Speculation Should Primal Kyogre had been Water/Electric instead?

[TEMMEC]

I love the idea. I love the fact that you are thinking outside the box with this one. It would balance out the typings more, making Groudon's ground attacks deal neutral damage instead of 1/2 damage. This would all make sense if not for a couple of reasons:

1. New Abilities: how the new abilities work make this idea sort of pointless in a Groudon vs Kyogre 1v1. In a 1v1 Primal battle, Groudon will always win because his speed is slower allowing his Desolate Land ability proc last and stick. This gives him the inevitable advantage and easy 2HKO or 3HKO with Solarbeam. Kyogre has the advantage in everything but this area: better movepool, better typing, better stat distribution, etc. Why should Kyogre have an even greater advantage over Groudon?

2. Must-Have Moves: Just as Thunder is a must-have on even basic Kyogre, Solarbeam is a must-have on any Groudon. Even in a non-1v1 situation, they both benefit from their respective moves much too much. But with this in mind, you wouldn't ask to have Groudon be part grass type because of his must-have would you? Just the same, Kyogre is fine without being electric type.

3. Balancing: Groudon was initially just ground type. This means that he does not receive STAB from the types of attacks that benefit from the Drought being active, whereas Kyogre does. This was unfair initially, making Groudon the lesser of the two. Furthermore, Kyogre having the electric typing means that it would receive a STAB bonus from a 100% accuracy Thunder attack. That would likely make Primal Kyogre god-tier along with Mega-Rayquaza, which would be excessive. As it is right now, the two Primal Pokemon are perfectly balanced and in a 6v6 situation, either could beat the other. Thank you.

TEMMEC

 

[Ampharos King]

For the most part, Game Freak decides a Pokémon's typing based on whether that typing is appropriate for the Pokémon's design, not to resolve any balancing issues.

Primal Groudon is part Fire-type because it produces heat energy, perhaps even more so, than it ever did as an ordinary Groudon. Ordinary Groudon does not have magma flowing out of its cracks, nor can it "create land" just by taking a single step (i.e. from boiling ocean water in its proximity, which is where it fought Primal Kyogre initially). Heat energy + ability to create earth = Ground/Fire typing.

Now look at Primal Kyogre. Nowhere in any of the source material does it mention the Pokémon emitting electrical energy out of its body. Yes, PK is a bit more luminescent than ordinary Kyogre, but its internal lights are not explicitly attributed to electricity. All we know of Primal Kyogre is that it can create oceans every time it moves in the water. In this case, a pure Water-typing makes sense for the Pokémon. No other typing fits with PK's lore.

 

[Vegito]

For the most part, Game Freak decides a Pokémon's typing based on whether that typing is appropriate for the Pokémon's design, not to resolve any balancing issues.

Primal Groudon is part Fire-type because it produces heat energy, perhaps even more so, than it ever did as an ordinary Groudon. Ordinary Groudon does not have magma flowing out of its cracks, nor can it "create land" just by taking a single step (i.e. from boiling ocean water in its proximity, which is where it fought Primal Kyogre initially). Heat energy + ability to create earth = Ground/Fire typing.

Now look at Primal Kyogre. Nowhere in any of the source material does it mention the Pokémon emitting electrical energy out of its body. Yes, PK is a bit more luminescent than ordinary Kyogre, but its internal lights are not explicitly attributed to electricity. All we know of Primal Kyogre is that it can create oceans every time it moves in the water. In this case, a pure Water-typing makes sense for the Pokémon. No other typing fits with PK's lore.

Totally disagree again. Because there is no reason to make Primal Groudon dual types. Here is something you may or may not have considered. The lore specifically states that the two of them (PK and PG) were completely equal in the past. Matching blow for blow. Nothing could stop this battle until Raquaza intervened. That means their types and abilities and skills are supposed to be counter to the other. Groudon being "ground" type is countered by water type Kyogre. To add Fire, yes Water counters them both, however however since Groudon goes dual type in Primal form so should Kyogre. They are equal and opposites. So Though it would be pointless (and it is pointless when it comes to these two to give Groudon fire typing) to give Kyogre a electric typing, it would be countered by the ground in Groudon. Do you understand what I am saying? So basically because they are equal and opposites to the exact it makes since to give Kyogre electric type typing. And no it wouldn't give Groudon an advantage because they could have make the ability that Kyogre have also have a property that (because of the primordial rainfall) makes it so Ground attacks are not super effective.

 

[GhostFingers]

I see where the water/electric fans are coming from, in that it does sort of make sense, but just not enough to convince me, I'm afraid. I've always seen Groudon as a legendary version of Numel/Camerupt (ground/fire). Therefore PG being ground/fire fits the pattern. Kyogre, on the other hand, seems more like the legendary version of Wailmer/Wailord (pure water). It does seem sad that it missed out on an extra type, though, where the rest of the weather trio have two. (Xerneas all over again.) If pushed to choose anything i'd go for ice. STAB ice beam against PG (neutral resist) in any weather isn't going to be taken lightly.

 

[Ampharos King]

Here is something you may or may not have considered. The lore specifically states that the two of them (PK and PG) were completely equal in the past. Matching blow for blow. Nothing could stop this battle until Raquaza intervened.

The game lore implies that Groudon and Kyogre were simply trying to expand the land and sea, respectively, but their areas keep getting covered by the other's abilities.

That means their types and abilities and skills are supposed to be counter to the other. Groudon being "ground" type is countered by water type Kyogre. To add Fire, yes Water counters them both, however however since Groudon goes dual type in Primal form so should Kyogre.

Again, Primal Groudon is immune to Primal Kyogre's water attacks. Primal Kyogre is immune to Primal Groudon's Fire-type attacks. As long as they use their abilities to protect themselves, the battle is fought at a stalemate.

Do you understand what I am saying?

Yes, Primal Groudon doesn't need a secondary typing because it is already weak (in theory) to Primal Kyogre's STAB. There is a major balance issue when one mascot legendary has a type advantage over the other.

But there's the thing. Game Freak doesn't care about that balance stuff when they design Pokémon. They assign types to Pokémon according to the Pokémon's appearance and abilities. Primal Groudon can emit heat and create magma from its body, so giving it a Fire-type makes sense.

Meanwhile, does Kyogre have the ability to conjure electricity like Zekrom? Or the ability to usher in thunderstorms like Thundurus? Kyogre may have the ability to conjure heavy rains, but not electricity from storm clouds. So the Water/Electric typing still doesn't make sense.

they could have make the ability that Kyogre have also have a property that (because of the primordial rainfall) makes it so Ground attacks are not super effective.

Desolate Land and Primordial Sea have been established as stronger versions of Drought and Drizzle, respectively. The intense sunlight condition, brought out by Drought, powers up Fire-type moves by 50% and weakens Water-type moves by 50%. The opposite is true for those types under heavy rain.

But instead of weakening the opposite type's moves, DL and PS essentially create a weather condition that make their damage output 0.

And in real life, it makes sense. Heavy rains weaken the intensity of blazes and make them easier to put out. Heavy sunlight makes it easier for water to evaporate. The damage output of those moves has to be lower. However, phenomenon related to the Ground-type such as earthquakes are not hampered by either condition. Even if the lands are overflowed with water due to Desolate Sea, "seaquakes" are still very much possible in real life because the tectonic plates that contribute to these phenomena are still very much present. I don't understand how a Ground-type move would not cause damage in this case.

 

[Vegito]

The game lore implies that Groudon and Kyogre were simply trying to expand the land and sea, respectively, but their areas keep getting covered by the other's abilities.

That means their types and abilities and skills are supposed to be counter to the other. Groudon being "ground" type is countered by water type Kyogre. To add Fire, yes Water counters them both, however however since Groudon goes dual type in Primal form so should Kyogre.

Again, Primal Groudon is immune to Primal Kyogre's water attacks. Primal Kyogre is immune to Primal Groudon's Fire-type attacks. As long as they use their abilities to protect themselves, the battle is fought at a stalemate.

Do you understand what I am saying?

Yes, Primal Groudon doesn't need a secondary typing because it is already weak (in theory) to Primal Kyogre's STAB. There is a major balance issue when one mascot legendary has a type advantage over the other.

But there's the thing. Game Freak doesn't care about that balance stuff when they design Pokémon. They assign types to Pokémon according to the Pokémon's appearance and abilities. Primal Groudon can emit heat and create magma from its body, so giving it a Fire-type makes sense.

Meanwhile, does Kyogre have the ability to conjure electricity like Zekrom? Or the ability to usher in thunderstorms like Thundurus? Kyogre may have the ability to conjure heavy rains, but not electricity from storm clouds. So the Water/Electric typing still doesn't make sense.

they could have make the ability that Kyogre have also have a property that (because of the primordial rainfall) makes it so Ground attacks are not super effective.

Desolate Land and Primordial Sea have been established as stronger versions of Drought and Drizzle, respectively. The intense sunlight condition, brought out by Drought, powers up Fire-type moves by 50% and weakens Water-type moves by 50%. The opposite is true for those types under heavy rain.

But instead of weakening the opposite type's moves, DL and PS essentially create a weather condition that make their damage output 0.

And in real life, it makes sense. Heavy rains weaken the intensity of blazes and make them easier to put out. Heavy sunlight makes it easier for water to evaporate. The damage output of those moves has to be lower. However, phenomenon related to the Ground-type such as earthquakes are not hampered by either condition. Even if the lands are overflowed with water due to Desolate Sea, "seaquakes" are still very much possible in real life because the tectonic plates that contribute to these phenomena are still very much present. I don't understand how a Ground-type move would not cause damage in this case.

Groudon has the upper hand with ground type attacks.