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What did you think of Pokémon Black and White's plot? Was it good? Was it bad?

What do you think of Pokémon Black and White's plot?


  • Total voters
    65
I think BW's plot is a step in the right direction. Pokemon has always had the affinity for being more in-depth than it led on, but BW really pushes this in terms of character (development), backstory, overall plot, and it even gives room for some literature-like analysis.

While I agree that gameplay should be the main focus of a game, I feel that the "gameplay only, no need for graphics or story" mindset really sets games back. I mean, why completely ignore story or graphics when they can be used to enhance gameplay? I'm not saying use photorealistic graphics all the time, or have intense mature plots all the time--I'm saying, use those aspects to enhance the gameplay. BW did that with both its plot and graphics. Cute, bright graphics stylized to match the fantasy world, and an engrossing plot that keeps you hooked and immersed while going about trying to stop Team Plasma and makes you truly question your actions. I'm very glad that BW had a plot like this, and I hope Game Freak continues to push the envelope in this direction with future games.
 
-7 / 10

There are too many problems to get into so I'll try to keep it simple with point notes.

- N is the game equivalent to manga Lance (and I didn't much care for manga Lance).

- I'll use a quote to descibe what is wrong with Ghetsis (or rather the people around Ghetsis): "Well, you're clearly evil, but I see no reason not to trust you."

- How did he, and why did he, trick N? N is suppose to be a genius, why couldn't he see that he was being fooled? What was the point of tricking him in the first place? Couldn't they have accomplished their goals without him?

- Why is everybody depending on you to go save the world? I mean, sure, this isn't the first time the game has had a character tell you to go fight an evil doer but here it's just the worst I've seen so far in the series. Everybody's like "you're the choosen one" with no real reason why they should think that other then you have a good bond with Pokemon which is pretty bad reasoning if you ask me.

- I'm not even going to get into how I'm just going to ask why. Why did they need to build a castle under the Pokemon League? What purpose did that serve?

Seriously, I feel like I'm on crazy pills everytime I have to explain why this plot makes no sense.

(P.S. If you're going to argue with my problems of the story do not use 'suspension of disbelief' unless you know what that actually means.)
 
I liked the plot. I think it would have been better if the main character talked... I get that wouldn't have made sense, since none of the other main characters talked, but still.

Ethan(Ethen?)/Lyra actually talked during the Pokethalon and Red is subosibly a 'Chatter-box' and I think he did talk to Copycat... they do talk but it hardly if ever show it

I liked the plot... what I love about Pokemon is the gameplay and the graphics... graphics are etremely important... a game can have the best plot and game play but if the graphics suck nobody will ever buy it... let's face it look at the Kingdom Hearts series... it not only has a fantastic (If mnd-screwey) plot (one of the best out there IMO_ and game play but amazing graphics.

Pokemon has very good graphics for a handheld and the gameplay is amazig and I'm glad they are working on plot as well
 
I liked the plot. I think it would have been better if the main character talked... I get that wouldn't have made sense, since none of the other main characters talked, but still.

Ethan(Ethen?)/Lyra actually talked during the Pokethalon and Red is subosibly a 'Chatter-box' and I think he did talk to Copycat... they do talk but it hardly if ever show it

I liked the plot... what I love about Pokemon is the gameplay and the graphics... graphics are etremely important... a game can have the best plot and game play but if the graphics suck nobody will ever buy it... let's face it look at the Kingdom Hearts series... it not only has a fantastic (If mnd-screwey) plot (one of the best out there IMO_ and game play but amazing graphics.

Pokemon has very good graphics for a handheld and the gameplay is amazig and I'm glad they are working on plot as well

Then you're saying all NES games stink then because of 8-bit graphics? You sound just like the Irate Gamer.
 
I liked the plot. I think it would have been better if the main character talked... I get that wouldn't have made sense, since none of the other main characters talked, but still.

Ethan(Ethen?)/Lyra actually talked during the Pokethalon and Red is subosibly a 'Chatter-box' and I think he did talk to Copycat... they do talk but it hardly if ever show it

I liked the plot... what I love about Pokemon is the gameplay and the graphics... graphics are etremely important... a game can have the best plot and game play but if the graphics suck nobody will ever buy it... let's face it look at the Kingdom Hearts series... it not only has a fantastic (If mnd-screwey) plot (one of the best out there IMO_ and game play but amazing graphics.

Pokemon has very good graphics for a handheld and the gameplay is amazig and I'm glad they are working on plot as well

Then you're saying all NES games stink then because of 8-bit graphics? You sound just like the Irate Gamer.

... for their time they were very good. If the NES games were released now they'd flop. But back in the day 8bit was top of the line you sir are being really silly with the whole 'I don't give a fuck about plot and graphics because those don't matter' attitude ebcause I know your fucking lying. Great gameplay doesn't make a sucsessful game. Graphics are important because that's what catches a persons eye. not the gameplay...

gameplay is important but it's not the end all if GF only cared about game play I doubt Pokemon would be near as popular as it is...
 
I liked the plot. I think it would have been better if the main character talked... I get that wouldn't have made sense, since none of the other main characters talked, but still.

Ethan(Ethen?)/Lyra actually talked during the Pokethalon and Red is subosibly a 'Chatter-box' and I think he did talk to Copycat... they do talk but it hardly if ever show it

I liked the plot... what I love about Pokemon is the gameplay and the graphics... graphics are etremely important... a game can have the best plot and game play but if the graphics suck nobody will ever buy it... let's face it look at the Kingdom Hearts series... it not only has a fantastic (If mnd-screwey) plot (one of the best out there IMO_ and game play but amazing graphics.

Pokemon has very good graphics for a handheld and the gameplay is amazig and I'm glad they are working on plot as well

Then you're saying all NES games stink then because of 8-bit graphics? You sound just like the Irate Gamer.

... for their time they were very good. If the NES games were released now they'd flop. But back in the day 8bit was top of the line you sir are being really silly with the whole 'I don't give a fuck about plot and graphics because those don't matter' attitude ebcause I know your fucking lying. Great gameplay doesn't make a sucsessful game. Graphics are important because that's what catches a persons eye. not the gameplay...

gameplay is important but it's not the end all if GF only cared about game play I doubt Pokemon would be near as popular as it is...

So by your logic, Mega Man 9 and 10 are the worst games ever because they were released in the late 2000s and used 8-bit graphics.
 
Those extra credit guys are the ones sssskiners disagrees on, and according to the Game Overthinker, companies develop the gameplay before the story, which shows that story telling in video games are never the main focus (they're only there to explain the gameplay mechanics). If they try to focus on the story first, then it's going to result in bad gameplay, just look at the Legend of Spyro games.

I think you over generalize things. Who says developing something first means it's the main focus and/or the most important? What if developing something first means they want to get it over with quickly to focus on their main focus? Unless one is in the board room meetings, no one really knows the focus a company is gearing too.

Also, why does it have to be one or the other? Look at RPG's. An RPG with good game-play and a failed plot won't be successful. Even the old NES Final Fantasy games had a good plot to go with the game-play. One of, if not the most, popular Final Fantasy's would be FF VII. The reason it's so popular is it melds both game-play and story. The story is deep where they not only have spin-off games such as Dirge of Cerberus or Crisis Core, but also movies such as Advent Children. Without such a deep story, FF VII would not be as popular as it is today.

There will be games that succeed with only a good story or only good game-play or both. Generalizing it saying one aspect is more important than another isn't really sufficient.
 
I think you over generalize things. Who says developing something first means it's the main focus and/or the most important? What if developing something first means they want to get it over with quickly to focus on their main focus? Unless one is in the board room meetings, no one really knows the focus a company is gearing too.

Also, why does it have to be one or the other? Look at RPG's. An RPG with good game-play and a failed plot won't be successful. Even the old NES Final Fantasy games had a good plot to go with the game-play. One of, if not the most, popular Final Fantasy's would be FF VII. The reason it's so popular is it melds both game-play and story. The story is deep where they not only have spin-off games such as Dirge of Cerberus or Crisis Core, but also movies such as Advent Children. Without such a deep story, FF VII would not be as popular as it is today.

There will be games that succeed with only a good story or only good game-play or both. Generalizing it saying one aspect is more important than another isn't really sufficient.

The first Paper Mario game used the main series' excuse plot, but it was praised for its different gameplay style for an RPG game. Also, one will argue that FFVI is the more popular than FFVII.
 
- N is the game equivalent to manga Lance (and I didn't much care for manga Lance).

- How did he, and why did he, trick N? N is suppose to be a genius, why couldn't he see that he was being fooled? What was the point of tricking him in the first place? Couldn't they have accomplished their goals without him?

- Why is everybody depending on you to go save the world? I mean, sure, this isn't the first time the game has had a character tell you to go fight an evil doer but here it's just the worst I've seen so far in the series. Everybody's like "you're the choosen one" with no real reason why they should think that other then you have a good bond with Pokemon which is pretty bad reasoning if you ask me.

- I'm not even going to get into how I'm just going to ask why. Why did they need to build a castle under the Pokemon League? What purpose did that serve?

Yes, N and Lance had similar goals, but they are not the same. In PokeSpe, Lance wanted to completely wipe out humanity. N, however, simply wanted to separate humans and Pokemon. There's also another major difference that I'll address in the next point.

Ghetsis didn't simply trick N. N's origins are unknown, but it's clear that Ghetsis had Anthea and Concordia raise him from a very young age, possibly since his birth. N had his whole world shaped by Ghetsis. Up until N began his journey to separate humans and Pokemon, the castle he was raised in was his entire world. N was raised to believe that he was one of the "chosen heroes" that would awaken Zekrom/Reshiram and rescue Pokemon from humans. He was also raised to believe that humans did nothing but abuse and neglect Pokemon. Simply put, Ghetsis used N for his own designs; to have everyone release their Pokemon so that he would be the only person with Pokemon left, and therefore be able to take control of Unova. N was just a means to an end, and Ghetsis would've most likely killed him off afterwards, had it not been for the player character's intervention. And also, just because someone is book-smart doesn't mean that they can pick up on when someone is using them. It would've been impossible for N to realize on his own that his life was just one big masquerade. Ghetsis had complete and total control over N's life.

As for Ghetsis' methods...I imagine that Ghetsis is the sort of person that takes many different plans into consideration. I have a feeling that this plan in particular wasn't his first choice. However, with N basically doing most of the work for them, it was quite effective, at least in the beginning. But it was definitely flawed.

Moving on, yes, the player character is one of the "chosen ones." It's cliche, and a lot of stories use this plot. Honestly, I wouldn't mind a more concrete reason as to why the player character was able to awaken Reshiram/Zekrom. Maybe the player character was descended from one of the twin heroes of Unova. Or perhaps the player character is one of the people the Abyssal Ruins prophecy refers to. Anything other than "the plot demands it." But Pokemon Black and White was sort of a deconstruction of stereotypical heroes and villians. N wasn't your typical leader of the evil organization, and, well, you, the player character, didn't have to be the typical chosen hero. Also, the player character isn't quite alone in their efforts to take down Team Plasma, for the first time in the series. Cheren, Bianca, most of the gym leaders, and others do make an effort to assist the player character, mostly towards the end of the game.

And finally, the castle. Obviously Ghetsis had planned this years in advance, and he knew that the Pokemon League had to be taken out first, since the Pokemon League is considered the highest authority in most regions.
 
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I don't give a crap about any of the plots. Like, not even a little. I got to play with new Pokemon. That's it.
Game plots for Pokemon are just totally retarded. It doesn't have to do with gameplay hardly, it's just reading conversations between the characters. Ok so there's some kinda crazy team that tries to make your life myserable and puts you down for your in-game appearance of being a kid.

I only like it when it's had to do with Pokemon history that we've all been used to throught the whole series. Like the creation trio. But B&W was just weird. Since when did they have kings in the Pokemon world? I'm not sure, it was just a bunch of reading. I love the new legendaries, it's just their backgrounds are very boring.

@AuraCrystal - I totally agree!!

As for the poll, what do these people mean by sad? Like drama sad or pathetic sad?
 
Yes, N and Lance had similar goals, but they are not the same. In PokeSpe, Lance wanted to completely wipe out humanity. N, however, simply wanted to separate humans and Pokemon. There's also another major difference that I'll address in the next point.
Alright, he's not exactly manga Lance. They are different in ways but they both have a strong connection with Pokemon and both dislike humans who treat Pokemon badly. Also, they're both freakin' Pokemon telepathists!
P.S. Lance didn't want to wipe out humanity just most of the population.

Ghetsis didn't simply trick N. N's origins are unknown, but it's clear that Ghetsis had Anthea and Concordia raise him from a very young age, possibly since his birth. N had his whole world shaped by Ghetsis. Up until N began his journey to separate humans and Pokemon, the castle he was raised in was his entire world. N was raised to believe that he was one of the "chosen heroes" that would awaken Zekrom/Reshiram and rescue Pokemon from humans. He was also raised to believe that humans did nothing but abuse and neglect Pokemon. Simply put, Ghetsis used N for his own designs; to have everyone release their Pokemon so that he would be the only person with Pokemon left, and therefore be able to take control of Unova. N was just a means to an end, and Ghetsis would've most likely killed him off afterwards, had it not been for the player character's intervention. And also, just because someone is book-smart doesn't mean that they can pick up on when someone is using them. It would've been impossible for N to realize on his own that his life was just one big masquerade. Ghetsis had complete and total control over N's life.

As for Ghetsis' methods...I imagine that Ghetsis is the sort of person that takes many different plans into consideration. I have a feeling that this plan in particular wasn't his first choice. However, with N basically doing most of the work for them, it was quite effective, at least in the beginning. But it was definitely flawed.
N learned that humans are evil. Ghetsis is a human. N trusts Ghetsis. I think there is a flaw somewhere there. Although, you could say there are exceptions to this rule with N, he could just think most people are evil, not all. However, his actions seem to say that he feels that no human deserves to be with Pokemon. Now, it wasn't ever stated that he was only book smart. Sure, he's good at math but he's suppose to also be smarter then most humans, he should have seen through it. And sure, Ghetsis raised him but are you telling me Nature Boy never rebelled against him, especially with his dislike of humans? Also, you totally ignored my question of why.
And what work did N do? Okay, he woke the dragon up ,that's great, but how did Ghetsis even know he could do that? What would G-C-sharp do if N couldn't wake the dragon? I guess he could always use Genesect. Oh wait, he can't, because the guy he's using to take over the world told the organization that he doesn't have any actual control over that they couldn't. I mean, I know Genesect is not as powerful as the dragons, and he could always start up the project again in secret but that still doesn't make any sense for him to stop the project. A ledgey is still a ledgey, he could have still used Genesect for his plans. And even with N's protest he could still continue it without his knowledge. But no, he didn't, for some reason he didn't.

Moving on, yes, the player character is one of the "chosen ones." It's cliche, and a lot of stories use this plot. Honestly, I wouldn't mind a more concrete reason as to why the player character was able to awaken Reshiram/Zekrom. But Pokemon Black and White was sort of a deconstruction of stereotypical heroes and villains. N wasn't your typical leader of the evil organization, and, well, you, the player character, didn't have to be the typical chosen hero. Also, the player character isn't quite alone in their efforts to take down Team Plasma, for the first time in the series. Cheren, Bianca, most of the gym leaders, and others do make an effort to assist the player character, mostly towards the end of the game.
Actually, I've seen plenty of leaders of an evil organization that was like N. Of course, I've never seen one exactly like N but I have seen many misguided leaders of an evil organization. It's the same plot point used in many children TV shows and movies when they don't want any one to be truly evil. Heck, there are a few stories geared to adults that do that to.
In any case, if you aren't actually chosen, then you can't really call yourself a chosen one. I mean, I'm against prophecies in fiction but at least that would have been a logical reason for everyone to think you're going to be the other hero. Here, there isn't a reason it's just because... You don't talk? You have a baseball cap? You just started your journey? The cool-aid man is red? I don't know!!!
Also, it's cool that everybody comes to help but you know who would be really helpful? The Police. Call the Police. Or the FBI or SWAT or something.

And finally, the castle. Obviously Ghetsis had planned this years in advance, and he knew that the Pokemon League had to be taken out first, since the Pokemon League is considered the highest authority in most regions.
I'm going to try to type this but I'm going to laugh the entire time. So, he wanted to take out the Pokemon League so he thought the best way to that, the easiest way to do that, the least expensive, the smartest, and the fastest, was to make a giant castle underneath it. I ask you, were bombs out of the question. Was blowing up the league just seem like too silly of an idea? I think, blowing it up would have been a little been more effective at establishing his authority then building a castle underneath it.
 
N learned that humans are evil. Ghetsis is a human. N trusts Ghetsis. I think there is a flaw somewhere there. Although, you could say there are exceptions to this rule with N, he could just think most people are evil, not all. However, his actions seem to say that he feels that no human deserves to be with Pokemon. Now, it wasn't ever stated that he was only book smart. Sure, he's good at math but he's suppose to also be smarter then most humans, he should have seen through it. And sure, Ghetsis raised him but are you telling me Nature Boy never rebelled against him, especially with his dislike of humans? Also, you totally ignored my question of why.
And what work did N do? Okay, he woke the dragon up ,that's great, but how did Ghetsis even know he could do that? What would G-C-sharp do if N couldn't wake the dragon? I guess he could always use Genesect. Oh wait, he can't, because the guy he's using to take over the world told the organization that he doesn't have any actual control over that they couldn't. I mean, I know Genesect is not as powerful as the dragons, and he could always start up the project again in secret but that still doesn't make any sense for him to stop the project. A ledgey is still a ledgey, he could have still used Genesect for his plans. And even with N's protest he could still continue it without his knowledge. But no, he didn't, for some reason he didn't.

I did not say that N was raised to believe that humans were outright evil. I said that N was raised to believe that humans only abused and neglected Pokemon, and therefore humans should be separated from Pokemon. To N, Ghetsis was just another one of the seven sages. He had absolutely no idea that Ghetsis was manipulating and controlling him. When you want to have complete control over someone, the best time to start when they're young. It's basic human psychology. It doesn't matter how intelligent someone is. The fact that N had little to no social interaction with other humans just adds to this. How was he supposed to recognize that Ghetsis was orchestrating all of this? I'll bet that N and Ghetsis probably didn't interact with each other on a regular basis. And when they did, their interactions were probably kept short and to the point. This would be another crucial factor in having control over someone.

No one knows what Ghetsis would've done if N was unsuccessful in awakening Zekrom/Reshiram. Ghetsis probably knew there was a small chance that N wouldn't be able to awaken Zekrom/Reshiram. However he was willing to take that chance. And guess what? N did in fact awaken Zekrom/Reshiram. Why? Because N believed so strongly in his ideals. Because this is exactly how Ghetsis raised him.

And why did he go through all this trouble? Because he's a controlling, manipulative, egotistical monster who doesn't have a scrap of humanity left in him. That's basically what his characterization adds up to. It doesn't get any simpler than this.

As for Genesect...Ghetsis probably didn't have any interest in using this Pokemon. Plus he couldn't go against the wishes of N. Because N was made to believe that he was the one running the show. Ghetsis couldn't do anything that would make N think otherwise.

I'm going to try to type this but I'm going to laugh the entire time. So, he wanted to take out the Pokemon League so he thought the best way to that, the easiest way to do that, the least expensive, the smartest, and the fastest, was to make a giant castle underneath it. I ask you, were bombs out of the question. Was blowing up the league just seem like too silly of an idea? I think, blowing it up would have been a little been more effective at establishing his authority then building a castle underneath it.

Well, I'll try not to laugh while typing this, but honestly, bombs? Really? The only thing that would do is cause massive panic and chaos everywhere. Not really productive in my opinion. Bombs are not the smartest option. And I'm pretty sure Ghetsis had time and money to spare in the end. And, considering that these games are still geared towards kids, yes, I think blowing up the Pokemon League is out of the question. Not to mention you wouldn't be able to rematch the Elite 4 post-game.
 
It was terrible. How often have I seen plots in which the antagonist is a "good guy who is misunderstood"? Its execution was terrible. I got bored in between. And those who say that this thing had an "incredible" plot should actually play games with better plots! It is different from the rest of the games, I agree but pretty mediocre on its own.
 
Although it is true that the whole 'misunderstood villain' thing is used a lot, the thing is that it hasn't been used, or if it has, it's rarely been used in the Pokémon games!
I'm not saying the game was absolutely flawless. It had some minor and major flaws. But, in my opinion, I think it was fine as a Pokémon game. There are games with better plots out of there, but I just think it wasn't really a bad plot, and the game was good in general. By no means my favourite, but not terrible ata ll.
Just my two cents on this game. :)
 
The plot wasn't amazing, but in my opinion, it's the best plot a main series game has had so far. But I think Mystery Dungeon, and maybe Ranger and XD/Colosseum have better plots.
 
@Shadow Victini - Mystery Dungeon totally had a misunderstood villan, Grovyl. He was awesome. But he wasn't much of a villan?

@Neosquid - I think best had to be Platinum for sure. It was awesome going through the distortion world.
 
I did not say that N was raised to believe that humans were outright evil. I said that N was raised to believe that humans only abused and neglected Pokemon, and therefore humans should be separated from Pokemon. To N, Ghetsis was just another one of the seven sages. He had absolutely no idea that Ghetsis was manipulating and controlling him. When you want to have complete control over someone, the best time to start when they're young. It's basic human psychology. It doesn't matter how intelligent someone is. The fact that N had little to no social interaction with other humans just adds to this. How was he supposed to recognize that Ghetsis was orchestrating all of this? I'll bet that N and Ghetsis probably didn't interact with each other on a regular basis. And when they did, their interactions were probably kept short and to the point. This would be another crucial factor in having control over someone.
I wasn't saying you thought N was raised to think people are evil. I was more saying that from the evidence in the game, N seems to think all humans are evil (until he meets you of course). Then again, that's probably just my interpretation. It doesn't actually say he believes that out right so sorry about that.
I still have a hard time believing that he was being manipulated by Ghetsis. I can not see any way that Ghetsis could raise N to a point where he'd trust him like this. This is the guy who's constantly acting like bad guy. He can barely pull off looking like a good guy in front normal people; how's he suppose to have done that for all those years in front of N? And if he didn't visit often that makes even more reason to distrust him. Would you trust a guy you hardly ever saw? Besides that, it never seems like they have a close bond. N never calls him father and when he does mention him he talks as if he's a business associate not someone he cares about. The only way this would sort of make sense is if Ghetsis had tricked N into thinking that he came up with the plan himself and then later Ghetsis would volunteer to help him. But that's thrown out the window as it was stated that it was Ghetsis's plan not N's.

No one knows what Ghetsis would've done if N was unsuccessful in awakening Zekrom/Reshiram. Ghetsis probably knew there was a small chance that N wouldn't be able to awaken Zekrom/Reshiram. However he was willing to take that chance. And guess what? N did in fact awaken Zekrom/Reshiram. Why? Because N believed so strongly in his ideals. Because this is exactly how Ghetsis raised him.
If there is a hole in the villain's plan there is a hole in the plot. He had years to figure this out and he went with the plan that may not work. Sure, N had the ideals but really how did he know that would be enough to awaken the dragon? How did he know that the myth wasn't just a myth?

And why did he go through all this trouble? Because he's a controlling, manipulative, egotistical monster who doesn't have a scrap of humanity left in him. That's basically what his characterization adds up to. It doesn't get any simpler than this.
Okay, I get that but I'm just saying there are easier ways to go about it. Less needlessly complicated ways.

As for Genesect...Ghetsis probably didn't have any interest in using this Pokemon. Plus he couldn't go against the wishes of N. Because N was made to believe that he was the one running the show. Ghetsis couldn't do anything that would make N think otherwise.
He had no interest in make Genesect... A powerful creature, who's creation he green lighted, he had no intention of using it. Your explanations make no sense. Also, he could have just continued the project underground, would that have been too difficult?

Well, I'll try not to laugh while typing this, but honestly, bombs? Really? The only thing that would do is cause massive panic and chaos everywhere. Not really productive in my opinion. Bombs are not the smartest option. And I'm pretty sure Ghetsis had time and money to spare in the end. And, considering that these games are still geared towards kids, yes, I think blowing up the Pokemon League is out of the question. Not to mention you wouldn't be able to rematch the Elite 4 post-game.
Yes, because nobody has ever blown up any thing in the Pokemon games before. Okay, sure, that was just a lake but still, explosion. Also, seriously, explosion equals mass painc, giant castle emerging out of the freaking ground equals everybody's calm. Besides, people rarely panic in the Pokemon world, heck, they didn't panic when a giant ominous cloud was forming over Mt. Coronet or when there was an huge drought/flood going on.
Also, people keep saying how this is suppose to be the darkest of the main games but this seems very childish. If they did blew up the Pokemon League that would be dark, making a castle under it is just silly.
 
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