Rocketshipping General Discussion

[musakoji718]

IIRC the dub version didn't have it either - Fans just misunderstood it wrong (and Bulbapedia is edited by fans themselves). Also, I'm pretty sure the writers have decided that the bike gang isn't canon anymore anyway (it's not a really important part of their pasts). I don't consider it canon myself, and I would be really surprised if they suddenly made it canon by mentioning it. There are episodes from Kanto that are simply just (meant to be?) forgotten.

Well, that at least clears that up, but I do feel a little put-off that I've been under the wrong impression for this long. (Would it be too dramatic to say that "everything I know is a lie"?:sweatlol But I guess it makes (slightly) more sense now. In that case, then I have another question: if we disregard the Sunny Town episode completely, does that mean that the first time they met was in the Housou episode?

Not sure if you have or have not seen the episode, but you should really check out DP146 subbed. Not only Kojiro entered a contest, but he also said he liked it in the end.

DP146...that was the one where he entered in place of Musashi, right? I read about it on Bulbapedia, but I don't think I saw the subbed version (I know it's bad, but I only watched the dubbed version so I could laugh at James' new VA attempting to sound feminine :lol. But if he said that he liked entering contests, then I guess it wouldn't be too odd for him to enter another one. Plus, it would double Musashi's shot at winning a ribbon, considering how Kojirou would end up giving her the ribbon if he did manage to win.

 

[Musashi]

They both (used to) get jealous whenever one of them would pay too much attention to someone else of the opposite sex, imo (but that could also be me reading between lines that don't exist :sweatlol.

Can you give any examples? I don't remember anything like this.

Because it even says on bulbapedia for episode 9 that they flunked out of Pokemon Tech.

Like Meron said, Bulbapedia is wrong. In both the English and Japanese versions they say they failed the entrance exam.

As for the bike gang, I assumed that they were a part of the gang (episode 36), but that could be just a misunderstanding on my part (and the parts of a bunch of other people :sweatlol.

The hoso seemed to retcon that. :/

Hm, that sounds like an interesting idea, but I can't see how that would give insight into how they feel about each other.

Just watch some Contest episodes. During the battle we always hear people's thought of what they think of the opponent. We could get some great stuff during the battle of how Musashi is surprised how strong Kojiro is and Kojiro could be thinking how good Musashi still is.

I was thinking they could get in some dumb fight and decide to settle it with a Contest. They're both so fired up to battle each other that they make it to the finals, but when they battle they realize how much fun they're having and they both still like each other and blah blah.

In that case, then I have another question: if we disregard the Sunny Town episode completely, does that mean that the first time they met was in the Housou episode?

That's how I've always viewed it.

 

[musakoji718]

Can you give any examples? I don't remember anything like this.

Well, like I said, it's probably me reading in-between lines that don't exist, but I remember one episode where Musashi was fawning over this doctor, and Kojirou didn't seem too pleased, and I've read "The Ghost of Maiden's Peak" as showing that Musashi's pretty possessive of Kojirou...stuff like that. Nothing big, probably me just pulling at strings. :sweatlol:

The hoso seemed to retcon that. :/

The problem is that I'd always thought that the Housou ep. was the one that was wrong, and not vice-versa. ^^;

Just watch some Contest episodes. During the battle we always hear people's thought of what they think of the opponent. We could get some great stuff during the battle of how Musashi is surprised how strong Kojiro is and Kojiro could be thinking how good Musashi still is.

I hadn't thought of it that way, but that makes sense.

I was thinking they could get in some dumb fight and decide to settle it with a Contest. They're both so fired up to battle each other that they make it to the finals, but when they battle they realize how much fun they're having and they both still like each other and blah blah.

Haha, that seems like it'd be a cute idea. But that reminds me, do you (or does anyone, really) know whether or not there's still going to be contests in this new region? I mean, it would really stink if they scrapped contests in place of something new, but so far, I haven't heard anything confirming that there would still be contests in the games (and subsequently in the anime).

 

[Musashi]

Well, like I said, it's probably me reading in-between lines that don't exist, but I remember one episode where Musashi was fawning over this doctor, and Kojirou didn't seem too pleased, and I've read "The Ghost of Maiden's Peak" as showing that Musashi's pretty possessive of Kojirou...stuff like that. Nothing big, probably me just pulling at strings. :sweatlol:

I've always been a bit iffy about the doctor one since it may have just been some bad animation. As for Ghost of Maiden's Peak... I'll judge after I know what they're saying in Japanese.

ut that reminds me, do you (or does anyone, really) know whether or not there's still going to be contests in this new region?

No one knows yet.

 

[Araragi-hakase]

So, remember a while ago when there was a brief discussion about a Rocketshipping Podcast?

Somehow the idea came up again last night, and RG, Paperhorse and I are going to record one on Saturday over Skype. Anyone is welcome to join us, and we are going to try to work it out so people can call in to ask us questions or give us topics to discuss.

If you don't want to call in/don't have a mic, you can leave us topics here or come to the Skype chat when we're doing it. You don't need a mic to participate in the chat room part, and you can still listen to what we're saying. There is also a way to leave messages, so before we even do the podcast you can call in and leave us a message. My Skype name is "zombiehorse666", I'm not sure who is going to be hosting the chat (but you need to add one of the three of us because it will def. be one of us) so that you can be invited to the conference call. I'll let RG and Paperhorse post with their Skype names and any other ideas and info that I might have missed.

We're not sure of the exact time yet on Saturday we're going to do this, (probably pretty much when the three of us are online ;P). We're going to do it after the dub airs so we can talk about that for sure. But like I said, please feel free to contribute anything you'd like us to talk about, I'm really excited for this so I hope you guys are still interested in this Even if you don't want to participate in Skype, I think we're going to put it up for download after we edit it and everything so you don't need to directly participate, but it'd be cool!

This is all pretty disorganized at the moment because the idea has only recently been revisited, but maybe once we get some topics it'll be easier to find the direction we're going to go with this.

 

[Musashi]

I was thinking it would be around 11/12ish on Saturday, right after the dub airs on the west coast. I'm recording the podcast so I was thinking I could be the host. My skpye name is rocket_girl10.

I was thinking the podcast would be like this:

Introduction
General thoughts/favorite momets of Rocketshipping
Rundown of DP Rocketshipping
What we hope for in BW
Call-ins/questions from others

How does this sound?

 

[Paperhorse]

I was thinking it would be around 11/12ish on Saturday, right after the dub airs on the west coast. I'm recording the podcast so I was thinking I could be the host. My skpye name is rocket_girl10.

I was thinking the podcast would be like this:

Introduction
General thoughts/favorite momets of Rocketshipping
Rundown of DP Rocketshipping
What we hope for in BW
Call-ins/questions from others

How does this sound?

This all sounds great!

I was also thinking that maybe we could post a question in the thread that people could call in and answer on Saturday (Around 11:00 Eastern Time). For example: What was your favorite rocketshipping moment of DP and why? Therefore we can hear a bunch of different responses from a few people. Does that sound ok? If anyone has a better question, feel free to say so.

And of course, people can call in and talk about whatever they want.

 

[Hassel]

Since contests (or a variation of them) are staying in the games, I wonder how they will be portrayed and how they will effect the rockets. If Musashi starts participating in them again, are they going make her suck at first (because the contests might be different) and then make her develop again. It's not like she can be too powerful against the main character. I just hope Kojiro and Nyasu stay by her side all the time.

 

[pikachu200]

^ And would cheer for her at the contests (only so she won't kill them) lol Jessie has James and Meowth under her control many times

 

[Hassel]

^ And would cheer for her at the contests (only so she won't kill them) lol Jessie has James and Meowth under her control many times

Except no. Wish Zoppi would be fired so bullshit like this wouldn't spread. -_- God I hate dubfaggotry.

 

[Yoshi-san]

Since contests (or a variation of them) are staying in the games, I wonder how they will be portrayed and how they will effect the rockets. If Musashi starts participating in them again, are they going make her suck at first (because the contests might be different) and then make her develop again. It's not like she can be too powerful against the main character. I just hope Kojiro and Nyasu stay by her side all the time.

There they really contests? I was thinking Pokemon Musicals would be different.

Musashi singing? Hmmm...

 

[Musajirou]

Well, her being cold towards him wasn't in my mind... More like oblivious and well-meaning. And I don't think Kojiro would be like Mondo - Mondo is quite "active" with his crush, but Kojiro would be more "passive" and more oblivious (or denying) to his feelings himself. Hopefully Musashi will continue praising him in BW - Maybe we could even get a blush again! I personally think the funny crush would be very cute all in all.

Oh, ok, I get what you mean now. To me, it looks like that's what's happening now, but well... xD; I've always seen the Rockets having feelings for each other, yet either being oblivious (Kojiro) or too proud to admit it to themselves (Musashi).
But blush again? When did blush happen after Musashi complimented Kojiro? O.O

Didn't mean it as a whole episode, but a mention about them... Kinda like that Kid's Day episode from Kanto where Musashi and Nyasu were a bit jealous of Kojiro who had a better childhood than what they had. I don't think they mentioned their poor pasts in DP at all. But who knows what kind of episodes the writers will give to the rockets...

You've just made me realize about one thing. Until DP, episodes about Musashi and Kojiro's past treated generally about unhappiness and having no luck. DP episodes were about unlucky love. Both Musashi and Kojiro ones.

Are the writers hinting at something with this? Maybe they're really going to develop humanxhuman relations more?

RG, I know what you're going to say about DP073, but to me it was still about love, they didn't have to state it directly to notice this. Especially if the Japanese tend to say things indirectly. Therefore, I was very surprised with "Nyasu's love!" episode, where expressions were so explicit that they couldn't be more explicit. But it's still too little to say if love topic is no more taboo in Pokemon, especially since it was PokemonxPokemon love, that isn't treated as delicately as human relations. But still, DP153 at least had Kojiro admitting that Rumika was his first love, in comparison to DP073.

Anyway, the appearance of such episodes itself is a good thing. The second half of DP overall, really took care about human relationships, especially between Musashi and Kojiro. I see it as a good prelude to something even greater. I hope that the writers of BW will respect all the work that was done in DP and will contiune it, instead of wasting potential.

This really needs to be explained in the next Kojiro focus episode. I can only hope Best wishes takes things a little further since DP used up a lot of Rocket plots.

I wouldn't worry aout the writers having no ideas for Rocket plots. There's still much to be done, even more than we can even imagine Maybe they will take things further, but to what extent they can do it? I think that they will still play games with us. And for some reason, I don't mind it, under condition they won't undevelop anything.

I'd still like to hear her address that she has no parents. It would be nice to know if she remembers Miyamoto or not.

Yeah, especially, if the dub did a mistake where they called Musashi's foster mother her real mother.

I don't think that's asking for too much. If Contests are in Isshu, Tomioka can just continue where he left off...

If there won't be any changes for Contests in Isshu, I can see another Musashi contest arc very boring xD; Because really, in the matter of contests, pretty much everything about character development has been done. The writers need to spice things up a little... *coughtagcontestscough*

But for some reason I'm happy that the contests are staying, especially because I'd hate if Musashi really left the contests because of Hikari's loss that annoyed her. Especially considering her character growth in DP, that would be really immature of her.

So she's going to change identity... I wish she could get some serious-looking identity, not another one that looks like a joke ^^;

But the writers have grown so much since Kanto! I think they can do an even better job.

Let alone Kanto, they've grown much since the first half of DP xD;

Pokemon isn't other anime. You can't compare it.

Yeah, I know, but the thing is, until now, I couldn't even imagine that anyone can make something this stupid. Now I can see it xD; But yeah, current Pokemon writers look like really intelligent people.

Hmm, I'm not sure about this. On one hand it would be adorable, but if the Rockets will be around for Gen 6 I don't think it would be a wise move.

Yeah, something more obvious should be saved for the last Gen the Rockets are in. Currently, I feel fully satisfied with what we have now.

As for my own idea, I think it would be great if Musashi and Kojiro fought each other in a Contest battle. The two have never had a real battle against each other before, and I think it would be a great chance to get some more insight into how they feel about the other.

Hmm, that would be interesting idea (because it sounds like a drama and drama leads to Rocketshippinf very often ;D), but I can't see it happen. Kojiro has no reason to become Musashi's rival.

The problem is that I'd always thought that the Housou ep. was the one that was wrong, and not vice-versa. ^^;

Housou episode was proven canon twice arleady in DP, so it can't be wrong.

I've always been a bit iffy about the doctor one since it may have just been some bad animation. As for Ghost of Maiden's Peak... I'll judge after I know what they're saying in Japanese.

It wasn't bad animation. The problem is, what was the reason of his irritation. I haven't watched this episode for ages, but since Satoshi showed in the same frame telling the doctor to not cure Musashi's Pokemon, because she's evil or something, so that may be it.

I don't remember what was being said in Japanese version of Ghost of Maiden's Peak, but as far as I remember it was pretty the same as English one, besides "You really do care!" line, that was shippier in the dub. But there was also a line that sounded shippier in Japanese version than the dub... Instead of "I don't wanna go!" Kojiro screamed "Wakaretakunai!" that meant that he didn't want to be separated (from Musashi, as before this line, he was talking directly to her).
these lines may sound similarly, but again, the intention is changed.

Since contests (or a variation of them) are staying in the games, I wonder how they will be portrayed and how they will effect the rockets. If Musashi starts participating in them again, are they going make her suck at first (because the contests might be different) and then make her develop again. It's not like she can be too powerful against the main character. I just hope Kojiro and Nyasu stay by her side all the time.

Yeah, I can see her suck at the beginning too. I'd love if she could sing too. Hayashibara-san is an awesome singer, but they would make Musashi suck at singing on purpose the most probably XD; Though they could make her improve as time goes on

And of course that Kojiro and Nyasu will be supporting her. It wouldn't have any sense if they started to act the same way they acted yet at the beginning of DP all of sudden... Practically every single writer in DP replied somehow to this idea, so I can't see how we can be endangered.

I was thinking it would be around 11/12ish on Saturday, right after the dub airs on the west coast. I'm recording the podcast so I was thinking I could be the host. My skpye name is rocket_girl10.

I was thinking the podcast would be like this:

Introduction
General thoughts/favorite momets of Rocketshipping
Rundown of DP Rocketshipping
What we hope for in BW
Call-ins/questions from others

How does this sound?

Well, sounds good enough to me. I'm concentrated on Anthology right now, so I don't really have any ideas for now ^^;

EDIT: Ok, I've just watched DP073 in Japanese. It was undoubtedly about love and unfulfilled dreams. When Musashi asked her Dokukeru if she loves that boy's Dokukeru, she said "Is it Dokukeru's love season? But even me had such a season". Then, the love thing was repeated a few times in reference to Dokukeru, which situation Musashi compared to her own. When she's telling Dokukeru to go, she says "Live in happiness with the person you love!". And then "Love with all your heart instead of me! That's what happiness is!".

So maybe it's safe to say that human love relationships are no more taboo...

 

[Musashi]

Since contests (or a variation of them) are staying in the games, I wonder how they will be portrayed and how they will effect the rockets. If Musashi starts participating in them again, are they going make her suck at first (because the contests might be different) and then make her develop again.

If they stick with the singing/dancing/dress-up element then Musashi would have something to work on. They could make her a horrible singer, and we know her fashion sense is a bit... off. Kojiro could help her design stuff, except this time it wouldn't be anti-shippy bullshit.

RG, I know what you're going to say about DP073,

Well that takes all the fun out of replying.

Hmm, that would be interesting idea (because it sounds like a drama and drama leads to Rocketshippinf very often ;D), but I can't see it happen. Kojiro has no reason to become Musashi's rival.

Like I said, it would just be a one episode thing because they got into some fight. We know there's going to some episode in BW where they get into a dumb argument.

Instead of "I don't wanna go!" Kojiro screamed "Wakaretakunai!" that meant that he didn't want to be separated (from Musashi, as before this line, he was talking directly to her).
these lines may sound similarly, but again, the intention is changed.

They sound different to me. The Japanese line sounds just like what Kojiro was saying in DP117. :-D

So maybe it's safe to say that human love relationships are no more taboo...

Kotone already kinda proved that. It'll be interesting to see where they go with this. The writers seem determined to leep any Musashi/Kojiro love stuff in the past, so we'll just have to see where they go from here.

 

[Musajirou]

If they stick with the singing/dancing/dress-up element then Musashi would have something to work on. They could make her a horrible singer, and we know her fashion sense is a bit... off. Kojiro could help her design stuff, except this time it wouldn't be anti-shippy bullshit.

But we don't know yet, if they're part of the contests or brand new thing, right? Maybe they could replace appeals with "musicals". Ok, sorta dumb, I don't know xD; Anyway, I hope they will include singing/dancing/dress up in the anime somehow. Especially for the reason Kojiro could help her a lot with that. It means another way for character development At the same time, he would get some more serious purpose than just cheering on ;D

Well that takes all the fun out of replying.

So now I don't know if my post changed your view on the episode or not xD;

Like I said, it would just be a one episode thing because they got into some fight. We know there's going to some episode in BW where they get into a dumb argument.

Oh, that kinda happened arleady in the "The Bicker the Better"... But they didn't have any deep thoughts during the battle, right? I can't see a reason how the writers would make Musashi and Kojiro fight against each other other than a) regular training b) war of the sexes xD They can make similar episode, but still, it can feel different. Just like BF and DP break-up episodes. There's now way the writers would resist another break-up episode in BW

Kotone already kinda proved that. It'll be interesting to see where they go with this. The writers seem determined to leep any Musashi/Kojiro love stuff in the past, so we'll just have to see where they go from here.

Yeah, Kotone was important sign here as well. Pokemon looks more and more like regular anime overall and I'm very happy because of it. Of course, there's no way Pokemon could ever become shoujo, but it doesn't need to become one to respect human relationships at least on the same level as the ones with Pokemon. They're important part of anime too.

 

[musakoji718]

Housou episode was proven canon twice arleady in DP, so it can't be wrong.

Which episodes proved the Housou canon? (Just out of curiosity, because I don't remember them referencing the Housou episodes at all, except for DP117 with Yuusaku and the Team Rocket Academy.)

 

[Musashi]

The episode where Potchama falls in love with a Maril is the other one. Kojiro is commenting how this reminded him of their days at training camp:

http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showpost.php?p=985979&postcount=4879

As you can see, I posted a comparison picture.

 

[Hassel]

But blush again? When did blush happen after Musashi complimented Kojiro? O.O

It's the Kabigon focused OI episode where Musashi complimented Kojiro for having a good memory, and he blushed and smiled. :'3 Yeah, it's ancient so it probably doesn't matter... Here's a cap:

 

[Araragi-hakase]

I've always seen the Rockets having feelings for each other, yet either being oblivious (Kojiro) or too proud to admit it to themselves (Musashi).

I always sort of saw it that way, too, except sometimes I think Musashi would be oblivious to his advances (if any) because she's so busy thinking about herself, it all goes back to her "idol dreams" thing. I guess that kind of goes back to the pride thing, though.

Yeah, especially, if the dub did a mistake where they called Musashi's foster mother her real mother.

I always kind of assumed that was a caretaker that she referred to as her mother, but this is me getting my hopes up that we'll ever get a Miyamoto reference in the anime...I really need to get over that we never will

EDIT: Ok, I've just watched DP073 in Japanese. It was undoubtedly about love and unfulfilled dreams. When Musashi asked her Dokukeru if she loves that boy's Dokukeru, she said "Is it Dokukeru's love season? But even me had such a season". Then, the love thing was repeated a few times in reference to Dokukeru, which situation Musashi compared to her own. When she's telling Dokukeru to go, she says "Live in happiness with the person you love!". And then "Love with all your heart instead of me! That's what happiness is!".

I like this a lot, it feels like a sense of closure to her feelings for Astin, rather than bringing them up again, if that makes sense.



I like all these references to the hoso episode, never noticed them before ;P

Anyway. I recently rewatched a couple of the League episodes and it got me thinking about why Kojiro can act more in charge. It's interesting to me that while he had done it before, it wasn't as "strong" as it has been now in the league. He would have never done this in early DP, mostly because Musashi wouldn't have let him. I don't want to say she's calmed down so to speak, because she can still hold her own when she has to, but she's become less argumentative towards his ideas in particular. He wouldn't take charge if he knew he was going to get yelled at by her, sure, a large part of him isn't being as afraid of her, but it's a balance of her not really being anything to be so scared of anymore. And especially during DP185, Musashi (and Nyasu, I guess...) seemed pretty clueless as to why their stuff wasn't selling until Kojiro explained it to them. (As much as I love the Candy Musalina doll, it does seem kind of silly that they were selling those at the league ;P) But I am glad he brought it up sooner rather than later, imagine how frustrated they'd have been if they had kept selling merchandise no one wanted for several episodes and couldn't figure out why nobody wanted it (seems like something that would happen in Kanto...especially if Kojiro had been afraid to voice his opinion on the matter, and especially if he had been the only one to come up with a solution). All of this stuff makes me more excited for BW. I don't think any of it will give Kojiro a big head or anything, but maybe he will find a goal beyond just being so team oriented now that he's found that he won't get shot down when he comes up with an idea, even if he does prefer letting Musashi have the spotlight, maybe this will give him the confidence to decide what he wants, too. Don't get me wrong, sometimes I like that he's team oriented (because someone has to be...) but now that they are successful as a team when they're doing "other" things. They feel much more like a team now more than ever rather than a leader and a follower, each coming up with their own ideas to contribute in the given situation.

And Nyasu becoming more of a third wheel is evidence to the development in their bond in particular. It's not that they don't care about him. And I know it's probably been brought up before, but I think a lot of it goes back to DP117, they were completely accepting of their death together, Nyasu wasn't a part of that. I doubt he even knew what exactly took place before he arrived, besides that they were in danger. And somehow I doubt they'd tell him about it later ;P I like to think that that's something that happened that they shared together and won't really bring it up again (unless they're alone together or something and it comes up), not out of embarrassment, but that's something pretty traumatic to go through with someone and not exactly something you share with your "other" friend ;P

Oh, and if you were wondering, we did the podcast on Saturday, it was a lot of fun! It's really cool to actually talk about all of this stuff out loud rather than type everything. I don't know when it'll be ready, RG has to edit it. Can't wait to do it again You guys need to give us stuff to talk about!

 

[QuietDragon]

By the way, I hope I'm still welcome here. ^^;; Seems like you've all bonded while I was gone and busy, so it feels like I just don't fit here.... still, love for KojiMusa'll always bring me back. <3

Well I was all for them dying in DP117.

Speaking of that, Musashi was referring to reincarnation and not some type of heaven, right?

She specified nothing, but if it were simply reincarnation, she'd refer to a second life and not a second world.

Seems more like she was hoping for a second world they could both meet up in.

So you could see it as a Heaven, even if the reincarnation theory works more for most Pokemon characters rather traditional Japanese beliefs.

Hmmmm.... I don't like the idea of Musashi being pregnant either, (since it won't happen on the show) but that doesn't mean you shouldn't write the fic, RG, because it will still be a good story.

Pregnancy was a major plot-point in the episode Time Warp Heals all Wounds A.K.A. that cute Meowth/Nyasu and May/Haruka time-travelling filler. Even the dub kept it in! Although, the old woman (Kumi, was it?) used simple terms to describe it to ten year old Haruka by saying she had a baby in her tummy or something to that effect. x3

That same episode also dealt with preventing the father of said unborn child's untimely death.

This show can deal with more mature topics than you give it credit for!

Unless you meant with the main characters, but still, how many times have we seen characters killed off? Sometimes they come back, but others stay dead for good.

Something light and /normally/ a happy occasion, if desired, like expecting a child, is certainly not too dark for this light-hearted series!

Not to mention, we also had on-screen Pokemon breastfeeding. And so on, and so forth... this show doesn't reject natural things.

ALSO. Even though you've made it quite clear over the years you don't like the idea of pregnant Musashi (most likely because it's difficult to pull off well!), your post sums up exactly why it would be so much fun! xD

"Pregnancy it's not a sickness, you know!" I can actualy hear her say something like that. xDDD I can picture it clearly in my mind... fff, I love Musashi. <3

 

[musakoji718]

The episode where Potchama falls in love with a Maril is the other one. Kojiro is commenting how this reminded him of their days at training camp:

http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showpost.php?p=985979&postcount=4879

As you can see, I posted a comparison picture.

Ah, okay. I never saw that episode, so I guess that's why I missed the reference. ^^;