Bashing the Older Generations

[BettyN]

There's a thread here that's about why people "hate Gen 4 and 5," and while that's a good thread and all, if you ask me, I see FAR more hate for the older games, especially RBY and GSC.

All the time (here and at other boards), I see people moaning about how the first two Generations are "broken," "glitchy," "have no story," "have boring Pokémon," "have bad graphics" (Well, what do you expect from GB games?), and so forth. Anyone who has the nerve to say anything good about these games, including those aspects people perceive as "flaws," is immediately jumped on and given a laundry list of reasons why they should drop Yellow or Crystal and go play Platinum, Black, or whatever. A certain insult that starts with a "G" might also get tossed around, depending on the board.

Why can't we just like what we like? It's OKAY to just like the earlier Gens, just as it's equally OKAY to like the later Gens. Nobody is in the wrong for having preferences, because we're all different people. The games all have their merits, even the ones you don't like or care about, and nobody's forcing you to play all of them, anyways. Just ignore the ones you don't like and focus on your favorites. Not hard at all.

I know I'm just a new member, but I'm also a long-time Lurker. I'm only calling it as I see it.

 

[homer.homs]

There's a thread here that's about why people "hate Gen 4 and 5," and while that's a good thread and all, if you ask me, I see FAR more hate for the older games, especially RBY and GSC.

All the time (here and at other boards), I see people moaning about how the first two Generations are "broken," "glitchy," "have no story," "have boring Pokémon," "have bad graphics" (Well, what do you expect from GB games?), and so forth. Anyone who has the nerve to say anything good about these games, including those aspects people perceive as "flaws," is immediately jumped on and given a laundry list of reasons why they should drop Yellow or Crystal and go play Platinum, Black, or whatever. A certain insult that starts with a "G" might also get tossed around, depending on the board.

Talking about graphics, if I'm going to compare it now, older games are far more beyond, especially the GB ones. But these games are the reason why we are still playing the present Gens. Applying it right now, we love the idea of putting the Pokemon game in a 3D graphics, but maybe in the next ten years, we are expecting a more enhanced 3D graphics for Pokemon games, and as we compare it to the older gens, we will be saying this again.

Personally, when Gen III came out for GB Advance, I was so amazed. My eyes are popping because of new graphic experience that GB Color didn't gave us for Gen II. Same with Gen II when it came out of GB Color and same comparison with Gen I for older GB versions.
As for the story is concern, comparison is just normal. Because every time a new Gen is being introduced, we are expecting a more enhanced story line than the previous Gen. And that's how we arrive on what we call "personal preference". Personally, I hate the story line of Gen VI. Gen V is much better. I also like Gen I to III storyline compare to Gen IV. But overall, Gen V is the best storyline compare to the other Gens. Some people might disagree with me. But that's my choice.

Why can't we just like what we like? It's OKAY to just like the earlier Gens, just as it's equally OKAY to like the later Gens. Nobody is in the wrong for having preferences, because we're all different people. The games all have their merits, even the ones you don't like or care about, and nobody's forcing you to play all of them, anyways. Just ignore the ones you don't like and focus on your favorites. Not hard at all.

You cannot take that away from other people. They can hate, they can bash. That's what you call 'freedom of expression'. If you got offended and the other person bashed your favorite Gen, then ask him the details why he hated it and defend yours.

After all, we're just playing the same game and I'm very sure, we'll be playing this in the next ten years.

 

[Ryme]

There's a thread here that's about why people "hate Gen 4 and 5," and while that's a good thread and all, if you ask me, I see FAR more hate for the older games, especially RBY and GSC.

All the time (here and at other boards), I see people moaning about how the first two Generations are "broken," "glitchy," "have no story," "have boring Pokémon," "have bad graphics" (Well, what do you expect from GB games?), and so forth. Anyone who has the nerve to say anything good about these games, including those aspects people perceive as "flaws," is immediately jumped on and given a laundry list of reasons why they should drop Yellow or Crystal and go play Platinum, Black, or whatever. A certain insult that starts with a "G" might also get tossed around, depending on the board.

Why can't we just like what we like? It's OKAY to just like the earlier Gens, just as it's equally OKAY to like the later Gens. Nobody is in the wrong for having preferences, because we're all different people. The games all have their merits, even the ones you don't like or care about, and nobody's forcing you to play all of them, anyways. Just ignore the ones you don't like and focus on your favorites. Not hard at all.

I know I'm just a new member, but I'm also a long-time Lurker. I'm only calling it as I see it.

bashing on gen 1 is both ways; there are quite a few people that started with gen 1 (and/or 2) that percieve everything that came after as trash, especially outside of Bulbapedia. This mostly creates a counterreaction were all people defending gen 1 are automatically bashed. Both sides are obviously wrong.

I think it is not bad to discuss what you percieved as good or bad about certain games or gens, as long as you keep it civil. Different people like different things, and I love talking with people about what they liked and why, as it may open new views for me. Obviously, "bashing" is not accepted, and often the mods will jump in and take care of this. Also, people experienced the game different. I started with gen 1, and this game was wonder for me. The whole pokemon thing was new and the hype was just beginning with the anime and stuff. Then came gen II, and this also was miracle for me as a kid. Colors? Omg! The time I spent in both games.... Thus for me, when playing gen I or II, I get all the good old memories from when I was a kid, which makes me experience the games so much different then it is for other people.

As for me, there is no Gen that I hate. I had trouble getting into gen 3 at first. Firstly because I was no longer a kid, but a teenager and my additude towards the games was different, less wonderous. Secondly because I was so afraid that this would be the end of gen 1 and 2, but also the end of many pokemon from that series forever as they were not included in R/S. Luckily, with the release of FR/LG this issue was solved and I learned to give gen 3 a chance and I love it now. Same for gen 5, when I first tried black/white I disliked all the new pokemon and the whole gen as a whole. No familiar faces, which made me view many of the new pokes as old pokes "rip-offs". However, I gave the game a chance (having learned from my gen 3 experience) and I have to say the gen certainly has a lot of things going for it, especially the story. Some of the pokemon introduced in gen 5 are now amongst my personal favorites, including Reuniclus, Chandelure, Zoroark and Golurk.

 

[BettyN]

Talking about graphics, if I'm going to compare it now, older games are far more beyond, especially the GB ones. But these games are the reason why we are still playing the present Gens. Applying it right now, we love the idea of putting the Pokemon game in a 3D graphics, but maybe in the next ten years, we are expecting a more enhanced 3D graphics for Pokemon games, and as we compare it to the older gens, we will be saying this again.

Personally, when Gen III came out for GB Advance, I was so amazed. My eyes are popping because of new graphic experience that GB Color didn't gave us for Gen II. Same with Gen II when it came out of GB Color and same comparison with Gen I for older GB versions.
As for the story is concern, comparison is just normal. Because every time a new Gen is being introduced, we are expecting a more enhanced story line than the previous Gen. And that's how we arrive on what we call "personal preference". Personally, I hate the story line of Gen VI. Gen V is much better. I also like Gen I to III storyline compare to Gen IV. But overall, Gen V is the best storyline compare to the other Gens. Some people might disagree with me. But that's my choice.

Of course, the graphics get better with each new generation. I think XY look amazing, and I also thought that HGSS and the Gen 5 games looked gorgeous. There's nothing wrong with preferring smooth, clean 3D graphics to blocky 8bit ones.

That being said, I don't need the absolute newest and shiniest graphics to enjoy a game. The graphics of RBY and GSC have held up just fine for me (and I actually find the original music to be *superior* to FRLG's), but I don't expect everyone else to feel the same way.

You cannot take that away from other people. They can hate, they can bash. That's what you call 'freedom of expression'. If you got offended and the other person bashed your favorite Gen, then ask him the details why he hated it and defend yours.

After all, we're just playing the same game and I'm very sure, we'll be playing this in the next ten years.

It's okay to have different opinions, but it's not okay to treat them like immutable fact. (And, it sure as hell ain't okay to throw slurs like "G****nner" around.) Many people think that the RBY and GSC storylines suck, while many others love them and find them intriguing. Who's right? Does someone "need" to be right? The same goes for any other Gen vs Gen discussion.

bashing on gen 1 is both ways; there are quite a few people that started with gen 1 (and/or 2) that percieve everything that came after as trash, especially outside of Bulbapedia. This mostly creates a counterreaction were all people defending gen 1 are automatically bashed. Both sides are obviously wrong.

Yes, I've seen those people, and I know exactly where they're coming from. Around 2001-2003, it started to become *seriously* uncool for the 10-14 age group, in particular, to like Pokémon, and that just so happened to be how old most of the original fans were at the time. They were bullied for continuing to like Pokémon after the fad had ended and at a time when they should've been moving on to "adult" games like Grand Theft Auto (or any other violent shoot 'em up). The fact that Ruby and Sapphire required (at the time) expensive new hardware to play and cut off all connections to RBY and GSC was only the cherry on top.

Many of these people left the franchise altogether around that time and only started to come back in the past 5 or so years when 90s nostalgia (and thus, nostalgia for Pokémon) started to become a thing, and they were either at the end of high school or in college, where there was considerably less peer pressure to look "cool" and ditch the trappings of your childhood.

Despite this, however, because of all the bullying they received for liking Pokémon way back when and the associated bad memories, they find it hard to like the games in any way besides a detached, nostalgic sense, so they respond by bashing on the newer gens and newer fans, even though those people weren't the ones who tormented them way back when. And, then, those newer fans respond by bashing them back, and a flame war erupts. It's all too sad. :-/

I think it is not bad to discuss what you percieved as good or bad about certain games or gens, as long as you keep it civil. Different people like different things, and I love talking with people about what they liked and why, as it may open new views for me. Obviously, "bashing" is not accepted, and often the mods will jump in and take care of this.

I agree. This why I like Bulbagarden more than certain other boards that I won't name. Most people here are able to disagree with each other while keeping things intelligent and civil.

I started with gen 1, and this game was wonder for me. The whole pokemon thing was new and the hype was just beginning with the anime and stuff. Then came gen II, and this also was miracle for me as a kid. Colors? Omg! The time I spent in both games.... Thus for me, when playing gen I or II, I get all the good old memories from when I was a kid, which makes me experience the games so much different then it is for other people.

As for me, there is no Gen that I hate. I had trouble getting into gen 3 at first. Firstly because I was no longer a kid, but a teenager and my additude towards the games was different, less wonderous. Secondly because I was so afraid that this would be the end of gen 1 and 2, but also the end of many pokemon from that series forever as they were not included in R/S. Luckily, with the release of FR/LG this issue was solved and I learned to give gen 3 a chance and I love it now. Same for gen 5, when I first tried black/white I disliked all the new pokemon and the whole gen as a whole. No familiar faces, which made me view many of the new pokes as old pokes "rip-offs". However, I gave the game a chance (having learned from my gen 3 experience) and I have to say the gen certainly has a lot of things going for it, especially the story. Some of the pokemon introduced in gen 5 are now amongst my personal favorites, including Reuniclus, Chandelure, Zoroark and Golurk.

This was pretty much my experience with Pokémon, although, sadly, I was one of those people who quit the franchise altogether after Gen 2. I don't have anything against the newer Gens, but I just can't connect to them like the first two, and I'm okay with that.

When I played Emerald (ie. my first non-Kanto/Johto game) for the first time a few months ago, I had many complaints about the game and neither the region or its characters sank in for me as well as Kanto and Johto, but I still found things to like (a lot of the Pokémon and even the music), and overall, I considered it a good game on its own terms. Would I recommend it to others? Certainly. Will it ever be one of my favorite Pokémon games? Probably not.

 

[Lysson]

I find with the fandom it seems to always hate the 2 newest generations, then worships the 2 before that. So currently gen V and VI get lots of hate (VI more then V due to it being newer and easier and fairly different) and gen III (which has always been kinda worshiped) and gen IV (which I personally love but used to get a lot of hate)

As for people hating the older generations, I think it's more so Gen I that gets the hate. The reason is unclear as to why but the reason I see the most is when a current fan of Pokemon tries to speak to an older fan the older fan has no interest in the new gens, which is fair enough.

In all fandoms there has always been a battle between fans of the original and fans of the new. I've always liked both, but people that do bash each other need to see that they still like the same thing.
It has even happened in history with religions dividing themselves and fighting each other (which is totally unnecessary and stupid) so I suppose it's just human nature to some.

 

[BettyN]

I find with the fandom it seems to always hate the 2 newest generations, then worships the 2 before that. So currently gen V and VI get lots of hate (VI more then V due to it being newer and easier and fairly different) and gen III (which has always been kinda worshiped) and gen IV (which I personally love but used to get a lot of hate)

There might be more to it than that. There's always been a pretty big dividing line in the fandom between Gens 2 and 3 (for obvious reasons), and I think the fandom, nowadays, is largely dominated by people who came of age with Gens 3 and 4, so those are the games that get the most love. Back when there were a larger number of original fans (ie. those who started with Gen 1 at the height of the fad) around, Gen 3 was far from worshiped (in fact, quite the opposite), and Gen 4 wasn't too popular, either, but it seems that most of those people left the fandom a long time ago, hence the shift in popular opinion.

As for people hating the older generations, I think it's more so Gen I that gets the hate. The reason is unclear as to why but the reason I see the most is when a current fan of Pokemon tries to speak to an older fan the older fan has no interest in the new gens, which is fair enough.

Generation gaps are hard to break. I'm definitely one of those older fans who doesn't have any interest in the newer games, but I do, at least, try to understand them and appreciate them for what they are. I would never outright bash any of them and say that they objectively "suck," because I know a lot of people really enjoy those games. Besides, in the end, we're all just a bunch of nerds. ;-)

In all fandoms there has always been a battle between fans of the original and fans of the new. I've always liked both, but people that do bash each other need to see that they still like the same thing.
It has even happened in history with religions dividing themselves and fighting each other (which is totally unnecessary and stupid) so I suppose it's just human nature to some.

I definitely agree. I think there will always be people who find it more satisfying to bash and complain instead of have fun, no matter what the fandom. I know that in almost every TV show fandom I've been in, there was more complaining about Seasonal Rot and writer screwups than actual praise for the show in question, and fights between early-season and later-season fans were a plenty. This is hardly different.

 

[homer.homs]

That being said, I don't need the absolute newest and shiniest graphics to enjoy a game. The graphics of RBY and GSC have held up just fine for me (and I actually find the original music to be *superior* to FRLG's), but I don't expect everyone else to feel the same way.

C'mon! You don't want to say that. If majority of people think like you, then GameFreak and Pokemon Comp will never enhance their games. The only reason why GameFreak and Pokemon Comp is enhancing the games every now and then is because of our opinions and thoughts. Without that, then there is no enhancement. So if the graphics and older gens are just fine with you, then why are you playing the newer games?

It's okay to have different opinions, but it's not okay to treat them like immutable fact. (And, it sure as hell ain't okay to throw slurs like "G****nner" around.) Many people think that the RBY and GSC storylines suck, while many others love them and find them intriguing. Who's right? Does someone "need" to be right? The same goes for any other Gen vs Gen discussion.

Sometimes, the "immutable fact" is the unavoidable truth that you experience while playing the game, especially for older gens. And it doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong because in this kind of discussion, opinions always neither truth nor lies coz it depends on the users' thoughts and experience and that is unavoidable. That is the General Truth, not just here, but everywhere.

Like this discussion, you disagree on having people bash the older gens. But on my opinion, it's just ok, coz that's their right. They bought the game, the played the game. And they have the rights to say whatever they want about the game. If you didn't like the opinions, counter it. But if you can't, then leave it. Coz the most important thing is what you thought about the game. I'm saying it again, you cannot tell other people not to bash the other Gens, coz it is their right to express their comments and opinions. Just like yours.

Peace!

 

[BettyN]

C'mon! You don't want to say that. If majority of people think like you, then GameFreak and Pokemon Comp will never enhance their games. The only reason why GameFreak and Pokemon Comp is enhancing the games every now and then is because of our opinions and thoughts. Without that, then there is no enhancement. So if the graphics and older gens are just fine with you, then why are you playing the newer games?

Give me a break. Just because *I* don't mind older graphics doesn't mean I expect everyone else to! Where have I posted, "The newer games suck! 3D graphics suck! Nobody should play them!" Please, point to a thread where I've explicitly bashed the newer generations.

*Sigh* This kind of reply is why I created this thread in the first place. It seems like some people just have this knee-jerk reaction whenever someone says that the first two Generations are their favorites. They don't bother to read what the older fan is actually posting and instead, assume that the older fan wants to slap their 3DS out of their hands and make them play Blue on a Game Boy brick.

Newsflash: I don't care what your favorite Generation is. Just don't bash mine, and I won't bash yours. That's all I'm asking.

(And, yes, I actually *do* only play the older generations, and I don't mind it a bit. I only played Gen 3 for the first time this year, and not counting fan games, the only non-Kanto/Johto game I've played is Emerald.)

Sometimes, the "immutable fact" is the unavoidable truth that you experience while playing the game, especially for older gens. And it doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong because in this kind of discussion, opinions always neither truth nor lies coz it depends on the users' thoughts and experience and that is unavoidable. That is the General Truth, not just here, but everywhere.

Which is exactly what I've been saying this whole time. Different people experience the games differently, and not one experience is right or wrong. It becomes a problem when people treat their own personal experiences with the games as universal truth.

Like this discussion, you disagree on having people bash the older gens. But on my opinion, it's just ok, coz that's their right. They bought the game, the played the game. And they have the rights to say whatever they want about the game. If you didn't like the opinions, counter it. But if you can't, then leave it. Coz the most important thing is what you thought about the game. I'm saying it again, you cannot tell other people not to bash the other Gens, coz it is their right to express their comments and opinions. Just like yours.

There's a difference between intelligent criticism and outright bashing. No, I don't think everyone should hold hands and sing "Kumbaya," but I hate all of this negativity that pervades the fandom, especially when Generation discussions come up. There are some people here (I won't name names) who literally don't seem to have a single positive thing to say about the games and only reply to threads when they want to argue with somebody. Doesn't it get tiring always being angry? Aren't we all still fans, in the end?

 

[homer.homs]

Give me a break. Just because *I* don't mind older graphics doesn't mean I expect everyone else to! Where have I posted, "The newer games suck! 3D graphics suck! Nobody should play them!" Please, point to a thread where I've explicitly bashed the newer generations.

*Sigh* This kind of reply is why I created this thread in the first place. It seems like some people just have this knee-jerk reaction whenever someone says that the first two Generations are their favorites. They don't bother to read what the older fan is actually posting and instead, assume that the older fan wants to slap their 3DS out of their hands and make them play Blue on a Game Boy brick.

Newsflash: I don't care what your favorite Generation is. Just don't bash mine, and I won't bash yours. That's all I'm asking.

(And, yes, I actually *do* only play the older generations, and I don't mind it a bit. I only played Gen 3 for the first time this year, and not counting fan games, the only non-Kanto/Johto game I've played is Emerald.)

Sometimes, the "immutable fact" is the unavoidable truth that you experience while playing the game, especially for older gens. And it doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong because in this kind of discussion, opinions always neither truth nor lies coz it depends on the users' thoughts and experience and that is unavoidable. That is the General Truth, not just here, but everywhere.

Which is exactly what I've been saying this whole time. Different people experience the games differently, and not one experience is right or wrong. It becomes a problem when people treat their own personal experiences with the games as universal truth.

Like this discussion, you disagree on having people bash the older gens. But on my opinion, it's just ok, coz that's their right. They bought the game, the played the game. And they have the rights to say whatever they want about the game. If you didn't like the opinions, counter it. But if you can't, then leave it. Coz the most important thing is what you thought about the game. I'm saying it again, you cannot tell other people not to bash the other Gens, coz it is their right to express their comments and opinions. Just like yours.

There's a difference between intelligent criticism and outright bashing. No, I don't think everyone should hold hands and sing "Kumbaya," but I hate all of this negativity that pervades the fandom, especially when Generation discussions come up. There are some people here (I won't name names) who literally don't seem to have a single positive thing to say about the games and only reply to threads when they want to argue with somebody. Doesn't it get tiring always being angry? Aren't we all still fans, in the end?

Bad news for you, bashing other gens are everywhere. Luckily we have the same thoughts(nearly) about older gens(I don't like them, I love them). And believe it or not, I'm still playing it.

FINAL WORDS: If you don't want to see other people bashing your favorite Gens, then you should avoid them. Coz I'm saying it again, this bashing thing is everywhere. Unluckily for you, you cannot stop it. Lol.

 

[BettyN]

Bad news for you, bashing other gens are everywhere. Luckily we have the same thoughts(nearly) about older gens(I don't like them, I love them). And believe it or not, I'm still playing it.

Just because other people are doing something doesn't make it right. And, there damn sure isn't anything acceptable about throwing insults like "G****nner" around. Just because these games were made for kids doesn't mean we have to act like it.

FINAL WORDS: If you don't want to see other people bashing your favorite Gens, then you should avoid them.

If I can throw a suggestion out there, I think one thing this site could use is fan clubs, or "safe havens" where fans of a Generation (or Pokémon, character, or whatnot) can discuss their favorite without having to get bombarded with a ton of bashing. People who want to criticize could still do so in the regular forums, while those of us who want more positivity have the fan clubs.

 

[Lt Surge]

As for me, there is no Gen that I hate. I had trouble getting into gen 3 at first. Firstly because I was no longer a kid, but a teenager and my additude towards the games was different, less wonderous. Secondly because I was so afraid that this would be the end of gen 1 and 2, but also the end of many pokemon from that series forever as they were not included in R/S. Luckily, with the release of FR/LG this issue was solved and I learned to give gen 3 a chance and I love it now. Same for gen 5, when I first tried black/white I disliked all the new pokemon and the whole gen as a whole. No familiar faces, which made me view many of the new pokes as old pokes "rip-offs". However, I gave the game a chance (having learned from my gen 3 experience) and I have to say the gen certainly has a lot of things going for it, especially the story. Some of the pokemon introduced in gen 5 are now amongst my personal favorites, including Reuniclus, Chandelure, Zoroark and Golurk.

I also had a particularly difficult time getting into Gen III. I couldn't wait for them to come out initially (I obtained a Japanese copy before the games came out here in the USA), but when I finally got an American copy my friends had stopped playing and it had become sort of taboo to like Pokemon at my age (I think I was about 13).
I bought Ruby and Emerald version but never beat the E-4 in those games. I then got into Fire Red when that came out. Only recently did I get back into playing through Gen III.

Gen IV was also difficult for me to get into, only managing to finish the story on Platinum because I was in the middle of nowhere with no other games to play.

Gen V and VI were very easy to get into however. I think people just need to remember that the games need to evolve over time.

 

[Silverwynde]

I find with the fandom it seems to always hate the 2 newest generations, then worships the 2 before that. So currently gen V and VI get lots of hate (VI more then V due to it being newer and easier and fairly different) and gen III (which has always been kinda worshiped) and gen IV (which I personally love but used to get a lot of hate)

Actually, Gen III got quite a bit of hate. It was only recently before fans changed their opinions on the games. Most were sick of the water routes and the constant surfing everywhere while others were sore that they couldn't bring over their old teams from Johto and Kanto. I can remember a lot of fans complaining that they couldn't stand Hoenn but now times have changed.

I myself enjoyed the games but I'm still more than a little upset that I had to leave my old team behind. I know that my original Venusaur is gone and there is no getting it back. That rather stings but now we have Pokemon Bank, which can prevent this from happening again.

As for people hating the older generations, I think it's more so Gen I that gets the hate. The reason is unclear as to why but the reason I see the most is when a current fan of Pokemon tries to speak to an older fan the older fan has no interest in the new gens, which is fair enough.

In all fandoms there has always been a battle between fans of the original and fans of the new. I've always liked both, but people that do bash each other need to see that they still like the same thing.
It has even happened in history with religions dividing themselves and fighting each other (which is totally unnecessary and stupid) so I suppose it's just human nature to some.

I'm a Transfan and we have a lot of the same problems: we have those who cannot stand the Michael Bay live action films (BAYFORMERS SUCK!), those who hate Beast Wars (TRUKK NOT MUNKY), among others. Most of them hold G1 as the "Gold Standard" but G1 was very flawed. The problem is, it can be extremely difficult trying to have a meaningful conversation with any of those fans. Mention that Beast Wars had a great story and they will brush you off. Mention the visuals of live action film and they may roll their eyes. Tell them that you actually like nearly everything from G1 until today and they won't take you seriously. Some will actually listen to you but most won't. And I've seen the exact same behavior with some Pokemon fans. Case in point:

Pokememes was mired in the Gen wars before Gen VI. Everything that was Gen V sucked. It didn't matter what. When I and other posters pointed out that yes, as much as we loved Gen I it wasn't flawless, we were pretty much ignored or blown off. We didn't know what we were talking about; didn't we know that Muk was so much better than Chandelure in looks?! (And no, I am not making that up.)

You can like whatever you wish to like, that's fine. But passing off an opinion as fact won't work for me. It never really has. Yes, I like all Gens but they all had flaws. I think a lot of fans forget about that.

 

[ocelotlrama jaguar]

Pretty much everything what Silverwynde said I agree with. Before the whole ORAS hype, I would commonly see people (including myself) bash the Gen III games. While my opinion of it has softened, I am still pretty apprehensive to call it a "great" generation because of the whole lack of backwards compatibility and the fear that they were rebooting the franchise. I should have been over it long ago since FireRed and LeafGreen as well as the Gamecube games pretty much ruled that out, but the fact that I went through an entire playthrough of these games thinking they were starting over completely sticks out like a sore thumb and ruined a lot of the experience for me. Then again, that's just me.

Now, as for people bashing RBY and GSC, well, that's their opinion. My opinion is that I didn't find GSC to be all that enjoyable because I felt the pacing was really bad. I didn't even fully enjoy their remakes because the same pacing issues were present. I didn't find it fun having to grind for experience points from Pokemon as low as level 10-15 when my Pokemon were at level 40+. Do I think GSC were terrible because of that? Of course not! They had plenty of things I enjoyed. Just because I don't enjoy them nearly as much as other games doesn't mean I hate them. The keyword is that they are my least favorite games in terms of gameplay, not games that I hate and want to bash to get under people's skin. When I criticise a game, I don't do it to rain on people's parades. I am simply giving my two cents because that is how I honestly feel about a game I paid money for. I have a mindset that nothing is above criticism, not even the Gen V games that I love. Still, I can see some people bashing Gen I and II games just to poke a hornet's nest of people who really enjoy them, but my suggestion to you would be just to ignore them. All's I can say is to enjoy what you like and don't take it to heart.

 

[BettyN]

I'm a Transfan and we have a lot of the same problems: we have those who cannot stand the Michael Bay live action films (BAYFORMERS SUCK!), those who hate Beast Wars (TRUKK NOT MUNKY), among others. Most of them hold G1 as the "Gold Standard" but G1 was very flawed. The problem is, it can be extremely difficult trying to have a meaningful conversation with any of those fans. Mention that Beast Wars had a great story and they will brush you off. Mention the visuals of live action film and they may roll their eyes. Tell them that you actually like nearly everything from G1 until today and they won't take you seriously. Some will actually listen to you but most won't.

Ironic that you bring up Transformers, because that's where the G-word originated from. (It just started with a "Gee" instead of a "Gen.")

And I've seen the exact same behavior with some Pokemon fans. Case in point:

Pokememes was mired in the Gen wars before Gen VI. Everything that was Gen V sucked. It didn't matter what. When I and other posters pointed out that yes, as much as we loved Gen I it wasn't flawless, we were pretty much ignored or blown off. We didn't know what we were talking about; didn't we know that Muk was so much better than Chandelure in looks?! (And no, I am not making that up.)

You can like whatever you wish to like, that's fine. But passing off an opinion as fact won't work for me. It never really has. Yes, I like all Gens but they all had flaws. I think a lot of fans forget about that.

Unfortunately, you might be fighting against human nature. It seems like in every single fandom out there, people don't feel that their opinions aren't validated unless they're, somehow, "true." It's as if having personal preferences and differing opinions and experiences is something to be ashamed of. You have to have a valid, "factual" reason to like something better than something else, and if you don't, then you "suck." I wish I could change that attitude, but, alas, I'm only one person.

 

[CynthiaLover]

I think you need to simmer down a bit. While it's true that the "Gen Wars" exist in every fandom in existence, whether it be Pokemon, Transformers, MegaMan, etc, you have to accept the fact that it's a war that neither side can win. While no one likes hearing something they love get bashed around, challenging it to such an extreme just makes it even worse. Defending what you love is fine, but when the battle becomes a never-ending back and forth, then that crosses a line. I'm not trying to defend either side here, but you have to realize that there are some people who will challenge anything that "violates" their passion with an equally vicious passion.

I'll use myself as an example. I've been with the series since the very beginning, even acting as a "flagship" of sorts in my old hometown, introducing Pokemon to my area. I started the blaze of Pokemon in my old hometown back as a kid, back when the craze was burning with a bright light. Over time, however, I've come to resent Kanto and Johto, sometimes even hate it, but I also have accepted that that's MY opinion, not someone elses. Despite that, I will never utter the "G" word, as it's WAAAYYY too distasteful and disrespectful. I admit, when Gen VI appeared with so many older Pokemon and so few newer ones, I blew a fuse. But after a while and the initial shock blew over, I simmered down and just accepted it. They are, after all, just games. I still despise Kanto and Johto, but I accept the fact that they're there and that they have their fans. I'm just not one of them, that's all, so I've just come to grips that they exist with their own fandom. End of story.

The fact is that it's human nature to butt heads and lock horns like rams fighting over a mate. Politics should give you a clear example of that. You can't make EVERYONE agree with you, and it's much easier to make them disagree with you. The thing is not to let it get the better of you. I know that no one likes standing aside while something they love is pummeled to a pulp, but if you charge right in and pummel what they love the same way, it'll create these gen wars. I learned this over time and just decided to go with the flow. There are times I will blow a fuse over such subjects, but after it blows over, I just shrug it off and move on. It's impossible to force someone to agree with you; you can point out the pros of such things, but it's impossible to force them to change their minds just because YOU like it. That's called "freedom of expression", and every human as that right.

In truth, stuff like this is bound to occur, you just have to roll with it and not let it get to you. Stating your opinion is fine, but if you let that "opinion" gain a life of its own, then you're no better than the people who are challenging you. Some people will disagree and fight just for the sake of it, making the whole argument rendered moot. Loving what you love is fine, along with stating that you love it, but when someone "challenges" you, don't take the bait. Defending it is fine, but when that "defense" goes too far and it erupts into a flame war, then that's crossing a line, as well as being ironic.

If you've played Gen V, then recall what Prof Juniper said to N back in Chargestone Cave: "Your opinion is understandable. It happens to be different from mine, which is equally understandable. How about if all people get to decide for themselves how to relate to Pokémon?... Well, I didn't expect him to change his mind right away. But I hope he'll spend a little time trying to understand how others feel." Try taking that into consideration before head smashing into other players, otherwise they'll just smash right back. I know that the hate for all gens is pretty well established; the fact remains that some like one thing while some don't. You can't force someone to agree with you. I'm not trying to force you to agree with my views right now, I'm just stating what I feel and trying to help decipher the situation to you in a different light so that everyone can understand it better.

The fact is that this is a war that no one can win. Fighting it is simply a lost cause, but some will keep stoking the flames almost for the sake of it. To be honest, you're sorta doing that right now. But that's water under the bridge. The mature thing to do is to accept all viewpoints before charging headlong in the battle. By doing that, you will show your side of the argument, but also will understand their side of it. Being narrow-minded won't get you very far. I may want nothing to do with Kanto and Johto, but I understand that they exist for a reason, they have their fans, and they have their benefits. I just prefer what I like and not what I don't like, but that doesn't mean I haven't learned how to accept it. I may have a moment here and there, but I've come to the point where it doesn't really matter to me anymore,and, besides, it really has no impact on the situation either. So I don't stoke the flames in either favor as an end result.

The big reason I like newer gens is because it brings something different to the table, gives you new options and ideas. I often use newer gens and games to try different ideas, while also keeping older ideas around for other purposes. There are some fans who like the "old and familiar" while there are some who like the "new and now", you just have to accept it. Challenging their view with the same fiery passion/hatred as they challenge yours won't get you very far, and it makes you no better than them. It's a war that no one can win, simple as that. So the best thing is to state your opinion WITHOUT it erupting like a volcano. Just because THEY do so doesn't mean that YOU have to do the same. Defending what you love is fine, but taking it to an extreme puts you in the same boat as those who are defending what they love. So the best solution is to either state how you feel in a mature fashion or just simply ignore it. That may not be the easiest thing to do, but if you can take it in stride and not let it get the better of you, then that'll get you much further, in Pokemon and in life.

 

[SwifTer]

People should just simply respect that people like certain generations more then others and leave it at that. I personally think each Generation of Pokemon has done extremely well for it's time it was made in. When it comes to a lot of hate with R/B/Y you have to remember it's also one of the most loved generations too.

 

[Norzan]

People bash the older generations? Since when? Or do you mean actual legit criticism to Gen 1 and 2 games unlike the "Gen 1 fans" who bash everything after Gen 2. If there was drinking game where you had to take a shot everytime someone said "Pokemon went downhill after Gen 2", i would die of liver failure 10 times over.

There's no such thing as bashing older generations, the only "bashing" is the result of "Gen 1 fans" constantly bashing Gen 3 and onward without actualy playing them, just taking a quick glance at the pokemon and saying they look stupid without even doing a research of what they actualy based them of and saying the originals are the best (Even though in my eyes Gen 1 had some of the laziest designs in the franchise).

Wanna know an actual Gen that has been bashed to a bloody pulp? Gen 5, this gen is easily the most hated, bashed and loathed gen of all, the aumont of people who say pokemon went to shit in this gen is astounding. It's not my favourite, but doesn't deserve the bashing it gets.

Last, you shouldn't just see a single thread and assume the older generations are more bashed than the new ones, just go around some youtube videos about pokemon (specially Top Generations) and you'll see the aumont of bashing the new gens get compared to the older ones. I don't hate any gen by the way, each has their pros and cons.

Just my 2 cents on this topic, not really interested in discussing more of this.

 

[BettyN]

People bash the older generations? Since when? Or do you mean actual legit criticism to Gen 1 and 2 games unlike the "Gen 1 fans" who bash everything after Gen 2. If there was drinking game where you had to take a shot everytime someone said "Pokemon went downhill after Gen 2", i would die of liver failure 10 times over.

Because, their complaints about Gen 3 and later aren't "legit," as well? And, many of us LIKE the things people criticize about RBY and GSC (like the smaller-scale stories or connected, easier-to-navigate regions).

There's no such thing as bashing older generations, the only "bashing" is the result of "Gen 1 fans" constantly bashing Gen 3 and onward without actualy playing them, just taking a quick glance at the pokemon and saying they look stupid without even doing a research of what they actualy based them of and saying the originals are the best (Even though in my eyes Gen 1 had some of the laziest designs in the franchise).

Have I uniformly bashed all of Gens 3 and later? Nope. In fact, I actually LIKE things from the later games, even the ones I haven't played and have no care to. I can name plenty of "good" things that (I think) Gens 3 and later brought to the table.

But, younger fans who hate on the first two Gens? Most of them would be hard-pressed to name things they like from those games. (As it seems.) And, that's a problem.

Wanna know an actual Gen that has been bashed to a bloody pulp? Gen 5, this gen is easily the most hated, bashed and loathed gen of all, the aumont of people who say pokemon went to shit in this gen is astounding. It's not my favourite, but doesn't deserve the bashing it gets.

No, it doesn't, but I can see why it was bashed so much--It was a hard reboot that flung you into a brand new region with nothing but brand new Pokémon (not even Pikachu made the cut). On top of that, many of those new Pokémon were obvious expies of older ones. It's understandable that older fans weren't going to take well to that, especially coming right off the nostalgia-fest that was HGSS.

Last, you shouldn't just see a single thread and assume the older generations are more bashed than the new ones, just go around some youtube videos about pokemon (specially Top Generations) and you'll see the aumont of bashing the new gens get compared to the older ones. I don't hate any gen by the way, each has their pros and cons.

YouTube is a cesspool. Everything gets bashed there because the site is overrun with trolls who have nothing better to do.

On the other hand, at actual Pokémon fansites (not just this one), it seems like people get flayed alive for preferring the older games over newer ones, especially, if by "newer ones," we mean Gen 3. Say anything even slightly negative about Hoenn or its characters, and get your flamesuit ready. At least, that's how it seems in some places...

 

[Norzan]

@BettyN; You can criticize the Gen 3 games and onward because you ACTUALY played them (from what i have seen from your posts), you are allowed to have an opinion on them, you are not one of the "Gen 1 fans" a lot of people of the Internet hates, wanna know what actual "Gen 1 fan" is?

A person that ONLY played the two first gens, assume everything after Gen 2 is shit because this person is trapped in the 90s, it never played Gen 3 and onward but thinks it can have an actual opinion even though it didn't played, you can't have an opinion on something if you didn't even played it, you can't just take a quick glance at the gen and say it's crap. Judging a whole gen based on designs is one of the stupidiest things because you don't have to use the ones you don't like, by this logic i would hate Gen 1 with a passion. Also, it refuses to play anything after Gen 2.

And no, people didn't hate Gen 5 because of that, they hated it because it has "An Ice Cream and a Garbage Bag pokemon", they hated a whole gen and say pokemon went to shit because of 5 pokemon in 156, they completely disregarded a sun moth, ghost robot, steel mole, a dragon with an axe for a jaw and other greatlly designed pokemon because it had an ice cream and garbage pokemon, a whole gen was shit to them because of 5 fucking pokemon that they don't even have to use.

I criticize Gen 3 and onward for their flaws when i have the chance to and i don't get "flayed" alive. You rather too sensitive about other people's opinions, Gen 4 is my favourite and whenever i see someone saying its crap, i don't care, i care only about what i like and not what other people like.

 

[BettyN]

@BettyN; You can criticize the Gen 3 games and onward because you ACTUALY played them (from what i have seen from your posts), you are allowed to have an opinion on them, you are not one of the "Gen 1 fans" a lot of people of the Internet hates, wanna know what actual "Gen 1 fan" is?

Actually, I've only played up to Gen 3. I'm still familiar with 4 and later, however.

A person that ONLY played the two first gens, assume everything after Gen 2 is shit because this person is trapped in the 90s

So? If they enjoy those games the best, then what's the problem? Most older fans are well into their 20s now, so they may not have all of the time in the world to buy every new handheld and game. Plus, many of them ONLY like Pokémon because of the childhood nostalgia. Is that wrong?

it never played Gen 3 and onward but thinks it can have an actual opinion even though it didn't played, you can't have an opinion on something if you didn't even played it, you can't just take a quick glance at the gen and say it's crap. Judging a whole gen based on designs is one of the stupidiest things because you don't have to use the ones you don't like, by this logic i would hate Gen 1 with a passion. Also, it refuses to play anything after Gen 2.

Referring to a person as "it" isn't anything but insulting and inflammatory. Stop it.

And, people are allowed to have opinions if they want to. You aren't the Grand Poobah of Pokémon Fandom. Nobody is. If you see someone bashing your favorite Gen, just ignore them and walk away. They're just as much allowed to have their opinion as you are allowed to have yours.

And no, people didn't hate Gen 5 because of that, they hated it because it has "An Ice Cream and a Garbage Bag pokemon", they hated a whole gen and say pokemon went to shit because of 5 pokemon in 156, they completely disregarded a sun moth, ghost robot, steel mole, a dragon with an axe for a jaw and other greatlly designed pokemon because it had an ice cream and garbage pokemon, a whole gen was shit to them because of 5 fucking pokemon that they don't even have to use.

The complaining about the Trash Bag and the Ice Cream Cone was part of the larger "Hard Reboot" complaint. Older fans thought there were too many new Pokémon and that too many of them were obvious expies, and they really just wanted to use their old favorites again. Again, the fact that BW came out so soon after the overly-nostalgic HGSS only made things worse.

i don't care, i care only about what i like and not what other people like.

Then, you shouldn't care so much when early Gen fans criticize the later Gens.