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BW018 - Yaguruma Forest! Kurumiru and Arti!!

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See stuff like this is why I think no one reads any of my posts (on this matter), because its just walls of text. No instead they seem to just pick and choose certain things that pop out at them to suit their own arguing needs.

But my whole argument, the stuff that makes sense, they just ignore because they have no counter argument to them. Seems like they are just in denial now.

It's more the fact that I really didn't, and don't, intend to elaborate on the subject outside of my little paragraph, because said subject got tedious weeks ago.
And besides that, you never back down anyway, so I just cba :p
 
because said subject got tedious weeks ago.
Which is why I was glad for that possible fake title thread, at least BW019 was something new. It's disappointing that we just can't seem to get away from all this mess until after BW020 (the episode with Sandile).

And besides that, you never back down anyway
Maybe because I have yet to see any good counterargument. Though I can't see any good counterargument that anyone could use, since it just doesn't fit the previews.

Like I said if it was Arti, how come he isn't the one saving it, why Ash? Why go through all this crap with Ash just have Arti be a douche and capture Sewaddle, just because he's a bug gym leader.

If Aloe was in this episode instead, would people really think she would get it?

At the very least answer: Why is Ash going through all these hoops by the writer's if he wasn't going to catch it in the end? Why couldn't Arti be the one to save and rescue Sewaddle? Why couldn't it be Arti who screams "Kurumiru" in the preview, which we know for a fact that it happens after the Arti and Kurumiru scenes, since the event with Ash and Kurumiru happened after it got its leaf chewed up, and the Arti and Kurumiru scenes happens when Sewaddle's leaf not being chewed on.

And damn it, I'm having a hard time adjusting to this localization of these names. Edit: Though it might because I was using Satoshi's scream of "Kurumiru" in the preview, rather than what it will be in the English and I got "Kurumiru" stuck in my head.
 
There isn't enough proof for half the theories you and other members throw out but act like it's the most logical thing. Let people speculate what they want and don't cut down their theories

I never had sure about my theories without enough proof. An I didn't said anything about "two kurumiru"'s impossibility. There could be two Kurumiru, but there was hardly any proof for this statement. And, as I remember it, you was the one who definitely sure about these theories...

Maybe because I have yet to see any good counterargument.

My opinion and theory for what happened in these scenes:

artykuri.jpg


Kurumiru was sense something and jump to his partner. Arty was surprised to its sudden behavior...

artkuri.jpg


He understand what happened. Arty isn't surprised anymore...

But I agreed with you in your other statements.
 
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Yes because Snivy is a bug Pokemon, and they both have the same EXACT personality. Yep, Sewaddle is exactly like Snivy.

Hi, let me introduce you to my friend Sarcasm because I don't think you know him. Sarcasm, this is Dman. Dman, this is sarcasm.

But my whole argument, the stuff that makes sense, they just ignore because they have no counter argument to them. Seems like they are just in denial now.

Fine, let's take a look at your arguments and go into a tedious senseless debate.

1. Ash is "bonding" with Kurumiru, therefore he will catch it.

Let's take a look at the preview, both the future events and next week's preview. Where is the bonding? Do we see Ash hugging Kurumiru? fighting alongside it? Laughing with it? No. We see Ash calling after it and jumping in water after it. So basically, your argument is that this is Ash's pokémon because he's trying to save it and adresses it directly, except that not a rule the anime follows.

There have been plenty of episodes where Ash has risked his life to save a wild pokémon or someone else's pokémon, such as the Hippopotas episode or the Lake of Rage Gyrados, or adressed/held/hugged a wild pokémon without afterwards catching it, such as the Houndour episode.

2. It's not Arti because Arti isn't saving it in the river.

You wanna use previews and spoilers, let's do it. We have a shot of Kurumiru totally bypasses Ash to go on Arti's shoulder and we have a screenshot of Arti almost french kissing Kurumiru. So there's more than enough evidence to see that Ash isn't the only one bonding with Kurumiru and that despite being saved by Ash, if Ash does indeed save it, it's actually closer to Arti than it is to Ash. Assuming those aren't two different Kurumiru.

3. It's nor Arti's because he needs pokémon to be a gym leader

For all we know he already has Fushide and Ishizumai with him and therefore already has pokémon making this episode, much like the Fantina episode or the Clair arc, were we see the signature pokémon of the gym leader.

Actually, the Kurumiru looks a lot more battle ready that your average wild pokémon and the battle against Pikachu felt much like the unofficial matches against Norman, Gardenia and Fantina than a caputre battle.

4. Ash is gonna catch it because the episode preview mentions capturing it.

Fine, except that there have been episodes in the past that mentioned Ash wanting to capture a pokémon where that capture didn't happen, such as the first Gible episode, the Buizel episode and others. You're gonna say that doesn't count, I say it does.

5. Ash is gonna catch it because a toy company made a mistake on their website.

Don't we have a lot of merchandise that hinted at Ash catching Sandile too? Sandile showing up everywhere and in a toy series along with the rest of Ash's team. Oh wow, he got that other dark type nobody would have seen coming were it not for Sunyshore sketches.

- - -​

Basically, what I'm saying isn't that those three arguments are wrong per se, because Ash catching Kurumiru could still happen, but simply that none of your arguments automatically mean that Ash is catching Kurumiru or that the Kurumiru has no chances of ever being Arti's as in the history of the anime, they have been broken.

So calm down and stop treating everybody who disagrees with you like irrational haters, when they in fact have arguments that stand on their own and are based on the show. If you want people to take your opinions and arguments seriously, show the same respect to them.
 
Keep in mind that one site that said it was Ash's removed that line.
 
I seriously dont see why the writers would give Ash another Pokemon right after filling his party.
 
I seriously dont see why the writers would give Ash another Pokemon right after filling his party.

That's the other reason I think that Ash isn't catching Kurumiru. He already has a full roster and most of his pokémon need a lot of developpement, so I don't really see the writers ditching one when they're being developped to make room for Kurumiru, just like I don't see them putting Kurumiru on ice when there's a gym looming where it would have a tailor-made rivalry with one of the members of Arti's team.

If Ash hadn't caught Zuruggu yesterday, I could see the writers pulling a Butterfree and having Ash catching Kurumiru, evolving it and releasing it to make room for the real sixth slot of Ash'S regional team, but with Zuruggu, no I don't see it.
 
What is Ash to do with it? Zugguru isn't going anywhere.
 
I'm pretty sure it isn't a fake.

Either they took it down to avoid spoiling it or they took it down because they made a mistake(I don't think they did but it's possible)

Im inclining for the fake part but don't quote me on that
 
Being fake doesn't even make any sense since it's a real website. Either they made a mistake or they were told to take it down.

I'm kinda torn on whether Satoshi will catch this or not. On one hand you think he wouldn't because he has a full team, but it seems weird Inuyama would voice a Pokemon we'll only see once or twice, especially since the Rockets aren't in the episode.
 
No reckets? Now they will appear once in 5 episodes.

No doubt, they gradually begin to be not main characters.
 
I'm kinda torn on whether Satoshi will catch this or not. On one hand you think he wouldn't because he has a full team, but it seems weird Inuyama would voice a Pokemon we'll only see once or twice, especially since the Rockets aren't in the episode.

Do you think it could be for the sake of having her voice someone (since the Rockets won't be there)?
 
Damn Bulbagarden and it's illogical errors.

Hi, let me introduce you to my friend Sarcasm because I don't think you know him. Sarcasm, this is Dman. Dman, this is sarcasm.

Do you think I care? I mean if you don't want to argue and make your posts all sarcasm or whatever than what else am I going to do? Roll my eyes and ignore it?

Where is the bonding?
Do you even know what bonding is.

Do we see Ash hugging Kurumiru? fighting alongside it? Laughing with it?
Yeah sure because Ash already has Sewaddle, and it would make sense. I was right about you, you only think bonding can occur only when a trainer catches the Pokemon. That contradicts all the plot capture episodes, but feel free to disagree.

We see Ash calling after it and jumping in water after it. So basically, your argument is that this is Ash's pokémon because he's trying to save it and adresses it directly, except that not a rule the anime follows.
It is, we may have had a few times where Ash saved a Pokemon, or maybe called out of his name. But you want to know what wasn't involved in those examples. Ash wanting to catch that Pokemon.


such as the Hippopotas episode
Well ignoring the fact if Rhonda didn't show her ugly (only kidding about the ugly) face Ash would've caught Hippopotas. So he didn't, big whoop, it's not like he actually wanted to capture it, outside of that one and only possible moment before Plot said Rhonda had to come in and ruin it.


such as the Houndour episode.
Again he didn't want to catch Houndour, he was just doing what he normally does. A Pokemon is in trouble and he wants to help, same with the Lake of Rage Gyarados and Hippopotas.

But look at Sewaddle, not only does he want to catch it, as in put in a Poke ball. He is the one the writers said was going to call after it and jump into a raging river to save it. The writers wouldn't do that just for the shits and giggles.

If you think ABSOLUTELY nothing will happen after Ash risks his life to save the Sewaddle he wanted to capture, then you don't know how this anime works. I'm sorry but you need to look at all of the important plot episodes of Ash's captures. You know specifically Chikorita for example. And actually tell me the difference? Oh right? Erika wasn't in the episode, right.......

2. We have a shot of Kurumiru totally bypasses Ash to go on Arti's shoulder and we have a screenshot of Arti almost french kissing Kurumiru. So there's more than enough evidence to see that Ash isn't the only one bonding with Kurumiru and that despite being saved by Ash, if Ash does indeed save it, it's actually closer to Arti than it is to Ash. Assuming those aren't two different Kurumiru.
AGAIN this why I don't think people read all my text in my "walls of apparently idiotic posts" what do Bulbasaur, Turtwig, and to a lesser extent Gible and Snorunt all have in common? They had friends before they went with Ash.

Bulbasaur had Melanie, Snorunt had Nurse Joy, Turtwig had Clara, and Gible had Wilma. Do you not see the similarities, again Bulbasaur and Turtwig didn't give a crap about Ash, but they bonded with him in the episode, and they wanted to be with him. How can you not see the similarities? Oh right you choose not to, probably because you thought they were shit captures, especially Snorunt. But you know what if I can "apparently" not forget about Khoury's Gible and Dawn's Buizel in your arguments, and I'm not allowed to say it doesn't count. Then you sure as hell don't have the right to ignore those captures either (because of personal reasons). Don't pull a double standard. It invalidates your whole argument against me.

Obviously Sewaddle's disdain at first is because of character development (just like Chikorita). They want Ash to earn Sewaddle's trust. After saving Sewaddle and gaining its trust, do you still think that after saving its life, Sewaddle is going to be ungrateful and still choose to be Arti despite everything Ash did to it? Oh right because in your eyes that would be far more believable......

The situation before is, is quite obvious, and this episode is nothing more than your typical capture episode, but maybe slightly superior to them because a gym leader will be in it, the forest's appearance and Sewaddle being bad ass. But still if you can't see what obviously should happen, then you need to rewatch some capture episodes, because I don't see why you're ignoring them except for double standard aka personal biased reasons.

For all we know he already has Fushide and Ishizumai with him and therefore already has pokémon making this episode, much like the Fantina episode or the Clair arc, were we see the signature pokémon of the gym leader.
They already had their signature Pokemon at that time. Sewaddle is really obviously a wild Pokemon. Because why would Arti's Sewaddle go to the forest's edge or actually not be in the forest, why wouldn't his Sewaddle be as close to him as possible? After all how can Arti "investigate" what's happening if he can't see his Sewaddle.

Plus why would the writers have Ash save a Pokemon that has no chance of going with him in the end? Note: I said Writers, not Ash. It makes no sense that the writers would have Ash risk his life for a Pokemon that he wasn't going to end up catching, because it was already owned. It's pointless. It should've been Arti, plain and simple. If it's his bug, he put the bug at risk, he should be the one who dives after it to save its life. Arti being "fabulous" and being afraid of getting wet just doesn't cut it.

The writers made Ash call out Sewaddle and is saving its life for a reason. Not just because its in his character. Remember, Ash doesn't always save a Pokemon in distress, sometimes when there's a trainer involved, they do the dirty work. The only reason why Ash has any reason to physically save a trainer's Pokemon at the risk to his life, is when they physically can't. Like Macy. But remember even though Ash did save her Vulpix, his primary concern was Pikachu, and only saved her Vulpix when it was obvious to Ash that she wasn't as physically built like him and couldn't slide down the steep hills. But in this case Ash's primary concern is Sewaddle, not Pikachu, not Pidove, not Oshawott, not Tepig, not Snivy, not Scraggy. He wants to save Sewaddle. His only concern is Sewaddle, add that fact to the fact he wants to catch Sewaddle and we have a CAPTURE.

No one as of yet has giving me an example where Ash wants to catch the Pokemon, ends up saving its life but doesn't catch it in the end. Ash rarely wants to catch Pokemon seeing as how most of his Pokemon came to him by choice of the Pokemon. And even the ones he does want to catch, end up wanting to be with him because of the bonding they had through out the episode.

Actually, the Kurumiru looks a lot more battle ready that your average wild pokémon and the battle against Pikachu felt much like the unofficial matches against Norman, Gardenia and Fantina than a caputre battle.
There's a lot Pokemon battle ready before Ash captures them. Like Snivy, and no, just because Dento and Iris speculated that Snivy abandoned her trainer isn't a good enough excuse since it could be applied to Sewaddle.

Fine, except that there have been episodes in the past that mentioned Ash wanting to capture a pokémon where that capture didn't happen, such as the first Gible episode, the Buizel episode and others. You're gonna say that doesn't count, I say it does.
You want to know why I don't count those outside the fact that he did get his own Gible and he got the same Buizel later on.

Buizel- Ash wasn't the only one who wanted to catch it. Dawn and Zoey wanted to catch it as well. And who ended up saving its life? Dawn did. And did she catch it. Yes If anything that episode proves my arguments. Dawn wanted to catch it, she was the one who ended up saving it, and she was the one who Buizel gave the chance to, and she caught it.

Khoury's Gible- Ignoring the fact that Ash didn't save Gible in any way shape or form (neither did Khoury), again Ash had another obstacle to deal with, Khoury. He suddenly wanted Gible out of the random blue, ended up saving Ash's life just so the writers could have an excuse for Khoury getting his shot with Gible and he ended up catching it.

But let's use a similar situation to those two that definitely proves my points: Cyndaquil. Ash and Koji both wanted the same Cyndaquil, and who was the only one to give a damn about Cyndaquil's well being? Ash. He's the one that saved, albeit with an unusual method (capturing it), and he was the one that ended up with it.

This would be the ONLY example, where Ash wanted to capture the Pokemon (actively, not passively like I suppose you could argue Hippopotas, though that one part hardly counts since that was only after meeting it), saved its life, but it ended up going going to someone else, for some convoluted, contrived reason. Bad writing, no matter how you justify it, Arti getting Sewaddle is bad writing pure and simple. Maybe that's why it makes no sense to me.

Maybe, just MAYBE if Sewaddle was already Arti's then I suppose, fine there's nothing Ash can do in that. But I don't know why they are making a big deal on Ash catching and saving Sewaddle. Especially since it seems like Ash battles to capture Sewaddle after Arti "meets" Sewaddle, thus making it a wild Pokemon. After all look at the position of Pikachu? Remember Ash always fights (official trainer battles) on the right facing left. Pikachu is on the left facing right side of the screen battling Sewaddle. If Ash was battling Arti, their situation would be reversed.

5. Ash is gonna catch it because a toy company made a mistake on their website.

Don't we have a lot of merchandise that hinted at Ash catching Sandile too? Sandile showing up everywhere and in a toy series along with the rest of Ash's team. Oh wow, he got that other dark type nobody would have seen coming were it not for Sunyshore sketches.
When has Sandile ever been as explicit as "Sewaddle that becomes one of Ash's Pokemon"?

And now onto the ridiculous "Ash already has six Pokemon" counterargument. Note all these quotes are general quotes dealing with the Counter Argument. So if I say "you are a moron" (not that I think I will do that) none of you can really be offended since none of these quote are attributed to you. If anything "You" refers to the Text Based Robot spewing out these quotes.

Ash already has six Pokemon
Huh? I seem to remember EP012 being about Ash getting Squirtle, and then EP013 about Ash getting Krabby. You know I could be wrong, but that's what I remember.

That doesn't count. Kanto Series Writing
The only Pokemon that Ash ever wanted to capture while having six Pokemon already post Kanto writing was the Gible that became Khoury's Pokemon. But how long did Ash have Gliscor at that point? 50 episodes? This episode directly takes place after BW017, and Ash wants to capture Sewaddle DESPITE already having six Pokemon. Ash can keep it in his pants, he's done it before, don't really see the point in Ash wanting to catch a Pokemon when his team is already full. You know unless the writers have a plan. You know, could be possible.

Add to the fact that we haven't seen what happens to a seventh Pokemon in over a decade (maybe more like 15 years, a decade and a half) and it's just begging for an explanation. Hell Pikachu's refusal to evolve took less time in both counts. Ash catching a "7th" Pokemon when he has six Pokemon happened before Pikachu initially refused to evolve, and they touched on it in the DP series (fairly early too). And the arguments for that can easily be applied to this situation. Little new kiddies just don't know what happens. They can just watch the OS then Well ignoring the fact that the first time this happened (capturing a "7th" Pokemon) there was only one region and one Pokedex, you could use that "Jerk-ish" excuse for Pikachu refusing to evolve as well. Just because Pikachu is a character in the anime doesn't give it any special priority, when little kids could easily just watch the OS episode where Pikachu refused to evolve. Unlike say a very important game mechanic that's part of Pokemon and should technically be a part of the anime as well.

"Bonding and growing a relationship" was never a good excuse for me for why Ash stopped actively catching Pokemon, because the only Pokemon that Ash didn't do that to, was Pokemon that ended up at Oak's lab, but that was because of horrible writing, and the fact Ash could not have six Pokemon on his team for a good chunk of that Indigo series. I mean think about it, why would Ash have three Pokemon at his disposal, Krabby, Muk, and Tauros, but only have 5 Pokemon? Bad writing. The writers chose to do that, thus they are the reason Ash never really bonded with or grew a relationship with. So again I don't buy that excuse.

They won't get any screen time, and they'll get treated badly
The only example that happened was in Kanto Series Writing, oh but hey the quote above you said something didn't count because of Kanto Series Writing. Oh wait, now you're just pulling a double standard to suit your needs.

First off we have no idea what the current writers would do in a situation that called for "rotation." Sure the current writers may have mistreated a Pokemon like Torterra in the past, but that may not have any bearing at all in terms of rotation, because after all they are the ones who waited until like 60 episodes or even 108 episodes before Ash got his sixth Pokemon. Now Ash has his sixth Pokemon at the 17th episode, who's to say that they wouldn't be able to rotate and do it well. Because remember the writers dictate what's going to happen, who's going to evolve and when. If Torterra got mistreated it was because they had no idea what they were doing, when they delayed Turtwig and Chimchar's evolutions. Hell even Staravia stayed too long as a Staravia.

So if they actually do the smart thing and give Pokemon the right screen time, instead of whoring out a Pokemon, like Chimchar/Infernape, they'd be able to do rotation well. So far none of Ash's Unova Pokemon have been whored out. And aside from Pidove and Scraggy (for obvious reasons), all of them have gotten wins so far. So right now the only Pokemon that's being "mistreated" is Pidove. Of course when has Ash's basic fully unevolved Pokemon ever been treated right? Look at how long it took Taillow to evolve, and it didn't get a single DAMN win until it evolved. This is why I want Pidove to get a win before evolving, so it at least shows how unique it is compared to Ash's other Basic non evolved Pokemon.


Finally, Secondly, look at the Swadloon on the Lunch Boxes. Let's assume that Swadloon has an actual reason to be on there. This would mean if Ash got Sewaddle, it evolved into Swadloon, I mean you can't argue that they're already at the league, because Ash only has 2 maybe 3 evolutions? Well then I guess we really are in a Kanto and Johto fusion, aren't we? And you can't argue that its a random Pokemon, because Swadloon was never a pre release Pokemon like most if not all the Pokemon on there. Sure Kokorok technically wasn't either (though we did get a in-game shot of it prior to the release), and I suppose you can argue that they just are showing evolved forms of the pre-release Pokemon, I still don't see the real reason why Swadloon would be on there, if it was a random Pokemon, as well as Kokorok. I mean you could argue that in conjunction with Fraxure it is that case, but Axew is an important Pokemon of the Best Wishes Series, why would Fraxure be on there, if Iris's Axew doesn't evolve before Ash's three starters and maybe Scraggy? Talk about random Best Wishes Pokemon. Then again everyone else's team is on there except Axew, and Pidove. Only reasonable explanation is because they evolved.

So my point is if Swadloon on there has importance (though if you argue it was a link to Arti, it would be Hahakomori, not Swadloon), it's because Ash's hypothetical Sewaddle evolved, indicating that you are indeed wrong, and that Ash is rotating properly. How all this will probably go down, and who will Ash "oak" is unknown at this point.


Too much, too soon
I never understood that mentality. While the writers can screw over a Pokemon that has been on someone's team for a long time just as much as screwing over a Pokemon who hasn't been on all that long. I still believe that "The sooner, the better" mentality is far better than people's minds exploding from all these wonderful Pokemon Ash is catching consecutively. And I can't see why Ash getting so many Pokemon now, is not preferable to them waiting for like the tail end of the series, where a Pokemon gets mostly crap treatment, even if it gets a league win.

I mean think about it. The argument that a Pokemon isn't ready for a certain gym, how can that be if only a few episodes later it's league capable. The battles at the league should be harder than any gym challenge regardless of who that gym leader is. So that argument just doesn't work.

Mercy on whoever opens the spoiler, since it's LONG. It's a reply to Hellion and a general counter argument. But I think I thoroughly explained my points of view on this subject.
 
Oh, for the love of...let's just say there are two Sewaddles and be done with this. Arti gets one and Ash gets the other one.

Seriously... :/
 
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