Primal Reversion

[EmpoleonProd]

Re: Ancient Devolution/Primal Reversion

Yeah, either Electric or Ice, I mean come on, Kyogre's signature move is SHEER COLD. An ICE-TYPE MOVE. I always thought originally Groudon should've been Ground/Fire and Kyogre should've been Water/Ice.

Sheer Cold isn't Kyogres signature.

It basically is. Groudon got Fissure and Kyogre got Sheer Cold. Nobody said signature moves were necessarily exclusive moves.

Signature move is a move that only a SINGLE (the rare case of a group having a signature move was the Swords of Justice but no longer) pokemon, as soon as other pokemon can learn it stops being a signature move, so no Fissure and Sheer Cold are not and never were the signature moves of Kyogre and Groudon because other pokemon can learn them.

Okay, let's not get off-track here, the only reason I mentioned them was for Kyogre's most obvious typing. So Mr. Smart Guy, let me put it this way:

Groudon has a myriad of Fire attacks as well as Ground attacks, so it made perfect sense that he gets Fire-typing. Likewise, Kyogre has a bunch of Ice attacks as well as Water attacks, so again, it makes sense to give it Ice-typing. Like I said, I can't force you to be correct.

Kyogre also learns Thunderbolt, Thunder and Thunder Wave so it could have been Water/Electric. But it doesn't matter anyway, the damn thing is pure Water, GF sometimes dissapoints me.

Ice is more justified because Kyogre's Ice-type moves are also present as counterpart moves with Groudon, like Fissure. But yeah, either way, unless they actually decide to change it like now, before it's too late, Kyogre remains pure Water.

 

[Tensho]

Re: Ancient Devolution/Primal Reversion

The thing is that Kyogre is already STAB water on top of the rain. Groudon only have the sun without STAB fire, so duh. Also, now he can't be burned.

 

[Windchild]

Re: Ancient Devolution/Primal Reversion

Groudon has a myriad of Fire attacks as well as Ground attacks, so it made perfect sense that he gets Fire-typing. Likewise, Kyogre has a bunch of Ice attacks as well as Water attacks, so again, it makes sense to give it Ice-typing. Like I said, I can't force you to be correct.

It made more sense for Groudon to gain the Fire typing due to his connection with Magma and that fact that he dwells deep within the earth's core. Not so much just because he learns a lot of Fire moves. Kyogre doesn't have quite the same connection with Ice, so I can't really see why Primal Kyogre should have gotten Ice just because it learns a lot of Ice moves.

My Shiny Groudon Lucy is crying

Because Ice is (usually) frozen water--always as far as the Ice-type itself is concerned.

 

[Team Gaara]

Re: Ancient Devolution/Primal Reversion

My Shiny Groudon Lucy is crying

Because Ice is (usually) frozen water--always as far as the Ice-type itself is concerned.

Sorry Lucy~

But Kyogre doesn't seem to have a particular connection to Ice.

 

[The Outrage]

Re: Ancient Devolution/Primal Reversion

Primal Reversion is being linked to Mega Evolution, and I've seen people conclude that this meant Mega Pokemon are the "original state" of those species. Apparently, the Japanese site updated with a few legends for the Hoenn Legendaries. Here's a post on tumblr translating them.

Long ago. Pokemon endowed with mighty power appeared in Hoenn. These two Pokemon subsequently came to be known as Groudon and Kyogre.
With a roar, Groudon made the earth rise up and the land spread far. The sun beat down upon it, and all around it was engulfed in scorching heat.
With a roar, Kyogre made the waters begin to overflow, and the sea spread far. All around the dark clouds enshrouded, and the torrents did not cease to pour.



There is more to the legend of these Pokemon….


The Paleolithic Age—-.
There is energy flowing throughout the natural world, and that energy brought Groudon and Kyogre overwhelming power.
These two, demanding ever more of the energy, often clashed with each other again and again, putting the people and Pokemon of Hoenn’s lives greatly in jeopardy.
When these two Pokemon became full of overwhelming power from this natural energy, future generations came to describe this state as Primal Recursion, and each of their forms were called “Primal Groudon” and “Primal Kyogre.”

So it seems that Primal Reversion isn't returning to their original state, but taking in the world's natural energies. Perhaps Mega Evolution is related by allowing Pokemon to tap into this "world energy" through the connection created by the Keystone and Mega Stone.

 

[Finicky Fennekin]

Re: Ancient Devolution/Primal Reversion

I'm thinking that (as far as actual in-game battling will go) these "Primal" formes will simply be Mega Evolution in all but name. That doesn't mean the plot won't explain them differently, but I feel like the activation, limitations, and general function will be like Mega evos. That is: only one Primal/Mega per battle, an item must be held to activate it, changes in stats/abilities etc.

Also, something I noticed was that the "Ω" on Primal Groudon's HP bar and the "α" on Primal Kyogre's is extremely similar to the Mega symbol on a Mega 'mon's HP bar. I don't have time to read back to see if it's been brought up before but I kind of like how they made the unique symbols for the two 'mons. (Meaning the individual formes might be referred to as i.e. "Alpha Kyogre" rather than "Primal Kyogre")

 

[Mitchman]

Re: Ancient Devolution/Primal Reversion

I like that subtle hint to Rayquaza with the Delta falling to Earth. Unless that's Deoxys? Anyway, my guess is that Primal Reversion is like I've been saying for legends only, taping into their respective power sources. My guess would be that the Primal Reversion name will stick, but the legendary title will change based on the Pokemon, like Lunar Lugia/Solar Ho-oh, Temporal Dialga/Spacial Palkia and so on so forth. The connection to Megas is that whatever happened in the war of Kalos, the Primal Reversion of Yveltal and Xerneas was so great, that they're powers spread throughout the world and were given to most of the Pokemon. In fact, I'm willing to bet what we're seeing is their Primal formes, permenantly stuck because of what happened.

 

[Silktree]

Re: Ancient Devolution/Primal Reversion

The connection to Megas is that whatever happened in the war of Kalos, the Primal Reversion of Yveltal and Xerneas was so great, that they're powers spread throughout the world and were given to most of the Pokemon.

Well, the official website says that the energy brought Groudon and Kyogre their Primal powers in the Paleolithic Age. In real life, that era started a whopping 2.6 million years ago and ended 12,000 years ago. The Kalos war was 3,000 years ago, but I guess that Game Freak may or may not care about accuracy. Still, it's called natural energy, which wouldn't be the case for whatever the ultimate weapon caused.

 

[Mitchman]

Re: Ancient Devolution/Primal Reversion

Yes, but what I'm getting at is that no matter what time period they were given their powers, Primal Reversion and to an extent Primal Pokemon(Legendaries?) are living forces of Nature. Much like how Groudon is basically a walking Volcano and Kyogre is the embodiment of the sea, the continuation would have Pokemon like Xerneas and Yveltal be Life and Death incarnate. Their powers and their legends being expanded by having actual ties to the word is a pretty great plot set up, and I'm pretty sure if expanded properly it can give new life to the Mythos, and also give a damn good reason to Mega Evolutions existence.

 

[Silktree]

Re: Ancient Devolution/Primal Reversion

Their powers and their legends being expanded by having actual ties to the word is a pretty great plot set up, and I'm pretty sure if expanded properly it can give new life to the Mythos, and also give a damn good reason to Mega Evolutions existence.

I don't see that yet. Primal Groudon and Kyogre just look like glorified versions of the originals right now. They may be more powerful and dangerous, but where is the added depth? It seems that the only reason they began to fight was their greed for more energy. I dare say that Origin Forme and Black/White Kyurem were more interesting, and I wasn't too impressed with those, either.

 

[Mitchman]

Re: Ancient Devolution/Primal Reversion

The added depth would come into play when they come around to the DP storyline, and get back to the creation of the world. Maybe. I mean for example the landmasses Regigigas had to move are created from explosion of energy when Primal Groudon came to be or something.

 

[Spikeheila]

Re: Ancient Devolution/Primal Reversion

Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre, according to a close friend of mine, is apparently larger than normal, by at least double. PGroudon even has a longer tail
It's not just frills and cool bits, it's sheer size getting changed as well.
Oh i found the pics my friend showed me early on during the e3.

Primal Kyogre size , primal groudon size

Dunno if this was discussed already, but i think its cool

 

[Kallyle]

Re: Ancient Devolution/Primal Reversion

Primal Reversion just got more interesting with Outrage's revelation on Primal Reversion. I'nm expecting Xerneas and Yveltal to get Primal forms now.

 

[Alola]

Re: Ancient Devolution/Primal Reversion

Yeah, either Electric or Ice, I mean come on, Kyogre's signature move is SHEER COLD. An ICE-TYPE MOVE. I always thought originally Groudon should've been Ground/Fire and Kyogre should've been Water/Ice.

Sheer Cold isn't Kyogres signature.

It basically is. Groudon got Fissure and Kyogre got Sheer Cold. Nobody said signature moves were necessarily exclusive moves.

Signature move is a move that only a SINGLE (the rare case of a group having a signature move was the Swords of Justice but no longer) pokemon, as soon as other pokemon can learn it stops being a signature move, so no Fissure and Sheer Cold are not and never were the signature moves of Kyogre and Groudon because other pokemon can learn them.

Okay, let's not get off-track here, the only reason I mentioned them was for Kyogre's most obvious typing. So Mr. Smart Guy, let me put it this way:

Groudon has a myriad of Fire attacks as well as Ground attacks, so it made perfect sense that he gets Fire-typing. Likewise, Kyogre has a bunch of Ice attacks as well as Water attacks, so again, it makes sense to give it Ice-typing. Like I said, I can't force you to be correct.

Force him to be correct? You aren't correct, you're just merely stating an opinion. Additionally as Norzan said, a signature move is a move that can only be learned by a single Pokémon or its evolutionary relatives usually in the same evolutionary line. Fissure and Sheer Cold do not fit this criteria. Additionally, they aren't even moves associated with Groudon and Kyogre-both Pokemon never used them in the anime, they never use them in competitive play, and there is no art, etc. that promotes such moves with the respective Pokemon.

Also, Groudon doesn't have a myriad of Fire attacks (I suggest you look up the definition of the word). By level up, it only gets a mere three. And with TMs an additional three, for a grand total of six. And Kyogre only learns 3 attacking Ice Moves, two through level up; not many. It's connection to Ice is very, very bleak if this your supporting evidence.

 

[Lysson]

Re: Ancient Devolution/Primal Reversion

Oh I completely forgot, if anyone has played Pokemon Mystery Dungeon explorers of Darkness/Time/Sky they would have met Primal Dialga. I'm jumping the gun but could this also be foreshadowing for the future of Dialga and Palkia? Or a little in sight into Kyogre and Groudon's origin?
Does anyone know the ability of the Primal forms? I have a odd feeling they'll come with great power but attacks could be random...

 

[Team Gaara]

Re: Ancient Devolution/Primal Reversion

Additionally as Norzan said, a signature move is a move that can only be learned by a single Pokémon or its evolutionary relatives usually in the same evolutionary line. Fissure and Sheer Cold do not fit this criteria.

Eruption and Water Spout do not either, but they do better fit the bill. Wailord's line also learns Water Spout, but it makes sense for a whale to learn that attack. Likewise, Cyndaquil's line also gets Eruption, but because it is based on a Volcano. Other than those very obvious choices, I believe only Groudon and Kyogre get those moves naturally which is why they are seen as their signature moves.

 

[Norzan]

Re: Ancient Devolution/Primal Reversion

Force him to be correct? You aren't correct, you're just merely stating an opinion. Additionally as Norzan said, a signature move is a move that can only be learned by a single Pokémon or its evolutionary relatives usually in the same evolutionary line. Fissure and Sheer Cold do not fit this criteria. Additionally, they aren't even moves associated with Groudon and Kyogre-both Pokemon never used them in the anime, they never use them in competitive play, and there is no art, etc. that promotes such moves with the respective Pokemon.

Also, Groudon doesn't have a myriad of Fire attacks (I suggest you look up the definition of the word). By level up, it only gets a mere three. And with TMs an additional three, for a grand total of six. And Kyogre only learns 3 attacking Ice Moves, two through level up; not many. It's connection to Ice is very, very bleak if this your supporting evidence.

Hell i see Kyogre more associated with Electric type than with Ice type because of the thunderstorm that goes with the heavy rain he causes and it can learn Thunder, Thunderblot and Thunder Wave. Also Primal Kyogre has these yellow things in him.

 

[Windchild]

Re: Ancient Devolution/Primal Reversion

Additionally as Norzan said, a signature move is a move that can only be learned by a single Pokémon or its evolutionary relatives usually in the same evolutionary line. Fissure and Sheer Cold do not fit this criteria.

Eruption and Water Spout do not either, but they do better fit the bill. Wailord's line also learns Water Spout, but it makes sense for a whale to learn that attack. Likewise, Cyndaquil's line also gets Eruption, but because it is based on a Volcano. Other than those very obvious choices, I believe only Groudon and Kyogre get those moves naturally which is why they are seen as their signature moves.

Don't forget Camerupt, which could learn it before even the Cyndaquil line could~

Either way, I'd really just like for Primal Kyogre to have a secondary typing, be it Electric or Ice, or...anything. Pure Water is just so...boring.

 

[BlackButterfree]

Re: Ancient Devolution?

Makes sense, Kyogre and Groudon are often associated with the word 'ancient'. I'm betting that it'll be a power-up, as in their ancient forms Kyogre and Groudon probably had a lot of Potential Energy, having not of used it up making the land and ocean full and clashing with each other. Hence, a short burst of Potential Energy is built up, and let out, resorting in something quite like Mega Evolution, but not quite.

As for any possible others, I'm betting on Rayquaza, Regigigas and Genesect. Rayquaza makes sense since the other two are getting, and in the ancient times, it wouldn't of wasted all its energy on calming Kyogre and Groudon. Regigigas is a Pokemon so old, it towed the continents after Groudon and Kyogre shaped them, so it seems like Regigigas will appear, as it's also related to the Reggies. It has Slow Start due to resting so long, and moss has started to grow on it. Unlike the others, I can see Ancient Regigigas being a power-down, but in turn, replacing Slow-Start with something else. Ten irony points if it boosts speed in general or in ability. Genesect is so obvious. It was ressurected from an ancient fossil and modified into a whole new killing machine, but I'm sure a lot of us would want to see an Ancient Genesect, the predator of the past. Probably pure Bug, Bug/Rock, or another type.

The whole idea of putting something back to its original state sounds like Fossils... Could they be related.

Also, I will die fanboying if we can get the Original Dragon via Ancient Devolution XD

To get the original dragon, you'd need to fuse Kyurem with both Zekrom and Reshiram at once. We'd never get that unless the DNA Splicers got a major overhaul.

Pokémon I could see getting an Ancient Devolution:
Magikarp/Gyarados: Magikarp's Pokédex entries state its ancient ancestors were far more powerful than it is today. Safe to assume so were ancient Gyarados and the Mega Evolution makes up for that.
Mew
Rayquaza
Regigigas
Arceus/Dialga/Palkia/Giratina/Uxie/Azelf/Mesprit: the first Pokémon ever have all certainly changed over time
Meloetta (complete with Ruby Slippers)
Genesect (reverting to its original form)

 

[Lugia trainer]

Re: Ancient Devolution/Primal Reversion

Is it just me or does primal Groudon look a bit like the false Groudon from Jirachi wish maker?