from someone else and keep it forever.
-It's very weird to see no released Gen II Pokemon on it, not even Gen I evolutions or redesigns.

 

[Silktree]

There are two files for teams, but sadly they're from pretty late in development (no scrapped Pokemon). Here are the important trainers, who almost all have two versions (the second version is closer to the final version):

Brock:
1. DIGLETT (9), ONIX (11)
2. GEODUDE (12), ONIX (14)

Misty:
1. GOLDEEN (18), SEADRA (16)
2. STARYU (17), STARMIE (21)

Lt. Surge:
1. VOLTORB (22), PIKACHU (23), ELECTABUZZ (20)
2. VOLTORB (24), PIKACHU (18), ELECTABUZZ (21)

Erika:
1. IVYSAUR (24), WEEPINBELL (23), EXEGGUTOR (20)
2. TANGELA (23), ODDISH (23), VILEPLUME (26)

Koga:
1. HAUNTER (33), KOFFING (35), GENGAR (31)
2. KOFFING (35), MUK (33), WEEZING (37)

Sabrina:
1. SLOWBRO (37), MR.MIME (40), VENOMOTH (39), ALAKAZAM (37)
1. KADABRA (32), MR.MIME (32), VENOMOTH (35), ALAKAZAM (39)

Blaine:
1. PONYTA (47), NINETALES (43), RAPIDASH (44), MAGMAR (46)
2. VULPIX (41), PONYTA (38), RAPIDASH (42), MAGMAR (45)

Giovanni:
1. ONIX (27), CLEFABLE (23), KANGASKHAN (21)
RHYDON (33), LICKITUNG (38), NIDOQUEEN (34), SCYTHER (35)
FARFETCH'D (50), FEAROW (48), DODRIO (46), PIDGEOT (47), AERODACTYL (44)

2. ONIX (24), RHYHORN (22), KANGASKHAN (27)
SCYTHER (33), RHYDON (29), PINSIR (33), NIDOKING (39)
RHYHORN (44), DUGTRIO (42), NIDOQUEEN (44), NIDOKING (45), RHYDON (49)

Lorelei:
DEWGONG (51), CLOYSTER (50), JYNX (53), LAPRAS (48)

Bruno:
PRIMEAPE (52), HITMONLEE (49), HITMONCHAN (49), MACHAMP (55)

Agatha:
1. TANGELA (55), FLAREON (52), JOLTEON (52), VAPOREON (52)
2. TAUROS (55), FLAREON (56), JOLTEON (59)

Lance:
1. DRATINI (60), DRAGONAIR (56), AERODACTYL (54), DRAGONITE (50)
2. DRATINI (60), DRAGONAIR (56), AERODACTYL (54), DRAGONITE (57)

Rival:
1. SQUIRTLE (5) / BULBASAUR (5) / CHARMANDER (5)
PIDGEY (9), SQUIRTLE (8) / BULBASAUR (8) / CHARMANDER (8)
PIDGEY (16), NIDORANF (15), SQUIRTLE (14) / PIDGEY (16), NIDORANM (15), BULBASAUR (14) / PIDGEY (16), ABRA (15), CHARMANDER (14)
PIDGEOTTO (19), MAGIKARP (30), NIDORINA (17), WARTORTLE (17) / PIDGEOTTO (19), EXEGGCUTE (20), NIDORINO (17), IVYSAUR (17) / PIDGEOTTO (19), GROWLITHE (20), KADABRA (16), CHARMELEON (17)
PIDGEOTTO (28), MAGIKARP (39), NIDORINA (26), JYNX (25), WARTORTLE (26) / PIDGEOTTO (28), EXEGGCUTE (29), NIDORINO (26), TANGELA (22), IVYSAUR (26) / PIDGEOTTO (28), GROWLITHE (29), KADABRA (25), MAGMAR (22), CHARMELEON (26)
PIDGEOT (35), MAGIKARP (49), NIDOQUEEN (33), JYNX (35), BLASTOISE (31) / PIDGEOT (35), EXEGGCUTE (39), NIDOKING (33), TANGELA (35), VENUSAUR (31) / PIDGEOT (35), GROWLITHE (39), ALAKAZAM (33), MAGMAR (35), CHARIZARD (31)
PIDGEOT (59), VENUSAUR (55), CHARIZARD (55), BLASTOISE (55), GYARADOS (51) / EXEGGUTOR (53) / ARCANINE (53)

2. No differences from the final version except for lower levels, no Raticate and no second Route 22 battle. His final team lacks Rhydon:
PIDGEOT (59), ALAKAZAM (53), ARCANINE (51), EXEGGUTOR (55), BLASTOISE (61) / PIDGEOT (59), ALAKAZAM (53), GYARADOS (51), ARCANINE (55), VENUSAUR (61) / PIDGEOT (59), ALAKAZAM (53), EXEGGUTOR (51), GYARADOS (55), CHARIZARD (61)

Prof. Oak:
TAUROS (66), EXEGGUTOR (67), ARCANINE (68), GYARADOS (70), VENUSAUR (69) / CHARIZARD (69) / BLASTOISE (69)

The map being 70% complete and the Pokemon being 90% complete but the game being still labeled as Capumon makes me suspicious.

Well, proto Red's front sprite isn't even compatible with his proto backsprite, which would be a weird choice for a fake (not to mention that he looks older than Blue). Chances are that the opening was left unedited at that point of development (1995?).

My theory was that the original Ice member of the elements trio was Sneasel,

Why, though? Sneasel wasn't an Ice type in Spaceworld, nor is it humanoid.

-Same with the Sliph Chief theory they posted on Twitter a while ago. It's amazing how a character we know from 20+ years ago stole his design from someone else and keep it forever.

It's worth noting that some text in the final script alludes to Chief: "SILPH's manager is hiding in the SAFARI ZONE."

Was he hiding from Team Rocket, or the police? The sprite makes him look like a bad guy, and yet they used it for Blaine.

 

[Nicolas721]

Why, though? Sneasel wasn't an Ice type in Spaceworld.

I didn't know that. I choose Sneasel as it seemed to be based off a popular yokai like Electabuzz and Magmar, was bipedal and received an evolution in Gen IV.

 

[Silktree]

@Nicolas721

Pure Dark type.

 

[El_]

So, Giovanni was originally a Flying type Gym Leader? I guess his english name would have been entirely different as well to reflect the type. Lol @ Farfetch'd being his highest leveled mon. (Aero's lv. isn't there, assuming under 50)

Agatha had no type preference originally it seems. Was the Ghost type itself still just a concept? Koga having the only line while being a Poison specialist might hint to that.

Now wish that Blastoise had received two megas like Charizard did, and Game Freak recycled elements from the original evolution. Finally explains why those cannons seemingly came out of nowhere, and why the seaweed longevity theme vanished from Wartortle.

Would have also been interesting to see Psyduck having a middle evo to Golduck... maybe the anime would have handled the evolution a bit better paced in that regard if it had.

 

[Silktree]

Don't forget that these teams came after the major changes had been made. Originally, Giovanni wasn't a gym leader at all, and Yujirou was the Viridian gym leader. I don't think that we have any hint of his specialty, but Helix Chamber gave him a Lickitung for that hack.

Was the Ghost type itself still just a concept? Koga having the only line while being a Poison specialist might hint to that.

Very possible. In fact... I've just checked move files, and Lick was Ground-type! They could have still given Agatha Flying/Ground, Bug or Normal as a specialty, though. It's odd that her Vaporeon disappeared in the second version.

Would have also been interesting to see Psyduck having a middle evo to Golduck... maybe the anime would have handled the evolution a bit better paced in that regard if it had.

But Psyduck never evolved, and I don't think that would have changed. It was too marketable.

 

[prog rocker]

The map being 70% complete and the Pokemon being 90% complete but the game being still labeled as Capumon makes me suspicious. But let's pretend it's real for the sake of getting closer to our goal:

Not exactly.

Spoiler: Capumon map

EDIT:

-Same with the Sliph Chief theory they posted on Twitter a while ago. It's amazing how a character we know from 20+ years ago stole his design from someone else and keep it forever.

I guess the change was late in development, since artwork for soldier Blaine exists and why the anime used that version.

EDIT 2: Also explains why Blaine uses a Magmar instead of Arcanine in the anime.

 

[Adelon]

Guardia should had been real.

I don't really care about the others but Guardia's absence just seems too cruel. Poor cubone.

 

[Silktree]

The anime had more than a year to make the change, and they didn't keep the soldier aspect.

@Adelon I am not sure I agree. Isn't it better for Cubone to evolve rather than relying on its adoptive mother? The situation with the Kangaskhan baby is pretty unclear, since it can only fight temporarily under rare circumstances. I'd rather that Cubone learn from an adoptive Marowak without being in her pouch.

Marowak is the evolved form of a Cubone that has overcome its sadness at the loss of its mother and grown tough. This Pokémon's tempered and hardened spirit is not easily broken.

 

[prog rocker]

The anime had more than a year to make the change, and they didn't keep the soldier aspect.

Well, they also removed Lt. Surge's soldier aspect and replaced it with a biker one, so I guess that was going to get cut no matter what.

 

[Silktree]

Hmm, fair point. But that Blaine episode was being planned in late 1997 at the earliest. They probably just didn't like the bald scientist angle, or maybe the Chief design only existed as a sprite at that point.

 

[prog rocker]

Okay, here's what I think about the finds:

-The first Capumon logo is giving me more or less Dragon Ball vibes, which is not weird seeing how Sugimori's original art style looked similar to Toriyama's. The second one makes me think that Rhydon might have been the mascot at one point. Wouldn't be weird since he was the first Pokémon created.

-Omega still looks kinda like a robotic Dragonite. Too bad it got cut early in development.

-Gyaoon still gives me Tyranitar vibes, which would mean that Tyranitar was cut from Gen I, included as not-exactly a Pokémon for that one magazine, and then finally included in final Gold.

-The unused Nido is... bizarre to say the least. Maybe there was only one Nido line? Or maybe that one thing we saw in a Capumon pitch page?

-Balloonda is still as simple as ever.

-The yeti seems like it would have fit the Ice/Fire/Lightning trio until they gave that spot to Jynx. Or maybe Jynx was going to be its female counterpart. Was possibly mentioned in the Tajiri manga.

-The deer doesn't have anything that wasn't shown before.

-Nothing new on beta elephant.

-Crocky got a slight redesign, apparently, since now it doesn't have hair.

-The octopi kinda looks like that one Blooper from Super Mario Sunshine. I find it kinda suspicious, but maybe it has an actual explanation like beta Porygon2 had.

-Also nothing new on the cactus Pokémon.

-Nothing new on beta Sharpedo.

-Oh hey, Zubat was supposed to get a pre-evolution. Sadly, thanks to all those years of playing Pokémon I can only feel glad that it got cut. Also, I find it funny how they decided to do the opposite thing in Gen II.

-Two fish Pokémon, one looks like a Cheep Cheep. I wonder if they were planning to make Pokémon based on the Mario series as a tribute/thank you to Miyamoto?

-Dammit GF! You had to cut Mikon twice, did you?

-So, they don't know what those sprites are? And they are not Kokana, and the other bug? I'm starting to dislike the donor...

-Hey, we were going to get water lizards. I agree with the fact that the last evolution looks like something from Bubble Bobble.

-Was 115 the turkey-like Pokémon? I can't remember.

-121 is still missing sadly.

-Psyduck was going to get an evolution that evolved into Golduck. I don't know what to think besides that it looks... simpler.

-Meowth's pre-evo was also cut twice. Dammit, Game Freak!

-According to Helix Chamber, Weezing might have been here at one point. So, yay?

-Hey, Gyaoon was going to have a pre-evolution. It does resemble a little bit the Substitute doll.

-Maybe a beta Magnezone?

-My God! The "Cubone is related to Kangaskhan" guys were not crazy! I like the fact that it's separate from Kangaskhan but that only adds more questions than answers.

-Gyopin was also cut twice. Come to think of it, most of the "cut twice" Pokémon were pre-evolutions.

-Kotora is here! And apparently, the evolution was called Gaotora instead of Raitora like in the Spaceworld demo. Not only that, it was supposed to have a third stage called Gorotora. This keeps getting sadder and sadder.

-Another cut baby, now it's Puchikon.

-Blastoise's original pre-evolution. Apparently, it had bubble blowers instead of cannons. I need to see the front sprite.

-Gorochu is also here, but not much is shown. I still don't buy the "balance reasons" they gave for its removal.

-It's Wartortle's original evolution. It actually fits better than Blastoise.

-Beta Red looks pretty weird, like a non-chibified Power Pro-kun, I also find it kinda weird that he was going to get a whip at one point.

-The Student looks pretty ugly, in my opinion.

-A... robot trainer? I really need to know the context of this one.

-The Firefighter trainer looks like a kid here. It was apparently replaced with the Psychic class. Got reused for Gen VII.

-Yujiro (beta first Gym Leader) looked like a Youngster at first and had a Capumon shirt. The second one had the same pose as Giovanni. I read once that he was supposed to be a Bug Gym Leader, but I can't remember where.

-Beta Brock used to look like a mix between Goten and Trunks from Dragon Ball and his name was Ichitaro. Judging by his teams, he was a Ground-Type Leader, which might explain why the Camper in his Gym uses that type.

-There was a trainer that looked like a mini-Red. Helix Chamber seems to think that he was possibly Blue's brother, but I think he might be Red's. I wonder why they keep removing the siblings from the game.

-We were supposed to get a father? Also, a Virtual Boy.

-Sadly, the found no traces of Akane*.

-Apparently, Clefairy was the only Pokémon that evolved with an item at the time.

*Akane is what I'm going to call the unused female protanist from now on.

EDIT: Thanks @Unown Seer for pointing out I forgot to explain who I named Akane.

 

[Silktree]

@prog rocker Who's Akane?

 

[prog rocker]

@prog rocker Who's Akane?

I forgot to clarify that it is what I call the beta female protagonist. "Aka" if I recall correctly means Red in Japanese so I thought it was a fitting name. Thanks for pointing this out!

 

[El_]

Don't forget that these teams came after the major changes had been made. Originally, Giovanni wasn't a gym leader at all, and Yujirou was the Viridian gym leader. I don't think that we have any hint of his specialty, but Helix Chamber gave him a Lickitung for that hack.

Very possible. In fact... I've just checked move files, and Lick was Ground-type! They could have still given Agatha Flying/Ground, Bug or Normal as a specialty, though. It's odd that her Vaporeon disappeared in the second version.

But Psyduck never evolved, and I don't think that would have changed. It was too marketable.

Lick, Ground? I guess it was just there as a placeholder till things got figured out with Ghost, but I'd figure Normal had Ghost not been added in. I find it odd that Tangela was included at all, and then out switched for Tauros, but perhaps her overall concept was not finalized yet.

Yeah... I had the episode "Bye Bye Psyduck" on my mind and literally forgot that Golduck was a wild one. I haven't followed the anime in a while lol

Okay, here's what I think about the finds:

-The unused Nido is... bizarre to say the least. Maybe there was only one Nido line? Or maybe that one thing we saw in a Capumon pitch page?

Doesn't it kinda look like a cross between Nidorino & Nidorina? Maybe the gender difference didn't exist at first, and like you suggested there was only a gender neutral line.

-We were supposed to get a father? Also, a Virtual Boy.

Thank Arceus we got neither.

 

[SerenaToAlola]

seaweed longevity theme

huh what? Seaweed?

 

[prog rocker]

Thank Arceus we got neither.

I understand why you wouldn't want a Virtual Boy, but why don't you want a father?

 

[Silktree]

Speaking of names, it seems that Red was originally called Yuuichi? I assume Helix Chamber didn't make that up, unlike most of the Pokemon names.

 

[prog rocker]

Speaking of names, it seems that Red was originally called Yuuichi? I assume Helix Chamber didn't make that up, unlike most of the Pokemon names.

Yup, it seems that way. Then again, Red only got an official name through GSC, and even then it was a late change since his Spaceworld name was Blue.