Mafia Fire in the Garden: Kanto Starters Mafia: Endgame, Bulbasaur Victory

[RavenRaziel98]

why not?

I was struggling already after my follow-up interaction with Zexy, and after thinking about the whole thing for a good amount of time, I felt like I should give it the benefit of the doubt. Doesn't exactly look great on my part I guess, but I'm rather sus then regretting not listening to my instinct for now.

 

[Midorikawa]

Your thoughts on my tinfoil? XD

Which one?

Ok I did not want to make this a meta argument because it is not technically part of the game but before it, yet I have to make it now

The reason I believe LICH, jaison, wissen and dawn are related starts as soon as the signup phase. Three new accounts with few posts, plus an old one that said "I was insisted by my friends to join", except despite being an old account I have not seen them around playing mafia before, their friends could not have been the old regulars... So who are their friends? Probably the people who show alongside them, have similar username formatting as them, similar posting style, the ones that joked with each other early on... Yeah I feel like all those people knew each other before the game started. And if they knew each other, they also would know that if one of them is scum and acts jumpy, the other would know.

jaison was lynched, wissen was subbed, conveniently dawn dusk was also killed... Who is now left without any acquintances that would get reads on them? LICH.

Problem is, I thought Caps was also smart enough to catch on to this connection and stage it too.

……..

Don't remember why I quoted this.

That’s me all the time.

Thinking about it now though, about 24hr removed from my last read I am wondering if maybe the act of voting jaison third is just in general NAI - finding it difficult to explain why. The fact of the matter is that when jamie voted there was no tie, but it prevented there from being a tie with someone else. So maybe Jamie just came in and voted whomever had the highest vote total just to vote. Which is actually more NAI to scummy, idk.

Point is, Gentlefeather still looks ok from EOD1

A tie breaker vote for info is NAI in general until there’s a mafia flip.

generally think it's likely the latter because they do seem to have some understanding of mafia concepts and have given some analysis. Maybe new to forums mafia but not new to something like One Night or IRL mafia. My problem with LICH KING is that they have had the same reads since the beginning of the game pretty much and have not really bothered to a) back them up or b) expand to other players.

You said he’s tunneling on you but I’ve seen more response to Zexy. And I feel like it’s both.

My thought process here was - I don't mind the pressure, but because I disagree with Pikochu's reasons for scumreading Snowy, I felt that the pressure was better placed elsewhere. Also it's weird that Pikochu gave reasons for scumreading Snowy and then explicitly said the vote was for pressure. Gives the vibe that Piko doesn't believe in the read.

Forgot why I quoted this. Phone has been a pain with quotin.

Is this insinuating a possible Piko/Snowy team?

No it was insinuating snowy being an easy mislynch.

can see how you would read it that way based on the tone. What I was trying to say with "Sounds reasonable to me" is that I felt that Snowy's vote was backed up by thought independent of Zexy. I.e., he wasn't trying to sheep or "parrot" or whateverWasn't trying to say anything about how I felt about Snowy's reasoning in general. I think that's where I think you're saying the red flags are coming from, feel free to clarify if wrong.

It was your translation of Snowys thoughts and the aggressive nature of the words.

Fair enough, though she did clarify that she voted specifically to prevent someone to make a tie at 2-2 because she thought a tie would end up in a no lynch.

Which is NAI. That an info tie breaker lynch.

The difference between you and LICH KING is that you are making cases and LICH KING is not. Sure, LICH KING is being definitive and whatever but LICH KING has also been tunneling on me from the beginning of the game, and gives little evidence to actually form a case on it. So I am somewhat biased because I'm annoyed that I'm getting tunneled on and I wonder if LICH KING actually giving thoughts on other players besides just me and Zexy, or at least providing evidence to form a case, would help me look past that bias and feel better about them.

Forcing reads still wouldn’t help. They would be disgenuine.

Bussing with a vote D1 vs bussing with a lynch D3 = two very different scenarios.

I don't think it's impossible, but I think in this specific gamestate scum have reason to be very eager to keep their partners alive, for reasons I explained in that post.

This whole part of my argument is very wifom-y so I don't want to dwell on it too much. I can understand why people solely at face value, and especially looking just at D1 could see Zexy and I as potential scumbuddies. But my point here is if you spend even one second thinking a little bit deeper about the gamestate it makes no fucking sense.

spent a long time trying to respond to this post but I think I can just sum it up this way -

Yes, it could be distancing for Zexy to say this, but a) Piko doesn't say that and b) from town!Piko's perspective with a scumread on me and Zexy, where I am a high priority target for Zexy next phase, it would not benefit us as partners to turn on each other when Zexy is

So I might as well group these together. If you’re going to argue wifom situations then don’t try to dismiss wifom situations. I’m the end they’re both wifom.

I stated in here, I stated that is there any more to gain from analyzing RVS at that point, which I thought there isn't.

It still doesn’t look good. There is always info to be gained. Granted we should make sure we’re reading the info correctly and that we’re not coming up with crazy theories (not talking about you)

Initial vote separate from the case, based on Zexy not saying who visited him. Not really going to count this as part of the case, but I still don't understand why this is scummy especially if he thinks they are more than likely to be town.

And regardless of whom it actually is, how Zexy is reading them, and regardless of Zexy's alignment I still think Zexy's visitor is mathematically more likely to be town.

How many times I have you seen people receive who visited them outside of a watcher role over just a general you were visited or something. To me it seems awfully convenient after the previous day phase lynch results.

There is some inconsistency with how Zexy treats wissen. Zexy has been noncommittal especially in his attempts to pressure. And I do think it is odd that Zexy didn't vote Snowy. There could be something there if Zexy is scum.

It’s more than slight inconsistency. There was also the way he avoided lynching him over jaison despite the clear logic that that would be the most informational.

And him admitting everything is just based on his own wild conjecture does not improve any of it. Not using legit in thread evidence and just guessing wildly is not townie.

Let me try to interpret - you don't want to make reads on the inactives because you don't think it's worth doing, you'd rather analyze based on what's in thread.

Zexy's defense (don't want to get too far into it now because I am running out of free time)


1) can be easily explained by what i literally just said in the quote above
2) is a valid point, but is deflecting.

Also me and mido scumbuddies lolololol. that is out of left field.


I can see the deflections. I would argue that the points about Zexy x Snowy are one part of your case but not the whole thing, rather than just a "possibility" but I won't put words in your mouth. There are some inconsistencies. This is a valid case.

Saying that he is trying to get you lynched is pretty farfetch'd though. He is voting Pikochu and hasn't expressed that he wants to lynch you today. Unless i missed it somewhere. That was also the bold part of his second defense that i skimmed, and I agree with that.

Of course he won’t come after me directly because I’ll tear him apart and he knows it. He’s afraid of me which is why he’s begged me during the phase and is constantly inserting in his posts that “my logic is bad” and I’m making a mistake and stuff. But the subtle pushing is there. And he really loves pairing Piko and I.

Also you misinterpreted him. As you noticed the case was not based on him and snowy and you could erase it and it’ll still be there. But he tried to say that my case was solely based on him and snowy being scum buddies.

Also on LICH it’s still inconsistent. Yes not as large as the weissen stuff but he still flip flopped in a matter of a few posts. For him to even say it was some trap to frame Lichen makes no sense yet he did and then went right back to LICH being mafia.

Also what do you think of what Raven brought up?

 

[Pikochu]

Also, please feel free to share your tinfoils. The situation is bad, I may be getting lynched in an hour and a bit, any point for or against me matters. Even if it is an angleshot. Just please don't make it something like "Zexy asked his buddy Snowy to sub out" because trust me I have thought that way too already.

mention of your exclamation marks and capital letters etc.

Wait what?

I don't remember the use of exclamation marks anywhere in my posts here. And the only instances of capital letters were initialism/backoymns/whatever the terms is for initials and this when I was merely using it in place of bolding because, well, I didn't think about using bolding at the time.

I'm honestly confused. I don't know whether at this point the tunneling on me has becoming to the point of gaslighting me on this game or you're really trying pretty hard to push a mislynch on me.

Except he was busy and said he was busy and you held that against him, but you do not like me holding that against you.

Zexy:

And yes, I realized the irony now and again, I should have known better not to do such a thing without at least pointing out the inactivity. Snowy would have then gotten a chance to explain his absence and we would have at least be done with it now.

Point is, I was a super confused townie before I started seeing the case on you BUT I KNEW IT

How can you be confused but not know?!?!?!

Again, because I was THAT confused. It may not be a good defense for you but it is a defense from me and that what has happened to me.

I honestly don't like you made a strong case against me and then proceed to gaslight me towards the end of the phase when you reasonably made your case to the game.

 

[Zexy]

How many times I have you seen people receive who visited them outside of a watcher role over just a general you were visited or something. To me it seems awfully convenient after the previous day phase lynch results.

It is super consistent with the idea of Worry Seed being a role and what the Insomniac role usually is. Do you really think scum!me would have made this up? If so, why? To attract unnecessary attention to myself? All I said is someone visited me, that does not make me look town on its own.

And him admitting everything is just based on his own wild conjecture does not improve any of it. Not using legit in thread evidence and just guessing wildly is not townie.

It is better than guessing randomly which is like the only other option for d1.

And he really loves pairing Piko and I.

... You paired me and Snowy first.

I'm honestly confused. I don't know whether at this point the tunneling on me has becoming to the point of gaslighting me on this game or you're really trying pretty hard to push a mislynch on me.

Gaslighting simply cannot be done since posts cannot be edited and deleted. The objective truth of what was written is staying there forever. If you feel gaslit because my argument is making you question the legitimacy of your own arguments, sorry but that is on you getting swayed, I am not trying to do it on you to push the case, I am just making the case. Everyone is feel free to judge it based on what is objectively there.

Again, because I was THAT confused. It may not be a good defense for you but it is a defense from me and that what has happened to me.

I honestly don't like you made a strong case against me and then proceed to gaslight me towards the end of the phase when you reasonably made your case to the game.

We agree to disagree. It really does not seem like a good defense to me, but there is no point arguing it.

Again with the gaslighting. This reads like appeal to emotion to me.

You cannot truly gaslight anyone in a game where editing and deleting posts is not allowed. The objective reality of what was written stays there forever. If one's views on their very own posts change based on what others comment on them, this is not gaslighting, it is being super unsure of your own cases.

 

[Pikochu]

Again with the gaslighting. This reads like appeal to emotion to me.

You cannot truly gaslight anyone in a game where editing and deleting posts is not allowed. The objective reality of what was written stays there forever. If one's views on their very own posts change based on what others comment on them, this is not gaslighting, it is being super unsure of your own cases.

I'm not disputing the facts of the game or the fact that I was confused or even about the fact that is a no edit game.

Point is, I was a super confused townie before I started seeing the case on you BUT I KNEW IT

How can you be confused but not know?!?!?!

Bold added by me.

The fact that you were trying to question why I didn't notice I was confused really rubbed me off the wrong way. I'm pretty sure that I was that confused that I didn't know that I was confused.

And to be fair, in hindsight, it should have been obvious as I was tired when making these posts. But I didn't and I should have noticed at the time.

 

[Zexy]

I really do not like where this game has gotten.

Of course he won’t come after me directly because I’ll tear him apart and he knows it. He’s afraid of me which is why he’s begged me during the phase and is constantly inserting in his posts that “my logic is bad” and I’m making a mistake and stuff. But the subtle pushing is there. And he really loves pairing Piko and I

I'm honestly confused. I don't know whether at this point the tunneling on me has becoming to the point of gaslighting me on this game or you're really trying pretty hard to push a mislynch on me.

I honestly don't like you made a strong case against me and then proceed to gaslight me towards the end of the phase when you reasonably made your case to the game.

The two main people against me have devolved their cases to calling me a coward and a gaslighter.

Meanwhile all I said to them is they might be either misguided town (which I do not say as an insult, so was I until yesterday), very cunning scum (if Mido is) or desperate (if Piko is).

At least Mido makes some arguments that make sense. I am intimidated by her, but because I do not believe I can format my posts in a way that will make me reason with her this game, not because I am super afraid that she will keep pushing wagons on me every phase. Honestly this interaction is so dysfunctonal I keep pushing it to the bottom of my priority list.

As for Piko, no hard feelings, no matter what you flip, and I really mean it. But to you I am a meanie gaslighter. If you somehow are town I owe you a huge apology, but when I flip town too you will probably feel just as bad. If you are scum lol haha no matter what happens.

 

[Zexy]

I'm not disputing the facts of the game or the fact that I was confused or even about the fact that is a no edit game.



Bold added by me.

The fact that you were trying to question why I didn't notice I was confused really rubbed me off the wrong way. I'm pretty sure that I was that confused that I didn't know that I was confused.

And to be fair, in hindsight, it should have been obvious as I was tired when making these posts. But I didn't and I should have noticed at the time.

Ah ok I see how you meant it now.

OK my bad this last confrontation was really not necessary and NAI all the way.

 

[DawningWinds]

Votes locked, update pending.

 

[Zexy]

MOMENT OF TRUTH

 

[DawningWinds]

Spoiler

1. @Pikochu
2. @Mint Elv
3. @ExLight
4. @JamieIsBored
5. @RavenRaziel98
6. @Zexy
7. @TheCapsFan
8. @Minish
9. @gentlefeather (sub requested and pending)
10. @LICH KING
13 @Elieson

(FT later as I'm on mobile)

Pikochu (4) - TheCapsFan, Zexy, ExLight, Minish
Zexy (3) - Mint Elv, Pikochu, LICH KING

Pikochu has fainted. He was a Charmander.

It is now Nigh 2. Night 2 will end at 4:00 PM CDT on June 11.

JamieIsBored has failed to post this Day. Failure to do so again may result in them being subbed out or modkilled.

 

[Zexy]

BOOM!

 

[Pikochu]

No hard feelings to anyone. I'll leave it at that until the end of the game.

I hope the Charmanders win! Go mafia!

 

[DawningWinds]

@Elieson
Accidentally broke his ping in the initial update whoops.

 

[ExLight]

atm I have my eyes on LICH

I'm not sure who else could pair with Pikochu, maybe Jamie or one of the players that subbed in (Ellie or Minish)?
Minish is famous for bussing and subbed in for Snowy who did not make a strong impression on me. Ellieson subbed in for wissen which is still a very (??) slot considering the day 1 actions.

I'll try to recheck the interactions Pikochu had with all those players D1 maybe.

 

[Zexy]

I need a break and some sleep (please do not Worry Seed me again lol), but I will post reads before night end, because I am not sure I will make it out alive.

 

[Zexy]

LICH, Minish and Mido are a good start really.

Raven is also another I would look into, he did vote for me to hopefully get more on me but when he saw Piko is on 4-4 he took the vote back. Keeping the No Lynch would look bad on him, going Piko would look too bus, simply removing would be the best lay low option.

Right now Caps is my top town obvs. ExLight also looks much better. Minish as much I would like to say yes, I did get puzzled by the last few points Caps brought. If Mido and Minish are both scum this was a super bold play, if it is LICH and one... Could go either way really.

Jamie I still feel town about, Piko wanted to learn if they have a role. But not a fan of the inactivity especially if it gets us a town modkilled.

 

[RavenRaziel98]

Raven is also another I would look into, he did vote for me to hopefully get more on me but when he saw Piko is on 4-4 he took the vote back.

Fair enough, I knew it would look weird. No regerts.
Unless I remember something wrong though (didn't check), I created a 3-3 by unvoting - which honestly just looks worse, ngl.

 

[Zexy]

Gotta get a bag of popcorn for the huge Mido post where somehow I am buddies with Piko

 

[Zexy]

Fair enough, I knew it would look weird. No regerts.
Unless I remember something wrong though (didn't check), I created a 3-3 by unvoting - which honestly just looks worse, ngl.

My brain is fried right now, sorry. Little sleep and a stress-anticipation-reward session does that.

 

[Midorikawa]

You paired me and Snowy first.

…What does that have to do with you pairing me and Piko?

It is better than guessing randomly which is like the only other option for d1.

No it’s not. There’s this thing called scum hunting based on actual in thread evidence. I know it may seem shocking but it’s really much better than coming up with some case based on the stuff that makes no sense.

LICH, Minish and Mido are a good start really.

Oh wow shocker. Pairing me with Piko again and now wanting to lynch me. And LICH to who also wanted to lynch you. Because all really trying to lynch someone like you is scummy.

If your town then this is your absolute worst town game ever.

Also why is Minish included in that? Because she voted Piko after reading the thread some? Piko went after Snowy too.

Raven is also another I would look into, he did vote for me to hopefully get more on me but when he saw Piko is on 4-4 he took the vote back. Keeping the No Lynch would look bad on him, going Piko would look too bus, simply removing would be the best lay low option.

Why would it look bad on him? What about the fact that everyone else would have been keeping it to? Why is it exclusively him that it would look bad on?

Jamie I still feel town about,

……..dude the guy just got an activity warning. You shouldn’t feel anything on him.

Gotta get a bag of popcorn for the huge Mido post where somehow I am buddies with Piko

……………….Zexy please stop acting like a child. That’s all I’m seeing from you at this point. Honestly if you’re going to play like a child whose feelings are hirt because someone found you scummy then I absolutely will not respond to you or acknowledge your posts because it’s a distraction in the game. I will concentrate on players that aren’t acting like butthurt children. You literally cannot go a post without saying something like “watch Mido turn this into this”.