Review JN064: The Detested Absol

[Keith]

Isn't there also that Absol was pushed up into the air by the geyser, meaning it was also at risk of falling onto rocky ground and getting seriously injured or even dying from that?

It was better off falling

 

[Keith]

After reading through every post in here, I’m glad I didn’t watch the episode. After the Suicune episode, I realized the only way I’m going to be able to put up with the rest of Journeys is if I skip all the Goh-focused episodes. It sucks because I’ll probably miss out on a huge chunk of the series (visually), but I’ve tolerated enough.

I didn’t expect (or hope) Ash would catch Absol though. I just want my King to stop being a side piece to that know-it-all writers’ pet.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

Yeah, this wasn't that good of an episode. Hodge's appearance didn't amount to anything, resulting in him feeling like any other CoTD. I was hoping to see a rivalry between him and Ash really develop. Also, as things go for any Goh episode, Ash is largely irrelevant or doesn't have a Pokemon other than Pikachu with him. And of course Goh's first instinct is to catch Absol to save it rather than having something like Cinderace save it, or even have Ash use Dragonite to save it. Yeah, yeah. I get it. He's just trying to do what's best for the Pokemon, but its so annoying that his first instinct all the time is to catch it. So yeah, typical Goh episode.

 

[Rainbow-Rain]

Maybe because those said 'iconic' Pokemon get completely sidelined outside of obligatory 'focus' episodes and battles, and aren't seen for lengths at a time much less the interactivity between them and organic development for them?

They're usually sidelined in favor of situations that would benefit Goh, just look at this episode (much less many other examples) on how Ash wasn't allowed a different Pokemon that would have resulted in a more optimal resolution to the problem (which would unironically mean that Absol would be drawn towards Ash).

Tell me, when was the last time Gengar was written in a way that allowed it to be relevant? The writers are definitely aware of this problem they created, they referenced it in one of the recent episodes where it scares Koharu and Renji. And yet instead of fixing/alleviating it, they continue to pile on top of it and make it worse.

But then complaining about Ash's Pokemon getting sidelined only brings forth the question of why you'd want Ash to catch any more Pokemon in the first place?

If they can't even balance the 6 he already has then what's the point of adding even more Pokemon to his team that will result in even more neglecting?

 

[Keith]

But then complaining about Ash's Pokemon getting sidelined only brings forth the question of why you'd want Ash to catch any more Pokemon in the first place?

If they can't even balance the 6 he already has then what's the point of adding even more Pokemon to his team that will result in even more neglecting?

They can balance his current team. They just don’t care to.

 

[GrookeyFan77]

This episode was pointless and boring imo. I didn't care about who caught Absol since I don't really care about him anyway. But the fact that Absol choose to stay with Goh without any bonding was bad. At least Goh bonded with Suicune before it choose to join him.

 

[Unireon]

At least those who dropped, or skipped, missed the Cursed No-eyed Monkey.

I had to rewatch, with subs this time. I admit that.
Another thing to add to the pile of bad quality animation in this series.

 

[Vulpes Incarnatus]

But then complaining about Ash's Pokemon getting sidelined only brings forth the question of why you'd want Ash to catch any more Pokemon in the first place?

If they can't even balance the 6 he already has then what's the point of adding even more Pokemon to his team that will result in even more neglecting?

I... never said anything about Ash capturing Absol? Where did you gather that from? o.0

My complaints were more about the poor handling of Ash (and his lack of other party members) and how he's treated as a drone for the most part in this episode (when the opposite rarely happens in Ash episodes, there's also the fact that last episode showed how multiple characters can get focus without the main focus being shafted or intruded upon), and how everything completely works in favor of Goh through bent worldbuilding and contrived writing.

They can balance his current team. They just don’t care to.

EDIT: And this. There are literally so many moments I can pinpoint where his current team can see usage in a multitude of ways, which the writers don't bother with.

 

[nickdt]

. It’s like having a protagonist that can have nothing wrong happen to them in a way.

Oh look, thats the definition of a creators/writers pet.

 

[Queen Cynthia]

Wow, this thread is getting hard to follow Reminds me of that heated discussion after the Suicune episode that must have been one of the longest review threads I've seen here for years.
Anyways, back to topic.

In battle, you can't avoid to get hurt. But this wasn't a battle. Here, it was possible to escape the situation without getting hurt, and Goh resorted to a method that allowed exactly that.

Sure, you can! You can simply avoid battling if you're so concerned something bad might happen
My point still stands: If the worst thing that can happen in a Pokemon battle full of electric shocks, blades, fire, beams of massive energy etc. that the Pokemon faints and gets swirly eyes, then the show is just not consequent here. Why should we worry about Absol being hurt in real life, when Pokemon attacks in battle are probably much stronger than a burst of hot steam? I can't help thinking they unintentionally created a logical dilemma here.

As for the Pokeball rescue discussion: I have to admit there was another episode where that strqtegy was applied. Back then, Lance of all people decided to catch the red Gyarados in order to rescue it from Team Rocket. So, yes that might seem to be a point for the supporters of the Pokeball rescue idea. Still, I think you can't really compare Go to the great Lance. For the latter it seemed to be the last resort and I highly doubt it's Lance's usual strategy to catch Pokemon that way. It was an exceptional situation, nothing more.
In the case of Go, it's a completely different situation. We know his goal is to catch all Pokemon. Most of them end up as mere trophies at Sakuragi Institute. I seems what he cares about most is getting the dex entry but he doesn't care for most of his Pokemon after catching them. So, considering that first, Go sees Pokemon mainly as "tools" and second, that he used the Pokeball rescue strategy twice in a row kind of leaves a bitter aftertaste. It's not that the idea is bad per se, it's Go's background and how he makes that startegy a regular habit that make it appear bad.

 

[90'sPokéfan]

Next to Ash and Cyndaquil and Lance and the Red Gyarados which were mentionned already, I think the most known and clear example in the OS was Brock and Pineco. Brock caught it with a Fast Ball to remove and protect it from it's fight with TRio and Arbok. (Although, he already was interested in catching a Pineco.)

And to a lesser extend Ash tried to do this with the Scyther Tracey would catch. However, this pokémon was already wounded and needed medical attention in a Pokémon Centre since it refuced potions. And in the end Ash failed to catch it and Tracey had to 'fight' it, using Venonat's sleep powder.

I guess we will see what the future will hold for this method of catching pokémon going forwards. If the writers mix it up and don't overuse it, it can be good. If it is almost the same every time it is used, it will become stale pretty fast.

 

[swiftgallade46]

I think he had no choice but to catch it to save it and his intentions were pure. If you don’t like that, then that’s a valid opinion, but that’s just how it was written. Goh just isn’t malicious.

 

[VetProf]

I think he had no choice but to catch it to save it and his intentions were pure. If you don’t like that, then that’s a valid opinion, but that’s just how it was written. Goh just isn’t malicious.

I think most people can agree that Gou isn't being intentionally malicious when he catches Pokemon to save them. It's just that his actions can come across as being greedy or selfish from an out-of-universe perspective due to the stark contrast between Gou's values as a character and many of the core values that have been upheld in the anime for a long time.

Unfortunately, this is a fairly common problem when it comes to discussions about Gou, since most of the issues that people have with his character originate from the exact same source: Gou's goal of wanting to capture every single Pokemon species in the world. Because of this, a majority of arguments and complaints regarding Gou essentially boil down to "Gou is a bad character because he catches Pokemon very often", and frankly, this kinda discourages me from participating in these kinds of discussions nowadays since they're almost always complaining about the same thing over and over again. There's a reason I no longer complain about the Gatchat machine every single time it appears, even if I still hate the darn thing. Just like the Gatchat machine, Gou's habit of catching Pokemon feels like one of the few core elements of the series that will absolutely not change throughout the series, so complaining about them seems useless, and whining about the issues that these elements cause just gets progressively tiring every time someone brings them up.

So yeah, I'm not gonna argue whether Gou saving Pokemon from danger by catching them is a good thing or not from an out-of-universe perspective, since there's already plenty of people discussing about it in this thread. All I'm gonna say is that rescuing Pokemon by catching them with a Pokeball is something that's perfectly in-character for Gou to do, makes a decent amount of sense given the circumstances, and definitely doesn't mean Gou is a malicious person for doing so as long as he offers to release them afterwards.

 

[jbmasta]

Ash contributes nothing to this episode, as least as an individual. None of the character interactions require Ash to be him or have his history, which is odd because he’s been to Lavaridge and Mt Chimney, and he has no impact on the plot because Goh works everything out. Pikachu and Cinderace make no damage to the rock until Absol comes to use Razor Wind on it. This is why Flannery should have been the one to call Ash and Goh in, she’s met and battled Ash before, and can attest to his problem solving skills as she’s seen him solve issues and come up with battle strategies. She’s also the gym leader. Pikachu’s sole contribution, a series of ineffective Thundershocks, are irrelevant. Even Grookey gets the Lavaridge locals being curious about it. You could cut Ash out of the episode and lose nothing.

 

[swiftgallade46]

I think most people can agree that Gou isn't being intentionally malicious when he catches Pokemon to save them. It's just that his actions can come across as being greedy or selfish from an out-of-universe perspective due to the stark contrast between Gou's values as a character and many of the core values that have been upheld in the anime for a long time.

Unfortunately, this is a fairly common problem when it comes to discussions about Gou, since most of the issues that people have with his character originate from the exact same source: Gou's goal of wanting to capture every single Pokemon species in the world. Because of this, a majority of arguments and complaints regarding Gou essentially boil down to "Gou is a bad character because he catches Pokemon very often", and frankly, this kinda discourages me from participating in these kinds of discussions nowadays since they're almost always complaining about the same thing over and over again. There's a reason I no longer complain about the Gatchat machine every single time it appears, even if I still hate the darn thing. Just like the Gatchat machine, Gou's habit of catching Pokemon feels like one of the few core elements of the series that will absolutely not change throughout the series, so complaining about them seems useless, and whining about the issues that these elements cause just gets progressively tiring every time someone brings them up.

So yeah, I'm not gonna argue whether Gou saving Pokemon from danger by catching them is a good thing or not from an out-of-universe perspective, since there's already plenty of people discussing about it in this thread. All I'm gonna say is that rescuing Pokemon by catching them with a Pokeball is something that's perfectly in-character for Gou to do, makes a decent amount of sense given the circumstances, and definitely doesn't mean Gou is a malicious person for doing so as long as he offers to release them afterwards.

I think that’s totally fair, and I’ve said many times that Goh had his share of flaws and that there are plenty of reasonable negative opinions about him. But I have seen many people claiming he’s being malicious or just being very insistent that he is an awful character, as you’ve pointed out.

I totally feel you on often abstaining from discussions. I’m a mod here and even I was hesitant to post any sort of defense of Goh because I didn’t want to face several pages of discussion (which, actually was fine this time around so far. So credit where credit is due, I suppose).

I will also say that to me personally, Goh’s goal is probably one my favorite things about him. I’ve mentioned it before, but as someone who catches and collects Pokémon in the games as my main goal, it makes it more relatable. I never thought I’d see the day where a character in the show would actually be trying to do the same thing. I don’t find him to be “greedy” or “selfish” because I think that’s just headcanon. Headcanon’s are valid, mind you, but it just isn’t how he is actually characterized in the show, and that’s what I base my opinion of him on.

For example, it’s totally valid to say “he caught Absol to add it to his Pokédex; not to save it. Therefore he is greedy/selfish”, but personally I just don’t think that’s at all how the show intended it to be interpreted at all. And it’s tough not to see all the insults etc. thrown at him and not make the assumption that these interpretations are sometimes (not always!) rooted in bias against the character or even just going along with what the majority seems to be saying.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

But I have seen many people claiming he’s being malicious or just being very insistent that he is an awful character, as you’ve pointed out.

This entire debate on this thread was kick started by a person clearing it wasn’t malicious though...

 

[Queen Cynthia]

If you don’t like that, then that’s a valid opinion, but that’s just how it was written

Well, I guess then it simply is bad writing.

Because of this, a majority of arguments and complaints regarding Gou essentially boil down to "Gou is a bad character because he catches Pokemon very often",

I'd not say "because he catches Pokemon often" but because his goal of catching every Pokemon to understand them better and to finally be able to get to Mew just doesn't make sense. You know, if he really wanted to understand Pokemon better, he could just live with every Pokemon there is for a while (just like for example Dian Fossey ) No need to catch them, no need to take them way from their natural habitat and dump them as mere souvernirs in an artificial environment behind walls of glass (Sakuragi Institute).
To make things worse, he catches Pokemon in the cheapest way imaginable. Just throwing Pokeballs at them (not all but most of them) contradicts everything we've seen in the history of the Anime. So far, trainers and collectors alike had to "earn" the Pokemon they wanted to catch by battling them fair and square.

and whining about the issues that these elements cause just gets progressively tiring every time someone brings them up.

Although I do understand what you mean, I don't think it's because people are whining about it, but it's actually Go himself and the flawed concept behind his character that gets tiring.

 

[swiftgallade46]

This entire debate on this thread was kick started by a person clearing it wasn’t malicious though...

I wasn’t referring to any specific debate, though? I was just referring to different things I’ve read.

Well, I guess then it simply is bad writing.

You would have preferred that they purposely wrote him to be malicious and greedy?

 

[KenzeyEevee]

For the last 20 years I always learnt that you must have a bond with your pokemon before you can catch it.

Now there is Gou that catches most pokemon without bonding.

I dont hate Gou nor his character. I hate his methods. It is conflicting compared to the past 20 years.

 

[Enzo]

I wasn’t referring to any specific debate, though? I was just referring to different things I’ve read.

But the things you've read here were all originated from the debate I created tho?

I literally said more than once than Goh wasn't malicious...

I don't think Goh does it out of malice or with bad intentions tbh

And as I said, I don't see Goh as an bad guy for it