Mafia Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Mafia - Endgame (Looking Stupid Joker!)

[Kaiveran]

well, I didn't get back here in nearly as timely a manner as I expected...sorry for that!

there's been a lot of people quoting one of my posts (possibly a quote chain) so I'm assuming there's some important discourse there? let's see

 

[FinalArcadia]

When I see a player posting before the game starts, I think "oh yeah this guy will definitely be more active if they are so hyped". It would make more sense to vote that player if they took a long time to show up. FinalArcadia even knows my timezone, so she would understand that I wouldn't be awake at the beginning too, so her joke vote on me doesn't really end up helping the game to move much from one thing to another and it feels "safe". TBF I admit I am probably just being paranoid about this, but what rubbed me the wrong way is that they spent effort in supporting leetic! but then basically give me no time to prove my activity. I feel that a Town trying to gamesolve would look for potentially slacking or more interesting players who haven't shown any emotion or post after their confirming post.

My vote had nothing to do with your pre-D1 post though, I think that's the misunderstanding here. It literally did not cross my mind for even a second when I made that vote and I hadn't thought anything of your leetic vote other than that it was just a joke to break the ice in here before the game began. It was just some fun over you explicitly wanting characters who the setup requires to be mafia if they are here.

oh don't worry i do that as Mafia too that's why most people hate me here

hey, the guessing on if you're doing it as town or mafia keeps us all on our toes, it's an important ingredient to the mystery of mafia games here lol

It was odd to me because I don't see DawningWinds get that frustrated. From my experience with DW, he often keeps his cool under pressure, whereas, in this instance, he didn't.

Are there many games were someone keeps pressing on a singular topic though? Like, I like to think I keep my cool in games at least in appearances but I totally get letting some annoyance seep out over getting asked about something that wasn't even all that pressing, repeatedly.

It's not just I don't agree. I think his read on me inconsistent within itself, I think the read on Kai is OMGUS-y, I think there's something off about the calling SM scum based on nothing. Yes, its somewhat subjective, yes, my read on you is much more objective. Yes, I could vote you, or SM, but I'm giving SM more time to get into the game as I've already said, and you're I think the leading wagon anyway so there's not really a reason for me not to press other scumreads less than halfway through the first day.

While I can sort of understand what you're saying about the Soulmaster read (though Reiji said it was slight scumlean), I don't see the Kai one and vote as OMGUS. What do you think about this part of their reasoning:

Being in the same position as em, I am a little uncertain why this was glossed over. Sure ey don't have meta, but surely there's something ey could glean from it regardless?

Ey go on to mention voting someone for no activity, however then mention that it goes against the spirit of the game to use something to determine activity. I don't like this approach to an "easy" vote, again in games I am in a lot of the time this normally turns into said person being scum and outed.

That Kaiveran hadn't returned yet and did kinda take the easy route out with the Reiji vote and the meta thing, the reasoning makes sense beyond OMGUS.

 

[TheCapsFan]

Yeah, it is a bit much. Don't know if you've noticed, but overreacting's something I do.

Not really, no... I guess my opinions of your meta is different than that of your own. If that's really how you feel, then I concede to your better judgement, and we can probably drop the discussion regarding your reactions to leetic. If people still want to scumread me for my assessment of your reactions, that's fair, but I'm going to stop talking about it as I feel like I've been typing in circles for the last hour.

It's not just I don't agree. I think his read on me inconsistent within itself, I think the read on Kai is OMGUS-y, I think there's something off about the calling SM scum based on nothing. Yes, its somewhat subjective, yes, my read on you is much more objective. Yes, I could vote you, or SM, but I'm giving SM more time to get into the game as I've already said, and you're I think the leading wagon anyway so there's not really a reason for me not to press other scumreads less than halfway through the first day.

I don't think that his read on you is inconsistent, he's putting more emphasis on how you reacted to the votes on you, which is why he went with a town lean at the end. I agree that the read on Kai is OMGUS-y. As for the SM read, I can see where you're coming from regarding your opinions earlier on the GTh read, but then a couple posts after his readslist, SM came in thread for the second time and Reiji doubled down on the read based on that content, so in hindsight it doesn't really matter too much to me. I think a vote on SM for pressure would have made more sense after what you've put in that readslist regardless of whether or not you are waiting for him to get into the game more.

Speaking of voting SM for pressure, I think it's about time I bussed my scumbuddy.

[UNVOTE]: DawningWinds
[VOTE]: Soulmaster

In a game where there had been 120 posts prior to you coming in for the second time today, I think it's absurd that you don't have literally any thoughts on anyone else. I'd like to see your reads, please.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Reiji is primarily a Discord mafia player, so I can understand how a platform that's not as accessible, immediate, or bite-sized as Discord might require him more time to backread and respond.

Yet another unnatural-looking post from Caps. If RJ is a Discord player, then I'd expect them to engage more with people in real time. That would just make their opener look more awkward, not less.

Also quit it with the lolcatting, as I explained earlier town can likely afford only one mislynch and a refusal to seriously come to terms with that makes you look bad.

 

[Kaiveran]

Not gonna be able to go too in-depth due to time constraints, but lets give it a try

as much as I dislike quote-walls myself, it looks like @HumanDawn on p5 is truly trying to get their ducks in a row via ISOs. To answer your question: it was more a matter of putting those two in my votepool rather than making a definite statement about one or both being wolves. Given that leetic was already on Caps, and my previous mention of target diversity, I thought Reiji was the most productive option at that time.

I feel out of everyone who has posted so far, Soulmaster has presented by far the least reason to read him as town. Even if he acts similarly as town, that's not a playstyle that is difficult to replicate as scum at all. If enough town find each other, then scum will have nowhere to hide.

For a little bit of mechanical discussion, I think the existence of the independent is worth keeping in mind. This is because it means that it is most likely that town can only afford to mislynch one townie, as 2-2-1 would be a mafia victory in most scenarios. A serial killer is unlikely in a setup this small, and since it doesn't say the game is bastard a cult is likely out of the question, so it's most likely that we're dealing with some kind of survivor, lyncher, or jester. Keeping this in mind, we have to be very careful this game.

goes back to sleep

I don't disagree with the bolded, but in the game I played with him...I can't go into specific details because that would fall afoul of a rule that people can and have been punished for breaking offsite. But suffice it to say that I'm quite reluctant to compromise on him.

I think we're definitely dealing with a Survivor-like in this game, which means...sure, we're gonna have to be careful after voting out a townie, but given that the eventual hammers require a supermajority and the game is NOC - even if there happened to be TvT votes in this situation - for Wolves + 3P to rush onto it for the win would require an unlikely level of coordination, and if someone thwarts it with an unvote then 3P has really f'd their chances by associating with wolves. So I wouldn't sweat it too much (unless this site subscribes to the Gospel of MafiaScum and dictates all 3Ps must die.)

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

It was odd to me because I don't see DawningWinds get that frustrated. From my experience with DW, he often keeps his cool under pressure, whereas, in this instance, he didn't.

Why would DW getting frustrated be indicative of his alignment? If it's different than before, has he dealt with a player as annoying as me in the past? Different does not equal scum

 

[Kaiveran]

bah, i haven't got to the important bit, but i gotta leave now or else i;ll be late

i have bulba on my phone so i'll TRY to read up, but considering i work in foodservice and its a staturday, i make no promises.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

HD is null for me right now, dude. And fine, if we want to include his pre-D1 posts in my read of HD, then he's still null. It was just a standard RVS vote, if I remember correctly. I just thought it was weird that he expected people to read him with his prior posts in consideration, I mean, I didn't. Quit putting words in my mouth please

Calling someone "weird" is clearly an attempt at shading. Maybe you want to jump off of it after I called it out, but be honest please.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

My vote had nothing to do with your pre-D1 post though, I think that's the misunderstanding here. It literally did not cross my mind for even a second when I made that vote and I hadn't thought anything of your leetic vote other than that it was just a joke to break the ice in here before the game began. It was just some fun over you explicitly wanting characters who the setup requires to be mafia if they are here.

hey, the guessing on if you're doing it as town or mafia keeps us all on our toes, it's an important ingredient to the mystery of mafia games here lol

Are there many games were someone keeps pressing on a singular topic though? Like, I like to think I keep my cool in games at least in appearances but I totally get letting some annoyance seep out over getting asked about something that wasn't even all that pressing, repeatedly.

While I can sort of understand what you're saying about the Soulmaster read (though Reiji said it was slight scumlean), I don't see the Kai one and vote as OMGUS. What do you think about this part of their reasoning:

That Kaiveran hadn't returned yet and did kinda take the easy route out with the Reiji vote and the meta thing, the reasoning makes sense beyond OMGUS.

Can you directly summarize your thoughts on the gamestate (who you think is town/mafia, etc.)? Doing so would make it easier for me to read you

 

[DawningWinds]

unless this site subscribes to the Gospel of MafiaScum and dictates all 3Ps must die

I think most people here tend to be okay with friendly 3Ps, though there definitely are people who subscribe to "kill all the independents", I don't think any of the Bulba-natives in this game would be prone to that?

While I do agree a Survivor ITP would mostly make the most sense in a setup this size, it kinda strikes me as odd flavour-wise with the character being Pirahna Plant, a character, who, in my somewhat limited Mario experience, kinda just sit there and kills whatever walks by? I'm definitely not really familiar with it in Smash though so if there's a reason for it to make sense as a Survivor or similar please correct me on this.

That Kaiveran hadn't returned yet and did kinda take the easy route out with the Reiji vote and the meta thing, the reasoning makes sense beyond OMGUS.

I'm not really getting the meta thing? As for taking the easy route with a no-poster vote, I sorta agree that that's what Kai did, but I feel like I've seen this enough times from both town and Mafia that it feels like a pretty eh push.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

I don't think a team of Caps and HD should be fully eliminated as a possibility.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

I'd say that SM, RJ, and HD are the most likely partners in a scum!Caps world

 

[TheCapsFan]

Yet another unnatural-looking post from Caps. If RJ is a Discord player, then I'd expect them to engage more with people in real time. That would just make their opener look more awkward, not less.

People have different meta on different sites. I play differently here than I do on discord, I expect Reiji to do the same.

Also quit it with the lolcatting, as I explained earlier town can likely afford only one mislynch and a refusal to seriously come to terms with that makes you look bad.

 

[TheCapsFan]

Leetic, it’s just a game. I’m just having fun. If you don’t like it, play somewhere else.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Oh yeah, you did reference people's activity thingies a few times.

Me, I've never been one to status stalk, even when the tools for such are available. It's against the spirit of the game in my view. There's also still a lot more time in the Day.

On further thought, I also find it pretty suspicious that we have exactly two 0-posters as of now, with two wolves in the game. Being in a 2-person team can be very intimidating to a wolf, because they no longer have access to any of the PR-management strategies that come with normal 3- or 4-wolf teams. You have to take a solid stance on your partner and/or reap the consequences of said stance if they flip/get seered/what have you. Given that HD and Soul have given us at least token posts of appreciation for the game, it's not at all improbable that we have at least one wolf in Caps + Reiji.

(And with that, I think I'll take my leave for now. I'll be able to fit some more playtime in midday tomorrow.)

While I don't agree with eir vote on RJ, I do agree with the principle that a lot of activity from town is likely to intimidate the scum team into inactivity. (It was just that voting for someone who wasn't even online yet is not the right way to follow through with these reads)

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Leetic, it’s just a game. I’m just having fun. If you don’t like it, play somewhere else.

At least stop with deliberately trying to play into confirmation bias, you know that it makes it more difficult for me to read you, and if you get mislynched for that it would be your fault as much as my own

Response to activity in that manner is scummy, since it indicates to me that you're not fully comfortable with the threadstate. Despite everything, I know that I'm having fun here

 

[Reiji]

So I'll just address a few things first before then going back proper through what's happened since I last posted:

This is probably the best post in the entire game. Do you want an Awaaaard?

Reiji, by wacky, do you mean that Fire Emblem Mafia? Me fakeclaiming Independent as Town was a one time thing (and it backfired anyway because I was so active the Mafia wanted to NK anyway LOL). Where you Mafia in that game? I recall you being Mafia in that game and giving you lots of slack I think when you were ultimately Mafia, I'm not sure, but if you were Mafia, then from what little I remember (if I'm remembering right because that was ages ago), you're giving me a much higher positive impression based on just this post alone.

Yes, I was in the FE game (although not for long, I was part of the scum team that decided to out its members because someone "couldn't lie") and the small bit I remember was, for me, absolutely wild. But yes, you were remembering right and thank you for that award, I'll hang it above my bed for safekeeping <3.

Yet another unnatural-looking post from Caps. If RJ is a Discord player, then I'd expect them to engage more with people in real time. That would just make their opener look more awkward, not less.

Also quit it with the lolcatting, as I explained earlier town can likely afford only one mislynch and a refusal to seriously come to terms with that makes you look bad.

You did mention a few times regarding activity - yes I mostly play on Discord and that doesn't mean all I do is sit here all day waiting for you to post; I will react to what I see when I go into the channel or in this case thread - Discord games I play in tend to be a lot more jumping in and out and replying to short phrases etc, as opposed to the larger and sometimes several posts by the same player that I have to read and analyse. If you don't like that then I'm sorry but I would like a different angle of sus rather than I am not as active as you. The point on Caps here tbh is a no-goer from the start.

You really do like it being your way or the highway, haha.

Reiji - Honestly? I don't like a number of his reads. His read on me doesn't seem to line up with what he's saying, most of the words look like it should be a scumlean, but he has me as null-town. Not a fan the read on Soulmaster, either, and something about his Kai read strikes me as more OMGUS than actual analysis. I can't really put my finger on the reasons behind those latter two reads.
Vote: Reiji

Would you care to elaborate? What reads and why? More than happy to go into more details, but I think I explained myself adequately enough. Just like I explained that I am UNSURE (read: not the same as saying you are scum) on your actions. Sure, you started off not great but the way you behaved against the votes/pressure is what is not making me just jump to scum straight away and even now I'm a little unsure. Voting me because of your understanding seems a little weak - is there a way to request vote totals at all? I would be interested to see if DW has just tried to tie me up with someone else that's on more than 1 vote.

 

[neopest]

I'd say that SM, RJ, and HD are the most likely partners in a scum!Caps world

Kind of agree, I'd also add that Caps and DW don't seem partnered so I'd be inclined to townread one if the other was scum.

 

[neopest]

Also while I'm currently entertaining and exploring a HD/Caps team (I have some reason to believe this is plausible) I have reason to believe that there is a potential scum laying low. The reasoning behind this is that at times the thread has been quite volatile with arguments going back and forth for sometimes multiple posts/pages about the same topic but they seem largely confined between two people with others chiming in but not really committing to reads on these particular issues. To me that suggests that there is a very, very good possibility that scum is hanging back and letting us implode and that a lot of these arguments could be T/T.

Following this train of thought, it actually is a point in favor of HD being town.

 

[neopest]

With that being said, my most likely "targets" that fit that description would probably be SM, Kaiveran, and FinalArcadia. I'm actually feeling a bit better about DawningWind now that I've seen their reads posts mostly because the progression looks good in a way that basically boils down to: "scum often feel pressured to make reads in order to blend in but DawningWind refused to do that for multiple pages and then actually outed their own reads list on their own time and the reads list sounded decent/natural."