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Mafia Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 31st -- Endgame -- Mafia Victory!

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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

[You yourself have done nothing to make me choose Forgotten over you. It's just that I don't think Forgotten trying to frame you is likely at all, and I feel that if they were scum they'd be making a horrible move by trying to get us to lynch you. So for those reasons and others I have already posted, I just can't imagine Forgotten flipping mafia. And it's because I can't see Forgotten flipping mafia whatsoever, it's that 1% that I have to go off of.

The 1% lies in the chance that you are lying, and while I don't think it's likely that you are, I can't rule out the possibility. Of course, I can't rule out the possibility that Forgotten is trying to frame you, but I just can't imagine the mafia doing something that odd, so I personally rank it as >1%.

I hope this makes sense.

So it's more likely that if I were Mafia, that I would claim at the beginning of the Night Phase, completely unprompted? Knowing very well that I would be in question the following Day Phase. I was in no immediate danger, yet I outed myself. I understand that this is a confusing and difficult position, but I promise that I claimed in confidence. I honestly believed that I was the last Miller-like role.

If anyone else was in my shoes, would you have not claimed? Forgotten didn't even bother to claim, knowing very well that if he hadn't, he could have been investigated and had wasted our Cop's time. How is that at all a pro-Town move? It's always best if the Miller claims after Day One, it's absolutely in the Town's best interest.

I believe you, and I honestly do not think that you are mafia. I realize that you claimed for the town's best interest, but the possibility still lies that you could be lying, and to me, that possibility has a higher percentage than Forgotten.

All I am trying to say is that the way my mind works, I see it that you have a better likely hood of flipping mafia than Forgotten.

That's understandable. But do you still believe that I have a higher chance of flipping Mafia after GliscorMan, our confirmed innocent, has stated that it's better that we lynch Forgotten? He's even said:

I believe that the most beneficial course of action, in this case, is to lynch Forgotten. This is by no means a perfect solution, but I believe it to be the one that is most likely to yield a member of the Mafia.

Even if I were to flip Mafia (which I wouldn't, because I am Town), the best course of action that will yield the greatest results is to lynch Forgotten.

EDIT: Players that have yet to claim are voting for me? If that's not enough reason to trust me, then I don't know what is. We're letting players who have feinted claiming bandwagon on my vote count.
 
Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

I don't like being told to change my vote based on information that I do not know. As much as I trust Gliscorman, being a confirmed town member,I cannot, in good conscience, choose anybody other than Beck. I've already brought up my reasons four suspecting him, and his actions have been rubbing me the wrong way this entire phase. In addition, the majority of his recent posts are all WIFOM. I'll be shocked if he flips town. I honestly will.
 
Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

I don't like being told to change my vote based on information that I do not know. As much as I trust Gliscorman, being a confirmed town member,I cannot, in good conscience, choose anybody other than Beck. I've already brought up my reasons four suspecting him, and his actions have been rubbing me the wrong way this entire phase. In addition, the majority of his recent posts are all WIFOM. I'll be shocked if he flips town. I honestly will.

What exactly have I been doing that you find so suspicious? I need specifics, because obviously from my point of view I can't see it. If you don't believe me, you don't believe me. But that won't stop me from trying to convince you otherwise.
 
Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

If you think we're both Town, then why are you voting for either of us?

Simply because I would rather us lynch one of you over us not lynching at all. If we go into a no lynch the same thing will happen during the next phase and I don't want that to happen.

I would really prefer that we retract all the votes for you two and discuss someone else, but it seems we've gotten too far in now.

Fair enough. I can agree that one of us must be lynched, if for no other reason than it garnering the most information. What have I done, though, that makes you choose me over Forgotten?

EDIT: @Mijzelffan; now that GM has voted, what do you think?
if you had to vote for either Forgotten or I, who would you vote for and why? If I do have to die at the end of this phase, then it is what it is. But I would appreciate your input. If I've missed anyone, please let me know and I will mention them.

(deleting any mentions to avoid spam)

Gliscorman is not god who's single opinion dictates all, I'm sticking to my original logic. I honestly doubt there are two town strongmen in addition to a town godfather regardless of gliscorman's take on the matter, and I explained earlier why I'm more inclined to trust Forgotten's claim. With the current amount of information I have this is my take on it.


By the way I'll be in London for the week so my activity will be a bit more limited, though I might still vote. At worst I'll miss one nightphase and one dayphase (I'll be back friday night), shouldn't be that big a problem.
 
Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

I don't like being told to change my vote based on information that I do not know. As much as I trust Gliscorman, being a confirmed town member,I cannot, in good conscience, choose anybody other than Beck. I've already brought up my reasons four suspecting him, and his actions have been rubbing me the wrong way this entire phase. In addition, the majority of his recent posts are all WIFOM. I'll be shocked if he flips town. I honestly will.

Let's just put it this way. It is very hard for me to determine who to trust, especially in a game like this. Who I choose to share my information with is a very... Important decision to make. I cannot trust you, which is why I cannot give you the information, simply because said information is incredibly sensitive.

I find it harder to trust those who can't trust a confirmed Townie such as myself. Bodes ill, if you understand me.

@Mijzelffan; same goes for you, especially considering you've completely neglected to claim to me.
 
Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Unvote: Master Mew
Vote: Forgotten


Like I said, I'm at a loss between these two and GliscorMan is operating with more information than anyone else (save the Mafia themselves) - we only have him around for two phases and then any of that information that he doesn't share is lost to us for the rest of the game. I'm willing to follow his lead today. I don't have anything better to offer yet (a deadline extension might change things, but Phoenicks hasn't addressed that request yet)
 
Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Alright. I find Gliscor's judgment reliable. as he's one of the more experienced players, and he's been confirmed, so...
Unvote: Beck
Vote: Forgotten
 
Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

There's some information that you don't have, and that's why I'm voting for Forgotten.
Are you allowed to share, or has Beck asked you not to?
Plus, just wondering, has anyone claimed granny to you? Only, I have a night action and I don't want to die because of it. (I don't really want names, just a yes or no.)
Edit: because I trust your judgement (although I have a strong suspicion you don't trust me due to my lack of evidence (not my fault) in my claim) I'm going to
Unvote: Beck
Vote: Forgotten
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

I don't like being told to change my vote based on information that I do not know. As much as I trust Gliscorman, being a confirmed town member,I cannot, in good conscience, choose anybody other than Beck. I've already brought up my reasons four suspecting him, and his actions have been rubbing me the wrong way this entire phase. In addition, the majority of his recent posts are all WIFOM. I'll be shocked if he flips town. I honestly will.

Let's just put it this way. It is very hard for me to determine who to trust, especially in a game like this. Who I choose to share my information with is a very... Important decision to make. I cannot trust you, which is why I cannot give you the information, simply because said information is incredibly sensitive.

I find it harder to trust those who can't trust a confirmed Townie such as myself. Bodes ill, if you understand me.

@Mijzelffan; same goes for you, especially considering you've completely neglected to claim to me.

You die in two days. Claiming to you means putting trust not in you, but in your ability to find someone else trustworthy. You're currently saying you trust Beck. I currently suspect Beck of being mafia. I would rather not give you my claim at this point in time knowing it could end up with Beck. I could ask you not to tell him but I have no guarantee you won't, last time I offhandedly claimed to someone I later found my claim with at least four other people I never even spoke a word to (hi crackfox, hi beck, hi humandawn).

I'd like to see what Beck flips first, regardless of the outcome I won't have to worry about you sharing my claim with someone I suspect of being mafia. You're still alive next phase, so why the rush.
 
Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

There's some information that you don't have, and that's why I'm voting for Forgotten.
Are you allowed to share, or has Beck asked you not to?
Plus, just wondering, has anyone claimed granny to you? Only, I have a night action and I don't want to die because of it. (I don't really want names, just a yes or no.)
Edit: because I trust your judgement (although I have a strong suspicion you don't trust me due to my lack of evidence (not my fault) in my claim) I'm going to
Unvote: Beck
Vote: Forgotten

You already voted me. You voted Beck, then me, and now you re~voted me.
@Phoenicks ;
I think since the votes are so close, it would be fair to give another day for people to respond.
 
Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Are you allowed to share, or has Beck asked you not to?

I am not willing to share, but it isn't at the request of Beck. In fact, Beck doesn't even have the information that I'm using to make my judgement.

You die in two days. Claiming to you means putting trust not in you, but in your ability to find someone else trustworthy. You're currently saying you trust Beck. I currently suspect Beck of being mafia. I would rather not give you my claim at this point in time knowing it could end up with Beck. I could ask you not to tell him but I have no guarantee you won't, last time I offhandedly claimed to someone I later found my claim with at least four other people I never even spoke a word to (hi crackfox, hi beck, hi humandawn).

I'd like to see what Beck flips first, regardless of the outcome I won't have to worry about you sharing my claim with someone I suspect of being mafia. You're still alive next phase, so why the rush.

Funny, I never said I trusted Beck. In fact, the only thing I said was that I believed Forgotten to be the better choice for a lynch. That's not even close to the same thing. Please stop twisting my words and claim to me. I'd have a better idea of who to lynch if people like you would give me the information I need.
 
Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

I just woke up, a moment to collect my thoughts and review what evidence I feel is important?

OK, here goes.
Soulmaster I'll ask you a similar question. Why not change your vote? You said it yourself.
This initial accusation you posted while I was still typing up my own, but yours sounds more subtle to me.

The end of your Post #128 feels like you're subtly trying to imply that Soulmaster's scumhunt is in itself suspicious. Really, it's part of what made that attempt at scumhunting feel like a scumtell to me.

Echoing Mew's sentiments. I would appreciate everyone else's reads on Soulmaster. Seems unlikely at this point, but if you can fit it into the next half hour, that would be great.
Really, this could go one of two ways:
1.)You want us to come back and reiterate our thoughts on Soulmaster in the last half hour, but you see that it's unlikely for everyone to come back here in that time, or
2.)You want to seem like you doubted that Soulmaster was Mafia without actually removing your vote from him, having to do the work of proving his innocence yourself, or giving anyone else enough time to collect their thoughts and evidence.
It's just so vague a sentence while also giving the appearance of being concrete. I'm surprised no one has considered the first possible meaning.

Your roleclaim also feels somewhat suspicious to me. Not nearly as much as the other things, though. At first, I thought, why would Beck do that? Mafiascum says that can be an attempt to draw out town power roles into counterclaiming. But more recently, I've gotten to questioning that. If Strongman is normally a Mafia-aligned role, why would Beck claim it? It should be unlikely that there would be a strongman on the Town side for the Mafia to WANT to out. However, this game seems to be anything but normal as understood by the Mafiascum wiki.

What still bugs me about your claim is you purportedly having the Strongman power and another power. Soulmaster did one thing, GliscorMan's doing his one thing, I do one thing, even though I read as something else, and Forgotten and Midorikawa also purportedly do one thing.

@Hippowdon; some of your posts stand out to me.
How you came in already "getting good and bad vibes".
I see what your getting at Mew and I agree with most of it so it especially the part about soulmaster looking kinda scummy so on that note UNVOTE: Neonsands and VOTE: Soulmaster
This feels like you're just trying to hide in Master Mew's shadow.

Also, your insinuating that Phoenicks is lying to us doesn't sit well with me.


All that being said, I'm inclined to side with GliscorMan this time. He's confirmed Town and has info I don't.

EDIT: Oh, right, to answer HumanDawn's inquiry, if anyone can mess with time here, I'd be most willing to attribute it to Gandalf, though no idea which one of us would be Gandalf.
Also almost forgot:
Unvote: Crystal Onix
Vote: Forgotten
 
Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

I'd like to share my own thoughts on the "I will not tell lies" situation this doesn't even make sense to me but I think that is a lie in its self (or phoenicks didn't think that through well, not what I think) but feel like he has lied to me a few times already (with the roles and such) I'm not trying to bash phoenicks but it makes absolutely no sense to me.
This is a pretty serious insinuation and merits further attention - what reason do you have to imply that we should distrust the host? Given the circumstances (a host-confirmed Townie is trying to gather and organize information before he dies) I find your motives for this off-hand remark suspect.
 
Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

@Beck; I've made my points. I don't like the situation at all. I'm not here to be a deciding vote unless I have to be. I'd much rather keep an "outside looking in" approach to the whole lynch deal. I feel if I stay neutral enough between both sides, I might spot something without tunneling my vision.
 
Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Unvote: jda95

Vote: Forgotten

Still not particularly "convinced" one way or the other about either player but GliscorMan's word is the closest thing we have to decisive evidence one way or the other right now as I still find it difficult to single either of them out either way. At least when one of them is gone and we know the truth this issue will be put to the side and we can get back to more productive scumhunting~
 
Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

GliscorMan's opinion is not decisive evidence. You can't confirm Beck's secondary role makes sense, and explains his behavior, Just because it comes from a confirmed townie. In fact, I bet at least a few of the claims GM has recieved are lies.
 
Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Everyone:

Real life has conspired to prevent me from updating on time tonight. I will have the update in late -- and I'm not quite sure when. I'll give a 15-minute warning. The night phase will still end at 10 PM tomorrow night.
 
Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

There is nothing wrong with not claiming to a confirmed town, because if you have a PR, you claim, and they share with the wrong person, then you end up dead. And on the note of following GM's lead, without more information decisions should be based on in thread information and our own individual roles. Mafia generally get some pretty powerful PRs if used right. So having a strongman with some mysterious extra ability, and a rolecop with who knows what's out there, just seems way too OP in a game this size with so many players, one super powerful town role can easily break th game.
 
Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Sorry, I will have to be subbed out.
 
Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

GliscorMan's opinion is not decisive evidence. You can't confirm Beck's secondary role makes sense, and explains his behavior, Just because it comes from a confirmed townie. In fact, I bet at least a few of the claims GM has recieved are lies.

That's not to say Beck's off the hook, though. Fact is, both you and Beck have me spooked with your role claims, but GM also considered the same things I gonsidered, and I have to admit, out of the two of us, GM is the more experienced and informed player. My scumdar is still fallible, probably more so than many other people's as shown by the fact that I was certain Soulmaster was scum, and I don't even have a cop role. These are things I have to keep in mind.
 
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