Moves & abilities that need buffing/nerfing

[Zeb]

Now that we have so many moves and abilities, there's probably some that could use a buff (or even a nerf as the case may be)! Let's use this thread to suggest and discuss our ideas!

To kick things off I have a few ideas to improve some of the most lacking or awkward abilities:

Cute Charm: Rather than it only having chance to activate when the opponent contacts you, it would also have chance to activate when you contact the opponent.

Spoiler

Don't have much to explain, I think it makes sense. Cute Charm isn't considered a good ability by most given how specific its requirements are (has to be the opposite gender then it has to make contact with you, then it's a 30% chance to activate) so this would make it a little better I guess.

Honey Gather: If the Pokemon is holding Honey, when it enters battle a random stat will be raised OR Holding Honey restores HP by 1/8 each turn (like Poison Heal w/ Toxic Orb).

Spoiler

Considering Teddiursa and Combee are the only two with this ability, I think either of those changes would work fine as things are. The ability would still retain its effect of collecting Honey too (like Intimidate has both in-battle and out-of-battle effects).

Illuminate: Gives resistance to Dark and Ghost attacks (like Thick Fat does with Fire and Ice).

Spoiler

Illuminate is the same as Honey Gather in that it has no in-battle effect. I think this would be an interesting change (that also makes sense) given how Ghost resists are few and Knock Off is so popular.

Iron Fist: Buff the increase to 30% (or higher) rather than the pitiful 20%.

Spoiler

Realised this in a different thread the other day, but its effect is rather low when compared to Sheer Force, Tough Claws, Strong Jaw and Mega Launcher.

Rivalry: Opponents of the opposite gender no longer lower the power of your moves.

Spoiler

This ability is so specific and out of your control for it to work in your favour, and when it doesn't work it just straight up nerfs you for no good reason. The effect it provides is only 25% too, which isn't even that game breaking! So make it that the power remains the same against Pokemon of the opposite gender, but of course retains its 25% boost against the same gender. 25% isn't as good as some other abilities and yet the means to get the boost is way more specific than them to be considered reliable. This way the ability isn't so bad.

It would give Pyroar and Unfezant much needed boosts (and actually useful abilities) while other Pokemon like the Nidos would still prefer Life Orb + Sheer Force and Haxorus probably likes Mold Breaker Taunt/Earthquake more, since it's usually used to stall break/break defensive cores. Plus it only works against opposite genders, so it isn't a guaranteed, constant boost.

Run Away: Allows escape from Arena Trap, Magnet Pull, Shadow Tag, Mean Look, Spider Web (and any other forms of trapping).

Spoiler

Another ability that is useless in battles. This is an obvious way to buff it, and it probably wouldn't affect too much, as the Pokemon that get it are rather uncommon, but it would at least be useful for allowing Rapidash to not be trapped by Dugtrio (without the use of Shed Shell ofc) and things like that. Better than nothing like it is now!

How about everyone else? Any moves/abilities that you think need a buff or a nerf?

 

[DasManiac]

Parental Bond needs a nerf. The second move should be reduced to being 25% as powerful instead of 50%. As it stands the ability is just too powerful.

 

[Jersey Jimmy]

Bide needs a serious buff. Make the attacks taken do only 50% damage or so, but still return the full damage output upon attack.

 

[Steel_Justice]

Cut: Needs its base power upped to at least 70 or give it a high crit ratio or even priority. Anything to make it usable.

Parental Bond: The second attack can no longer trigger a move's secondary effect. M Kanga having a swords dance that deals high damage and a body slam that has 60 percent chance to paralyze is the real reason it's broken.

Synchronize: The chance of the overworld effect working is now 100%.

Rock Slide: Buff its base power to 90 so people can pick accuracy over power between this and stone edge.

Aerial Ace: Buff its base power to 80 so physical based flying types without brave bird can make good use of their flying STAB.

Arm Thrust: Buff its base power to 20 so it isn't completely outclassed by brick break.

Iron Fist: Buff the multiplier to 50% since most punch moves have low base power and there aren't many moves affected by this.

 

[GhostFingers]

I don't think this would change anything in practice, but Air Lock and Cloud Nine should not just cancel out effects of weather, but just erase weather altogether. It's just easier to see the select screen and if there is a weather icon, that means weather is on, but if no weather icon, weather is off. Just to make it easier to focus on what moves to use when taking all the circumstances into consideration (and considering circumstances is easier when you aren't given conflicting information).

Illuminate - I don't think i'd buff this, i would rather scrap it altogether, since all pokemon that can have it have other options available anyway.

Damp seriously needs a buff although i can't think of one. (Suggestions?)

Couldn't find any abilities to nerf. I'll look through the attacks another day.

 

[Zeb]

Illuminate - I don't think i'd buff this, i would rather scrap it altogether, since all pokemon that can have it have other options available anyway.

I don't agree. If it exists and they can assign it a useful trait, then they might as well do it. Ghost and Dark are good offensive typings this generation, thanks to the Steel nerf, so upgrading Illuminate to grant resistances to Dark and Ghost would make it an incredibly useful ability. And even if a Pokemon has other options, like Starmie, it doesn't mean the ability should be scrapped. It just gives them more options to work with, which in turn makes the Pokemon have more uses. And this is also ignoring the fact the ability could be buffed and given to future Pokemon that don't exist yet.

 

[Bolt Strike]

First of all they should revert the nerfs on Flamethrower/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam and Fire Blast/Thunder/Blizzard, there wasn't much reason for it in the first place. Beyond that, I would nerf King's Shield, it's ridiculously OP. +4 priority, protecting the user, halving the opponent's Attack, and triggering Aegislash's form change is a lot for one move. They should at least get rid of the Attack nerf, since an Attack nerf plus a defense oriented form change is overkill.

Illuminate - I don't think i'd buff this, i would rather scrap it altogether, since all pokemon that can have it have other options available anyway.

I don't agree. If it exists and they can assign it a useful trait, then they might as well do it. Ghost and Dark are good offensive typings this generation, thanks to the Steel nerf, so upgrading Illuminate to grant resistances to Dark and Ghost would make it an incredibly useful ability. And even if a Pokemon has other options, like Starmie, it doesn't mean the ability should be scrapped. It just gives them more options to work with, which in turn makes the Pokemon have more uses. And this is also ignoring the fact the ability could be buffed and given to future Pokemon that don't exist yet.

Starmie would love having a Ghost and Dark resistance anyway, that eliminates two of its weaknesses.

 

[~ Blazing White Yang]

Completely agreed on Run Away. I've felt that way for years. lol.

I think Aerial Ace could be buff into a standard, reliable STAB move for Physical Flying types. Brave Bird comes with recoil, Sky Attack and Sky Drop have a charge period, Drill Peck isn't a TM, and Acrobatics is only good for those who don't run a held item for some reason (or lose it mid battle.).

I'd say make it 75-80 BP at least.

 

[Winterdaze]

Ice Body: Have it work like Dry Skin, restoring HP in hail and giving an immunity to Ice that restores HP when Ice moves are used against you.

Leaf Guard: Gives a 30% chance to block status effects outside of sun, so as to not be completely useless without it.

Forewarn: Reduces the damage of the revealed move by 33% as long as the Forewarn Pokemon stays in play. Most of the time it only tells you something you already know, so now it does something.

Forecast: Boosts Sp Atk by 50% during weather, Castform sucks less now.

Protean: STAB boost is only 25% if not one of the Pokemon's original types.

Zen Mode: Activates automatically if the Pokemon is holding incense, and confers an immunity to flinching. Now Zen mode can be used off the bat, giving Darmanitan even more set diversity.

Keen Eye: Works like Compound Eyes now, giving an accuracy boost rather than preventing Accuracy loss.

Damp: Blocks all bomb moves, similar to Bulletproof only with Explosion protection rather than ball/bullet moves.

Teleport: Turn it into a pivoting move in trainer battles, like Baton Pass that doesn't pass stat boosts. Still not fantastic, but could have some niche use on certain Pokes.

Rock Slide: Buff its base power to 90 so people can pick accuracy over power between this and stone edge.

Iron Fist: Buff the multiplier to 50% since most punch moves have low base power and there aren't many moves affected by this.

No thanks, I'd rather Doubles not be more of a Rock Slide hell than it already is. If we need something buffed to be "reliable" rock STAB alternative to Stone Edge with about 80-90 base power and a wide distribution, it should be Smack Down.

As for Iron Fist, there is one very significant move affected by it called Drain Punch. A 50% boost to that would just be absurd, Zeb's recommendation of 30% would be more reasonable.

Aerial Ace being a good standard Flying-type move would be great tho.

 

[GhostFingers]

Mostly, i would like accuracy increased to lots of moves, some not mentioned here because that would take too long, but here are the main moves i would like to see with my suggested changes.

Ancient Power, Ominous Wind, Silver Wind: The chance of stats boost should raise from 10% to 20%

Ally Switch (a terrible move anyway): Should be allowed to switch with any ally, including from or to the middle position in triples, rather than just opposite sides.

Astonish, sonic boom: (not really a buff or nerf) should probably be counted as sound-based moves, taking into account the description of the moves.

Blaze kick: Maybe buff the power from 85 to 90, considering it has low distribution. (To match Leaf blade and Attack Order)

Charge beam: Raise accuracy from 90% to 100%, raise chance of Sp.At. boost from 70% to 80%

Cut: Raise accuracy from 95% to 100%, give increased crit-ratio, PP change from 30 to 25 (matching Karate chop and Poison tail)

Draco meteor, Overheat, Leaf Storm, Psycho boost: Increase accuracy from 90% to 95%
Hyper beam (+ variants): Increase accuracy from 90% to 95%

Egg bomb: Should have a chance to do some extra effect. (20% chance of lowering target's defence, for example)

Flame Wheel: increase chance of causing burn from 10% to 30%

Fury cutter: lower base power from 40 to 20 (like in Gen V)

Heat wave: hit all adjacent rather than just adjacent foes, increase accuracy from 90% to 100% (matching Sludge wave)

Jump kick and High jump kick: revert to gen IV mechanics

Spoiler

Jump kick: lower power from 100 to 85, accuracy remains 95%, PP raises from 10 to 25. High Jump Kick: lower power from 130 to 100, accuracy remains 90%, PP raises from 10 to 20. If attack misses user receives 1/2 damage that would have been dealt, rather than 1/2 max HP

Hydro pump: raise accuracy from 80% to 85% (to match fire blast)

Hypnosis: Raise accuracy from 60% to 70% (like in DP)

Inferno and Dynamic Punch: Raise power from 100 to 120 (to match Zap cannon)

Lovely Kiss, Sweet Kiss: raise accuracy from 75% to 85% (to match WoW)

Mega Kick: raise accuracy from 75% to 85%
Mega punch: Raise accuracy from 85% to 95%

Razor wind: Charge turn should be either semi-invulnerable, or have some other effect like a temporary boost to evasion that drops after the move is completed. (Like Stockpile's effects wear off after Swallow or Spit up is used.)

Rock climb: SHOULD BE ROCK-TYPE.

Spark: reduce power from 65 to 60 (makes Thunder fang more powerful by contrast).

Splash: SHOULD DO SOMETHING !?!? (maybe make it like Tackle used to be pre Gen V, BP35 acc95% PP35)

Strength: either increase power from 80 to 100 (and just get rid of Return/Frustration because that mechanic sucks) or add a chance to flinch (say 20%)

Torment: should apply on the turn used not the turn after.

 

[Stratelier]

Feint is a move designed to break through Protect. It used to have a power of 50 back when it was introduced (but it failed any time the target wasn't using Protect/etc.), but in Gen 5 they removed that restriction and lowered its power to 30, making it almost useless in singles. It needs to hit with double (or triple?) power if the target is currently using Protect/etc; then it'd be slightly comparable to Pursuit.

 

[winstein]

I agree that Iron Fist needs to be boosted to have a 30% power increase. This would be a good balance between having a limited range of moves to benefit and the high power of some of the current punching attacks.

I think Healer should at least also help the user, because helping teammates only seems too specific to be a lifesaver. After all, there's no reason the user can't benefit from their effects! This would at least make Mega Audino somewhat more useful in general.

All those Swift variations should be at 75 BP or 80 BP, mainly because at its original power, it doesn't threaten evasion users too much. The general concept is good, but it just needs to be powerful enough to make a difference.

Solar Beam should at least remove the charging turn when Sun is up before the users make their move, mainly because it is the hardest attack to use when there's always a chance the opponent change the weather to make up waste two turns for half the power.

I think that the Synthesis variations should have 10 PP. Yes, there is a chance it heals for more, but there is a much likelier chance it heals for less, so it shouldn't have so little PP. Maybe it could have 15 PP. Alternatively, the Recover variations could have 5 PP because their recover is just that reliable.

Both Trick-or-Treat and Forest's Curse should be a priority move, because that way you could surprise the opponent by making your teammates another type, thereby taking advantage of certain strategies that would benefit from a type change.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Jersey Jimmy]

Synchronoise: Does 70 base power to any Pokemon, but doubles if the opponent is the same type as the user. Kinda like Retaliate and Facade.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Parental Bond needs a nerf. The second move should be reduced to being 25% as powerful instead of 50%. As it stands the ability is just too powerful.

This so much. 25, 30, or even 33.

Another alternative, negating secondary effects. That would end once at all Fake Out/Power-up Punch abuse.

 

[kaiomann]

Both Trick-or-Treat and Forest's Curse should be a priority move, because that way you could surprise the opponent by making your teammates another type, thereby taking advantage of certain strategies that would benefit from a type change.

Thanks for reading.

I would love this.


But I only have one thing to say: Gale Wings. It should only be a chance to get priority. And something needs to be done against priority roost.

 

[Silverwynde]

Iron Fist: I'll admit my bias is showing with this one but it needs a boost bad. Bring it up to 30% and then I'll be quite happy.

Rock Smash: Can we please get this one raised to at least a base power of 50? I mean, even Tackle can outclass it and Brick Break leaves it in the dust! The move itself isn't awful but it's just so terribly weak that it borderlines on useless. Seriously, buff this thing and make it semi-useful please.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Rock Smash: Can we please get this one raised to at least a base power of 50? I mean, even Tackle can outclass it and Brick Break leaves it in the dust! The move itself isn't awful but it's just so terribly weak that it borderlines on useless. Seriously, buff this thing and make it semi-useful please.

Oh god yes, I forgot about this one. Yeah, especially since this one is typically a TM or HM, they need to make it at least somewhat useful to justify giving it to your Pokemon. 50 is about right for the BP.

 

[Stratelier]

Rock Smash: Can we please get this one raised to at least a base power of 50? I mean, even Tackle can outclass it and Brick Break leaves it in the dust! The move itself isn't awful but it's just so terribly weak that it borderlines on useless. Seriously, buff this thing and make it semi-useful please.

Even Power-Up Punch leaves it in the dust because its secondary effect kicks in 100%. THAT is something that could use a nerf.

 

[CynthiaLover]

I agree with all those who as Parental Bond should be nerfed. Quite heavily I might add. I have gained a hatred for that ability due to its overwhelming and virtually broken power. It needs to be downsized ASAP, otherwise the airways will be even more loaded with it.

Also, all Swift variants should get a power boost, especially, as others have stated, Aerial Ace. Brave Bird is risky while Sky Attack, Fly, and Sky Drop are two-turn moves. Buffing up Aerial Ace would give Flying-types a more reliable STAB move so they won't have to rely on recoil/two-turn moves that can backfire on them.

I think Stone Edge should gain an accuracy boost, as 80% accuracy plus 5 PP makes it somewhat risky to use. I'm fine with Rock Slide as it is, so that doesn't need to change, but Stone Edge needs more accuracy in order to improve its usefulness.

Speaking of Rock moves, Smack Down needs a boost. It's the only 100% accuracy Physical Rock move out there, so they should boost its power. Or at least allow it to do more damage to Pokemon it grounds via its effect. And maybe they should boost the PP of it, too, as most Rock moves have low PP.

They should also reverse the downgrade of Thunderbolt/Flamethrower/Ice Beam and Fire Blast/Blizzard/Thunder. Seriously, those are good moves (especially the former three), so why did they nerf them? Makes no sense to me.

Arm Thrust should gain a boost, as it's power is worthless, even for a multi-hit move, especially since it's one of the few multi-hit moves that has 100% accuracy. Back in BW, I quickly swapped it out for Rock Smash with my Pignite, making even Rock Smash look good compared to Arm Thrust.

Speaking of Rock Smash, it should get a boost of at least 10 BP, making it a more useful move. Especially since it keeps switching its status between TM and HM so often, so give it something to make it worth the move slot.

 

[Lord Kyuubi]

Either Rock Slide should be a little more powerful or Stone Edge should be a little more accurate, so that there is actually a good choice out of the two. Preferably both of these things should be done.

As others have said, Aerial Ace and similar should be stronger, around 75, probably. The 'never missing' concept doesn't really give much reason to use them when the majority of moves have 100% accuracy anyway, and it's certainly not a good reason for them to have lower power than the high-critical hit ratio moves.

Also as others have said, the nerf on Thunderbolt, Ice Beam and Flamethrower, as well as their more powerful relatives should probably be lifted. I don't really see why they did that - they may have been influential moves, but they weren't at all over powered.

Stealth Rock should do less damage, or at least not scale as violently with type effectiveness. It really does do far too much damage as it is at the moment.

I feel Will-O-Wisp could do with an accuracy boost. Or maybe it should just always hit when used by fire types, like Toxic does with poison types.

Not sure whether this would count as better or worse, but change Protect so that rather than having a 50% chance to work at all on the second turn running, reduce damage taken by 50%, then by 25% and 12.5%, and so on, until another move is used. That way it's more tactical, rather than click and hope, and also would differentiate it from Detect.

Toxic Spikes would be more usable if they didn't disappear just because a poison type switched in, but instead could only be removed like other entry hazards. It'd stop them from being the unquestionably worst of the lot, at least.

Charge Beam should be made weaker, more accurate, and with 100% chance of providing a boost, so it's a more exact equivalent of Power-Up Punch.

To be honest, the supposed ultimate moves the starters can learn, Frenzy Plant, Blast Burn and Hydro Cannon, are just terrible, as are any other moves like them. They need to lose the recharge turn, and either pick up some other flaw or lose a bit of power to compensate. Probably both, though I don't really see what you can do with these moves without changing them completely, but they really do need it.

I think Quick Feet should be indirectly buffed by introducing a Paralysis Orb, to go with the Flame and Toxic Orbs. Considering there's still the chance of immobility, I hardly think it's a safe or reliable strategy, but it should at least give Quick Feet some more utility to keep up with the monster that is Guts.

Keen Eye, rather than preventing your accuracy from being lowered, could just boost your accuracy in the first place.

Parental Bond needs a sharp drop, probably lowering the baby's damage to 25% at the very most. Maybe 20%. Or even less. I think secondary effects should remain, so that the ability has a distinct purpose tactically, rather than just being an insane power boost.

The starters' abilities, Overgrow, Blaze and Torrent honestly aren't that good. Maybe they should kick in when you've still got more health left. Or maybe I'm just tired of all starters having exactly the same ability since the dawn of time.